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View Full Version : Grappler vs Spellcaster



Madbox
2016-02-02, 08:34 AM
I've been goofing around with ideas for a monk who does a lot of wrestling. One of my concerns is what happens in a fight vs a spellcasting class. Since grappling is an Athletics or Acrobatics contest, it would bypass things like Mage Armor or Shield of Faith, which is nice. But grappling doesn't affect their ability to cast spells.

...Or does it? According to the rules, spells with a somatic component require one hand free to make gestures. Spells with material components require a free hand to access the components, spellcasting focus, or component pouch. Verbal requires the ability to speak. How would you rule it if a character went for a grapple by saying "I try to grab them by the throat."? Would you rule that as preventing speech, and therefore stopping spells with verbal requirements? What about putting someone in a half-nelson (for non-wrestling fans, that's wrapping one arm under their armpit, back over their shoulder, gripping the back of their neck)? Since that binds up one arm, are they now unable to use spells that require both somatic and material components, since they only have one free arm? What about a full nelson (same as half, but now with both arms)? Are they unable to meet either requirement now, and am I allowed to attack since I've already specified that both of my arms are holding the wizard?

I'm interested in what you all would rule in these cases.

Sander
2016-02-02, 08:45 AM
Short answer? No.
Long answer? Well, I've not read up extensively on the subject, but if I had a player pulling sheenanigans like that, I wouldn't allow it. Grappling, afaik, doesn't specify anything regarding hindering spellcasting and allowing a player to detail his grab in such a way as to provide secondary effects - such as "no speaking" or "restraining both his arms" etc - would, in my opinion, grossly increase the power of grappling in general. You grab a wizard in my game, he'll likely fireball his own ass come hell or high waters. (Which, actually did happen once and it was awesome. Not so much for the grappling player, ofc, but still)

Douche
2016-02-02, 08:52 AM
The game is pretty boring when it comes to grappling. When you grapple someone, you stop them from moving. That's it. They can still attack, cast spells, make tea, or clip their toenails.

If you were grappling someone out of combat, then you'd be allowed to cover their mouth. That's more of a roleplaying opportunity.

In combat, I would suggest you buy yourself a bunch of ballgags. Your DM might allow you to make some sort of contested check to fasten the ballgag in the spellcasters mouth (this happened to me a few weeks ago when I tried to handcuff someone I had grappled in the midst of battle).. Just don't forget to pick up some whips & chains while you're at it.

Madbox
2016-02-02, 09:12 AM
Maybe I should change my idea from wrestler to cop. Replace the entertainer background with Urban Bounty Hunter or City Watch, and use your idea with handcuffs. Of course, RAW that also does nothing to prevent someone from using somatic or material components. Which annoys me, as the DMs I've had so far are exactly the type to say "Oh, the giant spider used Web on you, you can't move your arms for spells," even though the Restrained condition says nothing about that. Mater of fact, one specifically used that on me.

tieren
2016-02-02, 09:39 AM
Maybe I should change my idea from wrestler to cop. Replace the entertainer background with Urban Bounty Hunter or City Watch, and use your idea with handcuffs. Of course, RAW that also does nothing to prevent someone from using somatic or material components. Which annoys me, as the DMs I've had so far are exactly the type to say "Oh, the giant spider used Web on you, you can't move your arms for spells," even though the Restrained condition says nothing about that. Mater of fact, one specifically used that on me.

You could also pick up the mage slayer feat to let you get an extra attack on the caster if he tries to cast with you that close and advantage on savings throws. if you style yourself as a wrestler that specializes in anti casting moves it might be easier to convince the DM that the restraining hold you have on the caster impedes at least somatic components.

JackPhoenix
2016-02-02, 12:27 PM
You can take Grappler feat and pin the caster to give him (and you) restrained condition, even though it doesn't directly say so, the caster shouldn't have free hand for somatic components.