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View Full Version : I would like input on this archetype I created...



CartmanTuttle
2016-02-02, 12:29 AM
So, I came up with an idea for a Rogue Archetype. It took me a while to hammer this one out, but I think I got something here. This is where you all come in. I need other people's input to make sure that this is playtest ready, and would like any comments, criticisms, suggestions, and ideas you all might have. Thusly, I present to you...

New Rogue Archetype: The Operator
-Fighting Style: When you select this archetype at 3rd level, you choose one of the following Fighting Styles:
--Archery: You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.
--Defense: While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
--Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
--Two-Weapon Fighting: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
-Backstab: When you select this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the ability to apply your sneak attack when you use your reaction to make an attack of opportunity.
-Extra Attack: Beginning at 9th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
-Get Them While They're Down: Beginning at 13th level, whenever you make a ranged attack against a prone target, you do not have disadvantage due to them being prone.
-Expert Killer: Beginning at 17th level, whenever you deal damage from a weapon attack, if the attack isn't a sneak attack, you deal damage as though the attack were a critical hit. If the attack is a critical hit, then you roll double the damage dice again.

The point of the archetype was to try to make a pure damage-dealer Rogue that had more combat capability without feeling gimmicky.

Thoughts?

bid
2016-02-02, 12:52 AM
-Backstab: When you select this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the ability to apply your sneak attack when you use your reaction to make an attack of opportunity.

You can already do that, it's a different turn.

Anyway, just dip fighter 5 or grab crossbow expert. You'll pay the right penalty for those bonuses you want.

Rhaegar14
2016-02-02, 12:57 AM
-Backstab: When you select this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the ability to apply your sneak attack when you use your reaction to make an attack of opportunity.


This feature literally does nothing, because it's already something Rogues can do. Read the wording of Sneak Attack carefully: "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage..." Note that a reaction takes place during that creature's turn, so even if you used Sneak Attack on your own turn you get the extra damage again.

And it appears while I was writing this out I've been Shadow Monk'd, but my explanation is a little more specific so I'll leave it there.

As for the rest, seems overpowered. On a more thematic concern, Paladins, Rangers, and Fighters are the only ones who get Fighting Style. War Clerics don't get it, Valor Bards don't get it, Monks don't get it, Bladelocks don't get it, Bladesingers don't get it, and Barbarians don't get it. This is very intentional; it sets those three classes apart as the best-trained in weapon use.

I'm told that Extra Attack was included as a Rogue class feature in the playtest, and was later removed because their damage output was too high with both Sneak Attack and Extra Attack.

Get Them While They're Down seems to be an overly ranged-focused feature for a subclass that's meant to be "general combat effectiveness."

Expert Killer isn't a huge deal in a vacuum, but it's ripe for abuse if they get any source of extra damage dice, such as from a magic item or spell effect. However, it's also basically a pointless feature without Extra Attack, which I've already touched on the problems with.

Ninja_Prawn
2016-02-02, 05:14 AM
We do have a subforum for homebrew, you know.

And I agree with the above: this is overpowered, lacks conceptual coherence and can be much better represented by a rogue/fighter multiclass.

You can't start out saying "I want a class that is entirely focused on dealing damage" and expect things to turn out well. You're flying in the face of the system.

Hairfish
2016-02-02, 05:53 AM
Class specializations are supposed to include both combat abilities and non-combat abilities.

Douche
2016-02-02, 09:40 AM
Sounds like you just wanted to cover up all your perceived shortcomings of a rogue. Doesn't seem like it's balanced, you just changed things that you didn't like about being a rogue - like not having an opportunity for sneak attack & taking a crit instead. Or having disadvantage on ranged attack for prone targets.