"Your mother was an adventurer!" *gasps*

[Temperjoke]

Here's a question that's been on my mind. How do commoner NPCs view adventurers? I mean, whenever they come into town, large sections are burned, they've attempted to seduce and copulate with almost everything, living and nonliving, in sight, drink all the alcohol they can find, etc.

On the other hand, they're typically wealthy, ready to fling more money around in a night of partying than most people would see in their lifetime, they're buying supplies, gear, paying for information, etc.

How do your commoners see adventurers?

[Ralanr]

An interesting tidbit I read about masculinity said that cowboys back in the wild west were considered half a man due to not contributing to society as much as say a mayor.

Where am I going with this? Adventurers are vagabonds that don't really contribute to society. If you have a problem that usually needs a violent solution, then they are perfect (I'm surprised they aren't hired in the criminal underworld more) but otherwise they don't offer much. So commoners might view them as a waste of space.

However.

Adventurers can also lead to lucrative business for a village. Potions and supplies need to be bought after all. So adventurers with cash are probably well liked. As long as they have money.

But.

People could also like adventurers for the stories they tell. And adventurers do become famous for a reason.

Considering how every commoner can represent a single person, there is an infinite amount of ways they can view them.

The most common viewpoint is probably that adventurers are insane.

[eastmabl]

A commoner would probably view an adventurer in the same way that I view career soldiers.

I respect what they do even if I sometimes question their continued commitment to their profession... but boy am I sure that they fight/fought so I don't have to.

Because of that last sentence, I tend to give 501(c)(3)s which help returning vets, as well as homeless vets (I work near a VA medical center).

[Ninja_Prawn]

I think the NPC Marl (http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Marl's_Loss) in Baldur's Gate is a good benchmark. He scapegoats adventurers, blames them for everything wrong in his life - and he has some legitimate complaints - but ultimately he understands that it's an important trade in a world filled with evil monsters.

[Mr.Moron]

I don't think I've had two games where they're viewed the same. The way adventurers relate to commoners is very dependant on the setting and even tone of particular campaign.If we're talking about the default FR-type setting with an open ended tone?

I'd image fear would be the overriding reaction. Past 5th level or so, adventurers can destroy you and everything you care about an instant with little you or the local authorities can do to retaliate. It doesn't matter if most of them are decent folks it only takes one hair-trigger murder hobo to scour your village off the face of the map.

You stay out of sight.
You speak when spoken to.
You agree to any requests made immediately.
You don't insist on payment for anything and charge only when asked.
You pray to whatever god you think protects you that they just go away.

[Corran]

As big moving pounches filled with gold. There was one particular comic page of the OotS, when the party made a stop at some remote city to restock in supplies. Commoners informed one another that adventurers were approaching, and they all started changing the prices, like multiplaying everything by 100. After that they put their big smiles on and waited for this one in a lifetime opportunity.

Edit: Found it
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0122.html

[Hyena]

Majority of posts here are talking about murderhobos. Again. There's a clear difference between an adventurer and a murderhobo. The latter is basically a very popular and funny meme, that keeps circulating on giantitp because it's fun to talk about. Murderhobos do not, in fact, compose the majority of adventuring parties.

[Mr.Moron]

Majority of posts here are talking about murderhobos. Again. There's a clear difference between an adventurer and a murderhobo. The latter is basically a very popular and funny meme, that keeps circulating on giantitp because it's fun to talk about. Murderhobos do not, in fact, compose the majority of adventuring parties.

They don't need to be majority. What percentage of guys that can incinerate in you a second, or take on squads of the city guard need to have a hair trigger before you starting being very, very careful around those guys.

A band of adventurers roll up to town and you don't know who they are or what they want. In the best case they're nice folks who share stories, spend a few gold and leave you no worse for wear than you came. In the worst case scenario you and everything you know wind up as smudges left on the ground. You're not going to go into things assuming the best case.

[mephnick]

I don't allow evil adventurers, so I'd say most people are friendly.

It's kind of like Witchers. There's a few people who think they're weird, inferior or dangerous, but the common folk are pretty happy to meet a group that can slay the manticore hunting them.

[Clistenes]

An interesting tidbit I read about masculinity said that cowboys back in the wild west were considered half a man due to not contributing to society as much as say a mayor.

That reminds me of the issue of the "herbivore men" in Japan.

Most western magazines and newspaper claim that those men aren't interested in sex because they like video game and anime more... I have done some research, and it turns that westerners have it completely wrong. "Herbivore men" aren't called that way because they aren uninterested in sex, but because they are uninterested in marrying and supporting a family.

The concept of masculinity is very different in Japan. Men used to be expected to find a lifetime job right after finishing college, they would ditch their usual clothes and wear a suit, white shirt and necktie, marry a girl that they met in college or who worked in the same company or through a matchmaker, the girl would stop working and become a housewife, have one or two kids, and the man would work long hours, give all the money he earned to his wife (who would be the one managing it), he would barely ever see his family (they go to sleep before he arrives home) and would have barely any sex.
If he had a job good enough, he would have an expensive car he could never drive (he would have to go to his job by train, because there is too much traffic in japanese cities and cars go really slow), he would sometimes go to expensive restaurants with his boss and coworkers (even if they were sick of each other and didn't want to spend more time together) and would often spend his weekends playing golf with his boss (even if neither of them really wanted it). Some men would seek sex away from home and visit brothels and soaplands.

That's what a man is supposed to do and to be.

However, Japanese Economic Crisis came, and everything changed. Many young men couldn't find a stable job, only temporary or part time jobs, so they had to stay at home with their parents. They would use the same clothes as they did in college because they weren't required to change them in their crap jobs. They had free time and would spend it with their families or in cheap hobbies (because they didn't have much money) like games and anime and comics. And they wouldn't marry because they weren't rich enough to keep a family.

Those men weren't uninterested in sex, it were women who weren't interested in jobless, penniless men. Of course there were many women in exactly the same situation (more than men, as a matter of fact), but those women expected to do what adult japanese women were supposed to do: To find a man with a respectable job.

These people lived in a social limbo, no longer students, but not really adults.

And even if they were just adapting to the situation, japanese media lashed against them. Why weren't they behaving like real men, finding good jobs, marrying, having kids, working all day and giving all their money for their wives to manage? That's what men are supposed to do!

Of course, there simply weren't enough jobs for everybody, but they were a social aberration, and they were treated like freaks.

So yes, I can see how a culture could lash against men and women who refuse to buy a farm, marry and raise an army of kids, watching them as abnormal and a social aberration...Specially if they DO have the money to buy a farm, like most adventurers do.

[krugaan]

They don't need to be majority. What percentage of guys that can incinerate in you a second, or take on squads of the city guard need to have a hair trigger before you starting being very, very careful around those guys.

A band of adventurers roll up to town and you don't know who they are or what they want. In the best case they're nice folks who share stories, spend a few gold and leave you no worse for wear than you came. In the worst case scenario you and everything you know wind up as smudges left on the ground. You're not going to go into things assuming the best case.

Also, even if adventurers are nice, they can bring trouble with them. Adventurers, even if they are good people and only murderhobo worthy targets, tend to make enemies... and the people in the town can be collateral damage in a BBEG retaliatory strike.

The commonfolk just don't want no trouble, but trouble is literally what adventurers deal in.

[Corran]

Also, even if adventurers are nice, they can bring trouble with them. Adventurers, even if they are good people and only murderhobo worthy targets, tend to make enemies... and the people in the town can be collateral damage in a BBEG retaliatory strike.

The commonfolk just don't want no trouble, but trouble is literally what adventurers deal in.
Not all commoners have that insight as to how campaigns work. Besides, there are tons of adventurers, how to know if the adventurers you are currently talking to are the ones the campaign revolves around?

[krugaan]

Not all commoners have that insight as to how campaigns work. Besides, there are tons of adventurers, how to know if the adventurers you are currently talking to are the ones the campaign revolves around?

Adventurers, universally, are associated with trouble. They either seek it out, it seeks them out, or both. It doesn't matter (or shouldn't matter, more rightly) whether any particular group of adventurers are the ones in the center.

Indeed... most commoners probably don't even know they're just sources of information / loot.

[BootStrapTommy]

Here's a question that's been on my mind. How do commoner NPCs view adventurers? I mean, whenever they come into town, large sections are burned, they've attempted to seduce and copulate with almost everything, living and nonliving, in sight, drink all the alcohol they can find, etc.

On the other hand, they're typically wealthy, ready to fling more money around in a night of partying than most people would see in their lifetime, they're buying supplies, gear, paying for information, etc. So adventurers are celebrities?

[mgshamster]

Depends on the size of the community. Large metropolis? They get treated the same as anyone else who dresses the part. If they dress nice, they're treated nicely by the establishment. If they don't, they're treated like street scum. Conversely, people on the streets may be genuinely kinder to those who aren't dressed like they're better than you. If they're dressed like Knights, they get treated the same as the local knighthood.

In a small town, they're likely to be wary of any stranger that comes in, "adventurer" or not, until shown otherwise. Prejudices may alter that in one way or another.

I'm just taking about the everyday person here, though, not specific people like those in charge or someone working in a temple.

Think about it this way: if you were to see someone or a group of someones walk in to the area where you live all decked out in weaponry (guns) and/or protective armor (bullet proof vests) how would you feel? If you live in a place where that's normal, it may not even phase you. I've lived in places where that's absolutely normal and I've lived in places where people would call the local authorities as soon as they spotted you.

[mephnick]

Also, even if adventurers are nice, they can bring trouble with them. Adventurers, even if they are good people and only murderhobo worthy targets, tend to make enemies... and the people in the town can be collateral damage in a BBEG retaliatory strike.

I guess my good, kind players did just get ambushed by a revenant they've had latch on to them destroying a bunch of stuff in a small town..

I retract my statement, people should be wary.

[JackPhoenix]

In a world without global communications and media, how adventurers would be treated will depends on the community's experience with their kind. A bunch of armed strangers would rouse suspicions, but they often brings news and tales from far away lands. They could be seen as minor celebrities. If they killed a rampaging dragons, they would be heroes. If the neighboring villagers spread tales of adventurers who beat half the village unconscious in drunken brawl and set the inn on fire, they would be viewed as troublemakers. If they can take care of the dangerous orc tribe local baron ignores, they may be seen as valuable asset. If they defeated a tyrant king who bled the village dry with taxes, they may be viewed as liberators. And if they are a bunch of murderhobos, they would be politely (or less politely, if the villagers feels confident enough) asked to go away.

Also, different classes of people would react differently... what's a source of hope for opressed peasants can be a dangerous threat to status quo to their king.

[oxybe]

Not just any bulletproof vests, but glowing bulletproof vests that are somehow harder to hit correctly and guns that shoot bullets that are made of fire and his vintage pair of Air Jordans can somehow actually make him fly.

We'll also add in a talking dog, because why not: it's D&D.

[Madbox]

Seems to me like most adventurers would be treated like mercenaries. I mean, that's basically what they are. Sure, they have hearts and might do something charitable, and sure, they occasionally go off fighting random things for their own private reasons instead of because they are getting paid to, but I'm sure there are cases of real life mercenaries doing that sort of stuff too. I can't think of anything else to call a group of warriors who are not part of an army or militia, who can be hired out to do dangerous jobs.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Don't forget the rule that Specific Beats General; NPC commoners' attitudes towards adventurers in general might be less important than their attitude toward an adventurer (or group of adventurers) that they know well, or at least know by reputation, for good or ill. If there's a typical attitude of mistrust towards "those trouble-making adventurers" in a campaign, but the PCs have a reputation as upstanding citizens in the local community, their reputation with the locals will be more important when they're in that area. But they'll have to earn the people's trust all over again when they go traveling....

[krugaan]

I guess my good, kind players did just get ambushed by a revenant they've had latch on to them destroying a bunch of stuff in a small town..

I retract my statement, people should be wary.

Pretty much.

I mean, that's like bad guy 101... The good guys can't protect *everyone*.

[LordVonDerp]

I'd image fear would be the overriding reaction. Past 5th level or so, adventurers can destroy you and everything you care about an instant with little you or the local authorities can do to retaliate.



Sounds like they need better local authorities.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

An interesting tidbit I read about masculinity said that cowboys back in the wild west were considered half a man due to not contributing to society as much as say a mayor.

Where am I going with this? Adventurers are vagabonds that don't really contribute to society. If you have a problem that usually needs a violent solution, then they are perfect (I'm surprised they aren't hired in the criminal underworld more) but otherwise they don't offer much. So commoners might view them as a waste of space.

However.

Adventurers can also lead to lucrative business for a village. Potions and supplies need to be bought after all. So adventurers with cash are probably well liked. As long as they have money.

But.

People could also like adventurers for the stories they tell. And adventurers do become famous for a reason.

Considering how every commoner can represent a single person, there is an infinite amount of ways they can view them.

The most common viewpoint is probably that adventurers are insane.


If you are talking about the American Cowboys... They didn't really exist. Yeah there was ranchers but the whole cowboy thing was made up by Hollywood really really really well.

Gun control laws were very strict in cities, you either have up your guns when you entered or the sheriff would comes for you. Very few gun fights ever took place. The ok corral or whatever it's called from the movie Tombstone was one such gun fight that lasted 30 seconds.

It is a pretty interesting read that will show how Hollywood blurred the lines between reality and romanticism so deeply that people still believe it today.

However this is pretty much what I would think I commoners could view adventurers as. This romantic notion of freedom, power, love, and destruction. Yeah adventurers are scary, but they are the only thing keeping the demons at bay (even if there are no demons to actually keep at bay).

People wouldn't have a lot of knowledge on the facts, they just get the hyped up stories from bards with no way to fact check. These bards make money telling stories, so if course they need to make it good.

If people had a way to fact check Hollywood (including radio shows) back in the day we probabaly wouldn't have such widespread romanticized misinformation on cowboys.

[mgshamster]

However this is pretty much what I would think I commoners could view adventurers as. This romantic notion of freedom, power, love, and destruction. Yeah adventurers are scary, but they are the only thing keeping the demons at bay (even if there are no demons to actually keep at bay).

I like this. It's a good line of thought. Perceptions of adventurers (we really need a better name for that) would be biased towards whatever the most popular bards think. Younger folk may romanticize them, while older folk may distrust them depending on past experience.

[georgie_leech]

I like this. It's a good line of thought. Perceptions of adventurers (we really need a better name for that) would be biased towards whatever the most popular bards think. Younger folk may romanticize them, while older folk may distrust them depending on past experience.

Honestly it's a fairly apt descriptor, if a broad one. The common element between the Good Guys Saving the World, the shrewd freelance mercenaries, the Little Bad Evil Guys, even the murderhobos, is that they end up on adventures of some sort. Sure, maybe the murderhobos running away from the guards and the consequences of their actions may not be all that heroic, but a quick perspective flip and boom, now you're the heroes trying to bring them to justice. Both the good guys and bad guys are part of the adventure.

And it certainly beats Fable's so-called Heroes :smalltongue:

[Clistenes]

Also, even if adventurers are nice, they can bring trouble with them. Adventurers, even if they are good people and only murderhobo worthy targets, tend to make enemies... and the people in the town can be collateral damage in a BBEG retaliatory strike.

The commonfolk just don't want no trouble, but trouble is literally what adventurers deal in.


Not all commoners have that insight as to how campaigns work. Besides, there are tons of adventurers, how to know if the adventurers you are currently talking to are the ones the campaign revolves around?


Adventurers, universally, are associated with trouble. They either seek it out, it seeks them out, or both. It doesn't matter (or shouldn't matter, more rightly) whether any particular group of adventurers are the ones in the center.

Indeed... most commoners probably don't even know they're just sources of information / loot.

Mmmm... another point to take into account... Can people recognize adventurers for what they are? The Ranger is a hunter, the Fighter, a soldier, the Paladin, a knight, the Bard, a musician, the Wizard, a scholar, the Cleric, a priest... All those are respectable occupations, community leaders, in some cases... Why would anybody think that those are troublemakers?

Yes, it would be weird to see them travelling together, but people used to travel in groups to protect each other, many people would just believe that the scholar, the musician and the priest joined the warriors for protection.

So, unless that particular group is already infamous, or adventuring parties are commonplace in that world and people has learnt to recognized them on sight, people shouldn't know that they are a PC party.

[Slipperychicken]

They're good for the local economy because they're travelers with deep pockets. They kill off any monsters you point them at, put some gold and cheap loot into the market, and they usually kill some monsters on the way to town too. They usually don't cause too much collateral damage (emphasis on "usually" there).

So I think they'd be generally well-received unless that specific group got a reputation for causing trouble.

[CNagy]

We try to stack the first impression deck in our favor as a group of adventurers. I think I've played in a half a dozen campaigns now where our party buys a wagon, fills it with supplies and goods, and then masquerades as a merchant with his guards and paid passengers travelling out to wherever the action may be. Villagers may be wary of a group of heavily armed men riding towards their town on horseback, but the prospect of doing trade, hearing news, and maybe catching a ride to wherever the merchant is headed next makes for quite the friendly reception. If we're headed to the village for a specific reason (we heard orcs were conducting raids, monsters were ravaging fields, etc), we'd tailor our broad assortment of goods to help with whatever the crisis was; medicine for the wounded, foodstuffs, what-have-you.

But then, in most of the games I play, the idea of one's job being "adventurer" is kind of odd--like being a professional wanderer. Everyone has something that they do, or at least say that they do, during the 90% of life that is relatively mundane. The adventure is (or is at least presented to others as) a temporary deviation from normal life. The Fighter is also a weapon smith, or he instructs town militias, or he is a private swordsmanship tutor. The Rogue is also a jeweler, or craftsman, or merchant. The Wizard also tutors fledgling mages or children with potential; teaching some useful cantrip or magical-related knowledge. Everybody has a gig that they can use to provide their lifestyle expenses--not that they necessarily need to or ever engage in that profession. The point is to not be an alien; being able to say "I'm a mason by trade" puts people at ease as opposed to "I charge into monster dens, kill everything that moves, take everything not nailed down, and then retire to the pub for an ale."

[SpawnOfMorbo]

They're good for the local economy because they're travelers with deep pockets. They kill off any monsters you point them at, put some gold and cheap loot into the market, and they usually kill some monsters on the way to town too. They usually don't cause too much collateral damage (emphasis on "usually" there).

So I think they'd be generally well-received unless that specific group got a reputation for causing trouble.

Everyone loved Gaston in Beauty and the Beast.

Truely he was the adventurer's adventurer and the real good guy of the story... I mean, relatively speaking. That is one messed up movie by Disney.

[georgie_leech]

We try to stack the first impression deck in our favor as a group of adventurers. I think I've played in a half a dozen campaigns now where our party buys a wagon, fills it with supplies and goods, and then masquerades as a merchant with his guards and paid passengers travelling out to wherever the action may be. Villagers may be wary of a group of heavily armed men riding towards their town on horseback, but the prospect of doing trade, hearing news, and maybe catching a ride to wherever the merchant is headed next makes for quite the friendly reception. If we're headed to the village for a specific reason (we heard orcs were conducting raids, monsters were ravaging fields, etc), we'd tailor our broad assortment of goods to help with whatever the crisis was; medicine for the wounded, foodstuffs, what-have-you.

But then, in most of the games I play, the idea of one's job being "adventurer" is kind of odd--like being a professional wanderer. Everyone has something that they do, or at least say that they do, during the 90% of life that is relatively mundane. The adventure is (or is at least presented to others as) a temporary deviation from normal life. The Fighter is also a weapon smith, or he instructs town militias, or he is a private swordsmanship tutor. The Rogue is also a jeweler, or craftsman, or merchant. The Wizard also tutors fledgling mages or children with potential; teaching some useful cantrip or magical-related knowledge. Everybody has a gig that they can use to provide their lifestyle expenses--not that they necessarily need to or ever engage in that profession. The point is to not be an alien; being able to say "I'm a mason by trade" puts people at ease as opposed to "I charge into monster dens, kill everything that moves, take everything not nailed down, and then retire to the pub for an ale."

I'll say. What self respecting adventurer let's a little thing like nails stand between them and loot?

[Clistenes]

I'll say. What self respecting adventurer let's a little thing like nails stand between them and loot?

He's speaking of floorboards and supporting beams. Adventurers usually don't take away architectural elements, but if those weren't nailed down, they would mistake them for loot and steal them. :smalltongue:

[georgie_leech]

He's speaking of floorboards and supporting beans. Adventurers usually don't take away architectural elements, but if those weren't nailed down, they would mistake them for loot and steal them. :smalltongue:

Bah, you say 'cave in and rockslide,' I say 'expedited loot retrieval and transport.' :smallbiggrin: If the Lich didn't want his doors stolen they shouldn't have been made out of adamantine.

[Slipperychicken]

Everyone loved Gaston in Beauty and the Beast.

Truely he was the adventurer's adventurer and the real good guy of the story... I mean, relatively speaking. That is one messed up movie by Disney.

I don't care if he's the villain. Anyone who eats 60 eggs (!!) every morning while keeping that figure deserves some respect for it.

[CNagy]

He's speaking of floorboards and supporting beans. Adventurers usually don't take away architectural elements, but if those weren't nailed down, they would mistake them for loot and steal them. :smalltongue:

I played a hermit once whose discovery was the realization that all obstacles were, in fact, potential assets. To him, the nails are loot.

[Clistenes]

I played a hermit once whose discovery was the realization that all obstacles were, in fact, potential assets. To him, the nails are loot.

Well, in some cultures they could be used as money. Iron is very expensive if you live in a pre-industrial culture hundreds of miles away from the nearest iron mine.

[KorvinStarmast]

"I charge into monster dens, kill everything that moves, take everything not nailed down, and then retire to the pub for an ale." I am interested in your career field and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :smallbiggrin: (Signed: a cleric looking for potential clients)


He's speaking of floorboards and supporting beans.
If you can use them for support (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20375215&postcount=31), you probably need to soak them, and then cook them.

[Mr.Moron]

Sounds like they need better local authorities.

That would be moving away from the default setting. Which is fine generally, I never play in it. However my post was speaking specifically to a world where the town guards are all roughly on par with the town guards as presented in the PHB/MM: A dozen killed to the the last man with a few words and a single gesture.

The commoner reaction to adventurer's in a world where common guards are equivalent to 10th level players and all settlements have magic-absorbing fields that protect from the whims of a Chaotic Psycho sorcerer is very different from the one presented in the PHB/MM.

Similarly, a universe where all PCs (and NPC adventurers) are inherently good-aligned ,or at minimum on the good-leaning side of neutral is very different from one where you take open-ended alignment at character creation as representative of the world as a whole.

However the default world is one where town guards are feeble compared to PCs, magic is exceeding rare, commoners are vaporized by 1st level spells, and while the exception evil adventurer's are certainly allowed at least with GMs permission.

[KorvinStarmast]

However the default world is one where town guards are feeble compared to PCs, magic is exceeding rare, commoners are vaporized by 1st level spells, and while the exception evil adventurer's are certainly allowed at least with GMs permission. Completely agree, except that the "feeble" guards will depend upon the town. Some towns have better militia/guards than others. Depends upon who settled there.

Let's look at the generic Guard from the book.

AC 16 (chain shirt, shield) // HP 11 (2d8 + 2) // Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
13 (+1) 12 (+1) 12 (+1) 10 (+0) 11 (+0) 10 (+0)
Skills Perception +2 , Senses passive Perception 12
Languages any one language (usually Common) CR 1/8 (25 XP)

Actions
Spear. Melee or Ranged Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft. or range 20/60 ft., one target.
Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage, or 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage if used with two hands to make a melee attack.
Guards include members of a city watch, sentries in a citadel or fortified town ...
You can make a modest change to reflect that a few retired soldiers from one of the king's regiments lives nearby.
50% of the guards are as above
30% are armed with scimitar long bow or mace and crossbow
20% are armed with Halberds or other pole arm, or pikes. Half of these have pole arm mastery. (Trained by the retired soldiers ...)

In a town with 20 guards, you may also have a couple of sergeants/leader types, or some veterans, with a few more HD and maybe an additional attack or an Action Surge to reflect having once been a fighter.

your town guard isn't quite as "feeble" with just a minor tweek.

Add in a few Scouts and a few "Veterans" ((per the rules)) and your town/county militia is significantly lmore effective ... even if they are part time and spend most of their time plying a trade or raising livestock/crops.


Scout: AC 13 HP (3d8 + 3) Sp 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
11 (+0) 14 (+2) 12 (+1) 11 (+0) 13 (+1) 11 (+0)
Skills Nature +4, Perception +5, Stealth +6, Survival +5 Passive Perc 15
CR 1/2 (100 XP) Adv on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or sight.

Actions
Multiattack. The scout makes two melee attacks or two ranged attacks.
Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing
damage.
Longbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, ranged 150/600 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing
damage.

Veteran
AC 17 HP (9d8 + 18) Sp 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
16 (+3) 13 (+1) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 11 (+0) 10 (+0)
Skills Athletics +5, Perception +2 Senses passive Perception 12
Languages any one language (usually Common) CR 3 (700 XP)

Actions
Multiattack. two longsword attacks. If it has a shortsword drawn, it can also make a shortsword attack.
Longsword. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) slashing or 8 (1d10 + 3) slashing damage if used with two hands.
Shortsword. +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) piercing damage.
Heavy Crossbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, range 100/400 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d10 + 1)
piercing.

Veterans ... include soldiers retired from long service

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I don't care if he's the villain. Anyone who eats 60 eggs (!!) every morning while keeping that figure deserves some respect for it.

But he wasn't the villain.

He was just the local Folk Hero Adventurer who had the hots for the weird chick and didn't hate on her for being nerdy (everyone else made fun of her for it). He even didn't hold it against her for having a crazy father.

This movie bugged me as a child, recently I found a cracked video on this... You should Google it.

99% of the movies and stories out there? Gaston is the protagonist arrogant (but likeable) good guy.

[Mr.Moron]

Completely agree, except that the "feeble" guards will depend upon the town. Some towns have better militia/guards than others. Depends upon who settled there.

They have the Town Guard. 11hp, AC 16 no saves. You could argue that a particularly wealthy or contested area might have Knights at the ready who put up more than a fight. Even allowing for a healthy +/- 50% power level in the guards as presented, it's clear they stand not chance against PCs.

I'd argue that boosting the common guards to the point where they're competitive with PCs constitutes a large enough change from what is put forward in the base rules to represent more than a simple variance in competency. It would be well into the territory of changing the scope/nature of the town guard and consequently the overall tone of the setting they're a part of.

Which again is fine, I've never run a game in the default setting myself. I'm just saying that when it comes to the default setting I don't see much room for powerful guards, at least with the material we've been given so far.

EDIT: I would say handing them out feats, and heroic PC abilities like action surge constitutions a sufficient change to longer be the same kind of world as the default world. PCs and therefore by extension PC classes and PC abilities are called as being exceedingly rare, belonging to a select few born to greatness. That's what a PC is. If some random guard captain is on that level, it really is a different tone than what we're given by default. (again fine, but just not what my original post was speaking to)

[Clistenes]

But he wasn't the villain.

He was just the local Folk Hero Adventurer who had the hots for the weird chick and didn't hate on her for being nerdy (everyone else made fun of her for it). He even didn't hold it against her for having a crazy father.

This movie bugged me as a child, recently I found a cracked video on this... You should Google it.

99% of the movies and stories out there? Gaston is the protagonist arrogant (but likeable) good guy.

Didn't Gaston bribe the manager of the local madhouse so he would put Belle's father behind bars, and he could that way blackmail Belle into marrying him? That sounds pretty evil to me.

[KorvinStarmast]

They have the Town Guard. 11hp, AC 16 no saves. You could argue that a particularly wealthy or contested area might have Knights at the ready who put up more than a fight. Even allowing for a healthy +/- 50% power level in the guards as presented, it's clear they stand not chance against PCs.
I see your point, but you didn't have to add in knights. Again, it depends upon the town, and what they can afford, and if they have any old veterans living. As you can see, some of the NPC's get multiple attacks but do not have, for their HD, the extra powers and skills of a PC.

As the PC's go up in level, though, your point becomes stronger: as spell casters get more spells with more power, town guards even if slightly tweaked, are going to be quickly outclassed.

[georgie_leech]

But he wasn't the villain.

He was just the local Folk Hero Adventurer who had the hots for the weird chick and didn't hate on her for being nerdy (everyone else made fun of her for it). He even didn't hold it against her for having a crazy father.

This movie bugged me as a child, recently I found a cracked video on this... You should Google it.

99% of the movies and stories out there? Gaston is the protagonist arrogant (but likeable) good guy.

Quibble, he's only interested in her because she's not interested in him when all the other girls fall at his feet. Who she is as a person is literally inconsequential to him, as he's not interested in getting to know her so much as overcoming the challenge she presents. To him, she's a trophy to be won, not a person.

[Madbox]

Didn't Gaston bribe the manager of the local madhouse so he would put Belle's father behind bars, and he could that way blackmail Belle into marrying him? That sounds pretty evil to me.

You say evil, I say standard romantic comedy protagonist move :smalltongue:. Of course, most romantic comedy protagonists are annoying jerks at best, amoral monsters at worst if you stop and think about it.

[georgie_leech]

You say evil, I say standard romantic comedy protagonist move :smalltongue:. Of course, most romantic comedy protagonists are annoying jerks at best, amoral monsters at worst if you stop and think about it.

More like totally dysfunctional, and that goes for either member of the couple. Most Rom-Coms act as perfect 'How (Not) to Love' guides. He may not be a BBEG but he is very much the villain in Belle's story, as his every action aside from his intro song is either for the express purpose of making her his (no falling in love, just possessing her) or makes her situation worse.

[mephnick]

That would be moving away from the default setting. Which is fine generally, I never play in it. However my post was speaking specifically to a world where the town guards are all roughly on par with the town guards as presented in the PHB/MM: A dozen killed to the the last man with a few words and a single gesture.

Sure, but a decent city should have hundreds of these guys, including higher level captains. Evil adventurers can be scary and powerful, but taking on the town guard should still be pretty stupid, unless you're playing 3.5

[KorvinStarmast]

Sure, but a decent city should have hundreds of these guys, including higher level captains. Evil adventurers can be scary and powerful, but taking on the town guard should still be pretty stupid, unless you're playing 3.5
Yeah: bounded accuracy does allow quantity to overcome some quality.

[Mr.Moron]

Sure, but a decent city should have hundreds of these guys, including higher level captains. Evil adventurers can be scary and powerful, but taking on the town guard should still be pretty stupid, unless you're playing 3.5

I'm not talking about a huge city. Almost none of the world's population is going to be living in cities. Commoners are going to be living either in outlying farms far from any guards at at all, or small towns with perhaps the ability to arm a handful of militia.

I'll concede that city with 100s of guards could certainly solve their adventurer problem after throwing several waves of men at them and probably losing dozens, and taking tons of collateral damage in what is bound to be less than a perfectly coordinated strike. However this is only relevant for the tiny slice of people that live and such places. When talking about the attitudes of "Commoners" it makes far more sense to talk about the experience of those living in rural areas and backwoods towns.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Quibble, he's only interested in her because she's not interested in him when all the other girls fall at his feet. Who she is as a person is literally inconsequential to him, as he's not interested in getting to know her so much as overcoming the challenge she presents. To him, she's a trophy to be won, not a person.

He's got the mentality of man who is worshipped as the best thing since slice bread (actually, I'm not sure if they have slice bread, he might BE slice bread to them), sure he has character flaws.

You can typically see this same thingninbstar athletes as they grow up. Look at the difference between Football players and Hockey players (in U.S). They just have a completely different personality due to how they are hero worshiped (or not hero worshipped).

However, he isn't letting peer pressure push him away from her, treating her like a trophy is par for the Disney course since he is a male (Disney is full of sexism), and he shows signs of wanting her for more than a trophy. Hell, she is a trophy because she is so much better than the others, if she wasn't who she is, she would just be another chick that wants him.

Gaston, being the mentally stunted quarterback that he is may not understand enough about himself to fully articulate why she has to be his trophy.

His yearning for Belle isn't just about Belle, but about becoming the best. He wants to be Belle in a way because, at least to him, she isn't a plebe like the other women and he may even see her as better than him. If he can "have her" then that just shows that he is better than he thinks he is.

Plus, and let's be honest here, beast is no better and mostly worse... Stockholm syndrome in order to get magical plastic surgery is mighty screwy.

I'm not saying Gaston is perfect, but he is far from being a villain. Out the word "Prince" in front of his name as you have a par for the course Disney hero (just look at Alladin for instance).

But, back to my original thought that I'm not sure I completely got out....

Gaston is one of the ways I see commoners looking at adventurers and in a world such as forgotten realms I would venture to guess star struck and envy might be the best guess.

Unless adventuring is all a conspiracy and there really isn't any monsters, just animals and some bored mentally ill illusionist wizards.

[krugaan]

However, he isn't letting peer pressure push him away from her, treating her like a trophy is par for the Disney course since he is a male (Disney is full of sexism), and he shows signs of wanting her for more than a trophy. Hell, she is a trophy because she is so much better than the others, if she wasn't who she is, she would just be another chick that wants him.


Disney isn't *that* sexist. The majority of the protagonists in Disney (animated) movies have been female, hence all the princesses. Pre-Mermaid Disney movies, maybe, but even then, only sort of. Racist, yeah.


His yearning for Belle isn't just about Belle, but about becoming the best. He wants to be Belle in a way because, at least to him, she isn't a plebe like the other women and he may even see her as better than him. If he can "have her" then that just shows that he is better than he thinks he is.

Plus, and let's be honest here, beast is no better and mostly worse... Stockholm syndrome in order to get magical plastic surgery is mighty screwy.


Gaston has no redeeming qualities other than his physique. Stockholm syndrome implies Beast is the captor, which he is not. In fact, the whole point of Beast v. Gaston is that they are both physically imposing and stupid, but Beast changes and wins in the end. Yes, a hamfisted moral platitude, but whatever, it's a Disney movie we're talking about.


I'm not saying Gaston is perfect, but he is far from being a villain. Out the word "Prince" in front of his name as you have a par for the course Disney hero (just look at Alladin for instance).

He's an egomaniacal amoral narcissist. All he lacks is drive and intelligence and you have your typical evil mastermind.


Gaston is one of the ways I see commoners looking at adventurers and in a world such as forgotten realms I would venture to guess star struck and envy might be the best guess.

Unless adventuring is all a conspiracy and there really isn't any monsters, just animals and some bored mentally ill illusionist wizards.

Maybe? Except Gaston actually is part of the community and, I guess, does something useful by hunting and protecting them? I haven't seen the movie in a long time.

Adventurer's are wanderers and with very few exceptions don't really enrich the areas they visit. Lol, the majority of the places they do visit tend to be rather poorer for the attention, really.

On a side note, I'm assuming adventurers are very easy to distinguish from the general population.

1) weapons
2) armor
3) travel gear
4) weird companions
5) loot
6) disheveled appearance

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Disney isn't *that* sexist. The majority of the protagonists in Disney (animated) movies have been female, hence all the princesses. Pre-Mermaid Disney movies, maybe, but even then, only sort of. Racist, yeah.



Gaston has no redeeming qualities other than his physique. Stockholm syndrome implies Beast is the captor, which he is not. In fact, the whole point of Beast v. Gaston is that they are both physically imposing and stupid, but Beast changes and wins in the end. Yes, a hamfisted moral platitude, but whatever, it's a Disney movie we're talking about.



He's an egomaniacal amoral narcissist. All he lacks is drive and intelligence and you have your typical evil mastermind.



Maybe? Except Gaston actually is part of the community and, I guess, does something useful by hunting and protecting them? I haven't seen the movie in a long time.

Adventurer's are wanderers and with very few exceptions don't really enrich the areas they visit. Lol, the majority of the places they do visit tend to be rather poorer for the attention, really.

On a side note, I'm assuming adventurers are very easy to distinguish from the general population.

1) weapons
2) armor
3) travel gear
4) weird companions
5) loot
6) disheveled appearance

Just because the main character is female doesn't mean the shows aren't sexist. Disney is full of sexism on both sides of the line.

Gaston fits perfectly as a Disney hero. Aladin, at least in the first movie, is is pretty much the same way from beginning to end. Hell, I don't blame Jafar or anyone else for wanting to get rid of the current ruler of Agrabah, the place really really really sucks.

When you look on the surface you see what Disney wants you to see for the sake of the movie. Gaston is a bad guy. But when you look underneath the surface you see what he really is. A flawed character who is a victim of circumstance and society who is really just doing the best he can, and doing his job (monster killer/village defender).

And really, that is what adventurers are in D&D and other settings. They are flawed people most of the time but they are a product of their environment. If you look at the surface of some adventurers you will see murder hobos and you won't see the compete picture (maybe those murder hobos killed the goblin horde on their way to sack the town?).

Edit

Beauty and the Beast plot
"Beauty and the Beast focuses on the relationship between the Beast (Robby Benson), a prince who is magically transformed into a monster as punishment for his arrogance, and Belle (Paige O'Hara), a beautiful young woman whom he imprisons in his castle. To become a prince again, Beast must win her love in return otherwise he remains a monster forever. "

Wikipedia

Beast is the bad guy in any other movie. This story just happens to allow this very sketchy neckbeard to be the good guy And send the message that Stockholm syndrom = love.

[Douche]

I just cast Friends on everyone I meet, all the time. Then when the whole town is like "Ey, we ken ye casted some spellers on us, ye wretched conjurer!" I'm like "Are you sure? Maybe there's just something in the water. Maybe you guys are just being superstitious. Crazy hillbillies."

[KorvinStarmast]

I just cast Friends on everyone I meet, all the time. Then when the whole town is like "Ey, we ken ye casted some spellers on us, ye wretched conjurer!" I'm like "Are you sure? Maybe there's just something in the water. Maybe you guys are just being superstitious. Crazy hillbillies."
This looks like a quote from --
How Not to Win Friends and Influence People
-- By Dale Charismagie.
Scrolls available at scribes near you!

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I just cast Friends on everyone I meet, all the time. Then when the whole town is like "Ey, we ken ye casted some spellers on us, ye wretched conjurer!" I'm like "Are you sure? Maybe there's just something in the water. Maybe you guys are just being superstitious. Crazy hillbillies."

Jokes on you, the entire town was actually changelings trying to find the right party to help them get rid of their doppelganger overlords. They fled and found an abandoned village and just assumed new lives.

You would have made so much money, prestige, and loot... Oh well...

[Clistenes]

On a side note, I'm assuming adventurers are very easy to distinguish from the general population.

1) weapons
2) armor
3) travel gear
4) weird companions
5) loot
6) disheveled appearance

Mmmm...

1) and 2) would be common for any soldier or knight.
1) and 3) would be common for any traveler.
4) is far from general. The ranger's animal companion can be a dog, the wizard's familiar can be a barn owl that stays out of sight while in the village.
5) They may not carry a wagon of loot while they travel. They may be looking for a dungeon, not coming out of one. And if they do have loot, one of them could pass for a traveling merchant.
6) is common for travelers, but they could keep a clean set of clothes for when they enter a village. Or the could clean and fix their clothes with a couple cantrips.

As I said, people would identify them as adventurers with ease only if the population is used to see adventurers and know what to look for.

Also, the party may not consider themselves an adventurer party; they could see themselves as a group of citizens that gathered together to face a crisis. The PCs in Red Hand of Doom, for example, could be a group of neighbours who gather together to fight against the hobgoblins.

[BootStrapTommy]

In general I'd guess people aren't too happy with armed bands of deranged sociopaths coming into their towns, so people would probably be unhappy about it.

[krugaan]

Mmmm...

1) and 2) would be common for any soldier or knight.
1) and 3) would be common for any traveler.
4) is far from general. The ranger's animal companion can be a dog, the wizard's familiar can be a barn owl that stays out of sight while in the village.
5) They may not carry a wagon of loot while they travel. They may be looking for a dungeon, not coming out of one. And if they do have loot, one of them could pass for a traveling merchant.
6) is common for travelers, but they could keep a clean set of clothes for when they enter a village. Or the could clean and fix their clothes with a couple cantrips.

As I said, people would identify them as adventurers with ease only if the population is used to see adventurers and know what to look for.

Also, the party may not consider themselves an adventurer party; they could see themselves as a group of citizens that gathered together to face a crisis. The PCs in Red Hand of Doom, for example, could be a group of neighbours who gather together to fight against the hobgoblins.

1/2) soldiers and knights would wear livery, adventurers rarely do, if ever
1/3) true, if travelers are common enough
4) different races, different professions. adventuring parties are almost all mixed bag affairs, whereas otherwise normal people would tend to travel with people like themselves. Think about every party your characters have been in. Martials mixing with divine casters mixing with arcane casters would doubtless be very uncommon in the world.
5) true enough, bags of holding
6) good point about the cantrips, although I doubt most people do that. PCs tend to be very utilitarian.

And the point is not that any one of those things is indicative of an adventurer in and of itself. It's the aggregate that clearly makes adventurers distinctive, and generally speaking every adventurer or group adventurers has all those things in common. (maybe not 5).

[Slipperychicken]

They have the Town Guard. 11hp, AC 16 no saves. You could argue that a particularly wealthy or contested area might have Knights at the ready who put up more than a fight. Even allowing for a healthy +/- 50% power level in the guards as presented, it's clear they stand not chance against PCs.

The knight statblock is CR 3, and they bring friends with them. A group of knights and their men-at-arms could pose a threat to low-level PCs. Things look a little better if some of the retinue are veterans or scouts instead of guards.


Still, people with the guard statblock are supposed to deal with commoners, bandits, and maybe other guards. They're the mall cops of D&D. You shouldn't expect Officer Friendly to be on even footing with elite soldiers. If they do run into serious combatants, the most they can be expected do is keep them busy while someone else evacuates people and calls the cavalry.

[Douche]

The knight statblock is CR 3, and they bring friends with them. A group of knights and their men-at-arms could pose a threat to low-level PCs. Things look a little better if some of the retinue are veterans or scouts instead of guards.


Still, people with the guard statblock are supposed to deal with commoners, bandits, and maybe other guards. They're the mall cops of D&D. You shouldn't expect Officer Friendly to be on even footing with elite soldiers. If they do run into serious combatants, the most they can be expected do is keep them busy while someone else evacuates people and calls the cavalry.

If I learned anything from playing RPGs, it's that town guards will always be 5 levels above the player, no matter what. Are you a max level warrior with a mace of insta-gibbing? The guards will still provide a decent challenge with their rusty iron swords and -1 armor of disrepair.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

If I learned anything from playing RPGs, it's that town guards will always be 5 levels above the player, no matter what. Are you a max level warrior with a mace of insta-gibbing? The guards will still provide a decent challenge with their rusty iron swords and -1 armor of disrepair.

Nah, that's the nice way out.

After the players kill the guard it just so happened to be "bring your daughter to work day". A small girl comes up to the lifeless body and goes all simba (when trying to "wake up" mufasa) to the dead guard. People start to notice this and talk.

Soon no one will sell them anything, no one will buy from them.

If thebolayers stick around and do more damage it just gets worse.

After a few days from the event a wizard (who adopted the small child or is her cousin/uncle or whatever) starts scrying on the players and recording their actions.

Soon the entire region/kingdom knows of these people who murdered a father in cold blood in front of his daughter...

Even the Orcs look at the PCs like they are monsters. Yeah sure, Orcs rape, kill, and enslave... But they don't just do it to members of their own kind (maybe orcs from other regions but not allied orcs) and let children watch... All because the dead guard was doing his duty... Like that is some level of messed up. And then to make the child drink the blood while you put on a marrionet play with the dead father''s body and make the little girl dance with the corpse? These adventurers are twisted beyond what even gruumish would allow. (obviously rumors spread and things get changed by accident).

Note: Killing your PC or curb stomping your PC would be the nice way for me to punish players. Nah, start murdering in cold blood and you get yourself nicknames and a little girl who will one day learn enough deadly abilities to turn you inside out (if you are lucky).

I like to have fun with my players and let their own actions be the reason for their downfall.

Not everything is this extreme but if you got into a habit of fighting and killing town guards...

[PoeticDwarf]

I don't think I've had two games where they're viewed the same. The way adventurers relate to commoners is very dependant on the setting and even tone of particular campaign.If we're talking about the default FR-type setting with an open ended tone?

I'd image fear would be the overriding reaction. Past 5th level or so, adventurers can destroy you and everything you care about an instant with little you or the local authorities can do to retaliate. It doesn't matter if most of them are decent folks it only takes one hair-trigger murder hobo to scour your village off the face of the map.

You stay out of sight.
You speak when spoken to.
You agree to any requests made immediately.
You don't insist on payment for anything and charge only when asked.
You pray to whatever god you think protects you that they just go away.

My commoners just wait. See what the adventurers do before they react or come with a bright opinion (well, most NPCs)

[Chalkarts]

One of my friends likes to refer to Adventurers as "Murderhobos" since they tend to be homeless and rampage across the countryside looting and pillaging.

I'd think most commoners view Murderhobos with a little bit of fear and contempt but mostly just eyerolling exasperation.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

One of my friends likes to refer to Adventurers as "Murderhobos" since they tend to be homeless and rampage across the countryside looting and pillaging.

I'd think most commoners view Murderhobos with a little bit of fear and contempt but mostly just eyerolling exasperation.

Yeah, murderhobos is a very common name for them. However the biggest difference is that our economy and safety isn't reliant on packs of hobos to keep us safe so I doubt commoners would see all or even most as we would see murderhobos.

[Keltest]

Mmmm... another point to take into account... Can people recognize adventurers for what they are? The Ranger is a hunter, the Fighter, a soldier, the Paladin, a knight, the Bard, a musician, the Wizard, a scholar, the Cleric, a priest... All those are respectable occupations, community leaders, in some cases... Why would anybody think that those are troublemakers?

Yes, it would be weird to see them travelling together, but people used to travel in groups to protect each other, many people would just believe that the scholar, the musician and the priest joined the warriors for protection.

So, unless that particular group is already infamous, or adventuring parties are commonplace in that world and people has learnt to recognized them on sight, people shouldn't know that they are a PC party.

Depends on the group and individual. Paladins and the like are practically contractually required to be visible and approachable, Bards are literally required to be seen and noticed, but a rogue would probably not want to advertise the fact that theyre a rogue unless theyre specifically looking for a job. Fighters, rangers and other martial classes would have a few tells even if theyre just in the tavern, and that would probably make people wary of them, like how the people of Bree didn't like Aragorn even though he was an all around good guy who helped them a lot.

Regarding them being troublemakers, they may not make it, but they actively seek it out, so seeing an adventurer on the job would be a deeply troubling sign, especially for a small community.

[RickAllison]

Nah, that's the nice way out.

After the players kill the guard it just so happened to be "bring your daughter to work day". A small girl comes up to the lifeless body and goes all simba (when trying to "wake up" mufasa) to the dead guard. People start to notice this and talk.

Soon no one will sell them anything, no one will buy from them.

If thebolayers stick around and do more damage it just gets worse.

After a few days from the event a wizard (who adopted the small child or is her cousin/uncle or whatever) starts scrying on the players and recording their actions.

Soon the entire region/kingdom knows of these people who murdered a father in cold blood in front of his daughter...

Even the Orcs look at the PCs like they are monsters. Yeah sure, Orcs rape, kill, and enslave... But they don't just do it to members of their own kind (maybe orcs from other regions but not allied orcs) and let children watch... All because the dead guard was doing his duty... Like that is some level of messed up. And then to make the child drink the blood while you put on a marrionet play with the dead father''s body and make the little girl dance with the corpse? These adventurers are twisted beyond what even gruumish would allow. (obviously rumors spread and things get changed by accident).

Note: Killing your PC or curb stomping your PC would be the nice way for me to punish players. Nah, start murdering in cold blood and you get yourself nicknames and a little girl who will one day learn enough deadly abilities to turn you inside out (if you are lucky).

I like to have fun with my players and let their own actions be the reason for their downfall.

Not everything is this extreme but if you got into a habit of fighting and killing town guards...

Thank you. My players will hate you, but I thank you... >:)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Thank you. My players will hate you, but I thank you... >:)

Your welcome!

A child who becomes a Warlock (Fiend) and a politician/city leader would be a very deadly adversary.

[Vogonjeltz]

Mmmm... another point to take into account... Can people recognize adventurers for what they are? The Ranger is a hunter, the Fighter, a soldier, the Paladin, a knight, the Bard, a musician, the Wizard, a scholar, the Cleric, a priest... All those are respectable occupations, community leaders, in some cases... Why would anybody think that those are troublemakers?

Yes, it would be weird to see them travelling together, but people used to travel in groups to protect each other, many people would just believe that the scholar, the musician and the priest joined the warriors for protection.

So, unless that particular group is already infamous, or adventuring parties are commonplace in that world and people has learnt to recognized them on sight, people shouldn't know that they are a PC party.

Yes, I would imagine that the background any given character has chosen, in combination with their lifestyle, is much more likely to influence how observers perceive an adventurer.

You could easily have a party where everyone is a Scholar, and they'd just be viewed as a group of traveling scholars (who happen to have different skill sets).

Maybe one is a closet kleptomaniac (thief), another studies the martial arts (champion), another practices aestheticism (way of the open hand), and yet another has focused on the study of religion (knowledge domain).

All outwardly the same, yet containing hidden depths.

[RickAllison]

Your welcome!

A child who becomes a Warlock (Fiend) and a politician/city leader would be a very deadly adversary.

Indeed. My only worry is that there is usually at least one player who would probably just kill the girl there. No future nemesis then!

[Madbox]

Indeed. My only worry is that there is usually at least one player who would probably just kill the girl there. No future nemesis then!

The mother is now after them. Or Big Brother, who has a job as a caravan guard and was out of town. You just gotta figure out how to foreshadow their impending doom, to make it not seem too much "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.":smallwink:

[endur]

Here's a question that's been on my mind. How do commoner NPCs view adventurers? I mean, whenever they come into town, large sections are burned, they've attempted to seduce and copulate with almost everything, living and nonliving, in sight, drink all the alcohol they can find, etc.

On the other hand, they're typically wealthy, ready to fling more money around in a night of partying than most people would see in their lifetime, they're buying supplies, gear, paying for information, etc.

How do your commoners see adventurers?

Combination of Vikings and Rock Stars.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

The mother is now after them. Or Big Brother, who has a job as a caravan guard and was out of town. You just gotta figure out how to foreshadow their impending doom, to make it not seem too much "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.":smallwink:

Pretty much this, hell, even the guard's captain or partner could become an antagonist to the party.

I didn't mean to just paint the child as a BBEG either, she technically could be LG or CG and still want revenge on the party.

[Mellack]

The mother is now after them. Or Big Brother, who has a job as a caravan guard and was out of town. You just gotta figure out how to foreshadow their impending doom, to make it not seem too much "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.":smallwink:

That is why you make sure to leave no witnesses. Scorch it to the ground.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

That is why you make sure to leave no witnesses. Scorch it to the ground.

Which just causes more witnesses. Just off the top of my head...

One lone teenager from the town escaped (as is tradition)

A group of druids on their way to the town to sign a peace treaty notice their forest on fire and come quickly to investigate, they wildshape and fly/sneak through the area.

A BBEG heard of the tales of the adventurer group, he doesn't like being shown up on his turf, he puts out a hit on this rival gang of adventurers.

The town you scorched to the earth had someone in cahoots with a devil who needed X sacrifices so that a portal could be opened up. Your party just gave the devil triple the needed sacrifices... You now are staring at a portal to help with a lot of devils go omg through...

[RickAllison]

Which just causes more witnesses. Idled the top of my head...

One lone teenager from the town escaped (as is tradition)

A group of druids on their way to the town to sign a peace treaty notice their forest on fire and come quickly to investigate, they wildshape and fly/sneak through the area.

A BBEG heard of the tales of the adventurer group, he doesn't like being shown up on his turf, he puts out a hit on this rival gang of adventurers.

The town you scorched to the earth had someone in cahoots with a devil who needed X sacrifices so that a portal could be opened up. Your party just gave the devil triple the needed sacrifices... You now are staring at a portal to help with a lot of devils go omg through...

Oh my gosh, that's perfect! Assemble a second group of players whose backstory involves trauma because of the villainous first party, then have it culminate in a fight to the death between the two parties. I really like this idea now :smallbiggrin:

[Clistenes]

Depends on the group and individual. Paladins and the like are practically contractually required to be visible and approachable, Bards are literally required to be seen and noticed,

Musicians and other entertainers need to be seen and noticed, but not all of those are Bards, and even less would be adventurers. For all people know, the Bard of the party is just a minstrel in search of patronage. And he could be just that until orcs attack the town and the character joins the defenders.

As for the Paladin, that is his class, but, what is his social role? If he's an aristocrat, or a royal householf knight, or a templar, or an inquisitor, or a sheriff, or a town guard, he would be highly respected. Or he could just be a veteran heavy cavalry soldier who has been discharged after the end of the war and is going back home.



That is why you make sure to leave no witnesses. Scorch it to the ground.

At which point you have to deal with all the vengeful spontanous undead raised by the destruction of the town, the paladins and clerics of Pelor sent by the church to hunt the undead and investigate who created them, and the king's Justiciar, who has arrived with the court wizard to cast some divinations and find who destroyed the town.

[JackPhoenix]

I played a hermit once whose discovery was the realization that all obstacles were, in fact, potential assets. To him, the nails are loot.

I've actually put nails as a loot in one adventure...they were silver nails on a cage holding people bitten by the wererat villain, the nails pointed inward to discourage them from breaking the cage. He had the tribe of kobolds he took control of kidnap travelers (the kobolds were immune to lycantropy, being reptilians and not mammals), then put them into cage to see which one would turn, and kept them there until they were all ready to be unleashed on a nearby city.

Ironicaly, the nails were the only thing the characters didn't loot (despite being the most valuable thing around)


A child who becomes a Warlock (Fiend) and a politician/city leader would be a very deadly adversary.

Kinda reminds me of a new (after Cataclysm) storyline from World of Warcraft's Westfall. Edwin VanCleef wasn't a guard, but an elite agent of the crown turned architect turned leader of bandit organisation (though his original reasons were justified, it got out of hand). Years later, mysterious new leader begins to re-create the organisation (Defias Brotherhood) after it was destroyed. You undertake a few quests to discover this new villain's identity, and... well, this quest made me feel like a **** for farming VanCleef for his armor... https://youtu.be/SaKEUK4Nuoo?t=127 (the end of the scene is about 4 minutes in)