Manifester Ammunition is over powered?

[SangoProduction]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#manifesterWeapon

Using ammunition rules, you can make 50 pieces of ammunition which all have that effect for the same price...or just 1 for 1/50 the price of the enchantment if you want.

So, for 16,000 gold, you can have 250 power points each day (equivalent to a level 17 psion), or 320 gp for 5 power points. Sure, you have to pay those power points in 5 point chunks. Sure you have a nearly infinite amount of points anyway, but why not just extend that "nearly infinite" to "functionally infinite".

[LTwerewolf]

It works, but is very much in the "wear a helmet" area of char op if used at a table.

[The Glyphstone]

Not to mention you're never allowed to spend more than 5 PP on a power. Good at level 5, but the earliest you'd able to afford a Manifesting weapon would typically be level 8. You're already behind the save DC/damage curve by then, limited to 3rd level powers, and it only gets worse. So it's both super-cheesy and not terribly useful.

[SangoProduction]

btw, in your signature, you say "aloud" rather than "allowed"

[SangoProduction]

Not to mention you're never allowed to spend more than 5 PP on a power. Good at level 5, but the earliest you'd able to afford a Manifesting weapon would typically be level 8. You're already behind the save DC/damage curve by then, limited to 3rd level powers, and it only gets worse. So it's both super-cheesy and not terribly useful.

You can also just spend buy 1 of the ammunition at level 2 and nearly double your available power points. But yes. I agree it's super-cheesy.

[eggynack]

Not to mention you're never allowed to spend more than 5 PP on a power. Good at level 5, but the earliest you'd able to afford a Manifesting weapon would typically be level 8. You're already behind the save DC/damage curve by then, limited to 3rd level powers, and it only gets worse. So it's both super-cheesy and not terribly useful.
Doesn't seem quite as good as it looked at first, but 50 extra power uses of third level or less seems very useful to me. Like a bazillion pearls of power. You just generally avoid that kinda direct interaction power in favor of more utility stuff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Not to mention you're never allowed to spend more than 5 PP on a power. Good at level 5, but the earliest you'd able to afford a Manifesting weapon would typically be level 8. You're already behind the save DC/damage curve by then, limited to 3rd level powers, and it only gets worse. So it's both super-cheesy and not terribly useful.There are lots of low level powers that you'll want up all the time, such as touchsight. Spending 5 pp every 10 minutes at level 10 will drain you dry PDQ. A fistful of manifester arrows is cheap and will allow you to keep the power up whenever you suspect you'll need it.

[LTwerewolf]

btw, in your signature, you say "aloud" rather than "allowed"

You understand that's a direct copied quote, yes?

[Ozimandius]

This is just a quibble really but those enchantments all require +1 weapon - so it would be an additional 2000.

Obviously this is against rules as intended and there are already things in place to prevent some enhancements being used on ammunition - no sane DM would allow this and I question whether the source book doesn't mention anything about melee weapons only or some such, obviously it should.

Edit: Oh here we go, at the beginning of the entry on psionic weapons that you linked to

Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonus applies to either type of attack.

Ammunition is not an option for any of the psionic weapon abilities.

[The Glyphstone]

This is just a quibble really but those enchantments all require +1 weapon - so it would be an additional 2000.

Obviously this is against rules as intended and there are already things in place to prevent some enhancements being used on ammunition - no sane DM would allow this and I question whether the source book doesn't mention anything about melee weapons only or some such, obviously it should.

Edit: Oh here we go, at the beginning of the entry on psionic weapons that you linked to


Ammunition is not an option for any of the psionic weapon abilities.

That's because the Psionic Weapon rules are an extension of, and reference, the Magic Weapon rules. In the Common Ranged Weapons chart under Magic Weapons, you'll find ammunition as the first 1-4 options; as far as magic items go, they are considered a ranged weapon. Since that chart is also used to generate random psionic ranged weapons, it's valid for any psionic Ranged Weapon ability, such as Manifester.

[Ozimandius]

That's because the Psionic Weapon rules are an extension of, and reference, the Magic Weapon rules. In the Common Ranged Weapons chart under Magic Weapons, you'll find ammunition as the first 1-4 options; as far as magic items go, they are considered a ranged weapon. Since that chart is also used to generate random psionic ranged weapons, it's valid for any psionic Ranged Weapon ability, such as Manifester.
Fair enough, was just hopeful that perhaps someone thought about the ammunition angle on this.

The 2k addition for the +1 bonus prereq would still apply, presumably. Though 40 gold extra per 5 pp isn't going to slow down this cheese-wagon for certain.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Swinging for the fences on brokenness; is there any rule preventing you from using PP from the manifester ammo to recharge a cognizance crystal?

[LTwerewolf]

Going as far as what's written, no. Manifester enchant specifies it has to be used on a power. You could however use the power whose name I have forgotten to bestow power points to a psicrystal or another person who can then charge a cognizance crystal. One step removed, but kind of works. Also: ha, it may have taken 3 years but I got you back. :smallamused:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could however use the power whose name I have forgotten to bestow power pointsThere it is; I found it!

[LTwerewolf]

It was a joke, I don't generally use the word bestow. No way anyone here could really know that, so probably should have pointed it out with italics.

[SangoProduction]

It was a joke, I don't generally use the word bestow. No way anyone here could really know that, so probably should have pointed it out with italics.

Is there a feat that increases the efficiency of that augmentation (or any in general I guess).

[LTwerewolf]

Torq of power preservation (item) , midnight augmentation, earth power (and earth sense).


Feats: Midnight Augmentation, Linked Power, Metapower, Psicrystal Containment
Powers: Bestow Power, a first level power (Here I use Synchronicity)
Method:
1. Focus yourself and your Psicrystal
2. You choose Synchronicity to be effected by Midnight Augmentation, investing one essentia
3. Expend your Psychic Focus to manifest a Synchronicity (which you have chosen to permanently join Linked Power to by Metapower)
4. Expend your Psicrystal's Psychic Focus to manifest Synchronicity, linked to Bestow Power (Costs reduced by Midnight Augmentation for -1, and Metapower for -2, reducing the cost of the Synchronicity/Bestow Power combo to 1 PP)
5. Refocus yourself and your Psicrystal (Doable in one round, if you choose Synchronicity as your 1st level power)
6. Repeat 3-6

OR

You need:
1) Torc of Power Preservation (the more expensive one in the Expanded Psionic Handbook - NOT the cheaper one in the Magic Item Compendium)
2) Earth Power (and its requirement, Earth Sense).
3) Bestow Power
4) At least one remaining power point (you could use Body Fuel, but that's a bad idea)
5) Natural stone to stand on

Method:
1) Psionically Focus Yourself (requirement for use of Earth Power)
2) Stand on the natural stone (requirement for use of Earth Power)
3) Manifest Bestow Power on yourself, augmenting it once yields roughly the same result.
4) Repeat until full of power points.

What happens? Well, Bestow Power costs 3 points to manifest, and bestows two on the target (you). Earth Power reduces the cost by 1. The Torc of Power Preservation reduces the cost by 1. So you bestow yourself 2 power points at the cost of 1 power point.

The change here is that you're bestowing to another person (still netting the same amount, but to them instead).
credit ninjineko