On Monsters, Magic items, and CR

[Prince Zahn]

So my party of players just had their first boss encounter: A very greedy Oni who was way out of their league. He kept them alive so that he could blackmail them into being his henchmen.

Now, I read that an Oni might team up with other baddies in exchange for cool magic items he could use.
Now what blows my mind and makes it dizzy at the same time is this - if a monster has magic items it can use in combat, would that justify a CR increase?

[Foxhound438]

depends on the cr and item, really. a hobgoblin with a magic weapon that casts hate would be plenty more powerful than a hob without, but a pit fiend with a +1 to its mace would be barely noticeable. Basically if the item is appropriate for the creature, it would maybe increase by 1.

[Inevitability]

Calculate how the item changes the monster's statistics. Re-calculate CR according to the guidelines in the DMG. If CR is now different, write down the new one and use it for calculating XP.

Note, however, that you should probably keep the original CR on hand in case the monster goes into a fight without magic doodads.

[Prince Zahn]

Calculate how the item changes the monster's statistics. Re-calculate CR according to the guidelines in the DMG. If CR is now different, write down the new one and use it for calculating XP.

Note, however, that you should probably keep the original CR on hand in case the monster goes into a fight without magic doodads.
That's actually a very good idea. Question, though. What should I do in a case of a Ring Of Mind Shielding, or similar item that helps a creature with an non-numeric abilities?

[MaxWilson]

That's actually a very good idea. Question, though. What should I do in a case of a Ring Of Mind Shielding, or similar item that helps a creature with an non-numeric abilities?

Sigh and shake your head at the narrow-minded simplicity of the 5E CR rules, and leave CR unchanged, per DMG rules.

The DMG assigns CR based purely on combat capabilities. Essentially CR is a measure of the 3/2 power of HP and DPR. It's near-meaningless but it is what it is.

[pwykersotz]

Sigh and shake your head at the narrow-minded simplicity of the 5E CR rules, and leave CR unchanged, per DMG rules.

The DMG assigns CR based purely on combat capabilities. Essentially CR is a measure of the 3/2 power of HP and DPR. It's near-meaningless but it is what it is.

Gonna disagree slightly here. Ring of mind shielding gives three abilities. Invisibility, immunity to thought detection, and the post death telepathy. That last one is RP only, but invisibility has an adjustment, and if the immunity to thought detection is relevant, I would advocate that it might use the same calculations as any immunity. GM determines relevance, of course.

[Prince Zahn]

Gonna disagree slightly here. Ring of mind shielding gives three abilities. Invisibility, immunity to thought detection, and the post death telepathy. That last one is RP only, but invisibility has an adjustment, and if the immunity to thought detection is relevant, I would advocate that it might use the same calculations as any immunity. GM determines relevance, of course.

Because there's a paladin in the party, and the oni's brilliance is in disguising himself, The immunity to thought and Alignment detection is key. It occurred to me that oni already get at-will invisibility, but the other two features are more important for being more frightening and less predictable :3

But I agree with you that these abilities shouldn't be glossed over carelessly, I'm crossing fingers you guys may know better than me, though.:smallsmile: