Better name for Knowledge (local)

[gadren]

I feel like people often get confused by the name of "knowledge (local)", and was trying to think of what a better name would be knowledge (urban)? Knowledge (civilizations)?

Any suggestions are welcome.

EDIT: I am referring to the core rules description, and not the Forgotten Realms variant where different knowledge (local)'s need to be taken for each region.

[Genth]

Knowledge (Plot Device)? :wink:

[gadren]

Knowledge (Plot Device)? :wink:
I think that covers a different field. :-P

[inuyasha]

I think Knowledge (Urban) or Knowledge (Gossip) with the added claus that you must have stayed in an area for at least a week before making skill checks would be appropriate.

[johnbragg]

Knowledge(Sylvandale), or whatever your placename is.

Knowledge(Gotham) tells you who all the crimelords are and the bad streets and which precincts are more and less corrupt, and which sewers come directly out of Arkham and which ones have to make a connection somewhere.

Go to Noirtown, and all that gets you a cup of coffee and maybe the DM lets you count half of those ranks as Streetwise.

[Fitz10019]

How about Knowledge (Locale)?

There's nothing wrong with "Knowledge (local)" as long as everyone understands that as PCs you fill it in with a place, and as DMs you ask "Does anyone have Knowledge (Candlekeep)?" References to "Knowledge (local)" should only occur in the book. At the table, it should always be more specific.

But here are some alternatives:
Knowledge (Hometown)
Knowledge (M'neighborhood)
Knowledge ([specify city or locale])
Knowledge ([specify city or locale and refer to this knowledge thusly hereafter])

[Flickerdart]

There's nothing wrong with "Knowledge (local)" as long as everyone understands that as PCs you fill it in with a place, and as DMs you ask "Does anyone have Knowledge (Candlekeep)?"

This is only true in 3.0 and Faerun. In the game at large, Local does not break down into sub-knowledges. The same way that Knowledge (Arcana) gives you both dragons and constructs, Knowledge (Local) gives you everything from its list. Legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids. Of everywhere.

[gadren]

I am referring to the core rules description, and not the Forgotten Realms variant where different knowledge (local)'s need to be taken for each region.

[illyahr]

Knowledge (local) is also used to identify humanoids, remember. It doesn't necessarily mean an actual location, hence the confusion with the name.

[Zaydos]

I keep being tempted to say "roll it in with Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) and call it Knowledge (Civilization) or Knowledge (Society)".

Really, though, there's a half dozen slight disconnects in Kno (Local). One is that in 3.0 it was locale specific. Another is that it serves as both 'Streetwise Knowledge as opposed to Knowledge of High Society' and general knowledge about societies.

[Troacctid]

Knowledge(Sylvandale), or whatever your placename is.


There's nothing wrong with "Knowledge (local)" as long as everyone understands that as PCs you fill it in with a place, and as DMs you ask "Does anyone have Knowledge (Candlekeep)?" References to "Knowledge (local)" should only occur in the book. At the table, it should always be more specific.


Well I was going to say that Knowledge (Local) isn't that bad, but apparently people are confused even in this very thread, so maybe it is that bad.

[nedz]

Profession (Alcoholic) - oh, not that kind of Local.


I keep being tempted to say "roll it in with Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) and call it Knowledge (Civilization) or Knowledge (Society)".

Either of these basically, though Knowledge (Geography) should overlap.


Well I was going to say that Knowledge (Local) isn't that bad, but apparently people are confused even in this very thread, so maybe it is that bad.

I have hit this problem in a real game too.

[LudicSavant]

Knowledge (Humanoids)
Knowledge (Anthropology)
Knowledge (Cultures)
Knowledge (History) (this is what 4e and 5e calls its Local/History/Nobility menagerie)

[Flickerdart]

I keep being tempted to say "roll it in with Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) and call it Knowledge (Civilization) or Knowledge (Society)".

I combine Nobility & Royalty, History, Architecture & Engineering, and Local into Knowledge (Society) - they're all just fluff skills anyway.

Geography falls under Knowledge (Wilderness) along with Nature and Dungeoneering. My skills list is very short indeed.

[Zaydos]

Either of these basically, though Knowledge (Geography) should overlap.

D&D Knowledge (Geography) is more Knowledge (Geology) and closer to Kno (Nature) than Kno (Local), yes the name is confusing.


I combine Nobility & Royalty, History, Architecture & Engineering, and Local into Knowledge (Society) - they're all just fluff skills anyway.

Geography falls under Knowledge (Wilderness) along with Nature and Dungeoneering. My skills list is very short indeed.

Personally I'd probably keep Dungeoneering separate since it doubles as Kno (Underdark) and Kno (Aberrant things man was not meant to know) which are very separate from Kno (Nature), but I can see that little house rule.

[Flickerdart]

Personally I'd probably keep Dungeoneering separate since it doubles as Kno (Underdark) and Kno (Aberrant things man was not meant to know) which are very separate from Kno (Nature), but I can see that little house rule.
Yeah, I'm not terribly concerned with granularity, and more with making the game less obscene for anyone without 20 skill points per level. The way I see it, someone who doesn't want their character to know about crawlies can just not roll Knowledge checks when the crawlies show up.

For Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, arcana is always an option (or in my case, Knowledge (Magic) which lumps in Spellcraft).

Naturally, Psicraft and Knowledge (Psionics) are folded into Knowledge (crystals).

[martixy]

D&D Knowledge (Geography) is more Knowledge (Geology) and closer to Kno (Nature) than Kno (Local), yes the name is confusing.



Personally I'd probably keep Dungeoneering separate since it doubles as Kno (Underdark) and Kno (Aberrant things man was not meant to know) which are very separate from Kno (Nature), but I can see that little house rule.

The rule of thumb is: Keep critter-identifier skills separate. They possess a variety of significant mechanical uses. There's 6 of 'em.

Other knowledges have also been known to have obscure or niche uses. My favourite being this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sacred-geometry) weird, but amazing feat.

From a game perspective Knowledge (specific place) only works in a specific type of geographically constrained campaign. So unless you play in such a campaign, that interpretation is horrible.
Of course everyone is free to define their own idea of what it covers.

As for other names: I really don't think there's a better word for it(based on how I define the skill at least).
And how I define it is basically the body of knowledge needed to pass as a local: Customs, beliefs, local landmarks, etc... (Knowing about that old abandoned tower in the forest, knowing of the existence of the local thieves guild, knowing not to go near the north end of the docks after dark, to not badmouth orcs in public, that the weekend market closes after noon, that warehouse fire last year that bankrupted X trading company. . . . . . . . . . .)
But... options are: Community, Culture, Society.

[Obsessionist]

I'm running a campaign right now that (thus far) has been contained in an isolated city, separated for thousands of years from the world at large. They think they're the only sentient beings in the universe. Which, of course, makes Knowledge(Local) seem absurd, when it's really Knowledge(Known World), and it's really used as Knowledge(Have you heard of this new bard? He had this great song...).

[Fitz10019]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had stumbled into a closed meeting of RAW enthusiasts. Carry on.
[Historical note: Living Greyhawk (where I cut my teeth on D&D) also broke K:L into specific locales]

[Inevitability]

Perhaps follow 4e's example and rename it 'Streetwise'?

[Flickerdart]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had stumbled into a closed meeting of RAW enthusiasts. Carry on.
[Historical note: Living Greyhawk (where I cut my teeth on D&D) also broke K:L into specific locales]
RAW and RAI. Otherwise, Faerun wouldn't need to specifically make a rule to break things up.

[gadren]

Perhaps follow 4e's example and rename it 'Streetwise'?
I considered that, but Local covers a lot of stuff that doesnt really fall under that label

[Jeff the Green]

Knowledge (Anthropology)

I like this. It covers identifying humanoids (physical anthropology); legends, laws, customs, and traditions (sociocultural anthropology); and personalities and inhabitants (not really a subfield, but something you pick up).

[LudicSavant]

I like this. It covers identifying humanoids (physical anthropology); legends, laws, customs, and traditions (sociocultural anthropology); and personalities and inhabitants (not really a subfield, but something you pick up).

Pretty much.

[Troacctid]

I think Streetwise actually works pretty well.

[Extra Anchovies]

Here's an idea:
Create Knowledge (Medicine), give it all the functions of Heal, move identifying humanoids from Local to Medicine, and move identifying giants and monstrous humanoids from Nature to Medicine. Divide the rest of Local between Knowledge (Geography) and Gather Information, renaming the latter to Streetwise (and make it Wis-based; it's easy to get people to talk, but it's hard to pick out the truth from the hearsay).