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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next By Grabthar's Hammer, Let's Make A Paladin Oath



newsman77
2016-02-02, 06:46 AM
Me: "If I die here, I should get to come back as a Paladin... of Grabthar! By the sons of Warvan, you will be avenged."
DM: "I'll allow it!"

It all started with a few Galaxy Quest quotes thrown out during our latest 5e D&D session. Now I need your help. If my DM is going to allow a Paladin of Grabthar, how on earth do I build it, mechanically speaking? This would be the typical paladin, but we'll adjust the Oath features and tenants. I tried to look through the movie material, but there wasn't enough there for me to really match it up. I'm hoping to have something put together soon, so I can present it to the DM in a well thought out fashion that will go over pretty smoothly. After all, he's a big fan of Galaxy Quest as well. Here's my start:

Sacred Oath: Oath of Grabthar

Level 3: "What a Savings!"
You get a 10% discount when buying from vendors in your hometown or shops where you are revered.

Level 3: "Find It's Motivation. What Does It Want"
By studying your opponent, you can learn key aspects about him. The DM tells you 1 characteristics of your choice. Plus you can attempt an Insight check (DC 20) to learn one piece of crucial information about the target (ie, desires, how to sway his attitude toward friendly or hostile).

Level 7: "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"
When you or 1 ally within range (30 feet) would make a death save, the target can immediately spring back to his or her feet. You immediately stand up and heal to half your hit point maximum. You must finish a long rest before you can use this again.

Level 10: "Mak'tar Stealth Haze"
You can use your action to become invisible until you make an attack.

Level 15: "Omega 13"
Roll 3 d20's and save each roll. During the next 2 rounds, you may substitute any dice you rolled for any other attack, saving throw or ability check.
In addition, you are under the effect of the Haste spell for up to 1 minute.
This ability recharges on a short rest.


This is just a start, so please throw your two cents in. There's no wrong answer here. All advice is welcome and appreciated.

Amnoriath
2016-02-02, 07:16 AM
Well, first off you got the subclass levels wrong. Paladin's oath levels are 3, 7, 15, and 20. You don't have any tenets. In fact many of you subclass levels kind of sound like a tenet. You also either forgot or ignored key aspects that go in a Paladin oath. At level 3 they get at least one Channel Divinity power, it is almost always 2 actually. At the final level while you were close it is a slightly bigger transformation that takes a long rest to recover from. You also forgot their bonus spells.
As for the class itself aside from the structural errors. Your level 3 abilities seem more role-play oriented than crunch oriented except for the second half of the latter, but Insight should kind of do that already and I can't see this class making that roll without specific choices. The level 7 ability is fine but again its title sounds like a tenet. The intended level 15 ability is useful but not particularly synergistic. Then the intended level 20 ability is actually just about there it might just need a little tweaking and change it to a once per long rest.

Oramac
2016-02-02, 12:47 PM
In general, I agree with Amnoriath, though paragraphs would have helped. :P



Sacred Oath: Oath of Grabthar

You do need Tenets. I'm not terribly good at coming up with this sort of thing, but you could just combine the Tenets of the Oath of Vengeance ("you will be avenged!") and the Oath of Devotion ("Never give up! Never Surrender!").


Level 3: "What a Savings!"
You get a 10% discount when buying from vendors in your hometown or shops where you are revered.

I mean, thematically it fits the Galaxy Quest theme, but it's not really a Paladin-ish feature.


Level 3: "Find It's Motivation. What Does It Want"
By studying your opponent, you can learn key aspects about him. The DM tells you 1 characteristics of your choice. Plus you can attempt an Insight check (DC 20) to learn one piece of crucial information about the target (ie, desires, how to sway his attitude toward friendly or hostile).

This could be your Channel Divinity option, though it's basically the same as the Battlemaster Fighter ability.


Level 7: "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"
When you or 1 ally within range (30 feet) would make a death save, the target can immediately spring back to his or her feet. You immediately stand up and heal to half your hit point maximum. You must finish a long rest before you can use this again.

Healing for half your health on a death seems a bit much to me. I'd make it "heals for an amount equal to your total levels". Or maybe total levels times 2.


Level 10: "Mak'tar Stealth Haze"
You can use your action to become invisible until you make an attack.

I'd make it a bonus action, but it only lasts for one turn no matter what you do with it. That way you can cast a spell or attack or whatever, but it goes away at the end of your turn. Also, put a restriction on use like "Can only be used a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier".


Level 15: "Omega 13"
Roll 3 d20's and save each roll. During the next 2 rounds, you may substitute any dice you rolled for any other attack, saving throw or ability check.
In addition, you are under the effect of the Haste spell for up to 1 minute.
This ability recharges on a short rest.

I'd make the d20 rolls last a full minute and on a Long Rest. Otherwise, it looks good.

newsman77
2016-02-02, 12:54 PM
Thanks Oramac! That's the kinda of feedback I'm looking for. I've never really designed a subclass before, so I'm kinda out of my league here. Which is why I'm asking for help.

What kind of abilities would you put in there? What types of things fit the Paladin class and movie as well?

Oramac
2016-02-02, 01:47 PM
You're welcome! This is a fun thought experiment. Damn good thing I watched Galaxy Quest recently too (RIP Alan Rickman), else I'd have no idea what to do here.


What kind of abilities would you put in there? What types of things fit the Paladin class and movie as well?

Well, for Oath Spells, I'd go with these. Remember, the number is the level at which you get the spell, not the spells level. Also, I'm not really thinking about balance or anything here, just whatever might be thematically appropriate spells.

3rd: Disguise Self; Hunter's Mark
5th: Blur; Pass Without Trace
9th: Crusader's Mantle; Spirit Guardians
13th: Aura of Purity; Death Ward
17th: Hold Monster; Raise Dead

Each Oath has essentially a "Turn Thing" use for its Channel Divinity too. I'd probably just use the Oath of Devotion's Turn the Unholy. It seems to fit the best.

As for playing it, it feels kinda like a "stealth Pally" to me, so I'd go that route. Maybe pick a Greatsword for the "Avenged" feel, and pick up proficiency in Stealth too. Definitely find some Mithral armor ASAP too, so you don't have disadvantage on stealth checks.

Socko525
2016-02-03, 08:40 AM
Hmmm, I like everything so far. I assume the level 3 abilities are Channel Divinity?

Omega 13 might be a little too powerful for level 15, but I think some of it could be refluffed into the level 20 transformation ability...in fact maybe level 20 should be Omega 13 and how about this for level 15:

Level 15-"You shall be avenged!"-When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Then you'd just need to come up with spells...

newsman77
2016-02-03, 12:52 PM
Hmmm, I like everything so far. I assume the level 3 abilities are Channel Divinity?

Omega 13 might be a little too powerful for level 15, but I think some of it could be refluffed into the level 20 transformation ability...in fact maybe level 20 should be Omega 13 and how about this for level 15:

Level 15-"You shall be avenged!"-When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Then you'd just need to come up with spells...

Thank you all for the comments. I was trying to stick to the movie what I could, but perhaps the best way (as you've pointed out) is to used the movie quotes as perhaps some tenets and make the mechanics more D&D based. I really wanted to find some kind of damage mechanic to go in there as well, but just couldn't make it fit. I'm going to give that another try.

The Level 3 stuff could be the Channel Divinity... I didn't think of it that way, but it seems better now that you mention it.

For the tenets... I like "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" and "The Show Must Go On"

tieren
2016-02-03, 02:26 PM
Thank you all for the comments. I was trying to stick to the movie what I could, but perhaps the best way (as you've pointed out) is to used the movie quotes as perhaps some tenets and make the mechanics more D&D based. I really wanted to find some kind of damage mechanic to go in there as well, but just couldn't make it fit. I'm going to give that another try.

The Level 3 stuff could be the Channel Divinity... I didn't think of it that way, but it seems better now that you mention it.

For the tenets... I like "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" and "The Show Must Go On"

Where is the chant of strength?