AL Swiss Army Build

[Nicodiemus]

Ok. So my Swashbuckling Bladesinger got dropped by a couple of wights at the hands of a vengeful DM and I need to bring a new character next week. Since AL rosters are so unpredictable, what's the best utility build to cover all contingencies. Little bit of healing, decent sneak, combat capable....? Show me the craziness, please

Level 9

[Dralnu]

Little bit of healing, decent sneak, combat capable....? Show me the craziness, please

Level 9

Paladin has some healing (lay on hands, some healing spells), great party utility due to auras, very strong damage dealer and can be tanky. Not very stealthy with a STR build but definitely possible with a DEX build with a rapier.

Cleric has the best healing, can have sneak (trickery domain), has plenty of avenues in combat from support (Bless and stuff) to blasting (light / tempest domains) to smashing (war). Very flexible class.

Bard has good healing, lots of party support with bardic inspiration and support spells, very flexible building. All the colleges are good, Lore / War / Sword, depends how you want to play. Pick up spells from other lists based on what your group needs and what you think is fun.

If I had to blind pick a class to fit into a random group, that could heal / sneak / combat, it would certainly be Bard. They can do all those things and more, and you have the flexibility to take the class however you need to.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Ok. So my Swashbuckling Bladesinger got dropped by a couple of wights at the hands of a vengeful DM and I need to bring a new character next week. Since AL rosters are so unpredictable, what's the best utility build to cover all contingencies. Little bit of healing, decent sneak, combat capable....? Show me the craziness, please

Level 9

Air Genasi Knowledge Cleric 7/ Rogue 2

Dump str, int, and cha while boosting Dex/Con/Wis.

Dumping int makes for a hilariously fun explination of "I'm only the smartest when my deity wants me to be"... You will be asked to make Int checks since you are a knowledge cleric... :p

Light Armor + shield + help action or sacred flame

Command is a great spell and your thought reading will help you infiltrate places.

Edit

Next level pick up a level of cleric, +Wis to sacred flame is nice.

After that go more cleric or go fighter 5 (archery style, AK?) so that if you need to, you can easily pick up a bow and be decent (note: accurate) with it.

Action: Help (ally has advantage in next attack)
Bonus Action Disengage

[bid]

Little bit of healing, decent sneak, combat capable....? Show me the craziness, please

Level 9
EK 5 / nature cleric 4, hill dwarf Dex14/Con16/Wis20
Shillelagh 1d8+7 (x2), 90 hp, AC18 breastplate/shield
You upcast aid.
Your target is cleric 6 for dampen element.

If you tank, you will want BB and warcaster.
Skill monkey-wise, you only have guidance and enhance ability.

[SharkForce]

i'm not *super* familiar with AL, but i could've swore "making a new level 9 character" is not something that happens in AL.

are you *sure* you're in an AL game?

[GodslayerINC]

i'm not *super* familiar with AL, but i could've swore "making a new level 9 character" is not something that happens in AL.

are you *sure* you're in an AL game?


You sir are correct. When death happens in Adventure League one of 4 things happens. (If the party doesn't have Raise Dead)

Create a New 1st-Level Character.
Dead Character Pays for Raise Dead.
Character’s Party Pays for Raise Dead.
Faction Charity (Not available after level 4)

[eastmabl]

Without express permission (like with SCAG was released), players cannot rebuild their characters after level 4.

Are you looking for a good level 1 character that's a swiss army knife?

[Corran]

So if a character dies at 9 level, and his group are all 9 level, you mean to tell me that he has to start with a 1st level character? And AL is suposed to playtest things? How is that balanced or even fun? Anyway, that was off topic, so sorry about that.

[SharkForce]

AL is not supposed to playtest anything.

also, if you have a group, why on earth are you playing in the AL when you could instead be playing in a home game where your DM doesn't have to follow the dumb rules as well as the good ones (of course, precisely which rules are dumb and which are good is largely a matter of opinion).

[eastmabl]

So if a character dies at 9 level, and his group are all 9 level, you mean to tell me that he has to start with a 1st level character? /snip How is that balanced or even fun?

In living campaigns like Adventurer's League or Greyhawk Reborn, you can have a regular gaming group, but you don't need to. The benefit of this campaign is that you bring your character to other tables which use the same rules and play without any questions. Why?

All characters start at level 1 character and are built by the same rules that everyone else in the campaign builds their characters. As you find loot, magic items and level up, you keep documentation which substantiates how you got all this stuff. Thus, when the OP sits down with a level 9 bladesinger, the DM or other players shouldn't have questions about whether a player doesn't abide by the rules of the campaign.

One of the rules of the campaign is that death is a real thing, but can be overcome easily enough. If you or the party has 500 gp at your disposal, you can be raised from the dead easily enough. A 9th level character ought to have this coinage at his disposal, or at the very least be able to call on the rest of the party.

However, if your character dies and isn't raised, you get to start back again at level 1. Thems the brakes.

[Corran]

In living campaigns like Adventurer's League or Greyhawk Reborn, you can have a regular gaming group, but you don't need to. The benefit of this campaign is that you bring your character to other tables which use the same rules and play without any questions. Why?

All characters start at level 1 character and are built by the same rules that everyone else in the campaign builds their characters. As you find loot, magic items and level up, you keep documentation which substantiates how you got all this stuff. Thus, when the OP sits down with a level 9 bladesinger, the DM or other players shouldn't have questions about whether a player doesn't abide by the rules of the campaign.

One of the rules of the campaign is that death is a real thing, but can be overcome easily enough. If you or the party has 500 gp at your disposal, you can be raised from the dead easily enough. A 9th level character ought to have this coinage at his disposal, or at the very least be able to call on the rest of the party.
Gotcha.


However, if your character dies and isn't raised, you get to start back again at level 1. Thems the brakes. This is hillarious, and without any purpose or meaning. In fact it is a rule that consists only of negative reprecursions for the game, and not one positive. Anyway, I dont play in AL and I always insist about common xp values in my home games, and I am still derailing this thread, so I will just hush now.

[Nicodiemus]

That is all news to me. I've only been playing AL for about a year and this is only the first time I've come across the situation. I've seen other players come in with new characters after death at our milestone level which is from where I'm basing my conclusion. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the DMs are using milestone xp rather than calculating it? We have 4 full tables so things can get a bit rowdy and I think the decision was made for ease of bookkeeping. But I appreciate the rules clarification. I'll prolly make a 1st and a 9th just in case.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

DMs break the rules in AL all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if the player could come in with a level 9 PC.

There is no real oversight, sure there are some guidelines but no real oversight.

I could start DMing AL and run GURPS and people would get XP for their 5e characters for when they go to cons and such.

[Oramac]

One of the rules of the campaign is that death is a real thing, but can be overcome easily enough. If you or the party has 500 gp at your disposal, you can be raised from the dead easily enough. A 9th level character ought to have this coinage at his disposal, or at the very least be able to call on the rest of the party.

Unless, of course, your regular home group decides to play AL for kicks, and one of the party members gets one-shot killed by a booby trapped door with a Disintegrate spell cast on it. Bam. You can't res him. So now the rest of the group has to start over because AL has a really stupid effing rule about "new" characters.

(That exact situation happened to my group literally yesterday.)


This is hillarious, and without any purpose or meaning. In fact it is a rule that consists only of negative reprecursions for the game, and not one positive. Anyway, I dont play in AL and I always insist about common xp values in my home games, and I am still derailing this thread, so I will just hush now.

I agree it's an incredibly stupid rule, and one that I would be more than ok with players and DM's breaking.

[DivisibleByZero]

Unless, of course, your regular home group decides to play AL for kicks, and one of the party members gets one-shot killed by a booby trapped door with a Disintegrate spell cast on it. Bam. You can't res him. So now the rest of the group has to start over because AL has a really stupid effing rule about "new" characters.

(That exact situation happened to my group literally yesterday.

Except for the fact that the rest of the party absolutely does NOT need to start over.
In point of fact, Bounded Accuracy makes it so that you, as a level 1 character playing with a party of level 9s, can still contribute.... as long as you're extremely careful not to bite off more than you can chew and play intelligently. And running with level 9s, you'll level up extremely quickly, making the need to play it safe not last nearly as long as you'd think.

Our table does exactly this.
Death matters. If you die, you start over. We've been playing that way ever since AD&D 2e, because those were the rules then as well. The only difference is that NOW the game actually makes it perfectly legitimate and playable, and you can still contribute.
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bounded Accuracy!

[Corran]

Except for the fact that the rest of the party absolutely does NOT need to start over.
In point of fact, Bounded Accuracy makes it so that you, as a level 1 character playing with a party of level 9s, can still contribute.... as long as you're extremely careful not to bite off more than you can chew and play intelligently. And running with level 9s, you'll level up extremely quickly,making the need to play it safe not last nearly as long as you'd think. I am assuming this 1st level character who is contributing in the party of 9th level characters is an archer, right? I mean he has to be, right? Right....?:smallconfused:


Our table does exactly this.
Character death matters. If you die, you start over. We've been playing that way ever since AD&D 2nd ed., because those were the rules then as well. The only difference is that Now the game actually makes it perfectly legitimate and playable, and you can still/contribute.
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bounded Accuracy!Ofc death matters. You lost a character that you spent who knows how long planning and playing. You mean that there has to be a mechanical penalty to your new character in order for your previous character's death to matter? Honestly I dont follow that logic...

Character dies. Rejoin the game with a new lower level character. Increased chances for another character death. If that happens, rejoin game with yet another even lower level character. Even more increased chances of character death. And so on and so on. It's a loop. You could end up changing characters like shirts. Player starts losing interest as is expected. Does a campaign profit from uniterested players?

[Oramac]

I am assuming this 1st level character who is contributing in the party of 9th level characters is an archer, right? I mean he has to be, right? Right....?:smallconfused:

Ofc death matters. You lost a character that you spent who knows how long planning and playing. You mean that there has to be a mechanical penalty to your new character in order for character death to matter? Honestly I dont follow that logic...

Character dies. Rejoin the game with a new lower level character. Increased chances for another character death. If that happens, rejoin game with yet another even lower level character. Even more increased chances of character death. And so on and so on. It's a loop. You could end up changing characters like shirts. Player starts losing interest as is expected. Does a campaign profit from uniterested players?

This.

A level one can contribute to a party of Tier 2-3 characters? I don't buy it. One failed save against any number of enemies/spells is enough to one-shot you. Same for most enemy attacks, especially those with multiattack. The only way that Level 1 is going to survive is if the DM gimmicks it to guarantee they live.

[eastmabl]

Except for the fact that the rest of the party absolutely does NOT need to start over.
In point of fact, Bounded Accuracy makes it so that you, as a level 1 character playing with a party of level 9s, can still contribute.... as long as you're extremely careful not to bite off more than you can chew and play intelligently. And running with level 9s, you'll level up extremely quickly, making the need to play it safe not last nearly as long as you'd think.

Our table does exactly this.
Death matters. If you die, you start over. We've been playing that way ever since AD&D 2e, because those were the rules then as well. The only difference is that NOW the game actually makes it perfectly legitimate and playable, and you can still contribute.
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bounded Accuracy!

You are right about Bounded Accuracy being great.

Under Adventurers' League rules, however, you cannot play adventures with adventurers in different tiers. Thus, you have to get your new character up to level 5 before you can continue adventuring with your 9th level pals.

This is harsh until you remember that it is really easy to get access to raise dead after fifth level.

[SharkForce]

again, if you have a functioning group, why on earth would you play AL? i can understanding running premade adventures (not everyone wants to spend all their spare time writing adventures or campaigns), but taking a gaming group and then telling them "by the way, you aren't allowed to use any of the houserules you like, you aren't allowed to go off the rails very far, and we've got our own set of houserules that you are compelled to use no matter how little you like them" sounds like a terrible idea.

AL can be better than no gaming at all, but i can't imagine a situation where i could get together with a group of friends that all want to play D&D and choosing to go to an AL game rather than just gaming as a group outside of AL.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

again, if you have a functioning group, why on earth would you play AL? i can understanding running premade adventures (not everyone wants to spend all their spare time writing adventures or campaigns), but taking a gaming group and then telling them "by the way, you aren't allowed to use any of the houserules you like, you aren't allowed to go off the rails very far, and we've got our own set of houserules that you are compelled to use no matter how little you like them" sounds like a terrible idea.

AL can be better than no gaming at all, but i can't imagine a situation where i could get together with a group of friends that all want to play D&D and choosing to go to an AL game rather than just gaming as a group outside of AL.

I challenge the assertion that AL can be better than no gaming at all.

I love D&D and rolepkaying but I have plenty of videogames that are a viable and better option than playing in AL.

Between videogames, being productive, and getting a new hobby (i built a computer) I think that not playing AL is a better alternative than playing AL.

Unless you find an exceptional group/DM, no AL is better than AL.

[coredump]

Wow... there is a whole lot of bad information and conjecture being presented as fact here.... Apparently by people with no or little actual experience playing AL, and likely having never even bothered to read the players guide..... Let me see if I can clear up some of the issues.


Ok. So my Swashbuckling Bladesinger got dropped by a couple of wights at the hands of a vengeful DM and I need to bring a new character next week. Since AL rosters are so unpredictable, what's the best utility build to cover all contingencies. Little bit of healing, decent sneak, combat capable....? Show me the craziness, please

Level 9

Sorry to hear that your 9th level party could not handle some wights... but okay, it happens. More sorry that no one healed you when you went down...but sometimes that happens too....
Are you really saying that no one in the party had access to Raise Dead? Nor Revivify? Between the entire party you couldn't scrounge together the 1250gp to get a Raise Dead in town?
Its actually pretty darn hard for a PC to die (and stay dead) in AL without a total party wipe.


BTW, would you mind saying which adventure you were running?



So if a character dies at 9 level, and his group are all 9 level, you mean to tell me that he has to start with a 1st level character? And AL is suposed to playtest things? How is that balanced or even fun? Anyway, that was off topic, so sorry about that.
No, he can bring in any of his AL legal characters. By the nature of AL, most players have several to choose from. If, for some reason, that was the only character he had, then yes.... all starting characters must start at 1st level. (There are ways of getting 'bonus XP' via DMing, but that is a different issue)



This is hillarious, and without any purpose or meaning. In fact it is a rule that consists only of negative reprecursions for the game, and not one positive.
Wow... you have a lot of strong statements, which you present as absolute facts. Does this mean you have conferred with the various Admins and *know* it is "without any purpose or meaning", or is it just a matter of your preconceived notions creating a bias and this is complete guesswork on your part...??

Because it *does* have purpose and meaning, and was done for some very explicit purposes. I know, because I have had some of these discussions with the admins.... but perhaps you have better sources than I do... perhaps you have been talking to WotC directly...???



That is all news to me. I've only been playing AL for about a year and this is only the first time I've come across the situation. I've seen other players come in with new characters after death at our milestone level which is from where I'm basing my conclusion. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the DMs are using milestone xp rather than calculating it? We have 4 full tables so things can get a bit rowdy and I think the decision was made for ease of bookkeeping. But I appreciate the rules clarification. I'll prolly make a 1st and a 9th just in case.

You may want to check out the AL Players Guide, you can get it on the WotC site: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/events/adventurers-league-resources
Please note, a new ALPG (v4.0) is due to come out in about a month or less. But it will be largely the same.

But yes, every new character needs to start as a level 1 PC.
Plus.... you are not allowed to use milestone XP.... you need to use the regular method of gaining XP. This is largely because of the Drop-in/Drop-out nature of the League.
Calculating the XP is really pretty easy, it usually takes me less than 30 seconds.


DMs break the rules in AL all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if the player could come in with a level 9 PC.

There is no real oversight, sure there are some guidelines but no real oversight.

I could start DMing AL and run GURPS and people would get XP for their 5e characters for when they go to cons and such.
Yes, people break rules. And people cheat. Congratulations for realizing you could "DM AL" and *cheat*.... and likely get away with it.
You can also easily cheat in a home game....so what? Cheating is pretty easy in most games....so is taking candy from a baby.... what is your point?



Unless, of course, your regular home group decides to play AL for kicks, and one of the party members gets one-shot killed by a booby trapped door with a Disintegrate spell cast on it. Bam. You can't res him. So now the rest of the group has to start over because AL has a really stupid effing rule about "new" characters.

(That exact situation happened to my group literally yesterday.).
(You never mentioned what level your party was when this happened)

So... how long ago did you group decide to so this? Months ago? Did you start new characters?
But more importantly, what adventure are you playing where you came across a door trapped with a Disintegrate spell..??!!??

But no, you don't have to start over. You could bring one of you other AL PCs. You could create a new PC an play some expeditions to get up a few levels and then move to the other group. You could create a new PC and play with the new group immediately.



I am assuming this 1st level character who is contributing in the party of 9th level characters is an archer, right? I mean he has to be, right? Right....?:smallconfused:
Almost any spell caster or ranged character can contribute offensively. Sneaky PCs can still scout. Healing. Divination. Knowledge/Perception/etc. Help Action. There are lots of ways to *carefully* contribute.
But...this assumes you don't already have another PC of a more appropriate level.
And....its only for one session. After a single session that level 1 would be 3rd-4th level.


Character dies. Rejoin the game with a new lower level character. Increased chances for another character death. If that happens, rejoin game with yet another even lower level character. Even more increased chances of character death. And so on and so on. It's a loop. You could end up changing characters like shirts. Player starts losing interest as is expected. Does a campaign profit from uniterested players?Just to be clear....this is *completely* conjecture that you made up to try and justify your opinion of how you think it might work in a certain situation.
You have never actually taken part in an AL campaign, and have no actual experience that would support your wild assumptions above.... or am I missing something?



Under Adventurers' League rules, however, you cannot play adventures with adventurers in different tiers. Thus, you have to get your new character up to level 5 before you can continue adventuring with your 9th level pals.
.That is not exactly true. In the hardback adventures there is much more leeway.... the recommendation (which I agree with) is to keep them within a couple of levels of the APL, but even that is not a requirement.
We recently have some new folks, and they started their 1st levels with my level 5 party. (and did just fine....)



I challenge the assertion that AL can be better than no gaming at all.

I love D&D and rolepkaying but I have plenty of videogames that are a viable and better option than playing in AL.

Between videogames, being productive, and getting a new hobby (i built a computer) I think that not playing AL is a better alternative than playing AL.

Unless you find an exceptional group/DM, no AL is better than AL.
Just out of curiosity..... how much experience do you have actually playing AL?? Have you played a lot? once or twice? Never.....??

Do you feel the same about a home game...that it requires an "exceptional group/DM" or it isn't worth playing??



Nicodiemus, if you (or anyone) has any questions you would like answered by someone that does have AL experience, and does know what the actual rules are.... feel free to ask some more.

[eastmabl]

Wow... there is a whole lot of bad information and conjecture being presented as fact here.... Apparently by people with no or little actual experience playing AL, and likely having never even bothered to read the players guide..... Let me see if I can clear up some of the issues.

...snip....


Under Adventurers' League rules, however, you cannot play adventures with adventurers in different tiers. Thus, you have to get your new character up to level 5 before you can continue adventuring with your 9th level pals.

That is not exactly true. In the hardback adventures there is much more leeway.... the recommendation (which I agree with) is to keep them within a couple of levels of the APL, but even that is not a requirement.
We recently have some new folks, and they started their 1st levels with my level 5 party. (and did just fine....)

For someone who claims that people are providing advice without reading the DDAL Players Guide, you should probably crack open the PDF before answering. On page 7, it states the following:


Adventures for the D&D Adventurers League are broken into four tiers of play—first tier (levels 1–4), second tier (levels 5–10), third tier (levels 11–16), and fourth tier (levels 17–20). Your character’s level determines which
tier of adventures you can play with that character. You cannot play adventures outside your tier.

[Oramac]

(You never mentioned what level your party was when this happened)

So... how long ago did you group decide to so this? Months ago? Did you start new characters?
But more importantly, what adventure are you playing where you came across a door trapped with a Disintegrate spell..??!!??

But no, you don't have to start over. You could bring one of you other AL PCs. You could create a new PC an play some expeditions to get up a few levels and then move to the other group. You could create a new PC and play with the new group immediately.

I didn't mention it because I didn't want to write out a bunch of spoilers for the current AL season. But since you asked, spoilers!

We were all levels 6-7, playing Out of the Abyss. We had been sailing along the big underground lake (I can't remember the name) and on the way to Mantal'derith (sp) came upon a secret Zhentarim door. We could tell it was booby trapped, but a series of low Arcana rolls meant we didn't know exactly how. The party Barbarian and Cleric/Rogue decided to force the door open, figuring the trap would be some kind of poison. The disintegrate spell on the door does (IIRC) 55 points of Force damage. It took the barbarian down to about 10 HP, and quite literally one-shot the Cleric. And there's the fun flavor text in the DM guide that says "a creature reduced to 0 HP by this spell is reduced to ash and can only be resurrected by a True Resurrection or Wish spell".

GG. The character is gone. Done. Vamoosh.

[eastmabl]

I didn't mention it because I didn't want to write out a bunch of spoilers for the current AL season. But since you asked, spoilers!

We were all levels 6-7, playing Out of the Abyss. We had been sailing along the big underground lake (I can't remember the name) and on the way to Mantal'derith (sp) came upon a secret Zhentarim door. We could tell it was booby trapped, but a series of low Arcana rolls meant we didn't know exactly how. The party Barbarian and Cleric/Rogue decided to force the door open, figuring the trap would be some kind of poison. The disintegrate spell on the door does (IIRC) 55 points of Force damage. It took the barbarian down to about 10 HP, and quite literally one-shot the Cleric. And there's the fun flavor text in the DM guide that says "a creature reduced to 0 HP by this spell is reduced to ash and can only be resurrected by a True Resurrection or Wish spell".

GG. The character is gone. Done. Vamoosh.

Well, crap. That's straight out of the Tomb of Horrors School of Game Design. GJ, Green Ronin.

Also, it's on the weak end of an actual disintegrate spell, which should do (on average) 75 points of damage.

[Oramac]

Well, crap. That's straight out of the Tomb of Horrors School of Game Design. GJ, Green Ronin.

Also, it's on the weak end of an actual disintegrate spell, which should do (on average) 75 points of damage.

Pretty much, yea. I may have gotten the damage wrong. But the point is, it one-shot the Cleric and damn near killed the Barbarian. And the Cleric can't be resurrected.

[coredump]

For someone who claims that people are providing advice without reading the DDAL Players Guide, you should probably crack open the PDF before answering. On page 7, it states the following:

When 'correcting' people, you should really be sure you are right. Especially when you were already wrong once.

That statement *is* true....but, as it states, it only applies to adventures that have been assigned an actual 'tier' of play. The hardbacks *do not have* any such assignment. There is nothing in PotA that says "this is tier 2" or whatever. Which is why I said there is no such restriction for the hardbacks. (As opposed to the DDEX/DDAL mods, which are explicitly assigned a tier)

Further, if you check the FAQ on the DDAL website, they explicitly address this situation, and state exactly what I have above. That is also where the 'with 2 of the APL' recommendation comes from that I also mentioned above.

[coredump]

Pretty much, yea. I may have gotten the damage wrong. But the point is, it one-shot the Cleric and damn near killed the Barbarian. And the Cleric can't be resurrected.You got the damage correct, assuming the cleric failed the save. (half otherwise)

But why did you need to force the door? You can't find it without a guide, and the guide will know the password..... and they certainly would have known about the trap.

Maybe if you were trying to get out a different door.... but getting in should have been easy and straightforward.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Just out of curiosity..... how much experience do you have actually playing AL?? Have you played a lot? once or twice? Never.....??

Do you feel the same about a home game...that it requires an "exceptional group/DM" or it isn't worth playing??


Quite a bit sadly.

I was in an accident and while I could walk, I couldn't walk well (so going up the stairs to my friend's gaming place was not possible). Do I decided the next best thing was AL. I was completely wrong.

I was in multiple AL games in three very different states (home state, state we went to for a few months, and new home state) over a large period of time.

I really have it my all and didn't let bad experiences stop me from trying multiple times.

What I learned is that AL looks nice on the outside but is just ran so damn poorly. It isn't that I think my experiences are the typical experience. However the fact that the set up is so bad that you have DMs pulling bullcrap in three different regions (major cities, multiple locations) that the odds of getting a totally crappy experience is not worth playing.

When there are no oversight on the guidlines you get problems.

DM's that are running 3e, DMs that don't know the 5e rules, DMs who are jerks, and DMs who actively insult new players. All the rule breaking? Siiigh...

When you set up an organization where it can become toxic, and no one does anything about it when you report the toxic, no gaming is better than dealing with the AL.

I'm done reporting them, I'm done dealing with them, and I'm done trying to make AL work. The DMs I talked about before? They are still DMing at AL. Maybe they got better, maybe they got worse.

All I know is that Non-AL Game > No Game > AL Game.

And even if you do find a good group and a good DM... There is no reason to continue running AL and abide to rules that no one else is abiding to. You may as well just make it your own game (you can use AL stuff, just not their rules).

[busterswd]

Ok. So my Swashbuckling Bladesinger got dropped by a couple of wights at the hands of a vengeful DM and I need to bring a new character next week. Since AL rosters are so unpredictable, what's the best utility build to cover all contingencies. Little bit of healing, decent sneak, combat capable....? Show me the craziness, please

Level 9

AL discussion aside, Moon Druid or Bard (preferably Lore, though Valor's not bad).

Healing, CC, out of combat utility, at least partially dex based so decent stealth. Lore Bard isn't as good at dealing damage, but he's amazing for screwing with enemies.

[Corran]

Wow... you have a lot of strong statements, which you present as absolute facts. Does this mean you have conferred with the various Admins and *know* it is "without any purpose or meaning", or is it just a matter of your preconceived notions creating a bias and this is complete guesswork on your part...??

Because it *does* have purpose and meaning, and was done for some very explicit purposes. I know, because I have had some of these discussions with the admins.... but perhaps you have better sources than I do... perhaps you have been talking to WotC directly...???

It is just my opinion, which I admit I feel very strongly about it, and I can understand if other people disagree with this. However, I do believe that my opinion in this matter is also a fact, one which some people fail to recognize. I reach this conclusion via my own logic, discussions I had with friends I play dnd with, and my own experience as well. I dont believe one has to have played in AL or talk with a certain handful of people in order to be able to reach to logical conclusions about whether such type of inbalance is beneficial or if it even leads to ''more fun'' in a dnd campaign.

Having said that, I would be more than happy to hear any reasoning as to why this rule is actually beneficial for a dnd campaign. If you feel like sharing ofc. I will do so while trying my best to keep an open mind, but I dont make any promises.

[Vemynal]

Maybe I'm a rarity but I started playing 5e AL in Austin Texas at Dragon's Lair and everyone there is great. The DM who started it is sorta "head DM" and him and the other DM's regularly have meetings to discuss rulings / decisions so that everyone offers a sorta similar experience. They also do a great job of weeding out anyone who...well I can't swear on this forum so suffice to say they weed out anyone who isn't nice to play with haha.

I've met my share of power gamers and I've met people who've been having a bad day but by and large its been an amazing experience. We're doing Escape from Phlan tomorrow and I'm super excited =).

I also just started going another day of the week when they run AL book campaign related material and have been dropped into the middle of OotA. I was a level 1 character in a party of level 4's and a level 5. Thanks to bounded accuracy (and playing a warlock) I contributed just fine.

I live in a new city every 3 months for work so AL seems like a great way for me to game. I'm a bit terrified after hearing the negative experiences some people have had but certainly where I've been playing its been a great experience.

[Oramac]

You got the damage correct, assuming the cleric failed the save. (half otherwise)

But why did you need to force the door? You can't find it without a guide, and the guide will know the password..... and they certainly would have known about the trap.

Maybe if you were trying to get out a different door.... but getting in should have been easy and straightforward.

Fun story, that. The rogue of the group killed the guide (not my choice, but my character was asleep when it happened). But not before I asked him to draw me a map of the area including safe places to dock, as my character has the sailor background and wanted to know where/how to sail the boats we had.

Sadly, I didn't think to ask him to write down any passwords.

[eastmabl]

When 'correcting' people, you should really be sure you are right. Especially when you were already wrong once.

That statement *is* true....but, as it states, it only applies to adventures that have been assigned an actual 'tier' of play. The hardbacks *do not have* any such assignment. There is nothing in PotA that says "this is tier 2" or whatever. Which is why I said there is no such restriction for the hardbacks. (As opposed to the DDEX/DDAL mods, which are explicitly assigned a tier)

Further, if you check the FAQ on the DDAL website, they explicitly address this situation, and state exactly what I have above. That is also where the 'with 2 of the APL' recommendation comes from that I also mentioned above.

Then cite to the correct authority when you post. I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong - which I probably am* - but I read the Adventurers' Guide before I posted and I read it again when responding. You said that people haven't read the Adventurers' Guide, and then chide me because I haven't also read the FAQ... which you conveniently didn't mention.

* Based upon the OP's cause of death it does not seem like he's playing through Out of the Abyss or any other hardback.

[coredump]

It is just my opinion, which I admit I feel very strongly about it, and I can understand if other people disagree with this. ...I dont believe one has to have played in AL or talk with a certain handful of people in order to be able to reach to logical conclusions

Except the claims you were making, are not a matter of opinion.
You stated:
The rules were created "without purpose or meaning"
The rules had "only negative repercussions"
The rules had "not one positive" repercussion.

These are false, and not subject to 'opinions'. The rules were created for a purpose. There are not 'only negative', and there are positive, repercussions. How you think you can decide that with *no* experience experiencing those repercussions, nor how you can somehow 'just know' about the rule-creation-process without any discussions with the people that created the rules. It seems like quite a bit of hubris.

Now, that all said. Regardless of the purpose and meaning of the rules....you still may not like them. *You* may not find the 'benefits' from the rules to be a positive influence on your gaming experience. (If you every actually had any AL experience to draw from). But that is a vast difference from your initial claims.


Since you asked....
(Actually, I have to go right now, but I can give you some of the reasons and positive repercussions when I get back.)

[coredump]

Fun story, that. The rogue of the group killed the guide (not my choice, but my character was asleep when it happened). But not before I asked him to draw me a map of the area including safe places to dock, as my character has the sailor background and wanted to know where/how to sail the boats we had.

Sadly, I didn't think to ask him to write down any passwords.

Heh... bummer. Why would the rogue do such a chaotic evil act? That could actually be considered a breach of AL rules.... but thats a different issue.

But... when you get the Zhents okay, you get *8* 'guides', all of which know the way there.

Sorry your DM and Rogue messed you guys up.

[SharkForce]

if nothing else, needing to start with a new character cuts down on "oh, i don't like my cleric anymore. oops, look at that, i died when i charged those three fire giants while wearing only a loincloth and at half health, guess i'll just have to come back as a rogue of equal level" i'm sure.

[coredump]

Then cite to the correct authority when you post. I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong - which I probably am* - but I read the Adventurers' Guide before I posted and I read it again when responding. You said that people haven't read the Adventurers' Guide, and then chide me because I haven't also read the FAQ... which you conveniently didn't mention.

* Based upon the OP's cause of death it does not seem like he's playing through Out of the Abyss or any other hardback.

I suggest you re-read my post. I think you will find I was not 'chiding' you, I was polite and simply corrected your (common) mistake. You decided to come back with the snark and attitude and escalate to a confrontation. You decided that a general statement about what 'likely' happened, must be directed specifically towards you. It was not. I cannot be held responsible for your defensive over reactions.

But since you insist on continuing.... I *did* correctly cite the authority. It *is* the ALPG. The passage that you quoted deals with 'Tiered Adventures'...... the hardbacks are not a tiered adventure, which is why that passage does not apply. The FAQ doesn't create the rule, it just makes it more plain for those that were misinterpreting it.

It made perfect sense to my why you had the wrong impression, which is why my response to you was civil and subdued. Your response, however....

[Corran]

Except the claims you were making, are not a matter of opinion.
You stated:
...........
But that is a vast difference from your initial claims.
I cannot answer any oh this, except by suggesting to re-read my previous post on its whole.
On second though, dont. It is not important to agree on what I said and what I didnt, or on what I meant and what I didnt. Or on if I express my opinions in a very strong way and I dont say ''imo'' every time I argue about sth. Or on if I support my opinions as facts because I think I am right and everyone else is wrong. This is not even important. And I suspect that you too would prefer to move the conversation to a more constructive direction. Which is why would that specific rule that is being debated by me as to its purpose and effects, exist. Is it because there is a bigger picture I fail to consider as far as AL play is concerned? That I am interested discussing about.



Since you asked....
(Actually, I have to go right now, but I can give you some of the reasons and positive repercussions when I get back.)As I said right above, this is exactly what I would like to discuss. I understand that starting to explain sth like that from the beginning, especially to someone who feels so strongly against it (me), may not be fun and it may be tiring. But if you find time and you are in the mood for this dire task, I will be happy to hear what you have to say and discuss it. At your convenience.

[busterswd]

That statement *is* true....but, as it states, it only applies to adventures that have been assigned an actual 'tier' of play. The hardbacks *do not have* any such assignment. There is nothing in PotA that says "this is tier 2" or whatever. Which is why I said there is no such restriction for the hardbacks. (As opposed to the DDEX/DDAL mods, which are explicitly assigned a tier)


We've had this discussion before, and while you're right about being able to mix level 1 with level 8's, the FAQ does explicitly also refer to tiers for hardbacks, specifically for DM rewards. The individual chapters do not designate themselves as being designed for T1/2/3, but a DM still needs to make a mental judgment call on what method he uses to designate tiers. It's part of the source of confusion I initially had.