Preparing for a PC vs. Vampires showdown

[Toilet Cobra]

My players recently tangled with a group of vampires, and the battle ended in sort of stalemate. It was actually a neat scene- the five vampires were a former Pathfinder squad who had met a grisly end, and the fight took place in their lodge. The PC's (who are not Pathfinders themselves) were up against a powerful and coordinated foe, but managed to outwit and outfight them.

However, since the Vampires escaped, and another battle with them is inevitable, we have sort of a "who can out-prepare their enemies before nightfall" situation. I come to the Playground to ask for advice on the vampire's preparations. They are only low-level characters (think lv 5-6) who acquired a vampire template. Is there any way for them to overcome traditional vampire weaknesses? They can't reliably make the DC 25 Will saves to approach a holy symbol. And the PCs are already stocked up on garlic.

Are there spells or items that would help? I know about protective penumbra but it probably won't be a daytime fight; are there other spells for overcoming those weaknesses? Tactics wise... I was thinking maybe summoned animals could scatter garlic and try to steal holy symbols?

I'm at a bit of a loss planning this encounter. I don't want to undermine my players, but I also don't want to have an underwhelming fight where these vamps are ringed in by garlic and slaughtered. I'm just hoping to reasonably level the playing field, as these npc's are smart enough to know what the players will be bringing to the fight. Any advice is appreciated!

[Azoth]

Do you allow third party material?

[Toilet Cobra]

Do you allow third party material?

Totally, though on a case-by-case basis.

[Leewei]

Were any of them casters? Summoning burrowing creatures would allow these vampires to makes escape routes, in case any of them were forced into gaseous form. This would also allow them to make an area safe from sunlight.

Undead don't need to breathe, so fighting in a flooded chamber could work for them. Use bat swarms on anyone trying to catch a breath. Create a number of weak undead, such as vampire spawn, to foil turning attempts. If the water is suitably filthy, holy water probably won't work well in it. (Notify players of any game effect it will have.)

While PCs are engaged in fighting the swarm and the spawn, have an invisible sneaky vampire attempt to pick pockets to remove spell component pouches, holy symbols, or anything else that might help the PCs. Once the vampires join the fight, have their fighter attempt to sunder these items, as well as silver/magic weapons. Any caster vampires should be dispelling PCs aggressively to make sure they cannot breathe or walk on water, and to drop any magic circles or protection from (alignment) spells. Also, have them open up with putrefy food and drink spells to spoil garlic and holy water.

[Geddy2112]

Call a bunch of bat and rat swarms-have them attack the garlic, and be a general headache for the PC's(swarms don't take melee damage).

And fight dirty-vampires can dominate their enemies, climb up walls, and fly as gas or bats. Have the vampires get some upward range on the PC's and engage them with crossbows.

Enough fire burns garlic...and PC's

[Toilet Cobra]

Were any of them casters? Summoning burrowing creatures would allow these vampires to makes escape routes, in case any of them were forced into gaseous form. This would also allow them to make an area safe from sunlight.

They actually have a Geokineticist so making shelter/moving earth won't be a problem. In fact the vampires only escaped because he collapsed a stone tunnel between them and the PC's.


Undead don't need to breathe, so fighting in a flooded chamber could work for them. Use bat swarms on anyone trying to catch a breath. Create a number of weak undead, such as vampire spawn, to foil turning attempts. If the water is suitably filthy, holy water probably won't work well in it. (Notify players of any game effect it will have.)

LOVE. Will consider ways to lure the players into such an area.


Any caster vampires should be dispelling PCs aggressively to make sure they cannot breathe or walk on water, and to drop any magic circles or protection from (alignment) spells. Also, have them open up with putrefy food and drink spells to spoil garlic and holy water.

I really like that putrefy spell! Unfortunately they don't have a witch or access to witch spells. Kind of shocking that it's not on the cleric spell list. It's a shame that they didn't have a wand of dispel magic prepared, it would take up a lot of castings to chew through the PC's buffs.

[Toilet Cobra]

Call a bunch of bat and rat swarms-have them attack the garlic, and be a general headache for the PC's(swarms don't take melee damage).

And fight dirty-vampires can dominate their enemies, climb up walls, and fly as gas or bats. Have the vampires get some upward range on the PC's and engage them with crossbows.

Enough fire burns garlic...and PC's

More summoned minions will definitely be happening next time. The first fight, they summoned wolves... which was a huge mistake. Swarms definitely next go 'round.

The PCs are unfortunately very optimized (for their level) to resist dominate, though I suppose the vamps could find a way to try it over and over. Burning them out is a viable option, though; the PCs just so happen to be staying at their favorite Inn, so it's not like it would be hard to track them. I guess it all comes down to where this fight actually happens.

[Geddy2112]

More summoned minions will definitely be happening next time. The first fight, they summoned wolves... which was a huge mistake. Swarms definitely next go 'round.

The PCs are unfortunately very optimized (for their level) to resist dominate, though I suppose the vamps could find a way to try it over and over. Burning them out is a viable option, though; the PCs just so happen to be staying at their favorite Inn, so it's not like it would be hard to track them. I guess it all comes down to where this fight actually happens.

I would go with the bats-they fly and inflict bleed, as well as being totally immune to weapons where rats take half. Domination is a DC22, and even if they are rocking +15 will saves against domination, that is still a fail on 1-6 on the die, or 30%. Throw mass dominate at the weakest mental target(I would be shocked if they all have a +15) or enough times, and they should fail by maths.

Also, attack them in their sleep-gaseous forms are pretty hard to hear. I mean, if they really are dirty bloodsuckers of the night. With decent charisma and convincing/dominating somebody to let them in the door, its showtime. And with fire comes smoke-something the vampires don't need to worry about but PC's do.

[Toilet Cobra]

I would go with the bats-they fly and inflict bleed, as well as being totally immune to weapons where rats take half. Domination is a DC22, and even if they are rocking +15 will saves against domination, that is still a fail on 1-6 on the die, or 30%. Throw mass dominate at the weakest mental target(I would be shocked if they all have a +15) or enough times, and they should fail by maths.

Also, attack them in their sleep-gaseous forms are pretty hard to hear. I mean, if they really are dirty bloodsuckers of the night. With decent charisma and convincing/dominating somebody to let them in the door, its showtime. And with fire comes smoke-something the vampires don't need to worry about but PC's do.

Excellent suggestions. And you make a good point about the Dominate. I guess without their sheets in front of me I was overestimating the PC's saves, but they're definitely not that good. They make liberal use of Protection from Evil but the party Warpriest only has so many spell slots.

[Leewei]

Another approach to fighting heavily-buffed PCs is to run out the clock. Try to lure PCs into a cul de sac, then have the geokineticist cave in the entry so they have to waste precious time digging out.

[Arbane]

The PCs are unfortunately very optimized (for their level) to resist dominate, though I suppose the vamps could find a way to try it over and over. Burning them out is a viable option, though; the PCs just so happen to be staying at their favorite Inn, so it's not like it would be hard to track them. I guess it all comes down to where this fight actually happens.

Oh, an inn? In a town? Full of weak-willed peasants?

It's not the PCs they should be using Dominate on. A human waves of innocent victims ought to do a number on the PCs' resources and morale. And then set the building on fire.

[Toilet Cobra]

This is why I love the Playground. Thanks for all the ideas everybody! I started out worried that the players would waltz right through this encounter, now I'm wondering how they can possibly prevail.

Can't wait for the next session!

[FocusWolf413]

It's waaay easier than you think.
They're at their favorite inn? Dominate or charm the inn's cook. If they get food from him (they probably will), then have him poison it. Taxine (3.5) is great for that. For every exposure, it adds +2 to the save and 1d2 to the secondary damage. If they eat, by the time they start to to take damage, they'll have ingested about 5-10 doses. 5-10 DC 23 saves, all at 2d6+(5-10)d2, is just brutal. It's also the easiest and most effective way to take them out. No collateral, it all gets pinned on the cook, and the party is full of corpses.

[Azoth]

I suggest Dreamscarred Press' Lords of the Night for this. Even just using its version of the vampire template can make for a much different fight than the PCs planned for.The template in that book allows for picking one of a multitude of weaknesses instead being hosed by everything. So it won't make all the prep your players have done go up in smoke. It can change the ballgame when the method they think is best to contain the entire group only works on one or two of them and the others are unaffected and can act normally.