Ranger/Spell-less and Rogue/fighter stats/build. - Advice sought.

[Greenfeuer]

Hey there people! Just wanted to hear what stats you advice a ranger or spell-less ranger to take.

I am going Stout Halfling and I will be going the archer/ranged route. - I don't use magic and will be using a non magic Ranger variant. - I have looked at Fighter Scout + Rogue aswell, but haven't concluded if its somthing I want or not. Please have a look at both my setups for each.

I am play tested both classea and both have their quailities, what I wanna know however is what kinda of stats you guys would advice to have high and low. - Due keep in mind I don't want any negative 8- stats, due to how my character is.

http://www.adnd3egame.com/documents/ranger%20variant.pdf - Spell-less Ranger.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf - Scout Fighter Archtype.

For Spell-less ranger.

Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

__________

Fighter/Rogue

Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

[Citan]

Hey there people! Just wanted to hear what stats you advice a ranger or spell-less ranger to take.

I am going Stout Halfling and I will be going the archer/ranged route. - I don't use magic and will be using a non magic Ranger variant. - I have looked at Fighter Scout + Rogue aswell, but haven't concluded if its somthing I want or not. Please have a look at both my setups for each.

I am play tested both classea and both have their quailities, what I wanna know however is what kinda of stats you guys would advice to have high and low. - Due keep in mind I don't want any negative 8- stats, due to how my character is.

http://www.adnd3egame.com/documents/ranger%20variant.pdf - Spell-less Ranger.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf - Scout Fighter Archtype.

For Spell-less ranger.

Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

__________

Fighter/Rogue

Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 12
Cha: 12
Hi!

Both are strong options. I particularly like Ranger for his evasive abilities and Volley (especially combined with Crossbow Expert to use it in melee). However, its real value greatly varies depending on enemy configuration. If you have no way to clump enemies together (aka your campaign will mainly be in great open spaces and/or no ally has any way to create prisons or chokepoints) then it's inferior to Fighter in which the 3/4 attacks can be dispersed.
So I would make it my main factor of choice.

Also, if you think you won't ever get to 20 and your DM allows dice and manoeuvers to stack, combine Fighter and Spell-less Ranger to have much more to play with per short rest.

As for stats, I think it's better whatever happens for a "Ranger fluff" character to have decent/high WIS.

If you were considering the Scout archetype because of Ranger-like fluff and features (and, as said, DM allows stacking) I would suggest the following:
Fighter BM 3
Rogue 2+
Spellless Hunter Ranger 13+ (Horde Breaker, Escape the Horde, Volley, Evasion if you go up to 15).

If you would rather focus on the bowman aspect, then going Fighter main will be better (add Spellless Ranger 2-3 and Rogue X) because the 3*attack per Attack action will be easier to use as a basis, and you get many feats to custom.

[Greenfeuer]

Hi!

Both are strong options. I particularly like Ranger for his evasive abilities and Volley (especially combined with Crossbow Expert to use it in melee). However, its real value greatly varies depending on enemy configuration. If you have no way to clump enemies together (aka your campaign will mainly be in great open spaces and/or no ally has any way to create prisons or chokepoints) then it's inferior to Fighter in which the 3/4 attacks can be dispersed.
So I would make it my main factor of choice.

Also, if you think you won't ever get to 20 and your DM allows dice and manoeuvers to stack, combine Fighter and Spell-less Ranger to have much more to play with per short rest.

As for stats, I think it's better whatever happens for a "Ranger fluff" character to have decent/high WIS.

If you were considering the Scout archetype because of Ranger-like fluff and features (and, as said, DM allows stacking) I would suggest the following:
Fighter BM 3
Rogue 2+
Spellless Hunter Ranger 13+ (Horde Breaker, Escape the Horde, Volley, Evasion if you go up to 15).

If you would rather focus on the bowman aspect, then going Fighter main will be better (add Spellless Ranger 2-3 and Rogue X) because the 3*attack per Attack action will be easier to use as a basis, and you get many feats to custom.



We are level 8 and thanks for the advice. However the focus is more on the stats then the options. At my 15 level I may consinder going into fighter scout or rogue. Depending on whatI feel like. :)



My plan so faar is to go Spell-less ranger due to more roleplay flavor. - I need two feats have my character work as I would like him to. Sharpshooter + Lucky.

[djreynolds]

Think of a rogue as a sniper, with a big gun.
Fighter is a machine gun, with sharpshooter and precision and trip and disarm, awesome
Ranger, spell-less is very fighter like

The rogue needs levels to really get any true output from his sneak attack.
When multiclassing a rogue, you still only get one sneak attack a turn, so any extra attack is to facilitate getting that sneak attack and then moving on.
But the rogue sneak attack can up the damage of dexterity based melee combatant.

But what is really needed is your concept. Who is this guy/gal? Why ranger, or fighter, or rogue? Legolas?
Sharpshooter is a feat anyone can take. This is the archer's main damage. And ranger and fighter get archery style.
What else does this guy do in combat? How does he melee? Ranger's volley is for bows, but the hunter gets horde breaker. But where is the damage in melee coming from?

I believe in optimizing a concept. The fighter at 11th level gets 3 attacks, that can be used in ranged or melee. Determine how much rogue you want. My kid plays a rogue, and she cleans out when she hits, but when she misses she misses.

Who else is in your party? Are you the damage dealer? Do they need you dropping enemy or just peppering the enemy with consistent damage and being a back-up tank?

IMO, at higher levels, a rogue is dropping people but he needs to dip fighter or ranger to facilitate landing those big shots for archery style and precision and possibly an extra attack. At 11th level, its 6d6 plus 5, and plus 10 if they also use sharpshooter.

Fighters are laying down consistent damage and backing up tanks. Can they drop enemy, yes. They can land sharpshooter 3xs in a round, that's 45 right there with dex modifiers and with precision and archery style they don't miss much.

The ranger, though also adds healing and crowd control spells and sometimes this helps out more. Volley and horde breaker can do a lot of damage when coupled with sharpshooter.

The archery based fighter's damage is with a bow, or some superiority dice, but when goes melee his damage output drops.
The ranger still has hunter's mark, and spells, but he takes volley his damage output is diminished in melee.
The rogue's damage is good anywhere, but bad rolls exist and a rogue has to weigh whether to use his bonus action to try again and land his sneak attack or disengage.

I prefer the new scout, as he gets more than the spell less ranger and he has more feats, coupled with a rogue's expertise you can be the master of the wild. 12 scout/ 8 swashbuckler gives you 6 feats, 4 skills expertise, 4d6 SA. Easily maxed out dex. And some real oomph in melee.

But you want the spell-less ranger, so play that. Snag some rogue for expertise and cunning action and the rest ranger. 18 ranger/ 2 rogue

The spells of the ranger are very powerful, Citan's build is legit. 3BM or 3 scout, 2 rogue, and I would go hunter ranger.

[Citan]

Think of a rogue as a sniper, with a big gun.
Fighter is a machine gun, with sharpshooter and precision and trip and disarm, awesome
Ranger, spell-less is very fighter like

The rogue needs levels to really get any true output from his sneak attack.
When multiclassing a rogue, you still only get one sneak attack a turn, so any extra attack is to facilitate getting that sneak attack and then moving on.
But the rogue sneak attack can up the damage of dexterity based melee combatant.

I prefer the new scout, as he gets more than the spell less ranger and he has more feats, coupled with a rogue's expertise you can be the master of the wild. 12 scout/ 8 swashbuckler gives you 6 feats, 4 skills expertise, 4d6 SA. Easily maxed out dex. And some real oomph in melee.

But you want the spell-less ranger, so play that. Snag some rogue for expertise and cunning action and the rest ranger. 18 ranger/ 2 rogue

The spells of the ranger are very powerful, Citan's build is legit. 3BM or 3 scout, 2 rogue, and I would go hunter ranger.
There are even more benefits to this Fighter/Rogue/Archer dip.
Unless I'm mistaken, most of the manoeuvers are consumed "on the fly" so you don't need your bonus action for that.
If you want to play a bowman, Crossbow Expert won't help with bonus action (since it requires one-handed crossbow).
Sharpshooter doesn't provide anything either to fill a bonus action.
Ranger only provides "Hide" as bonus action at 14th lvl.
Fighter only provides "situational" bonus action with Second Wind.

So, basically, nothing in Ranger or Fighter really provides a often useful bonus action. Hence the Rogue with Cunning Action which greatly enhance mobility or defense, that you can use nearly every turn. :)
>> Perfect synergy between the three classes, no competition. :)

Also, taking Ranger AND Fighter means you get two Fighting Style: beyond the obvious Archery, you get either extra defense (Defense), extra defense and mobility (Mariner) or better attack in both melee and range (Close Quarter Shooters if all UA content allowed).

As for choosing the chassis and archetype, as said, if you're not sure about your party and campaign, Fighter main is easier to play and crunch. Then indeed Scout is the best choice because "Ranger-like" features. Use the Ranger's known maneouvers to complete your set. ;)
Since you went Ranger already from what I understand, then Battlemaster can be a very good choice instead of Scout. It really depends on what you want.
- More choice of manoeuvers? Battlemaster.
- More Favored Terrains? Scout (if only DM is okay that it stacks in spite of being explicitely "the ranger class feature" -which means by RAW it should not stack).
- If you really want the manoeuver on skills checks or you would have taken Parry & Precision anyways: Scout.

[djreynolds]

As long as your archer has the archery style, precision, and sharpshooter... you need nothing else but 20 in dex. So really any class could grab three levels of BM and could be a wizard.

Now you just need more attacks and with that just stay ranger and get volley, you are too far into the campaign to pass up that 11th level carrot. After that multiclassing is fine. I'm unsure if spell-less ranger get the hunter's stuff, but that 11th level volley is what you want.

Do not forget war cleric. Bless is another way of sticking sharpshooter to your enemies and you have wisdom for it.

[Citan]

As long as your archer has the archery style, precision, and sharpshooter... you need nothing else but 20 in dex. So really any class could grab three levels of BM and could be a wizard.

Now you just need more attacks and with that just stay ranger and get volley, you are too far into the campaign to pass up that 11th level carrot. After that multiclassing is fine. I'm unsure if spell-less ranger get the hunter's stuff, but that 11th level volley is what you want.

Do not forget war cleric. Bless is another way of sticking sharpshooter to your enemies and you have wisdom for it.
No worries, spell-less just focuses on replacing spells, you get every feature from archetype, including the godly Volley. ;)

[Greenfeuer]

I am going Scout Saboteur archtype 4 levels and Spell-less Ranger 4 levels, Archtype Hunter with Relentless Harrier/Colossal slayer. - I may take 5 levels in Spell-less Ranger and the rest in Scout, just to get that ekstra attack.

My character is alot about traps and hunting trolls so the mixture between the two is perfect! My GM is very good with improvising traps and other stuff too, so it works very well and already
tried my character, we had a whole weekend session and it was awesome.

However I may still need a few tips and such ;) - I think Volley is cool from Ranger, but two many levels goes into that and it fits a bow user better. I see my character as more of a one hitter with his sling, or maybe a two hitter at times, and the skrimish ability to hide and dash and all that is amazing.

I start my first level as Spell-less Ranger, due to more armor + 10hp + more.

I use these two classes. - Allowed by my GM :)

I have a question though. Persusasion or Investigation? Which of these two skills care most important? So faar I am all about investigation, due to class features :)

http://www.adnd3egame.com/documents/ranger%20variant.pdf

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?473075-New-Scout-class