Mythic Monsters vs Nonmythic PCs

[Thealtruistorc]

Hello there all.

So I'm working on an adventure and I found a monster that would be downright perfect for the role. The problem is that said monster has mythic ranks, and I don't want to have to go through the hassle of converting my players and their characters over to that system.

How would fights against mythic monsters play out for non-mythic PCs? Would they be much harder? Should the CR be adjusted in some way? I really do want to use some of these beasties but I want your thoughts on the balance of them.

[Milo v3]

It will probably be fine, but I'd stay away from using mythic monsters with a decent amount of mythic spells, since they sometimes are much more powerful against non-mythics.

[Starbuck_II]

Hello there all.

So I'm working on an adventure and I found a monster that would be downright perfect for the role. The problem is that said monster has mythic ranks, and I don't want to have to go through the hassle of converting my players and their characters over to that system.

How would fights against mythic monsters play out for non-mythic PCs? Would they be much harder? Should the CR be adjusted in some way? I really do want to use some of these beasties but I want your thoughts on the balance of them.

It should be fine. Remember CR is already adjust for adding ML (+1 CR for ever 2 ML).
Can you give an example of who?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-monsters/mythic-owlbear
It is CR 5 because while it should be CR 4, its 2 ML (Mythic Level, though it refers to Mythic Rank officially) Adds +1 CR, this 5.

[Thealtruistorc]

It should be fine. Remember CR is already adjust for adding ML (+1 CR for ever 2 ML).
Can you give an example of who?


The one I am talking about is the Mythic Jotund Troll. It has quite a few mythic abilities and the ones it does have seem downright nasty.

[Serafina]

Well, you should ask yourself "can my players beat this" then.
First, it's of course already based off a CR 15 monster. And then it a bunch of new abilities, bringing it to CR 18.

So, what do these abilities do?
Well, just from being Mythic Rank 7 it has 4 new feats, and mythic feats at that. Note that those aren't included in the listed abilities. It also gains three +2 to abilities, also not included for the Mythic Jotun Troll. This mostly just makes the monster thougher - if in doubt, just put it on Constitution for more HP and saves. The feats can be substantial game-changers though, so be careful what you pick.
It also gains more natural armor. +7 armor class will make it substantially harder to hit.
Then there's the 56 HP it gets.
Oh, and don't forget about the damage reduction - it'll get DR 10/epic.
Then it gets Mythic Surge. This means that it'll be able to add 1D10 to any D20 roll seven times per day. This can really negate a lot of save-based spells, or just make sure that attacks land.

It'll do 5 Bleed damage with it's bite. That's really just a bit more extra damage and not that big of a deal.
Block Attacks is pretty nasty however, basically it will have a good chance (just using its +20 to attack) to negate one attack per turn.
50% chance to negate critical hits or sneak attack is of course nasty, especially if you have crit-fishers or sneak attackers in your group.
Ferocity means it'll keep fighting when below 0 HP.
Immunity to Acid and Cold means it can no longer have its regeneration bypassed by acid - that only leaves fire. Your players may need preparation.

Primal Vigor is the real game-changer.
Well, at a level where they can encounter it they should be able to enough damage to out-damage both DR 10/epic and a regeneration of 25 HP per round. If they hit it with fire, it'll only be 12 HP per round too. Really, at level 15 that's something that can be overcome, but with around 270 HP it'll likely take a while to bring it down.
Oh, and if you do give it Mythic Toughness - well, it's able to fight while below 0 HP, will have its regeneration, DR 20/epic and its regeneration.


Note that despite all its power and Mythicness, the Mythic Jotund Troll still has no effective means of engaging fliers (rock-throwing won't cut it). So if your players can do so in any way, staying out of range with archery and spells can completely outmaneuver it, and potentially kill it.

[137beth]

There are a handful mythic abilities that basically boil down to "if you opponent is non-mythic, you just win (if they are not mythic, this ability is really weak or has no effect)".
Don't use those abilities on your non-mythic PCs (and if you do eventually make your PCs mythic, every encounter they face should include either only mythic monsters, or a mix of mythic and non-mythic monsters; otherwise they will steamroll encounters.)

Otherwise, using mythic monsters against non-mythic PCs is fine. Be warned, however, that the CR Paizo has given to mythic monsters is almost always wrong.