Force Blast Cantrip

[Keundt]

Any name ideas btw? I really enjoy the multiattack system. Making a single attack per turn seems boring to me, especially when the majority of a campaign takes place before 5th level. So this cantrip can help to make your combat a lot more fun.


Force Blast
Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous

You hurl a mote of energy at an opponent. You have two charges, which you may power into a single ranged spell attack or break them up into separate ranged spell attacks, which you may make any time during your turn if able (or treated as Extra Attack). Each charge deals 1d4 force damage. Any effect or feature that grants immunity to Magic Missile also applies to this spell.

At 5th level, you gain one charge and they turn into d6s (3d6). At 11th level, you gain two more charges (5d6). At 17th level, your charges' damage dice turn into d8s (5d8).


Comment your thoughts! :D

[RakiReborn]

Im not saying this one is overpowered or not, but am just thinking of the combo with Hex. This one gives you two attacks at level 1, so you can deal 2d4+2d6 (12) at level 1 if it is available at 1st level. Warlocks can get agonizing blast at second level, which usually gets eldritch blast to about 1d10+1d6+3 (12), but that goes online a level later and you can target only one creature until lvl5, when EB gets ahead in damage. Apart from that, geting two attacks while every other character gets one until 5th level is pretty good, even with low damage. It gives a lot more variaty than any other martial or even spellcaster gets.
Theae are just some observations you might want to consider :)

[DracoKnight]

Im not saying this one is overpowered or not, but am just thinking of the combo with Hex. This one gives you two attacks at level 1, so you can deal 2d4+2d6 (12) at level 1 if it is available at 1st level. Warlocks can get agonizing blast at second level, which usually gets eldritch blast to about 1d10+1d6+3 (12), but that goes online a level later and you can target only one creature until lvl5, when EB gets ahead in damage. Apart from that, geting two attacks while every other character gets one until 5th level is pretty good, even with low damage. It gives a lot more variaty than any other martial or even spellcaster gets.
Theae are just some observations you might want to consider :)

Emphasis mine.

Not to sound nitpicky, but green-flame blade does attack multiple targets, and it's an at will ability that arcane casters (and arcana clerics) have access to from level 1. Now that second target gets hit automatically (something only done by magic missile prior to now), but the damage is also significantly lower. So, (personally) I think that the two attacks at 1d4 is fine but there should be a clause that conditions the subsequent charges.

[Keundt]

Emphasis mine.

Not to sound nitpicky, but green-flame blade does attack multiple targets, and it's an at will ability that arcane casters (and arcana clerics) have access to from level 1. Now that second target gets hit automatically (something only done by magic missile prior to now), but the damage is also significantly lower. So, (personally) I think that the two attacks at 1d4 is fine but there should be a clause that conditions the subsequent charges.

Is the magic missile immunity a worthy clause? I've only witnessed it once in a campaign, with my monk deflecting a sorcerer pc in an arena. Also, I thought that being behind on damage a bit compared with EB and FB until 11th level would also help. With 2d4 you can do one more damage on a single target, but never deal 9 or 10. The 3d6 at 5th could do up to 18 damage, which is higher by 1 on a single target, and again never deal 19 or 20. At 11th and 17th this spell is on par, and any possible advantage at this point seems inconsequential.

[Submortimer]

Any name ideas btw? I really enjoy the multiattack system. Making a single attack per turn seems boring to me, especially when the majority of a campaign takes place before 5th level. So this cantrip can help to make your combat a lot more fun.


Force Blast
Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous

You hurl a mote of energy at an opponent. You have two charges, which you may power into a single ranged spell attack or break them up into separate ranged spell attacks, which you may make any time during your turn if able (or treated as Extra Attack). Each charge deals 1d4 force damage. Any effect or feature that grants immunity to Magic Missile also applies to this spell.

At 5th level, you gain one charge and they turn into d6s (3d6). At 11th level, you gain two more charges (5d6). At 17th level, your charges' damage dice turn into d8s (5d8).


Comment your thoughts! :D

Yeah, this is too.much. At level 17. You get 5 attacks, each dealing a D8 of damage. That's amazing.

Here's how you should balance it out: step the damage die down one step from EB (D8), add an extra blast at 5, 11, and 17, and tack on a rider of some sort to make it different.

[Keundt]

Yeah, this is too.much. At level 17. You get 5 attacks, each dealing a D8 of damage. That's amazing.

Here's how you should balance it out: step the damage die down one step from EB (D8), add an extra blast at 5, 11, and 17, and tack on a rider of some sort to make it different.

Fire bolt and eldritch blast deal 4d10 at 17th level, which I'm pretty sure is equal to 5d8?

How about 2d4 (8), 3d6 (18), 4d6 (24), and 4d10 (40)?
Or 2d4 (8), 3d6 (18), 3d8 (24), and 4d10 (40)?
FB/EldB does 1d10 (10), 2d10 (20), 3d10 (30), and 4d10 (40).
Current is 2d4 (8), 3d6 (18), 5d6 (30), and 5d8 (40).

The design philosophy is to have more action economy, while having a little less damage until 11th level when it's supposed to be on par with the other two cantrips.

[DracoKnight]

Is the magic missile immunity a worthy clause? I've only witnessed it once in a campaign, with my monk deflecting a sorcerer pc in an arena. Also, I thought that being behind on damage a bit compared with EB and FB until 11th level would also help. With 2d4 you can do one more damage on a single target, but never deal 9 or 10. The 3d6 at 5th could do up to 18 damage, which is higher by 1 on a single target, and again never deal 19 or 20. At 11th and 17th this spell is on par, and any possible advantage at this point seems inconsequential.

My apologies. That's what I get for responding to a post early in the morning. I meant that there should be a clause along the lines of:

"You gain a second charge, if you succeed on your first attack roll."

For all of your subsequent charges should follow the same clause. If you want to keep the spell at its current power level.

[MoleMage]

Fire bolt and eldritch blast deal 4d10 at 17th level, which I'm pretty sure is equal to 5d8?

How about 2d4 (8), 3d6 (18), 4d6 (24), and 4d10 (40)?
Or 2d4 (8), 3d6 (18), 3d8 (24), and 4d10 (40)?
FB/EldB does 1d10 (10), 2d10 (20), 3d10 (30), and 4d10 (40).
Current is 2d4 (8), 3d6 (18), 5d6 (30), and 5d8 (40).

The design philosophy is to have more action economy, while having a little less damage until 11th level when it's supposed to be on par with the other two cantrips.

Convention is to use average values rather than maximum when balancing damage. So 2d4 is 2.5 + 2.5 = 5, while 1d8 is 4.5. They have the same maximum, but since 2d4 has a higher minimum, it does "more" damage.

It's also worth noting that a larger pool of smaller die (assuming the same total average) does more consistent damage, as the probability skews more towards the average the more dice are in the pool. That's one reason why 2d6 greatswords are sometimes preferred over 1d12 greataxes, another being of course the half-point higher average damage. Since the sword does more reliable damage, you are less likely to be in a situation where your dice betray you.

[Keundt]

Convention is to use average values rather than maximum when balancing damage. So 2d4 is 2.5 + 2.5 = 5, while 1d8 is 4.5. They have the same maximum, but since 2d4 has a higher minimum, it does "more" damage.

It's also worth noting that a larger pool of smaller die (assuming the same total average) does more consistent damage, as the probability skews more towards the average the more dice are in the pool. That's one reason why 2d6 greatswords are sometimes preferred over 1d12 greataxes, another being of course the half-point higher average damage. Since the sword does more reliable damage, you are less likely to be in a situation where your dice betray you.

Yeah, I followed the advice of a guy on reddit and made a change. If only utility could be measured this way.

So the current Force Blast has an average of 5, 10.5, 17.5, and 22.5. Eldritch Blast is 5.5, 11, 16.5, and 22. To balance the 11th and 17th level averages, they would be lowered to 4d6 and 4d8. Force Blast then becomes 5, 10.5, 14, and 18. When using this cantrip as a main offensive attack, I guess it loses its grip after 11th level, but if a person likes to use the spell, go for it. But then again, EB requires all attack rolls, while Force Blast can act as a Fire Bolt or an Eldritch Blast, so the damage comes at a cost.