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View Full Version : Optimization Looking for some 5E advice to boosting my AC. Any suggestions?



Odessa333
2016-02-03, 02:45 PM
Topic. I'm a level 3 college of lore bard, and our group is running the Lost Mines of Phandelver. Besides my bard, we have a heavily armored Paladin with a shield (a variant human with a feat for 3 DR on most weapons), a heavy armor fighter with a shield, and a Wizard who has (spoilers!) claimed the glass staff of glassstaff with boosted AC and defensive spells galore. The DM rolls quite well (today an orc rolled an attack with disadvantage and rolled a nat 20 twice) and my squishy character was brought down in the orc's surprise round.

I don't think my AC is 'bad' on it's own. A 15 AC (Studded Leather armor, and a 16 DEX) isn't the worst. But with the defenses of the rest of the party being so high, plus add in me being the main healer, I'm targeted a lot. Cutting words helps a bit (when I can act) but it runs out quickly.

tl;dr I'd really like to find some way to boost my AC. Any ideas?

Oramac
2016-02-03, 02:50 PM
The first thing that comes to mind is to multiclass into Fighter for Medium armor and shield proficiency.

Trancekat
2016-02-03, 03:00 PM
tl;dr I'd really like to find some way to boost my AC. Any ideas?

Take a level of Sorcerer (should be easy since you're a Bard and should have a high Cha). That gives the option to take dragon sorcerer origin for an AC calc of 13 + Dex instead of armor + Dex. The real value comes from getting access to Sorcerer level 1 spells -namely- Shield. A +5 to AC as a reaction is fantastic.

Of course you could change your character completely and go Bladesinger. An optimized Bladesinger can have an AC of 16 +5 from Shield at level 3. Another option is to be a Monk/Wizard; you could have an AC of 10+Dex (3) +Int (3) +Wis(2) +Shield(5)=23, but your stats will be fairly poor overall.

Hope this helps,
TK

thebiglost1
2016-02-03, 03:01 PM
Positioning and attempting to stealth prior to a possible combat situation. Don't be afraid to use the Dodge action on your turn if you find yourself surrounded. Lucky rolls not withstanding a well timed dodge taken while the rest of the group smashes face is not a bad plan.
You stated your the healer so keeping yourself alive should be paramount.

Daishain
2016-02-03, 03:11 PM
Couple options to boost AC: multiclass to a fighter type for medium armor, multiclass to dragon sorc for permanent mage armor, pick up a shield, pick up Shield (the spell). Or you could stay the course and focus on pumping your Dexterity.

eastmabl
2016-02-03, 03:20 PM
Positioning and attempting to stealth prior to a possible combat situation. Don't be afraid to use the Dodge action on your turn if you find yourself surrounded. Lucky rolls not withstanding a well timed dodge taken while the rest of the group smashes face is not a bad plan.
You stated your the healer so keeping yourself alive should be paramount.

^^This. You're a lore bard --- you don't get hit with a club. You sing songs about the people who get hit with the clubs.

MaxWilson
2016-02-03, 03:23 PM
tl;dr I'd really like to find some way to boost my AC. Any ideas?

If you can stand to play a cleric, you could take Life Cleric 1 for Heavy Armor proficiency, access to Bless/Shield of Faith/Command/Sanctuary, and double-strength Aura of Vitality (once you hit Lore Bard 6). Two excellent defensive options when you are in trouble:

Dodge + Shield of Faith gives you AC 22 and disadvantage to enemies. Combined with Cutting Words should make you extremely tanky. You still get a reaction attack.

Sanctuary combines well with anything. No concentration cost. E.g. use your Athletics Expertise to grapple a monster and then Sanctuary yourself with your free hand (can't use a shield for this maneuver). You should be about 75% immune to the monster's attacks, and the rest of the party can kill it easily.

Beware: the above is theorycraft not experience because I can't stand to play clerics.

In practice, can I just second the guy who mentioned stealth? An excellent use of your action as a Lore Bard is to Hide. :)

Sir cryosin
2016-02-03, 03:43 PM
If your facing range attacks take cover 1/2 cover add 2 to your ac and 3/4 cover adds 3 to ac. At lv 6 grab the spell armor of agathys cast it in your highest slot and watch the monsters think twice befor hitting you.

Vogonjeltz
2016-02-03, 06:09 PM
tl;dr I'd really like to find some way to boost my AC. Any ideas?

I'd recommend positioning yourself somewhere behind the fighter and paladin, preferably in such a way that enemies can't glide past them to reach you. (i.e. Be more than 30 feet from an enemy).

HoarsHalberd
2016-02-03, 06:37 PM
If your facing range attacks take cover 1/2 cover add 2 to your ac and 3/4 cover adds 3 to ac. At lv 6 grab the spell armor of agathys cast it in your highest slot and watch the monsters think twice befor hitting you.

3/4 cover adds 5 to AC btw.

Sir cryosin
2016-02-03, 07:23 PM
3/4 cover adds 5 to AC btw.

Ya I just got home and read my screen and saw it sorry for the wrong info

ShikomeKidoMi
2016-02-03, 10:11 PM
Are you using feats: Have you considered spending an ASI on Medium Armor Proficiency?

It will kind of waste a couple of your points of Dex, but Half-Plate+Shield+Dex over 14= AC 19, which is a 4 point increase.

Alternately, spend one of your chances to learn another classes' spells on Mirror Image. It's better than AC, when you have time to cast it.

PoeticDwarf
2016-02-04, 05:54 AM
On level six you can take armor of aagathys and shield. You could take 2 warlock dip for hellish rebuke, armor if aagathys and eldritch blast. If ppl get dmg when they attack you they won't do it again

Mhl7
2016-02-04, 06:06 AM
The easiest thing that comes to my mind is having your ally use the Staff of Defense on you each day to cast mage armour. Is is just one charge out of 10 and it recharges 1d6+4 each down, tell him not to be greedy.

It will give you an armour of 13 + Dex for 8 hour which is concentration free and you can go armour free. It is just a +1, but it is easy and you don't have to multiclass or invest ASI.

EvilAnagram
2016-02-04, 09:36 AM
But with the defenses of the rest of the party being so high, plus add in me being the main healer, I'm targeted a lot.

Those are reasons why you shouldn't be targeted a lot.

Honestly, stay out of combat. You have nothing that benefits from being in combat, so keep away from the baddies and let other people take the hits. 15 AC is more than sufficient for your role, and all of the suggestions I'm seeing would delay your spell progression or weaken your casting.

Citan
2016-02-04, 10:11 AM
Hi OP :)

For lvl 1 dips, I second Life Cleric (if you have STR enough or you're mainly healing people) or Draconic Sorcerer (because you get extra HP, effective 16 AC whatever happens and Shield).

For lvl 2 dips, you have...
Fighter: one of the best options for defense: medium armor and shields (you seem you avoid the front lines anyways, so you can go free hand + shield) bringing effective +3 AC immediately (Defense style and Shield), + 4 later. AND you get Action Surge so you can double cast spells when it really counts.
Paladin: probably the best option overall: you get the same proficiencies as Fighter, but you loses only 1 lvl of spellcasting and you get pretty useful buffs for you and party (Bless, Shield of Faith) as well as control/utility (Command can save people ;)).
Warlock: somewhat different alternative: free Mage Armor and lvl1 False Life invocations, Armor of Agathys that will be useful in Bard's higher slots, Hex if you plan on using offensive cantrips or ranged attacks AND 2 lvl1 short-rest slots that can always be put to good use.
Rogue: this is often a very good dip for any build, including Bard-based ones. Unfortunately, in your case, the only benefit is Cunning Action. Dodge as bonus action is great, but probably not enough to make it worth 2 non-caster levels.

I don't recommend going further if you don't have a specific goal in mind, but hey, just for your information. :)
For lvl 3 dips you get many many strong options.
Sorcerer: brings lvl2 defensive spells, Blur and Mirror Image. Mirror Image is not great for you, Blur much better. But hey, worst case you can have both active so... You also get 3 MP points to play with (take Subtle and Quicken).
Rogue: Arcane Trickster will give you the most value here: one lvl caster worth, nice wizard cantrips, Shield, in addition to the lvl 2 benefits.
Warlock: main benefit here is Chain Tome: get a magic resistant familiar and put it in your clothes. :) Your short-rest slots also get lvl2, which synergizes well with many useful Bard spells.
[Fighter]: Eldricht Knight, same thing as Arcane Trickster: all benefits described before + cantrips + Shield + 1 lvl spellcasting.

So, what to do?
Easiest way to go is imo Life Cleric 1. 90% of its benefits are directly useful to you and the impact is minor.

If you are ready to take 2 levels, Paladin is the best overall: you forego "healing bonus" from Life Cleric and "Action Surge" from Fighter, but get basically every other features that you want from BOTH classes.

If you'd be ready to go as far as taking 3 levels, the two best choices would imo be...
Either lvl 3 Eldricht Knight: you get a few useful spells, medium armor and shield, and Action Surge.
Or Life Cleric 1 + Rogue 2:defense spells and heavy armor + Dodge as bonus action: you are now much better at protecting yourself, you can Dodge while still casting spells (better than Fighter/Paladin) AND you don't block your concentration slot (better than Blur/Shield of Faith).

Hope that helps. Have fun :)

endur
2016-02-04, 11:30 PM
I will second and third the suggestions of letting others stand adjacent to the bad guys.

If you want a feat suggestion, lucky can ensure that you will rarely if ever get critted by bad guys (make the GM re-roll critical hits).

As a bard, you can sing songs about the cowardly bad guys that are afraid to fight the armored paladin and instead focus their attacks on the defenseless bard.

Sigreid
2016-02-04, 11:48 PM
Couple options to boost AC: multiclass to a fighter type for medium armor, multiclass to dragon sorc for permanent mage armor, pick up a shield, pick up Shield (the spell). Or you could stay the course and focus on pumping your Dexterity.

Add to that that a bard with shield mastery and expertise in athletics would make an excellent battle field controller, even if he ran out of spells.

MaxWilson
2016-02-05, 12:00 AM
Rogue: this is often a very good dip for any build, including Bard-based ones. Unfortunately, in your case, the only benefit is Cunning Action. Dodge as bonus action is great, but probably not enough to make it worth 2 non-caster levels.

I presume you meant "Dash as a bonus action"?

Citan
2016-02-05, 08:20 AM
I presume you meant "Dash as a bonus action"?
Errr, you're right, dang. Seems I mixed in my memory all abilities provided by Rogue's Cunning Action (Dash/Disengage/Hide) and the ones provided by Monk (Dash/Disengage/Dodge).

Thanks for the correction on such an important point. :=)
(although, technically the point remains at heart: with expertise in Stealth, while surely not as easy/automatic to enable as Dodge, there will probably be many occasions where you can Hide from enemy, providing disadvantage to its attacks. ;))

HoarsHalberd
2016-02-05, 12:51 PM
Errr, you're right, dang. Seems I mixed in my memory all abilities provided by Rogue's Cunning Action (Dash/Disengage/Hide) and the ones provided by Monk (Dash/Disengage/Dodge).

Thanks for the correction on such an important point. :=)
(although, technically the point remains at heart: with expertise in Stealth, while surely not as easy/automatic to enable as Dodge, there will probably be many occasions where you can Hide from enemy, providing disadvantage to its attacks. ;))

If you can hide from an enemy it gets a lot more that disadvantage. It has no idea where you are and hence must guess which square you are, and will then get disadvantage if it even picks the right square. However this relies on you being able to prevent the enemy from seeing you, which is very difficult under most circumstances. (You can't just take the hide action for free, you have to have a means of hiding.)

Fumble Jack
2016-02-05, 01:04 PM
I've played a lore bard & they are fun, but you are not meant for frontline combat. If you can play to your strengths with your cantrips, such as vicious mockery or minor illusion, it can help a lot. One example make the most heavily armored party member, look like the most squishy.

You have a decent dex, if combat is something you have to fight in, pick up a crossbow and stay back from the frontline. Even better if you pick up a fighter level & some medium armor.