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Bhu
2016-01-31, 03:08 AM
I have an on again off again idea for my own system based off d20 that I work on, and it's time to discuss again. We'll start with Base Attack Bonus:

BAB does not scale with Level (though there will be rare opportunities to raise it via class).

BAB is either +0 (anything currently having Wizard BAB), +1 (anything currently having Cleric BAB), or +2 (anything currently having fighter bab). There will no longer be Feats like Improved Trip, Improved Grapple etc (or they will give new options instead of what they do now). Instead, all Opposed Combat Checks take a -1 (-2?) Penalty for every point your opponents BAB is higher than yours. If his BAB is at least 2 points higher than yours, you also provoke an AoO.

Unlike currently, BAB will be a bonus to attack, damage, and Initiative rolls.

Certain Feats/class powers may require BAB of a certain Level. For example if there is an Improved Grapple it may require a BAB of +2 or higher.


How does this sound to everyone?

gtwucla
2016-01-31, 04:07 AM
I think that could work, especially if you are going for a toned down character advancement, but if you are to do that you need to get rid of or curtail everything that scales with character advancement, especially stuff that has to do with spells since those increase in power by nature (spell/caster levels).

Bhu
2016-01-31, 08:50 PM
I will be. Effectively every class will have a limited set of powers (for example 3 spells at first level and 1 spell each additional level). Every so many levels you may upgrade a power. For example at 1st Level you cast Magic Missile as a first Level spell, but at, say, 5th level you cast it as a third level spell. So perhaps you have 20 spells at 20th level as a wizard, but you've got 20 maneuvers as a fighter as well.

Bhu
2016-02-01, 03:05 AM
Round 2:

Attack rolls are still 1d20 plus appropriate stat plus BAB plus miscellaneous modifiers. No bonuses of the same kind stack now, you take the highest one. I'm considering capping non epic bonuses/penalties at +4/-4. Bonuses will likely be less common.

AC is still 10 plus appropriate stat plus bonuses, and will not range as high as it does now to make up for lower BAB.

Fort Ref and Will Saves will now be defenses (10 plus appropriate stat modifier plus class bonus).

Weapon/armor proficiencies work more like the way ill be doing skills (which I'll get to later). You will get a number of weapons/shield/armor proficiencies depending on your BAB (for examples sake lets say its 3 for BAB +0, 5 for BAB +1, and 8 for BAB+2. Weapons you dont have the appropriate skill with are -1 to hit (-2?) and do not add BAB. Armors/Shields you have no skill with have their bonus lowered by -1. If you are skilled with them you subtract your BAB from teh armor check penalty. You will get a few points per level to invest in armor/weapons which will give you new options that used to be feats/skill tricks.

Skills will work similarly. You'll get a skill Bonus of +0/+1/+2, and choose a number of skills much the same as you did with weapons above (but in this case maybe 5/8/10?). Skills will not have ranks, a skill check is d20 plus appropriate stat modifier plus Skill Bonus. If it isnt one of your chosen skills the check is -1 and you don't add skill bonus. Some skills will still require training to use as will exotic weapons. The skill list will likely be more condensed. Every level you will get x points to improve skills, which will work like some feats or skill tricks used to.

Bhu
2016-02-03, 05:31 PM
I'm also considering making your minimum roll increase via level. Example:

Your attack roll is 1d20+BAB (+2)+Str (+4) or 1d20+6. Normally this gives you a 7-26.

Lets say the minimum you can roll on the d20 roll is equal to your Level divided by 4, and your Level is 12. Now it's 10-26. Not saying it'll be level divided by 4, just using as an example.


Example of potential class (not by any means set in stone):

The Fighter: You are a mercenary, or a soldier, or a martial artist of some kind. You contribute to the party by being a skilled physical combatant who does damage primarily through martial skill. At higher levels you may get some magical enhancements or have been taught a few skills to help you keep up but you're mostly a mundane warrior in the beginning.
Alignment Unrestricted (Alignment will mostly be less a restrictor of your behavior, and more of a proclamation of which of the Powers That Be you have aligned yourself with).
Base Attack Bonus +2
Base Defense Bonus +1
Base Skill Bonus +0
Key Ability Choose any one to receive a +2 permanent bonus. This will also be the stat your class abilities come from. Str based Fighters are Brutes who rely on physical power. Dex based fighters rely on agility and quickness. Con based Fighters are tough guys who are defensive tanks. Int based Fighters are tacticians and military leaders. Wisdom based Fighters are generally ranged combatants. Cha based fighters rely on misdirection and intimidation.
Beginning Weapon/Armor Proficiencies Choose any 8 plus one every 5 Levels
Beginning Defenses Choose any 2
Beginning Skill Proficiencies Choose any 5 plus one every 5 Levels


Class Advancement
Hit Points: 5 plus (Con Modifier) plus (Defense Bonus) times Level, with an additional 5 hp at 1st Level.

Journeyman (Levels 1-10): Gain 2 Feats at 1st Level, plus one each additional Level. Feats can upgrade a Class Ability, Skill/Weapon/Armor Proficiency, or give you a new option entirely. Give a permanent +2 Bonus to any Ability Score at Levels 4 and 8 (maximum score is 18 plus or minus Racial Modifiers). Upgrade BAB, BDB or BSB by +1 at Level 6 (max is +4). These will tend to be basic class abilities, and depending on what you choose, you get a sort of PrC at Veteran Levels.

Veteran (Levels 11-20): Gain 2 Feats at 11th Level, plus one each additional Level. Give a permanent +2 Bonus to any Ability Score at Levels 12, 16 and 20. Upgrade BAB, BDB or BSB by +1 at Levels 12 and 18.

Epic (Levels 21-30): Gain 2 Feats at 21st Level, plus one each additional Level. Give a permanent +2 Bonus to any Ability Score at Levels 24 and 28 (maximum score is now 22 plus or minus racial modifiers). Upgrade BAB, BDB or BSB by +1 at Levels 24 and 30 (max bonus is now +6). Think of Epic Levels as Epic PrC's.

Bhu
2016-02-08, 04:50 PM
Potential skills list:

Arcana Knowledge Arcana, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Blowing Stuff Up: Demolitions, magical or otherwise
Bull________: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information
Camping: Climb, Knowledge Nature, Navigation, Survival, Swim, Use Rope
Captain: Water Vehicles
Craft:
Doctor: Heal Checks on Humanoids
Drive: Land Vehicles
Flight: personal flight
Gymnastics: Balance, Escape Artist, Jump, Tumble
Impersonation: Disguise, Forgery
Knowledge:
Perception: Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot
Perform:
Pilot: Air or Space Vehicles
Profession: now includes appraise
Psionics: Knowledge Psionics, Psicraft, Use Psionic Device
Ride: Animals
Sneakiness: Hide, Move Silently
Thousand Yard Stare Intimidation
Tinkering: Disable Device, Open Lock, Techno Magic stuff like repairing warforged or building steampunk mecha
Translator Decipher Script, Speak Language
True Grit: Autohypnosis, Concentration
Veterinarian: Handle Animal, Heal checks on Animals

Bhu
2016-02-08, 04:53 PM
Potential Class List: (wip)

Asskicker (Fighter, Knight, Swashbuckler, Warblade, Samurai, Marshall) You kill people for money, either because it's the only skill you have or you really get off on it.
Berserker (aka Barbarian) You has anger management issues.
Blind Fanatic (aka Paladin, Crusader, Sohei) You believe in one specific truth enough to be willing to murder the whole world if it's necessary.
Catspaw (aka Dragon Shaman, Warlock) You've cut a deal with something and agreed to serve it in exchange for power. And maybe a pet critter.
Crook (aka Rogue, Ninja, Scout) You're a criminal or work for the gummint (which is just another kind of criminal).
Environmentalist (aka Druid, Ranger) You talk to trees and animals, and thanks to your magic they talk back (and are kind enough not to mention your lack of social skills).
Liar (aka Beguiler) Everyone lies. You lie well enough reality sometimes plays along.
Librarian: (aka Archivist) You might look prim and harmless, but you know everyone's secrets.
Mad Scientist
Magic Asskicker (aka Duskblade, Hexblade, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife) You've either learned a bit of magic or come by it due to a family curse and decided "Why shouldn't I use this to whoop ass and make money?"
Magic Crook (aka Spellthief, Lurk, Psychic Rogue) Unlike most crooks you start with some minor magical powers (as opposed to hurriedly learning them of necessity).
Martial Artist (aka Monk, Swordsage) You might not be a crazy old man living on a mountain yet, but your destiny points in that direction strongly.
Necromancer (aka Dread Necro) You ask the dead for advice. They're surprisingly chatty. Not to mention wise being that they're now immortal.
Priest (aka Cleric, Shugenja) You lead people in worship of some Gawd or other. Everyone loves you to your face while making jokes about you being a pervert behind your back. One of these days you'll lose it and ask said Gawd to whoop some ass.
Psychic (aka Binder) You allow yourself to be possessed for a fee, or for your religion, or because you have some serious issues.
Shaman (aka Spirit Shaman). You keep telling people you can see the spirits. They might believe you if you'd stop eating shrooms and peyote.
Societal Outcast (sorcerer, wilder, Dragonfire Adept) One or your parents had an interspecies fetish polite society frowns on.
Street Performer (Bard, Jester) You're an attention whore who refuses to make an honest living.
Wrassler

MoleMage
2016-02-08, 05:10 PM
Can I system-jack your core mechanic on BAB and maybe on skill progression for use in a Metroid d20 system? At some nebulous point in the future when I get around to actually working on that homebrew system instead of one of the other half-dozen currently on my metaphorical drawing board (this is the only one on my literal drawing board, but the literal board is in storage right now).

Bhu
2016-02-09, 05:53 PM
Sure! All my homebrew stuff is ogl.

Some odd ideas I'm just gonna toss out to see what people like/hate the most:

Idea 1: Only BAB and ability modifiers add to attack rolls. Other bonuses to attack rolls add to the minimum roll, not the maximum. In short: Lets say you have a +1 from BAB, and a +1 from Str. You roll 1d20+2 to hit, and need to exceed their defenses. Now lets say you have a total of +8 in bonuses from various other sources. Your minimum roll is 11 (1+8+2), so no matter what you actually roll, 11 is the minimum result.

Idea 2: Defenses are not static, and all attacks are opposed checks. Both of you roll 1d20 plus mods and the higher result wins.

Idea3: Immunity will now be more along the lines of "Does not affect you unless your opponent is X HD higher than you."

Idea 4: Instead of a d20 plus modifiers, roll 3d6 plus modifiers, which also determine your damage. You take either the low, medium or high die as your damage rolls (if you roll doubles the dice stack as you have a critical). Class powers can change die type or amount.

Idea 5: Instead of CR, base XP upon how messed up the party is by encounter. For every per day/per encounter ability or one use/charged magic item they had to use they gain _ xp. For every party kill, or member reduced below a certain percentage of hit points they gain _xp.

Idea 6: Players may automatically reroll dice if they roll below x, where x is determined by level or class abilities.

MoleMage
2016-02-11, 12:30 PM
Sure! All my homebrew stuff is ogl.

Some odd ideas I'm just gonna toss out to see what people like/hate the most:

Idea 1: Only BAB and ability modifiers add to attack rolls. Other bonuses to attack rolls add to the minimum roll, not the maximum. In short: Lets say you have a +1 from BAB, and a +1 from Str. You roll 1d20+2 to hit, and need to exceed their defenses. Now lets say you have a total of +8 in bonuses from various other sources. Your minimum roll is 11 (1+8+2), so no matter what you actually roll, 11 is the minimum result.

Idea 2: Defenses are not static, and all attacks are opposed checks. Both of you roll 1d20 plus mods and the higher result wins.

Idea3: Immunity will now be more along the lines of "Does not affect you unless your opponent is X HD higher than you."

Idea 4: Instead of a d20 plus modifiers, roll 3d6 plus modifiers, which also determine your damage. You take either the low, medium or high die as your damage rolls (if you roll doubles the dice stack as you have a critical). Class powers can change die type or amount.

Idea 5: Instead of CR, base XP upon how messed up the party is by encounter. For every per day/per encounter ability or one use/charged magic item they had to use they gain _ xp. For every party kill, or member reduced below a certain percentage of hit points they gain _xp.

Idea 6: Players may automatically reroll dice if they roll below x, where x is determined by level or class abilities.

Idea 1: If you do this, you'll find that AC becomes much more highly valued. If you can't exceed attackers' minimum values you're going to die very quickly.

Idea 2: I like it, I've used opposed check defense before. It also works well in dice pool systems like Shadowrun and WoD.

Idea 3: This is good. Immunity shouldn't allow you to ignore bosses anyway. I might make it so that temporary immunity effects either A: have a much higher level than the individual producing them or B: ignore the level bypass rule entirely.

Idea 4: Is the low, medium, or high chosen based on your class features? Like wizards use the low die, fighters use the high? If so, it's an interesting mechanic. Doesn't leave as much room for weapon versatility though.

Idea 5: This will reward "inefficient" or even "bad" play. Basically, you're incentivizing players to win by the narrowest margin they can. They don't want to deal the finishing blow to the big bad, he hasn't done enough damage to the barbarian yet. We haven't blown all our spell slots yet. Hold off while we throw a bunch of per day buffs out that aren't going to progress the fight but are going to give us a bunch of experience. I mean, it can work but I don't think table play is the right place for Fire Emblem healer-grinding.

Idea 6: Limit the number of rerolls per check. So maybe the first time you get below X on an attack roll, you can reroll that attack roll. Unlimited use will skew too heavily in favor of anyone with this class (it's a better version of idea 1 with unlimited use).


Are you planning to include a critical fail mechanic? Ideas 1 and 6 are more-or-less incompatible with such.

Bhu
2016-02-12, 08:52 PM
Idea 4: Is the low, medium, or high chosen based on your class features? Like wizards use the low die, fighters use the high? If so, it's an interesting mechanic. Doesn't leave as much room for weapon versatility though.

Idea 5: This will reward "inefficient" or even "bad" play. Basically, you're incentivizing players to win by the narrowest margin they can. They don't want to deal the finishing blow to the big bad, he hasn't done enough damage to the barbarian yet. We haven't blown all our spell slots yet. Hold off while we throw a bunch of per day buffs out that aren't going to progress the fight but are going to give us a bunch of experience. I mean, it can work but I don't think table play is the right place for Fire Emblem healer-grinding.


Are you planning to include a critical fail mechanic? Ideas 1 and 6 are more-or-less incompatible with such.

It'll be based on BAB more likely, and alterable by Feats

There will be a grinding penalty :D

No Critical Fumble except as maybe a negative stats condition.

Bhu
2016-02-18, 03:14 AM
THE POWERS THAT BE

The Gawds will be llike the Greek Gods: narcisisstic, vain, greedy, amoral sqabbling bastards who screw up peoples lives. Your alignment will be less a reflection of your behavior than it is which of these goobers you have aligned yourself with. You may believe/promote in their cause but that doesnt erase the possibility you're a hypocrite.

Lawful Good: You think the best way to further the cause of Good is to give the mortals a guiding hand by establishing and firmly following rules, because quite frankly they're too damn stupid to know right from wrong without you telling them.

Lawful Evil: You champion the cause of leglaism and rules. You want Good to establish a system in order to spread corruption via exploiting that system.

Chaotic Good: You think the best way to further the cause of Good is to give the mortals free will, because after enough mistakes bite them in the ass they'll realize what the right thing to do is all by themselves,

Chaotic Evil: If there's no society or rules or structure you feel Good will founder, so you spread anarchy in the hopes it will lead to an Evil Utopia.

Neutral Good: You believe you can further the cause of Good by doing the right thing, helping those in need, and quit interfering with their lives.

Neutral Evil: You believe that the cause of Evil will fail without you, so furthering your own goals also furthers Evil.

Lawful Neutral: Law is all, it is the only reason for existence. Without structure there is no reason for existence, if existence continues at all. In short without knowing that everything is in it's place you piss yourself in fear. LN Gawds are pretty OCD.

Chaotic Neutral: Rules of any sort are an attempt to impede your personal liberty. Morality and immorality are excuses to justify behavior that needs no justification.

Neutral: You don't want involved, you don't want involved, you don't want involved. You've been burned before, and now it's look out for number one.

_______: Screw Good and Evil and all that noise. You hate the Gods and hate the mortals and hate the Devils too, and oppose them all in turn. You're a vicious troll who exists only to ruin everyones day, and the entire known universe hates you, and you it.

Bhu
2016-02-19, 02:24 AM
Potential Race List (as a side note so I don't have to make a map for this setting I'm using the real world map).

Elves: Absolute racist bastards who hate everything not as pale and pretty as they are. Similar to nazis, they've gone on a blitzkrieg across europe.

Gnomes: Mad scientists who have fled Europe for North America to escape enslavement and persecution by the Elves (the Gnomes are the Elves main target).

Dwarves: Brawling drunkards, who are split between Europe and North America. Some stayed behind because they like beating up Elves. Known for their hair trigger tempers, finely made beards, and their tendency to call anyone who mentions either a racist before whacking him with their combat stein.

Halflings: Short, pastoral farming folk who are the pinnacle of innocence, when they aren't seducing your wife, robbing you blind or smoking pipe weed. They've also fled to the new world to avoid (deserved) persecution. Surprisingly capable bare knuckle brawlers.

Humans: Chased from Africa, they promptly escaped to europe and asia to be enslaved by the local rulers. Asia has finally let them be, but they had to fight their way out of Elven Europe to escape to the Americas.

Orcs: Natives of Russia, the Elves have never been quite able to displace them. Possibly Europe's last hope.

Kobolds: The lords of Asia, descended from the mighty Dragons. Also paranoid as hell.

Goblinoids: South American immigrants who (say it with us now) fled Elven persecution. In fact much of Europe's Fey are now in southern america.

Gnolls: Rulers of Africa, known for witchcraft and some truly evil shenanigans.

Giants: The rulers of Britain. Mostly because no one wants to go to the effort of tossing them out.

Automatons: Robots created by the Gnomes.

Locathah: Raiders who control most of the Pacific. They have a hands off policy on most Kobolds as tehy have no wish to fight Dragons.

Merfolk: Rulers of the Atlantic. Well, under the Atlantic anyway. Known for being very capricious and quite dangerous.

Minotaurs Rulers of Greece and large chunks of the Mediterranean, where they live a life devoted to hedonism.

Jaanavar: Deeply religious animal folk who are the rulers of India.

Ixitxachitl: South American coastal problem children.

Crabmen: Coastal raiders who plague what would be the California coastline.

Sobek: Egyptian crocodile men.

Random Monsters: Pretty much control everything else as far as anyone knows.

Steampunkette
2016-02-19, 02:33 AM
... you do realize that by portraying Gnomes as Jews you're reinforcing all the big nosed and beady eyed propaganda that has been put out by white supremacists, nazis, and anti-semites, right..?

And you've made Africans into literally evil hyena-monster witch-doctors... And Latino people into Goblins.

The setting is shaping up to be INCREDIBLY racist.

Bhu
2016-02-19, 05:32 PM
... you do realize that by portraying Gnomes as Jews you're reinforcing all the big nosed and beady eyed propaganda that has been put out by white supremacists, nazis, and anti-semites, right..?

And you've made Africans into literally evil hyena-monster witch-doctors... And Latino people into Goblins.

The setting is shaping up to be INCREDIBLY racist.

No it is not, though i can see how you infer that from my post. I am using a real world map specifically as a location, not a racial reference point. Goblins and fairies may live in South America, but they are not Latino nor will their culture, cuisine or outlook on life reflect Latinos. Because I placed Orcs in Russia does not mean they will be cossacks or communists, I'm not a fool.

Gnome culture will be the typical Tinker Gnomes from 2E with a little bit of Girl Genius thrown in. The elves don't hate them because they're short, they hate them because they believe SCIENCE! is an affront to the Gawds and an abandonment of tradition (i.e. magic). They will not have Jewish names or in any way resemble the Jewish culture.

I did not make Africans into evil hyena monsters, if you actually read the post humans fled Africa to ESCAPE evil hyena monsters who have always and forever been portrayed as evil hyena monsters in the game. Gnolls have always been devil worshipers, and since I'm changing most everything else I left them as is.

Though I guess this does point out that people are incapable of assuming racial overtones if I use a real world map, so I may as well have someone draw a new one...


Out of all the races there will only be four "mostly evil" races.

The Elves are murdering racist bastards, because that's what their Gods are, and in this setting Gods are typically pretty in your face. They don't have a choice about being racist. Some of them embrace it if their religious enough, many of them don't, but can't speak out if they want to stay alive. Because much like the old Greek myths, if you oppose, denounce or otherwise badmouth the Gods in this setting, they show up pissed off.

The Gnolls and Ixitxachitl worship Fiends as opposed to Gods, and are therefore compelled by their masters to be Evil. While the majority of their populace has been corrupted that doesn't mean they all are.

And then there are the Halflings who have a corrupt society based on "if you can take it, it's yours".

There will be no race with cultural or other resemblances to real world peoples, and reference to where they are will be limited to geographical location, and that may change on a whim if anything seems upsetting to people. Racism is mentioned in the setting to not so kindly poke at the fact that with the abundance of racial enemies in D&D, the game itself has been kind of racist and still is. If it's going to cause hurt feelings I can always choose to poke fun at it's other misgivings. :smallwink:

JNAProductions
2016-02-19, 05:36 PM
Yeah, by using real world-analogues, you're drawing racial matters into this. It really seems kinda racist. If you're not looking to do that (and I would hope you aren't) divorce it further from the real world.

Bhu
2016-02-19, 06:51 PM
Yeah, by using real world-analogues, you're drawing racial matters into this. It really seems kinda racist. If you're not looking to do that (and I would hope you aren't) divorce it further from the real world.

New map it is then...

Anyone know some map generators>

Steampunkette
2016-02-19, 08:28 PM
http://donjon.bin.sh/world/

Bhu
2016-02-19, 10:15 PM
http://donjon.bin.sh/world/

holy crap...

any advice for using this thing? :smalleek:

Steampunkette
2016-02-19, 11:02 PM
Okay with the numbers until you get the ratio of land to water to ice you want, then keep hitting the "Create" button until you get something you kind of like.

Save it to your hard drive and draw on borders, write in names, and enjoy!

Dienekes
2016-02-20, 02:33 PM
... you do realize that by portraying Gnomes as Jews you're reinforcing all the big nosed and beady eyed propaganda that has been put out by white supremacists, nazis, and anti-semites, right..?

And you've made Africans into literally evil hyena-monster witch-doctors... And Latino people into Goblins.

The setting is shaping up to be INCREDIBLY racist.

As a Jewish person all I got out of it was "huh they're basing gnomes off of the Jewish struggle. Neat."

Bhu
2016-02-21, 05:24 PM
Regarding the Mad Scientist Class: Wat featres would you like to see? Besides the usual lab assistant, minions, monsters and doomsday devices.

Bhu
2016-02-25, 02:36 AM
Weird thought for Spell Resistance: What if it comes in grades of -x (i.e. -1, -2 etc). If you have -1 Spell Resistance that means spells cast upon you are -1 to caster level. Sound doable?