Paladin Auras: Too powerful?

[Ouranos]

So my DM and I were talking today, and he feels the my paladin's auras are just OP as all hell. I told him the range limitation on them was pretty balancing overall, and that there were several auras that were specific to an Oath, but he's been reading that paladins are pretty OP overall in this edition. So I wanted to get the opinions here. I went Oath of Devotion, and Charisma is currently 15 (we rolled stats and I'm planning on bumping it soon) and we just hit lvl 10. So right now, I have a 10 foot range where everybody gets +2 to saves, immunity to charm, and immunity to fear. Is this too much?

[georgie_leech]

Unless you're fighting a clan of Vampires that relies on fear and charming abilities to fight their foes, probably not. There are a whole host of effects that don't care about either, clumping up like that is just begging for an AoE (half damage on a Save is still damage) and while the +2 to Saves can make an already good save very likely to work, bad saves are still really easy to bypass. Your friendly Wizard isn't escaping from a Web any time soon regardless of a Paladin being nearby.

[pwykersotz]

I've played as a Paladin and GM'd two and I think they're fine. Undoubtedly powerful, but they have an awesome way of encouraging teamwork. Also, I think your GM is suffering forum overhype. +2 to saves isn't even close to game altering on the GM side.

[MaxWilson]

So my DM and I were talking today, and he feels the my paladin's auras are just OP... he's been reading that paladins are pretty OP overall in this edition... +2 to saves, immunity to charm, and immunity to fear. Is this too much?

Nope, it's not too much. The best defense against an AoE is not an aura, it is being out of range. (E.g. don't get within 30' of a Medusa.) The paladin aura is a nice bonus to your last-ditch defense, but it's not something you want to go relying on in the first place. Even with your aura, you are probably more likely than not to fail your save against a simple caltrop (DC 15) let alone something like an illithid's Mind Blast, which means that even if you know an illithid is coming, your party is still better off dispersing so only one PC can be hit with Mind Blast rather than all clumping around the Paladin trying to soak in his aura.

The primary benefit from the aura goes to the paladin himself, and overall the feature is about as valuable IMO as Cunning Action on a rogue or Shadow Jump on a shadow monk. Very nice but not OP.

[joaber]

at lvl 10 a bard is conjuring volley, druid can be an elemental with immunity to most powerful effects and damage resistance. A gnome has advantage in half of ST at lvl 1. Barbarian have resistance to basically every damage at lvl 3. Shadow monks can stun at lvl 5 and teleport at will at lvl 6. A fighter GWM can do more than 100 of damage at lvl 5.

Paladin is a great class? yes
overpowered? no

[Citan]

So my DM and I were talking today, and he feels the my paladin's auras are just OP as all hell. I told him the range limitation on them was pretty balancing overall, and that there were several auras that were specific to an Oath, but he's been reading that paladins are pretty OP overall in this edition. So I wanted to get the opinions here. I went Oath of Devotion, and Charisma is currently 15 (we rolled stats and I'm planning on bumping it soon) and we just hit lvl 10. So right now, I have a 10 foot range where everybody gets +2 to saves, immunity to charm, and immunity to fear. Is this too much?

Is Paladin too powerful a a class? No.
With stupid official ruling about Aura of Protection?
Potentially yes, very much so.

Bring a group of Paladins together, one pure Paladin if you really wish so, other all multiclassed from Pally 6/7.

Bring any class into the mix (preferably Warlocks, Bards, Sorcerer, Clerics, Barbarian or Rogues though) to add many offense or defense goodies.
Those that rely on spells can wear a shield and get Shield Master to avoid any half-damage on a DEX spell (which is most IIRC).
Barbarian, Rogue, Monk and Ranger (but Ranger get it too late) also have class features that make them avoid any damage against DEX saves, not even talking about some others such as Barbarian's rage resistance.

Only environmental AOE may block them from a while, and even so...

10 feet wide means that each Pally could benefit from his own aura and, worst case, 2 other auras, for up to +15 if optimized, or more reasonably so +10 average.
When clumped together, well, I'm too lazy to do the maths, but I'm pretty sure it easily goes beyond 20 even with non-optimized characters.

So... Any non half-damage spell that directly target a creature basically won't work.

Spells like Spike Growth would work, but there are easy workarounds even if you can't target the caster, just levitate/fly around etc...

You can prevent them from moving with Walls of X and such...
Beyond that, only a handful of spells such as Cloudkill, Circle of Death or Cone of Cold can be used, but it would require a heavy spam of those to actually endanger a group of >4 Pallys.
Unless at least one of them casts Circle of Power. In which case you're ****ed. :)

Sooo... Basically, the only chance to reliably hit them really is rain them down with attacks (spells and weapons), preferably ranged, because it targets AC and they will have only a good, not great AC (unless they waste a good portion of their spells just for this, and even so).
Anything that enhance your abilities on this part (better hit, better damage, no cover, conjure allies with ranged attacsk/spells) will do good here. And obviously try to focus fire, maybe combined with a high-level Sleep to try and make a few unconscious (effectively dropping the Auras).
If there is something in D&d world like anesthesic poison (and why wouldn't it be) a high-skilled Sharpshooter with imbued arrows will be your best bet.

Otherwise, only a sound strategy with sufficient preparation time will give you victory. ^^

[JackPhoenix]

Is Paladin too powerful a a class? No.
With stupid official ruling about Aura of Protection?
Potentially yes, very much so.

Bring a group of Paladins together, one pure Paladin if you really wish so, other all multiclassed from Pally 6/7.


That ruling is no longer valid, the same effects don't stack

[Citan]

That ruling is no longer valid, the same effects don't stack
Ah? Cool. :)

Well, somewhere inside me is a little sad because I planned on creating a setting where a very secret Order of Paladins would rule out world balance, exacting punitive expeditions against whomever would threaten it.
But it's obviously better.

Could you plz source the "errata"?

[JackPhoenix]

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DMG_Errata.pdf

IIRC, the paladin aura was mentioned in the SA as something they will look into...apparently, they did

[Citan]

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DMG_Errata.pdf

IIRC, the paladin aura was mentioned in the SA as something they will look into...apparently, they did

Hey, thanks a bunch for the resource. It seems I missed it at the time. :)

[Ouranos]

Thanks guys. It wasn't quite enough for him so I basically have to "switch" auras. But, he made it a free action on my turn, and more than doubled the range for me so that'll still be useful.

[MaxWilson]

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DMG_Errata.pdf

IIRC, the paladin aura was mentioned in the SA as something they will look into...apparently, they did

I just noticed this one:

'Mage Furnishings (p. 300). A roll of 73 produces a sextant, not a sexton.'

Hahaha. :)