[3.5] Build Help - Ascetic Knight Build Monk Pally

[evnaz]

Has anyone ever tried to use Ascetic Knight? Would exalted monk work with the ascetic knight feat? if so a vow of poverty monk 15 for all the tank/utility (Also quivering palm) and Paladin 5
I feel like this build could have some nice flavor to it and sadly I'm too inexperienced to know how to properly build something like this. I would like to know what feats and race to take for a build like this which would mainly be a utility based tank

[Cerefel]

Honestly you're probably not going to want to take more than 6 levels of monk, because the features you get from it just aren't worth the crap chassis especially since you can progress basically all of the useful features with paladin levels.

Aside from that, a lot of your build should probably be focused on buffing your unarmed damage or putting together a strong attack routine. Some must-have feats include Serenity, Superior Unarmed Strike and/or Improved Natural Attack, and Improved Trip.

[Troacctid]

Honestly you're probably not going to want to take more than 6 levels of monk, because the features you get from it just aren't worth the crap chassis especially since you can progress basically all of the useful features with paladin levels.

I assume you mean 7 levels; Shadow Blend at 7 is in the running for best ability in the whole class.

[jedipilot24]

I assume you mean 7 levels; Shadow Blend at 7 is in the running for best ability in the whole class.

Huh? Monks don't have Shadow Blend! As far as I know, the only way to get that ability in 3.5 is with the Shadow Creature template in Lords of Madness, but that has nothing to do with either the Monk class or 7th level.

To make a Miko build, you need no more than 6 levels of Monk and both of the Monk ACF's in Complete Champion are simply better than what they replace. No more than five or six levels of Paladin depending on whether you want Charging Smite (from PHB 2, replaces mount) or a Celestial template on your mount (from PLH, replaces Remove Disease). If you absolutely need a mount, the Drakkensteed from Dragon Magic can also fly and so is the best mount by far IMHO.

The Ascetic Knight feat, as you notes, ties it all together. However, at least in my opinion, most Exalted feats aren't worth it. Some are good, like Exalted Turning, but not enough to base an entire build on them.
To finish out the Miko build, several Prestige Classes are available. The most obvious is Sacred Fist from Complete Divine, but other contenders are Ordained Champion (from Complete Champion), Fist of Raziel (Exalted Deeds), Grey Guard (Complete Scoundrel), even Warpriest (CD) isn't that bad on a Paladin chassis and a one level dip in Ordained Champion statisfies the domain requirement. You have to worship Heironeus but since you're already Lawful Good, that's hardly a burden.

For that matter, I just realized that Paladin 5/Ordained Champion 5/Warpriest 10 makes a decent utility tank; Warpriest can be easily replaced with Grey Guard or Fist of Raziel if you want to further progress your Paladin abilities. The latter also gives a few Exalted feats.

[gorfnab]

Huh? Monks don't have Shadow Blend! As far as I know, the only way to get that ability in 3.5 is with the Shadow Creature template in Lords of Madness, but that has nothing to do with either the Monk class or 7th level.

Dark Moon Disciple Monk substitution levels - Champions of Valor

You could consider adding some Bard in for more utility

Human Bard 1/ Paladin 3/ Monk 2/ Paladin 14
Feats:
1. Able Learner (RoD) and either Nymphs Kiss (BoED) or Melodic Casting (CM)
3. Devoted Performer (CV)
5. B: Power Attack
6. B: Improved Bull Rush, Ascetic Knight (CV)
9. Initiate of Milil (CoV)
12. Shock Trooper (CW)
15. Battle Blessing (CC)
18. Words of Creation (BoED) or Divine Might (CW)

ACFs:
Healing Hymn (CC) - Bard
Overwhelming Attack (UA) - Monk
Charging Smite - Paladin - (PHBII) for more damage, or Divine Spirit (DS) for more utility
Curse Breaker (CM) - Paladin

Unarmed Strike of a 19th level Monk
Bardic Music of an 18th level Bard
Smite Evil damage of a 20th level Paladin, Smite Evil at 3/day

[atemu1234]

Dark Moon Disciple Monk substitution levels - Champions of Valor


Decent subs, possibly worth the chassis.

[jedipilot24]

Decent subs, possibly worth the chassis.

Sure...if you play in the Realms and worship Shar, which since you're a monk means being Lawful Evil. Kinda of a problem for most Pcs.

[Troacctid]

Sure...if you play in the Realms and worship Shar, which since you're a monk means being Lawful Evil. Kinda of a problem for most Pcs.

There's no penalty for shifting alignment after you have the levels.

I don't think you actually want more than one or two levels of Monk, though. Advancing your Paladin spellcasting and special mount seems generally better, especially since it comes on a better chassis.

[WeaselGuy]

Kind of a problem for most Pcs.

Only for immature players or for DMs who don't know how to integrate non-evil alignments. LE Dark Moon Disciple into Paladin of Tyranny could be really fun to pull off...

[atemu1234]

Only for immature players or for DMs who don't know how to integrate non-evil alignments. LE Dark Moon Disciple into Paladin of Tyranny could be really fun to pull off...

I think you meant non-good.

[WeaselGuy]

I think you meant non-good.

Yep, you're right... fixed...

[atemu1234]

Yep, you're right... fixed...

But you're right, it would be fun to pull off.

[WeaselGuy]

But you're right, it would be fun to pull off.




Level

Class

BAB

Fort

Ref

Will

Class Features

Feats



1

Hand & Fist Monk


2

2

2

Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike

Stunning Fist, Combat Casting



2

Hand & Fist Monk

1

3

3

3

Bonus Feat, Evasion

Combat Reflexes



3

Dark Moon Disciple Monk

2

3

3

3

Darkvision 60'

Weapon Finesse



4

Monk

3

4

4

4

Ki Strike (Magic), Slow Fall 20'




5

Monk

3

4

4

4

Purity of Body




6

Hand & Fist Monk

4

5

5

5

Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 30'

Improved Trip, Knock-Down



7

Dark Moon Disciple Monk

5

5

5

5

Shadow Blend




8

Paladin of Tyranny

6

7

5

5

Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Smite Good 1/day




9

Paladin of Tyranny

7

8

5

5

Divine Grace, Deadly Touch

Ascetic Knight



10

Paladin of Tyranny

8

8

6

6

Aura of Despair, Divine Health




11

Sacred Fist

9

10

8

8

Unarmed Damage




12

Sacred Fist

10

11

9

9


Superior Unarmed Strike



13

Sacred Fist

11

11

9

9





14

Sacred Fist

12

12

10

10

Sacred Flames 1/day




15

Sacred Fist

13

12

10

10


Snap Kick



16

Sacred Fist

14

13

11

11

Blindsense 10'




17

Sacred Fist

15

13

11

11





18

Sacred Fist

16

14

12

12

Sacred Flames 2/day

Battle Blessing



19

Sacred Fist

17

14

12

12





20

Sacred Fist

18

15

13

13

Inner Armor






Now, granted, it requires a little bit of DM adjudication, allowing for Ascetic Knight to key off of Smite Good, instead of Smite Evil, as written. And I really didn't feel like doing skill point allocation, but I think it should be feasible. Also, there's no real reason to take Combat Casting at level 1, except that it fills a prerequisite for Sacred Fist in 10 levels. Would probably suffer Elegance points in an IC/ZS/VC/etc competition. Oh, and I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Sacred Fist will advance Paladin spellcasting, even though Paladin doesn't have any spells before entering Sacred Fist. If it doesn't work, then take another level of Paladin before Sacred Fist, and lose Inner Armor (a hell of a boost to defense). Oh, and if you don't feel like going Dex based, then swap Weapon Finesse for Power Attack.

How's that look for an hour of work?

[atemu1234]

Level

Class

BAB

Fort

Ref

Will

Class Features

Feats



1

Hand & Fist Monk


2

2

2

Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike

Stunning Fist, Combat Casting



2

Hand & Fist Monk

1

3

3

3

Bonus Feat, Evasion

Combat Reflexes



3

Dark Moon Disciple Monk

2

3

3

3

Darkvision 60'

Weapon Finesse



4

Monk

3

4

4

4

Ki Strike (Magic), Slow Fall 20'




5

Monk

3

4

4

4

Purity of Body




6

Hand & Fist Monk

4

5

5

5

Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 30'

Improved Trip, Knock-Down



7

Dark Moon Disciple Monk

5

5

5

5

Shadow Blend




8

Paladin of Tyranny

6

7

5

5

Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Smite Good 1/day




9

Paladin of Tyranny

7

8

5

5

Divine Grace, Deadly Touch

Ascetic Knight



10

Paladin of Tyranny

8

8

6

6

Aura of Despair, Divine Health




11

Sacred Fist

9

10

8

8

Unarmed Damage




12

Sacred Fist

10

11

9

9


Superior Unarmed Strike



13

Sacred Fist

11

11

9

9





14

Sacred Fist

12

12

10

10

Sacred Flames 1/day




15

Sacred Fist

13

12

10

10


Snap Kick



16

Sacred Fist

14

13

11

11

Blindsense 10'




17

Sacred Fist

15

13

11

11





18

Sacred Fist

16

14

12

12

Sacred Flames 2/day

Battle Blessing



19

Sacred Fist

17

14

12

12





20

Sacred Fist

18

15

13

13

Inner Armor






Now, granted, it requires a little bit of DM adjudication, allowing for Ascetic Knight to key off of Smite Good, instead of Smite Evil, as written. And I really didn't feel like doing skill point allocation, but I think it should be feasible. Also, there's no real reason to take Combat Casting at level 1, except that it fills a prerequisite for Sacred Fist in 10 levels. Would probably suffer Elegance points in an IC/ZS/VC/etc competition. Oh, and I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Sacred Fist will advance Paladin spellcasting, even though Paladin doesn't have any spells before entering Sacred Fist. If it doesn't work, then take another level of Paladin before Sacred Fist, and lose Inner Armor (a hell of a boost to defense). Oh, and if you don't feel like going Dex based, then swap Weapon Finesse for Power Attack.

How's that look for an hour of work?

Pretty good.