5th party member advice

[LanSlyde]

The setting: Magic is restricted because 'reasons', only divine magic is available, and only up to 5th level spells. Also no ToB.

The party consists of 1 half-giant greatsword wielding fighter, 1 drow ranger, 1 gnome ninja, and 1 raptoran scout.

Our fifth member is considering a cleric but has asked my advice. What would you build to try and round out this party?

[nedz]

Apart from the Fighter the party is very stealthy - so I would stick with this theme.

Divine Bard perhaps ?

It's a shame about the Fighter - this party could just sneak past many threats otherwise - but because of this character choice they will be forced to fight encounters they needn't do otherwise.

Mystic Ranger is an option which may alleviate this issue. Ranger spells can buff other character's stealth skills, and they only get level 5 spells anyway.

[LanSlyde]

Apart from the Fighter the party is very stealthy - so I would stick with this theme.

Divine Bard perhaps ?

It's a shame about the Fighter - this party could just sneak past many threats otherwise - but because of this character choice they will be forced to fight encounters they needn't do otherwise.

Mystic Ranger is an option which may alleviate this issue. Ranger spells can buff other character's stealth skills, and they only get level 5 spells anyway.

You see, I went there, but he is also rewriting the ranger,bard, and paladin to be spell-less. Assume any sort of magic is coming out of Cleric. Druids are out the window as well.

[Spore]

You see, I went there, but he is also rewriting the ranger,bard, and paladin to be spell-less. Assume any sort of magic is coming out of Cleric. Druids are out the window as well.

Bards are decent even without their spells. Just focus on being a ranged combatant. He took away a fourth of what the class is truly capable of. You still have a load of social skills, the performance and combat ability.

[nedz]

You see, I went there, but he is also rewriting the ranger,bard, and paladin to be spell-less. Assume any sort of magic is coming out of Cleric. Druids are out the window as well.

Hmm, I don't know what to suggest then, other than you have answered your own question.

This party is going to have combat - which means that they will be forced to rest up for days between encounters or have a Cleric.

You could just go for a stealth type character and let the DM worry about solving this issue. This may seem passive aggressive, but DMs have to go through a learning curve too. I've seen several novice DMs try this because they think it will make their lives easier - the opposite is true.

As a compromise: build a stealth type character which has a Wis focus. This will allow multi-classing into Cleric later.

[LanSlyde]

I may just push him towards a rogue and be done with it. But assuming Cleric, I can't think of any PrCs that would work will with the spell level cuttoff. I figure a half-casting Prc would mitigate losses, but I can't think of any that are decent.

[WeaselGuy]

Blackflame Zealot? Rogue 1/Cleric 4/BFZ 10 gives you casting as a 9th level cleric, which is 5th level spells. If you want to cap out at that spell level, maybe go into Dread Commando 5 to finish up the build?




Level

Class

BAB

Class Features

Feats



1

Rogue


Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding

EWP(Kukri)



2

Cleric


Turn/Rebuke Undead




3

Cleric

1


Iron Will



4

Cleric

2





5

Cleric

3





6

Blackflame Zealot

3

Death Attack, Zealous Heart

Dodge



7

Blackflame Zealot

4

Poison Use




8

Blackflame Zealot

5

Sneak Attack +2d6




9

Blackflame Zealot

6


Mobility



10

Blackflame Zealot

6

Fateful Stride




11

Blackflame Zealot

7

Sneak Attack +3d6




12

Blackflame Zealot

8

Sacred Flame

*



13

Blackflame Zealot

9





14

Blackflame Zealot

9

Sneak Attack +4d6




15

Blackflame Zealot

10

Unholy Immolation

*



16

Dread Commando

11

Sudden Strike +1d6, Team Initiative bonus




17

Dread Commando

12

Armored Ease 2




18

Dread Commando

13

Sudden Strike +2d6

*



19

Dread Commando

14

Armored Ease 4, Stealthy Movement




20

Dread Commando

15

Sudden Strike +3d6

[Andezzar]

Are the spells cut off at 5 when the caster normally gets them or are the 6 spell levels spread over 20 levels? If it is the former just go with cleric/druid anyways.

Are Psionics allowed?

[LanSlyde]

Blackflame Zealot? Rogue 1/Cleric 4/BFZ 10 gives you casting as a 9th level cleric, which is 5th level spells. If you want to cap out at that spell level, maybe go into Dread Commando 5 to finish up the build?




Level

Class

BAB

Class Features

Feats



1

Rogue


Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding

EWP(Kukri)



2

Cleric


Turn/Rebuke Undead




3

Cleric

1


Iron Will



4

Cleric

2





5

Cleric

3





6

Blackflame Zealot

3

Death Attack, Zealous Heart

Dodge



7

Blackflame Zealot

4

Poison Use




8

Blackflame Zealot

5

Sneak Attack +2d6




9

Blackflame Zealot

6


Mobility



10

Blackflame Zealot

6

Fateful Stride




11

Blackflame Zealot

7

Sneak Attack +3d6




12

Blackflame Zealot

8

Sacred Flame

*



13

Blackflame Zealot

9





14

Blackflame Zealot

9

Sneak Attack +4d6




15

Blackflame Zealot

10

Unholy Immolation

*



16

Dread Commando

11

Sudden Strike +1d6, Team Initiative bonus




17

Dread Commando

12

Armored Ease 2




18

Dread Commando

13

Sudden Strike +2d6

*



19

Dread Commando

14

Armored Ease 4, Stealthy Movement




20

Dread Commando

15

Sudden Strike +3d6








Thanks, will see if he likes the idea.



Are the spells cut off at 5 when the caster normally gets them or are the 6 spell levels spread over 20 levels? If it is the former just go with cleric/druid anyways.

Are Psionics allowed?

Sadly no. No psionics. Or arcane, or Shadowmagic or Binding, Truenaming, etc.

[Thurbane]

Sadly no. No psionics. Or arcane, or Shadowmagic or Binding, Truenaming, etc.

Does that extend to SLAs? I'm assuming Warlocks, Dragonfire Adepts and Factotums also not allowed?

If you don't end up with a Cleric, might be worth someone dipping into Dragon Shaman for the aura that gets you up to 1/2 HP (unless the Dm has banned them for having Su abilities).

[Xerlith]

Uh... Artificer should work? I mean, seriously. If the class isn't banned, Artificer would be a great boon for the party.

[LanSlyde]

Does that extend to SLAs? I'm assuming Warlocks, Dragonfire Adepts and Factotums also not allowed?

If you don't end up with a Cleric, might be worth someone dipping into Dragon Shaman for the aura that gets you up to 1/2 HP (unless the Dm has banned them for having Su abilities).

You would be correct in the assumption that those are not allowed. Dragon Shaman is not allowed as to the fact that all but like, 2 dragons were destroyed in the Cataclysm. So yeah, anything dragon related is out the door.



Uh... Artificer should work? I mean, seriously. If the class isn't banned, Artificer would be a great boon for the party.

Artificers are in his campaign world are near mythic savants that are locked away in the same place all the arcane casters are, they do not 'adventure' and as such are unavailable to players.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Bard with UMD and get a wand of CLW. Or vigor.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd go with a Cleric. Cloistered Cleric if it's allowed. Get up to 5th level spells and after that take whatever you want, because even 5th level spells are already pretty powerful. Especially if your party has no magic at all.
A Sacred Fist build could be nice, and the lost caster levels don't hurt all that much with the limited casting available. Or he could build an archer cleric if he'd rather stay at range and go into archer PrCs after getting 5th level spells.

You could also go into a second casting class after getting 5th level spells, simply because you're the only one actually providing magical power. Even 1st level spells can have a pretty big impact in that situation.

[Psyren]

Binder is a great 5th man, but they don't truly take off until you can bind a second vestige at 8th level. You can still do well before then but you need Expel Vestige to avoid being a one-trick pony, and you're at heightened risk of falling under influence.

[LanSlyde]

Bard with UMD and get a wand of CLW. Or vigor.

The player has expressed disinterest in a Bard. Also, no guarantee we will ever see any kind of Wand. A +1 weapon will be very rare according to the dm.


I'd go with a Cleric. Cloistered Cleric if it's allowed. Get up to 5th level spells and after that take whatever you want, because even 5th level spells are already pretty powerful. Especially if your party has no magic at all.
A Sacred Fist build could be nice, and the lost caster levels don't hurt all that much with the limited casting available. Or he could build an archer cleric if he'd rather stay at range and go into archer PrCs after getting 5th level spells.

You could also go into a second casting class after getting 5th level spells, simply because you're the only one actually providing magical power. Even 1st level spells can have a pretty big impact in that situation.

I looked at Sacred Fist, but the player thinks monks are silly. As for the second casting class, Thats pretty much out the window, as no arcane, psionic, etc. No druids... pretty much just cleric.


Binder is a great 5th man, but they don't truly take off until you can bind a second vestige at 8th level. You can still do well before then but you need Expel Vestige to avoid being a one-trick pony, and you're at heightened risk of falling under influence.

I suggested it, but because of the Cataclysm our Prime Material is effectively cut off from the other planes except for the Ethereal and Shadow planes. This extends to the places beyond and between planes, so binding is off the table due to fluff.

[Psyren]

Oh my bad, I misread post 9 and thought it was allowed.

I haven't seen Incarnum mentioned yet, what about that? They make a great 5th man too.

Failing that - how about Shugenja? They're divine, but get some more blasting and utility than out-of-the-box clerics do. Even limited to 5ths, you can pull something off.

[WeaselGuy]

What did he think of the Black Flame Zealot Dread Commando?

[Janthkin]

The player has expressed disinterest in a Bard. Also, no guarantee we will ever see any kind of Wand. A +1 weapon will be very rare according to the dm.Bummer; scenarios with very rare magic make Bardic buffs really shine.

What about a Marshal? The auras give good buffage, without being overtly magical.

[ATHATH]

Ooh, what about that A-Game Paladin build?

[Andezzar]

The player has expressed disinterest in a Bard. Also, no guarantee we will ever see any kind of Wand. A +1 weapon will be very rare according to the dm.Take Craft Wondrous Items/Craft Wand.


I looked at Sacred Fist, but the player thinks monks are silly. As for the second casting class, Thats pretty much out the window, as no arcane, psionic, etc. No druids... pretty much just cleric.Nothing wrong with Cleric 9 or Cleric 7/Thaumaturgist 2+


I suggested it, but because of the Cataclysm our Prime Material is effectively cut off from the other planes except for the Ethereal and Shadow planes. This extends to the places beyond and between planes, so binding is off the table due to fluff.Does that mean no summoning/calling spells? If so Thaumaturgist is worthless

Istead of the A-Game Paladin, take a couple of levels of the Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) if possible. Another option would be Cleric/Fist of Raziel.

[torrasque666]

Ooh, what about that A-Game Paladin build?
doesn't that rely on wizard casting? Wouldn't work. Paladin's don't have spells in this campaign, and thus no slots to prepare wizardry in. So all you'd be getting would be the inspire courage stuff.

[daremetoidareyo]

Thrower build?

[Grod_The_Giant]

doesn't that rely on wizard casting? Wouldn't work. Paladin's don't have spells in this campaign, and thus no slots to prepare wizardry in. So all you'd be getting would be the inspire courage stuff.
It helps, but a big part is still slapping Inspire Courage on things. Without casting the class isn't as MAD.

[Warrnan]

With creative domain choices, a cloistered cleric can be a Hybrid of wizard and cleric casting spells from both lists.

Barring that an ordained champion or a shadowbane stalker build would work pretty well. You could do melee or archery.

For the shadowbane stalker, rogue3/clc2/shadowbane stalker7/ordained champion4/swashbuckler4 would be a fun build.

Tons of skills. Maxed out CL of 10 for full amount of level 5 spells. This would give you 6d6 +20 sneak attack after adding craven and daring outlaw. I reccomend able learner for maximum skill flexibility but it's not 100% needed.

The ordained champion gives you swift action spontaneous war spells to grab divine power for +6 strength for melee or compound bows/ thrown weapons and full base attack bonus when needed. Also. Swift action flame strike is simply tons of fun for a divine character.

Basically a LG paladin/rogue hybrid.

[LanSlyde]

Oh my bad, I misread post 9 and thought it was allowed.

I haven't seen Incarnum mentioned yet, what about that? They make a great 5th man too.

Failing that - how about Shugenja? They're divine, but get some more blasting and utility than out-of-the-box clerics do. Even limited to 5ths, you can pull something off.

Incarnum is a negative, the DM finds the subsystem poorly executed and does not want it in his game.

Shugenja is also a negative. Apparently we are only allowed 1 oriental themed player (the ninja)


What did he think of the Black Flame Zealot Dread Commando?

Liked it, but still considering other options.


Bummer; scenarios with very rare magic make Bardic buffs really shine.

What about a Marshal? The auras give good buffage, without being overtly magical.

Negative on the marshal as well.


Take Craft Wondrous Items/Craft Wand.

Nothing wrong with Cleric 9 or Cleric 7/Thaumaturgist 2+

Does that mean no summoning/calling spells? If so Thaumaturgist is worthless

Istead of the A-Game Paladin, take a couple of levels of the Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) if possible. Another option would be Cleric/Fist of Raziel.



Crafting is restricted to Artificers, which are restricted to NPCs.

No summoning/calling spells.

Spell-less paladin.



With creative domain choices, a cloistered cleric can be a Hybrid of wizard and cleric casting spells from both lists.

Barring that an ordained champion or a shadowbane stalker build would work pretty well. You could do melee or archery.

For the shadowbane stalker, rogue3/clc2/shadowbane stalker7/ordained champion4/swashbuckler4 would be a fun build.

Tons of skills. Maxed out CL of 10 for full amount of level 5 spells. This would give you 6d6 +20 sneak attack after adding craven and daring outlaw. I reccomend able learner for maximum skill flexibility but it's not 100% needed.

The ordained champion gives you swift action spontaneous war spells to grab divine power for +6 strength for melee or compound bows/ thrown weapons and full base attack bonus when needed. Also. Swift action flame strike is simply tons of fun for a divine character.

Basically a LG paladin/rogue hybrid.

I will see what the gm/player things about shadowbane stalker. Shouldn't be an issue with the fluff,

[Spore]

Please please don't adopt my opinion without a reason but I start to really hate your DM and I have never seen him. His games better be as good as the combination of an assorted cheese platter with a great wine served upon the body of a supermodel.

[nedz]

OK - so basically every option we have suggested has been shot down - except for Mundane + Cleric.

I'm going to suggest Spirit Shaman - simply because that hasn't been ruled out so far.

[torrasque666]

If druid is out, Spirit Shaman probably is as well.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Paladin of Tyranny 2/Cleric 3/Horned Harbinger 2/Cleric 6. Ideally with the spontaneous cleric variant (to be charisma-SAD), but you can make do with 15 wisdom, put the rest in charisma.

Make sure you pick up the Undeath and Planning domains*, Practiced Spellcaster, Persistent Spell, and DMM:Persist. Persist consumptive field, and sacrifice a bunch of rats each morning. Walk around with a caster level of 19 (at level 13), and use animate dead as SLA once per day, at CL 21 + CHA, animating 2 HD/caster level, which is then doubled by desecrate, for a total of (21 + CHA) * 4 HD per casting.

In short: you can have around 100 HD worth of skeletons to throw at your problems, every day, for free. Try to pick big skeletons, with 15+ HD each, and pick up some Corpsecrafter feats.



*You technically need to worship Myrkul, whose domains are Death, Evil and Fate. According to Lost Empires of Faerûn, he's a dead god of death, and: "Myrkul was a cold, malignant, and rational death god [...]" (emphasis mine), so the Planning and Undeath domains suit his flavour well enough.


More seriously, if your DM is intent on shooting down everything besides a healbot, just screw healing altogether, and go with a Swift Hunter or something.

[Warrnan]

I will see what the gm/player things about shadowbane stalker. Shouldn't be an issue with the fluff,[/QUOTE]

The fluff is actually perfect from the start. Shadowbane stalker and ordained champion are both required to be LG divine casters meaning that they both most likely follow hieronious anyway. Basically a cleric with more skills. clerics don't follow the paladin code so sneak attack is totally legal.

I hope that build works for you. It seems like it meets your dm's parameters but give you the best possible character. Now I want to play one myself! :)

[OldTrees1]

Kobold (regular, not dragonwrought) Cloistered Cleric with the Kobold and Trickery domains. When you reach maximum casting start taking levels of Rogue.

[nedz]

If druid is out, Spirit Shaman probably is as well.

Yes probably, but since we seem to be playing a game of 20 questions - I though I'd ask.

[LanSlyde]

Please please don't adopt my opinion without a reason but I start to really hate your DM and I have never seen him. His games better be as good as the combination of an assorted cheese platter with a great wine served upon the body of a supermodel.

It's honestly not as bad as it sounds. My last DM had a habit of killing his players at the drop of a hat.


If druid is out, Spirit Shaman probably is as well.

You would be correct.


Paladin of Tyranny 2/Cleric 3/Horned Harbinger 2/Cleric 6. Ideally with the spontaneous cleric variant (to be charisma-SAD), but you can make do with 15 wisdom, put the rest in charisma.

Make sure you pick up the Undeath and Planning domains*, Practiced Spellcaster, Persistent Spell, and DMM:Persist. Persist consumptive field, and sacrifice a bunch of rats each morning. Walk around with a caster level of 19 (at level 13), and use animate dead as SLA once per day, at CL 21 + CHA, animating 2 HD/caster level, which is then doubled by desecrate, for a total of (21 + CHA) * 4 HD per casting.

In short: you can have around 100 HD worth of skeletons to throw at your problems, every day, for free. Try to pick big skeletons, with 15+ HD each, and pick up some Corpsecrafter feats.



*You technically need to worship Myrkul, whose domains are Death, Evil and Fate. According to Lost Empires of Faerûn, he's a dead god of death, and: "Myrkul was a cold, malignant, and rational death god [...]" (emphasis mine), so the Planning and Undeath domains suit his flavour well enough.


More seriously, if your DM is intent on shooting down everything besides a healbot, just screw healing altogether, and go with a Swift Hunter or something.

I came up with a Bone knight build for the player, the gm was OK with it, but warned us that there were going to be some dudes very relevant to plot late game that are sworn enemies against any who associate with the undead in any fashion other than bashing in their skulls.


I will see what the gm/player things about shadowbane stalker. Shouldn't be an issue with the fluff,

The fluff is actually perfect from the start. Shadowbane stalker and ordained champion are both required to be LG divine casters meaning that they both most likely follow hieronious anyway. Basically a cleric with more skills. clerics don't follow the paladin code so sneak attack is totally legal.

I hope that build works for you. It seems like it meets your dm's parameters but give you the best possible character. Now I want to play one myself! :)[/QUOTE]

Its Cleared the DM screen, waiting on the player response.


Kobold (regular, not dragonwrought) Cloistered Cleric with the Kobold and Trickery domains. When you reach maximum casting start taking levels of Rogue.

Kobolds went the way of the dragon sadly.


Yes probably, but since we seem to be playing a game of 20 questions - I though I'd ask.

Nothing wrong with asking. Honestly if he handed out a list of 'stuff we cannot use' I would forward it.

[Warrnan]

The fluff is actually perfect from the start. Shadowbane stalker and ordained champion are both required to be LG divine casters meaning that they both most likely follow hieronious anyway. Basically a cleric with more skills. clerics don't follow the paladin code so sneak attack is totally legal.

I hope that build works for you. It seems like it meets your dm's parameters but give you the best possible character. Now I want to play one myself! :)[/QUOTE]

Its Cleared the DM screen, waiting on the player response.

awesome! Very glad. The post-cataclysmic campaign setting sounds neat to a guy who always had a thing for the underdogs (mundane d&d heroes). Reminds me of dragonlance only backwards with the arcane magic being lost instead of divine. Very cool.

[OldTrees1]

Kobolds went the way of the dragon sadly.

Oh well.
_insert party appropriate race_ Rogue 1 / Cloistered Cleric (Trickery) 9 / Rogue +X is a working adaption. Time those additional rogue levels earlier as desired to sustain skills not on the Cloistered Trickery Cleric list.

[Thurbane]

If the campaign is Undead heavy, Rogue 3/Cleric 9/Skullclan Hunter 8.

OK, I know this is a longshot - how about prestige classes that have their own casting list? Have these been shot down as well? If he's re-making Paladins and Rangers to be non-casting, I'd assume so.

Another thought - normally LA and or RHD races are a poor option, but in this scenario, might be OK. Slap 9 or 10 levels of cleric on an LA race, then advance in an other class or PrC that plays to the races strength.

Also, how about 10th level cleric, then into something like Wonderworker - you don't advance casting, but do get bonus spells/day.

[ATHATH]

That reminds me- a Glamer might be useful here. Go Glamer 11/Sorcerer 1/Stoneblessed 3/Shadowcraft Mage 5, and you'll be a pretty good illusionist.

[Warrnan]

That reminds me- a Glamer might be useful here. Go Glamer 11/Sorcerer 1/Stoneblessed 3/Shadowcraft Mage 5, and you'll be a pretty good illusionist.

Except that arcane magic is banned in his campaign setting by his Dm.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You could also use levels in Wonderworker to get additional high-level spell slots. A cleric 9 gets 6/5/5/4/3/2 spells/day (including domain spells, but not bonus spells from high wisdom). It takes up to level 15 before they get their fifth fifth-level spell. Wonderworker adds two spell slots at level 1 and 3, and three at level two; you can't add them all to the same level of spells, but you can get up to 6/5/5/5/6/5 spells per day, before bonus spells.

[ATHATH]

Except that arcane magic is banned in his campaign setting by his Dm.
Darn.

Are there any 1st level Cleric [Shadow] spells?

[Thurbane]

Darn.

Are there any 1st level Cleric [Shadow] spells?

The lowest I can find is Dark Way (SC, p58), but that's Cleric 2.

I'm sure there's some way with shenanigans to cast it as a Cleric 1.

BTW, where can I find Glamer?

[HalfQuart]

BTW, where can I find Glamer?

Glamer is a 10HD incorporeal Outsider with a boatload of SLAs from Dragon 299 (page 55). Dunno if that's what ATHATH was referring to.

[Telonius]

EDIT: Missed it in the OP, never mind...

[HalfQuart]

I know Druid is out, and Ranger is getting reworked to be non-casting, but what about the Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) variant from UA/SRD? My guess is it isn't available, but thought I would ask.

And does Cleric get regular progression of spell levels up to 5th level spells, or is the progression changed to that of a Duskblade or something else?

[Aleolus]

Out of curiosity...

Is this a world where a single faith has basically taken over the world and is enforcing strict rules regarding peoples lifestyles, in particular placing a ban on anything quasi-magical that is not a member of the clergy?

[Warrnan]

The OP says it has to do with a cataclysmic event that shifted away the planes in a way that has shut off non-divine Magic sources and has even limited divine influence to only 5th level spells. My understanding having read the whole thread is that if you don't have a diety granting you powers your magic ceased to exist.

I'm guessing the Dm is trying to do the gritty realism thing.

[Aleolus]

The OP says it has to do with a cataclysmic event that shifted away the planes in a way that has shut off non-divine Magic sources and has even limited divine influence to only 5th level spells. My understanding having read the whole thread is that if you don't have a diety granting you powers your magic ceased to exist.

I'm guessing the Dm is trying to do the gritty realism thing.

Yes, but the op also said that wizards and artificers exist, but have simply been 'cloistered off' and don't adventure anymore. That strikes me as less "global cataclysm means only clerics still have power' and more 'We'll take advantage of the global cataclysm to make people think only we have power".

Also, would your DM allow an Archivist from Heroes of Horror? They are basically Clerics that prepare from a book instead of through prayer, but their powers do still come from a god.

(Also, they can add non-cleric divine spells to their book if you happen to get lucky and find some scrolls of them :wink:)

[bean illus]

Cloistered cleric is a fun class, and between stealth/face/spells you would be plenty useful. I second rogue/cleric as a possible simple choice.

There's also the fun Martial Rogue2 / Fighter2/ passive way Monk2 build. Ten feats in six levels plus monk bonus feats makes a pretty badass tripper, with 11 left for Cleric and 3 extra.
You could, of course, take those in any order.

Btw, what about CL? Does it advance after spell level maxes out?

Would Favored Soul have any use in such a campaign?

[LanSlyde]

Today, once I sleep and the sun rises once more. I shall meet with the Player one last time to finalize his character sheet. I thank you all for the brainstorm and will update this thread once its all said and done.

Lastly, I am considering keeping a campaign journal of how this all pans out. Anyone on the board interested in the idea of reading the exploits of myself and the the group in this brave new world?

[Thurbane]

Lastly, I am considering keeping a campaign journal of how this all pans out. Anyone on the board interested in the idea of reading the exploits of myself and the the group in this brave new world?

I would, definitely.

[Warrnan]

Due to the campaign parameters, it would be interesting to see how the low magic thing works out.

[LanSlyde]

Final update on party composition;

One Half-Giant Psychic Warrior2, one Whisper-Gnome Ninja2, one Raptoran Scout2, one Human Rogue2, and one Drow Ranger5/ScorpionWraith1.

Elaborations: The Psywar has always been a thing. I just felt it would take less time to say 'only divine casting' than 'there is psionics and stuff but its really rare and already been chosen by another player so is unavailable as a choice for this player.'

For this game, LA is ignored if it is less that +3.

The reason the drow is 4 levels higher than everyone else is because they are the most experienced player in the party and has a Dark Pact with the dm to keep the others in line should they feel the need to attempt to derail the plot in such a fashion as to cause the story line to become non-salvageable.

[Thurbane]

The reason the drow is 4 levels higher than everyone else is because they are the most experienced player in the party and has a Dark Pact with the dm to keep the others in line should they feel the need to attempt to derail the plot in such a fashion as to cause the story line to become non-salvageable.

...wow.

Well, each to their own and all that, but I gotta say, your DM sounds like a piece of work. :smallfrown:

Having restrictions on available classes is one thing - have a semi-DMPC to railroad the party is quite another.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to resist the urge to coup-de-grace or otherwise off the Drow first time he was vulnerable. Although I'm sure the DM would have some stupid plot device intervene and stop the attempt. :smallconfused:

Also, allowing a certain class or type of character for "first in, best dressed" sounds a bit whack to me, as well.

[LanSlyde]

...wow.

Well, each to their own and all that, but I gotta say, your DM sounds like a piece of work. :smallfrown:

Having restrictions on available classes is one thing - have a semi-DMPC to railroad the party is quite another.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to resist the urge to coup-de-grace or otherwise off the Drow first time he was vulnerable. Although I'm sure the DM would have some stupid plot device intervene and stop the attempt. :smallconfused:

Also, allowing a certain class or type of character for "first in, best dressed" sounds a bit whack to me, as well.

I should elaborate on my elaboration. All the others got nifty stuff, the raptoran won the DM RNG lottary and started play with an extra 1d5 x 1000 gp, the human got the 'brand new player' bonus gold. The gnome got a bunch of ninja items, etc. The drow has both the job of keeping the more spastic players in line as well as keeping them alive long enough to enjoy the game should the GM decide to send a Kraken after us (starting on a boat). The Drow is also the GM of a Dark Heresy game they run every other week (they alternate) so there may be some bias towards them. Lastly, despite starting off at level 6, the drow may not gain exp until one of the other players reaches level six.

As to the class restrictions. I honestly would have handled it differently if I was running the game.

Lastly, while offing the Drow might be a believable reaction to such information. Thats all kinds of Meta.

[Thurbane]

I should elaborate on my elaboration. All the others got nifty stuff, the raptoran won the DM RNG lottary and started play with an extra 1d5 x 1000 gp, the human got the 'brand new player' bonus gold. The gnome got a bunch of ninja items, etc. The drow has both the job of keeping the more spastic players in line as well as keeping them alive long enough to enjoy the game should the GM decide to send a Kraken after us (starting on a boat). The Drow is also the GM of a Dark Heresy game they run every other week (they alternate) so there may be some bias towards them. Lastly, despite starting off at level 6, the drow may not gain exp until one of the other players reaches level six.

As to the class restrictions. I honestly would have handled it differently if I was running the game.

Lastly, while offing the Drow might be a believable reaction to such information. Thats all kinds of Meta.
Fair enough. Hey, if you guys enjoy the game, that's the main thing.

It just brought back some bad memories of some of my earliest gaming: we were playing 1E, and the group was mixed between guys in my year at school and some guys a year or two higher. One of the older guys was a sociopathic jerk (for reasons above and beyond his DM style), and used to enjoy giving heaps of extra magic items and stuff to the older players when he was running the game, so they could basically push around the rest of us and have us as their "henchmen".

On the meta, agreed - I'd wait until the Drow had done something in game before I plotted his downfall.

...but I'm a firm believer in whatever works for a particular group, so if everyone is having fun, all good! :smallbiggrin:

[Vaz]

Be an outsider, like an aasimar or something (ask if you can reduce the LA, maybe give up stat bonus?) and find a way to pick up Alter Self; probably Battle Sorcerer, and assume supernatural ability, and if you need to be specific with it, The Visilights Charisma Drain. Although you are a less powerful Sorcerer which is optimization bad juju, it is able to drain charisma and just continually stack it. Now, go marshal. Add Charisma to all the things.

Go around hugging all the things, leaving a trail of people in comas with a continually stacking Charisma bonus and buffing everyone near you to stupid high skill amounts.

[LanSlyde]

Be an outsider, like an aasimar or something (ask if you can reduce the LA, maybe give up stat bonus?) and find a way to pick up Alter Self; probably Battle Sorcerer, and assume supernatural ability, and if you need to be specific with it, The Visilights Charisma Drain. Although you are a less powerful Sorcerer which is optimization bad juju, it is able to drain charisma and just continually stack it. Now, go marshal. Add Charisma to all the things.

Go around hugging all the things, leaving a trail of people in comas with a continually stacking Charisma bonus and buffing everyone near you to stupid high skill amounts.


First, the material plain has been locked away from the other realms. So no outsiders or their descendants. This was addressed in the thread. Second, Arcane magic is unavailable to the players. Also addressed in the thread. Finally, your about a day late and a dollar short.

[Warrnan]

Ok so the fifth guy picked rogue 2. Did he decide against cleric? Or is he just waiting until level 3 or something? I can't help but notice you guys have no healing or magic at all unless psy warriors can heal (I'm oblivious of psionics), in a party with three trapfinders.

I'm sure the DM has plans for how things would work. And I'm in full support of guy 5 playing whatever he wants.

I know opinions are like belly buttons: everyone has them. Personally rogue 1/cleric 1 would be nice to access all the heally things.

In this style of game I'd think the reserve feat Healing touch would be so needed just to deal with the lack of wands.

Just thinking out loud. You'll have to excuse me. I'm a recovering cleric addict. :)

[Vaz]

First, the material plain has been locked away from the other realms. So no outsiders or their descendants. This was addressed in the thread. Second, Arcane magic is unavailable to the players. Also addressed in the thread. Finally, your about a day late and a dollar short.

Cheers for your condescension. It's welcome.

[LanSlyde]

Ok so the fifth guy picked rogue 2. Did he decide against cleric? Or is he just waiting until level 3 or something? I can't help but notice you guys have no healing or magic at all unless psy warriors can heal (I'm oblivious of psionics), in a party with three trapfinders.

I'm sure the DM has plans for how things would work. And I'm in full support of guy 5 playing whatever he wants.

I know opinions are like belly buttons: everyone has them. Personally rogue 1/cleric 1 would be nice to access all the heally things.

In this style of game I'd think the reserve feat Healing touch would be so needed just to deal with the lack of wands.

Just thinking out loud. You'll have to excuse me. I'm a recovering cleric addict. :)


I think he got fed up with the magic system as modded by the GM. He is still considering cleric, but I think he wont take it until 4th level. Hopefully at 4th. Because I'm hoping I can convince him to drop trap sense for penetrating strike.

Psywarriors have like... 1 power that heals other people.

I forget touch of healing is a thing. But your right in that it would see a lot of use in this game.




Cheers for your condescension. It's welcome.

Apologies, I was grumpy last night.

[Warrnan]

I see. Yea I would be frustrated too. Penetrating strike and craven are very very important if he wants to do damage.

PsyWar healing. Interesting.

Touch of healing requires CL of 3, just FYI.