The Degenerate Simple Template-How much does it affect a creature?

[Thealtruistorc]

So I was looking through some books and came across something called the Degenerate template, which works as the advanced template in reverse (-1 CR, -4 to all ability scores).

I thought about this for a little while, and a question came to my mind about how much most monsters would be altered by this template. Would a degenerate bulette or worg be much weaker than its standard version? What about a more magical creature like a will-o-wisp or dragon? How much easier would a degenerate hydra be to fight?

I would like your thoughts on this matter. I plan to use this template on a rather powerful monster to make it more suitable and would like your advice.

[johnbragg]

I personally think the Advanced Template is not worth the +1 CR. I use it sometimes to balance a +1 template I suspect is too good.

Dropping the creatures' stats by 4, giving it a -2 on all rolls, doesn't do a whole lot to slow a high-CR creature down.

CR usually means a creature has a bunch of attacks, or useful SLAs, or SR or DR.

[ComaVision]

1. Apply template to a CR 1 monster.
2. Send an infinite amount against your first level party because it's a CR 0 encounter.
3. ??????
4. Profit

[Flickerdart]

1. Apply template to a CR 1 monster.
2. Send an infinite amount against your first level party because it's a CR 0 encounter.
3. ??????
4. Profit
The scale isn't 1 > 0. It's 1 > 1/2 > 1/3 > 1/4 > 1/8.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Degenerate dream creature incorporeal mindless undead, created with Destruction Retribution. Same blow-up damage, and 66% fewer ability scores to get a penalty to.

[johnbragg]

So I was looking through some books and came across something called the Degenerate template, which works as the advanced template in reverse (-1 CR, -4 to all ability scores).

I thought about this for a little while, and a question came to my mind about how much most monsters would be altered by this template. Would a degenerate bulette or worg be much weaker than its standard version? What about a more magical creature like a will-o-wisp or dragon? How much easier would a degenerate hydra be to fight?

I would like your thoughts on this matter. I plan to use this template on a rather powerful monster to make it more suitable and would like your advice.

CR is really designed to Template up, not down. PAizo's Young template fills a niche, but what I would do is take your Big Bad, and find a similar, lower-CR creature, refluff and maybe swap out some abilities, feats, etc.

You have a monster in mind. Can you tell us what it is, and people can bookdive for its already-existing baby brother? Maybe advancing baby brother with templates or class levels etc?

[atemu1234]

CR is really designed to Template up, not down. PAizo's Young template fills a niche, but what I would do is take your Big Bad, and find a similar, lower-CR creature, refluff and maybe swap out some abilities, feats, etc.

You have a monster in mind. Can you tell us what it is, and people can bookdive for its already-existing baby brother? Maybe advancing baby brother with templates or class levels etc?

I recommend this; otherwise you may kill your entire party of adventurers.