NPC craft skills?

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all

So I am one of those people that stats NPCs. Mostly, its a set of templates (Male commoner, female commoner for people who dont work, or do seasonal work, then a set of expert templates for things like farmers, blacksmiths, fishermen, etc, a mix or expert and warrior for sheriffs and small town militia, warriors for town guards, and full blown PC classes for my Inquisition (think Dragon Age rather than Spanish)). That way, I have a general idea how well any random PC will do against my party at early levels with regards to bluff, haggling, etc.

But I had a couple of questions. I know of the Core craft and profession skills, but what others are there? Take a black smith for example, a small town blacksmith would probably have a few ranks in weapon smithing, be fully stated out for bowmaking, maybe have a couple of ranks in armorcraft, but he would be most good at making tools and utensils. What craft would that fall under, as core just says "various". (He would probably also have a few points in sense motive and appraise, and of course profession blacksmith (read merchant) which is likely what I would use to determine his skill at haggling).

Similarly, what does net making fall under. And for that matter, with professions, is there a book with prof merchant in it, or would I have to come up with that myself?

Please, dont tell me not to stat up NPCs. I like doing it. This isnt actually about if its useful, its about the world being alive both in front, and behind, the screen.

[Troacctid]

Most items can be crafted via multiple different skills. Usually the main two are its category and its material. For example, a sword could be crafted with Craft (Weaponsmithing) or Craft (Metalworking), and leather armor could be crafted with Craft (Armorsmithing) or Craft (Leatherworking). You can also get more specific and use something like Craft (Swordsmithing).

[Albions_Angel]

Well leatherworking makes more sense for a small town blacksmith than armorsmithing, and appropriately limits him to leather armor, but what about metal working. Metal working again makes more sense, and would allow him to produce hoes and ploughs and such, but at what point is it "worse" than swordsmithing?

[Bullet06320]

http://arcana.wikidot.com/list-of-medieval-european-professions
this might help

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/28798/Experts-v35?it=1
although you can get it cheaper on amazon

a blacksmith would stick mostly to metalworking, possibly including weapons and armors
where as a leatherwork would stick to leather items possibly including being a cobbler as well

[Albions_Angel]

Thanks for the links.

My world is set in roughly the viking era. So the villages were very small and basic. A "blacksmith" would handle most tool and equipment crafting (such as leather aprons and such) simply because there wouldnt be enough people to have a blacksmith, a tanner, a cooper, a cobbler, a fletcher, etc. But thanks for the suggestion.

[Fouredged Sword]

I like to stat skilled labor as Expert 1 / commoner X. This shows the broad base of knowledge gained from an apprenticeship.

Skills 6+int for 1st level, 2+int for all remaining levels.

Diplomacy - 4 ranks - knows how to negotiate
Sense Motive - 4 ranks - knows how to not get scammed
Profession (smith) - max ranks - This is what he does for a living
Profession (farrier) - 1 rank - He has shoed a few horses though
Handle animal - 1 rank - without getting kicked
Craft (metalsmith) - max ranks - He is focused on a craft skill
Craft (leatherworking) - 4 ranks - But he knows his way around a complementary material
Craft (woodworking) - 2 ranks - and enough to turn a tool handle other needed component without help.

If he is human or has an int over 10, he likely fills in extra skills and maybe branches out into a few more craft skills to be more independent (craft (ceramics) or Craft (structural) are good options for an isolated town)

[Albions_Angel]

Thanks. I may do something similar, but Im rather fond of the way I plan to do things. The way I see things, an apprentice trains in a particular area from roughly the same age as an adventurer starts, and trains just as hard at his chosen profession. He will advance from having no class levels (not even commoner) to being an expert. The difference is that most people in my world are between level 3 and 5 experts, rising to 7 warriors, and then members of the inquisition go as high as 10 or so, with specific people being as high as 15. The PCs thus represent sightly above average people, rather than demigods, for the vast majority of their career.

If I did it your way, i would feel obliged to give my pcs 5 or so levels of commoner, to represent their pre-adventurer upbringing.

I have also modified NPC crafting, to make it a viable alternative for several levels to just buying stuff. There is a chance for an NPC crafter to produce a masterwork weapon or armor piece based on the profession level of the crafter. I wont write it down, its not intended to be seen by pcs, but its basically a percentage chance to get a lower than standard weapon, normal weapon or MW weapon, and those percentages change (rather simply) by ranks in profession. It encourages my PCs to actually engage in the economy, and shop around, until they are of a level where spells do it better for them than a level 5 blacksmith.

[Albions_Angel]

Ive had some time to think, and wanted some DM advice.

Nested craft skills should allow the same products but at different DCs.

For example, by RAW, Craft (weaponsmithing) gives a DC of 12 for simple, and 15 for martial weapons.

Lets take a first example of a village blacksmith, who is proficient in Metalworking. To my mind, he should be capable of making a sword, but the DC should increase. At the moment I am thinking DC 14 for simple, DC 17 for Martial. THats a +2 on the DC. Thoughts? Should it be +5?

Conversely, a guy who devoted his life to making the perfect sword, craft (swordsmithing) should find swords easier. I was thinking DC 13 for swords, or -2 on the DC for martial weapons. Should that be -5?

THoughts?

[Fouredged Sword]

Eh, as a DM my suggestion is KISS. All the checks are under 20. That means that pretty much anyone within the 4-6 level range is going to hit the DC taking 10 without optimization. That means that it doesn't matter. All you are doing is slightly adjusting the time, but those rules are so coarse that the minor adjustment of +-5 DC isn't going to change much.

level 4
7 ranks, +2 for masterwork tools, +1 int bonus, take 10.

[Troacctid]

Ive had some time to think, and wanted some DM advice.

Nested craft skills should allow the same products but at different DCs.

For example, by RAW, Craft (weaponsmithing) gives a DC of 12 for simple, and 15 for martial weapons.

Lets take a first example of a village blacksmith, who is proficient in Metalworking. To my mind, he should be capable of making a sword, but the DC should increase. At the moment I am thinking DC 14 for simple, DC 17 for Martial. THats a +2 on the DC. Thoughts? Should it be +5?

Conversely, a guy who devoted his life to making the perfect sword, craft (swordsmithing) should find swords easier. I was thinking DC 13 for swords, or -2 on the DC for martial weapons. Should that be -5?

THoughts?

According to the Craft skill description, crafting a "typical" item requires DC 10. The advantage of a more specific craft would be that an item that would otherwise be atypical becomes typical instead. Craft (Cooking) might put a soufflé as a high-quality or complex item, whereas Craft (Soufflé) would have it as typical or high-quality, with only the most elaborate soufflés being considered complex.

[Florian]

Ive had some time to think, and wanted some DM advice.

Nested craft skills should allow the same products but at different DCs.

For example, by RAW, Craft (weaponsmithing) gives a DC of 12 for simple, and 15 for martial weapons.

Lets take a first example of a village blacksmith, who is proficient in Metalworking. To my mind, he should be capable of making a sword, but the DC should increase. At the moment I am thinking DC 14 for simple, DC 17 for Martial. THats a +2 on the DC. Thoughts? Should it be +5?

Conversely, a guy who devoted his life to making the perfect sword, craft (swordsmithing) should find swords easier. I was thinking DC 13 for swords, or -2 on the DC for martial weapons. Should that be -5?

THoughts?

I think you´re overthinking it beyond the point that is feasible with the given rules.
First, separate Profession and Craft and consider the skill synergies there.
Second, take feats into account to more adequately represent specialization.

So Craft is a more specialized subset of Profession and goes into the real details, but you still get a synergy bonus if both are at Rank 5 (Meaning Profession: Smith 5 gives a +2 to Craft: Weaponsmith 5 and so on). If you want to specialize more, take a Skill Focus (Craft:Weaponsmith).

Now check the Progress by Day calculations and also look into Masterwork DC change.
Every journeyman can make a sword, that no biggie, only a trend craftsman can do it good _and_ fast.
So, no, don´t change the DC without looking up the modifiers first.