Difficult terrain for PCs only?

[BiPolar]

This is my first time DMing and I want to start off with an opportunity for players to either do the right thing or be punished. They're in a temple of a Halfling god (Urogalan) and the floor has about 10" of soil on it. I'm having a spectral image of the god show up and say unanimate your dead or suffer. If they choose not to return the skeletons to their bag of holding, I was going to flood the temple and create difficult terrain.

HOWEVER

I don't want the monsters to suffer. Is it a very bad idea to allow them full movement even though they technically should suffer the same penalty?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

This is my first time DMing and I want to start off with an opportunity for players to either do the right thing or be punished. They're in a temple of a Halfling god (Urogalan) and the floor has about 10" of soil on it. I'm having a spectral image of the god show up and say unanimate your dead or suffer. If they choose not to return the skeletons to their bag of holding, I was going to flood the temple and create difficult terrain.

HOWEVER

I don't want the monsters to suffer. Is it a very bad idea to allow them full movement even though they technically should suffer the same penalty?

Use earth Elementals who are shaped like Halflings and other creatures.

Also, don't just tell them to get rid of their undead, have different things show them that this place doesn't like undead. When they hit specific areas hacer he magic in the temple attack the undead and not the party UNLESS the party (specific PCs) attacks first.

[Douche]

Oooooh 10" of water, so scary! Please don't bring down your divine wrath on us, oh great diety of 10" of water!

[BiPolar]

Oooooh 10" of water, so scary! Please don't bring down your divine wrath on us, oh great diety of 10" of water!

Well, it's 10" of mud when the water combines with the soil. It's not a huge deal, just an inconvenience. Punishes the party a little bit, but doesn't have a huge effect. The bigger deal is that it means no treasure roll at the end if they don't put away the undead.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Well, it's 10" of mud when the water combines with the soil. It's not a huge deal, just an inconvenience. Punishes the party a little bit, but doesn't have a huge effect. The bigger deal is that it means no treasure roll at the end if they don't put away the undead.

Mud Elementals!

[Shining Wrath]

Did you discuss alignment and undead with the players prior to starting the campaign? If so, they ought to be aware that most good aligned deities frown on the undead (in most campaigns this is true and it seems likely to be true for yours).

Traipsing into the temple of a good aligned god accompanied by undead is cheeky at a minimum.

If you want 10" of mud to affect the PCs and not the defenders of the temple, give the defenders rocks to stand on, and slings, and halfling dexterity that lets them hop from rock to rock without making checks - they've practiced doing this.

[BiPolar]

Mud Elementals!

Love it! And introduces an extra encounter if they trigger it :D

ALthough I sitll want to penalize the group, I guess by suggesting adding monsters instead of agreeing to the difficult terrain you're answering that question.

[Knaight]

Given that the temple is of a halfling god, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have terrain that acts like difficult muddy terrain for anything medium or larger, but that anything small or smaller can walk on without issue.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Did you discuss alignment and undead with the players prior to starting the campaign? If so, they ought to be aware that most good aligned deities frown on the undead (in most campaigns this is true and it seems likely to be true for yours).

Traipsing into the temple of a good aligned god accompanied by undead is cheeky at a minimum.

If you want 10" of mud to affect the PCs and not the defenders of the temple, give the defenders rocks to stand on, and slings, and halfling dexterity that lets them hop from rock to rock without making checks - they've practiced doing this.

Base 5e assumption is that undead are evil, it isn't something a DM needs to specifically bring up. If a player wants it to not be evil then they should bring it up to the DM.


Love it! And introduces an extra encounter if they trigger it :D

I'm going to write up a mud elemental in a bit once I get my report submitted.

Note:

Earth Elemental get earthglide, they won't care about unworked dirt.

Water Elementals get a swim speed.

Mud Elementals would be able to move through mud without penalty to movement.

[Douche]

Ooooh mud elementals, so scaaaary! Please don't hurt us, o great vertically-challenged god of mud!

(I'm just kidding, btw. But if I was a bad*** necromancer, that'd totally be my reaction)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Ooooh mud elementals, so scaaaary! Please don't hurt us, o great vertically-challenged god of mud!

(I'm just kidding, btw. But if I was a bad*** necromancer, that'd totally be my reaction)

My mud elemental (of an undead hating deity) would coat your physical undead and physically force them to attack you.

Essentially act as muscles and stuff and turn them against you. You would need to destroy the undead before the mud elemental was a targetable choice (they would go inside and or be considered a wearable item).

Perfect opportunity *oh shat* moment.

[BiPolar]

My mud elemental (of an undead hating deity) would coat your physical undead and physically force them to attack you.

Essentially act as muscles and stuff and turn them against you. You would need to destroy the undead before the mud elemental was a targetable choice (they would go inside and or be considered a wearable item).

Perfect opportunity *oh shat* moment.

That is EVEN BETTER! How do I do this? It seems like i'd need to bend the rules even more than just saying they've got difficult terrain while the monsters don't (who normally should.)

[Slipperychicken]

I dunno. If it was my temple, I'd just Hallow it (specify that undead cannot enter) and put up a sign listing prohibitions including "NO Undead Allowed!" next to an image of a skull with a red X over it.

I wonder what happens if you try to use a bag of holding to move undead into a hallowed area. Maybe they just can't emerge while the bag is in a hallowed place?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

That is EVEN BETTER! How do I do this? It seems like i'd need to bend the rules even more than just saying they've got difficult terrain while the monsters don't (who normally should.)

To give a good or great encounter it usually takes bending the rules.

Elementals typically ignore their element so it really isn't bending too much.

Encase

Grapple check, until the creature gets away from the mud elemental (grapple which is an action) all damage is divided between them and the mud elemental can use its action to make the creature move and attack (this attack can be any attack the mud elemental have seen the target use or is obvious). Use the mud elemental's stats for attacks, damages, and saves for both creatures.

This way a mud elemental can have a sort of defense (you wouldn't want to hurt your ally) and can switch up their attack types. The mud elemental could force a wizard to shoot off a cantrip or a fighter to use dueling style.

[BiPolar]

I dunno. If it was my temple, I'd just Hallow it (specify that undead cannot enter) and put up a sign listing prohibitions including "NO Undead Allowed!" next to an image of a skull with a red X over it.

I wonder what happens if you try to use a bag of holding to move undead into a hallowed area. Maybe they just can't emerge while the bag is in a hallowed place?

This is the safest bet and solves any issues within RAW. Thank you!

[MaxWilson]

I dunno. If it was my temple, I'd just Hallow it (specify that undead cannot enter) and put up a sign listing prohibitions including "NO Undead Allowed!" next to an image of a skull with a red X over it.

Dispel Magic > Hallow, annoyingly.

Dispel Magic is one of the more-broken aspects of 5E. It's an all-purpose bad stuff remover that works on too many things that it shouldn't work on (e.g. Geas IX, Imprisonment). I would prefer it if instead of "auto-success if cast at sufficient level, otherwise roll for a check" it were "auto-fail if insufficient level, otherwise roll for a check." That way it would take a Dispel Magic IX to dispel Imprisonment, which seems appropriate.

[BiPolar]

Dispel Magic > Hallow, annoyingly.

Dispel Magic is one of the more-broken aspects of 5E. It's an all-purpose bad stuff remover that works on too many things that it shouldn't work on.

True, thankfully no one in my party has it. Or has it prepared. I guess they could wait it out, but if they do, 30 earth elementals will suggest against continuing.

[MaxWilson]

True, thankfully no one in my party has it. Or has it prepared. I guess they could wait it out, but if they do, 30 earth elementals will suggest against continuing.

To me, "30 Earth Elementals" just looks like "a heaping pile of 54,000 XP." Hopefully your players don't see it similarly. :)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

To me, "30 Earth Elementals" just looks like "a heaping pile of 54,000 XP." Hopefully your players don't see it similarly. :)

That's why *Encase* makes the game a bit more challenging. You have to pull your allies out of the Mud Elemental or make sure you don't kill yourself.

Add in some really fun issues.

Though you may not want to throw in 30 at one time...




Mud Elemental
Large Elemental, neutral

Armor Class: 15
Hit Points: 119
Speed: 30’

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 20
Int: 5
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Damage Vulnerabilities: Lightning
Damage Resistances: Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing from non-magical weapons.
Damage Immunities: Poison
Condition Immunities: exhaustion, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, prone, restrained, unconscious.
Senses: Darkvision 60’, Passive Perception 10
Languages: Primordial

Mud Glide: The Mud Elemental can move through mud with no penalty to speed.
Freeze: Whenever the Mud Elemental takes cold damage the Mud elemental’s speed is reduced by 10’.

Actions

Multiattack
The Mud Elemental may make two attacks if it is not encasing an enemy.

Slam
Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5', one target
Hit: 13 (2d8 + 4) bludgeoning damage

If the Mud elemental attacks a creature that it has encased, the mud elemental takes half damage.

Encase
The Mud Elemental flows over a creature that is nor larger than medium size. The creature gains a grapple check, until the creature gets away from the mud elemental (grapple which is an action) all damage is divided between the two and the mud elemental can use its action to make the creature move and attack (this attack can be any attack the mud elemental have seen the target use or is obvious). For physical saving throws and physical attacks you use the Mud Elemental's stats, for cantrips you use the grappled creature's stats.

[Shining Wrath]

Mud elementals already exist: they are called Mephits.
Per MM, evil aligned. But Yolanda can obviously recruit the few good aligned ones out there to her cause.

If you don't want the mud elementals to take over the zombies / skeletons, because it raises the question why they can't coat and take over the actual PCs, a heretofore unannounced priest stepping out from behind the altar and performing a powerful Turn Undead that makes all the minions exit the building will give them an Oh No moment. Now you've got the PCs in difficult terrain, fighting creatures native to that terrain, and their undead allies are wading through the muck toward the door. In the mean time a powerful cleric stands by the altar - what will he do if the PCs win through? Should they negotiate with him?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Mud elementals already exist: they are called Mephits.
Per MM, evil aligned. But Yolanda can obviously recruit the few good aligned ones out there to her cause.

If you don't want the mud elementals to take over the zombies / skeletons, because it raises the question why they can't coat and take over the actual PCs, a heretofore unannounced priest stepping out from behind the altar and performing a powerful Turn Undead that makes all the minions exit the building will give them an Oh No moment. Now you've got the PCs in difficult terrain, fighting creatures native to that terrain, and their undead allies are wading through the muck toward the door. In the mean time a powerful cleric stands by the altar - what will he do if the PCs win through? Should they negotiate with him?

I changed it to a basic function they have, it can work on anyone that is smaller than them.

Mephits are a bit boring, I prefer to spice things up so that the players don't have to go through yet another "chunk of hp".

[MaxWilson]

Mud elementals already exist: they are called Mephits.
Per MM, evil aligned. But Yolanda can obviously recruit the few good aligned ones out there to her cause.

Or just, you know, keep the evil ones under control. In real life, chimpanzees are probably evil, and yet would a zoo exclude evil chimps from its walls?

Evil = selfish/malicious/unkind. There's a lot of evil people and things out there, and the best way for good people to interact with them is to be kind and show a good example. Yolanda could choose to do the same.

[HoarsHalberd]

To me, "30 Earth Elementals" just looks like "a heaping pile of 54,000 XP." Hopefully your players don't see it similarly. :)

"Divine Earth Elementals: Like normal but capable of simple tactics. Commonly emerge 10 ft away from enemies, smack them around with their multiattack, then fall back inside the dirt." Instead of 54,000 xp they are now negative however much xp your group has.

[Sigreid]

Isn't there a divine or druid spell for just exactly this?

[MaxWilson]

"Divine Earth Elementals: Like normal but capable of simple tactics. Commonly emerge 10 ft away from enemies, smack them around with their multiattack, then fall back inside the dirt." Instead of 54,000 xp they are now negative however much xp your group has.

Hello Divine Earth Elementals, meet PCs with better-than-simple tactics. For example, Careful Web from the Sorlock will prevent the elementals from retreating without impeding the PCs in any way.

Still looks like a big chunk of XP to me. Not necessarily an easy chunk of XP, but still very much worth harvesting.

[Slipperychicken]

Dispel Magic > Hallow, annoyingly.

Dispel Magic is one of the more-broken aspects of 5E. It's an all-purpose bad stuff remover that works on too many things that it shouldn't work on (e.g. Geas IX, Imprisonment). I would prefer it if instead of "auto-success if cast at sufficient level, otherwise roll for a check" it were "auto-fail if insufficient level, otherwise roll for a check." That way it would take a Dispel Magic IX to dispel Imprisonment, which seems appropriate.

I agree. I feel like hallow should only be countered by itself, like you need to desecrate the place. Either that, or it should take a dispel magic of the same level to counter it.

[HoarsHalberd]

Hello Divine Earth Elementals, meet PCs with better-than-simple tactics. For example, Careful Web from the Sorlock will prevent the elementals from retreating without impeding the PCs in any way.

Still looks like a big chunk of XP to me. Not necessarily an easy chunk of XP, but still very much worth harvesting.

Well in the case of any concentration based counter you either sacrifice an earth elemental or blitzkrieg the caster by surrounding him in 5 directions and attempt to force enough con saves to end the effect, or, ideally, down the squishy as rapidly as possible. With the ability to a party by emerging from walls, floors and ceilings the party won't be able to rest and recover slots/sorcerery points or even hitpoints, so eventually the ability to cast will be worn down before the 30 elementals run out, from there it's just frustration tactics. Something with earth glide is the most terrifying thing in the D&D world when Tucker-ified.

[MaxWilson]

Well in the case of any concentration based counter you either sacrifice an earth elemental or blitzkrieg the caster by surrounding him in 5 directions and attempt to force enough con saves to end the effect, or, ideally, down the squishy as rapidly as possible. With the ability to a party by emerging from walls, floors and ceilings the party won't be able to rest and recover slots/sorcerery points or even hitpoints, so eventually the ability to cast will be worn down before the 30 elementals run out, from there it's just frustration tactics. Something with earth glide is the most terrifying thing in the D&D world when Tucker-ified.

It would be fun, that's for sure. (Nightmare for the DM to run though.) You're overstating the elementals' efficacy though. They can't emerge into a rope trick, for example, and they can't effectively pursue fleeing PCs. So even if the PCs only kill half the elemental before running out of Webs/caltrops/Conjure Animals/Levitate/etc., they can just retreat, rest, and do it again tomorrow.

To me this sounds like a fun challenge, not a deterrent. It was supposed to be a deterrent.

[BiPolar]

The warning at the beginning was enough and they complied. Thankfully didn't have to encounter the Hallowed ground and have them get pissed.

[JackPhoenix]

That's why *Encase* makes the game a bit more challenging. You have to pull your allies out of the Mud Elemental or make sure you don't kill yourself.

Add in some really fun issues.

Though you may not want to throw in 30 at one time...




Mud Elemental
Large Elemental, neutral

Armor Class: 15
Hit Points: 119
Speed: 30’

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 20
Int: 5
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Damage Vulnerabilities: Lightning
Damage Resistances: Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing from non-magical weapons.
Damage Immunities: Poison
Condition Immunities: exhaustion, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, prone, restrained, unconscious.
Senses: Darkvision 60’, Passive Perception 10
Languages: Primordial

Mud Glide: The Mud Elemental can move through mud with no penalty to speed.
Freeze: Whenever the Mud Elemental takes cold damage the Mud elemental’s speed is reduced by 10’.

Actions

Multiattack
The Mud Elemental may make two attacks if it is not encasing an enemy.

Slam
Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5', one target
Hit: 13 (2d8 + 4) bludgeoning damage

If the Mud elemental attacks a creature that it has encased, the mud elemental takes half damage.

Encase
The Mud Elemental flows over a creature that is nor larger than medium size. The creature gains a grapple check, until the creature gets away from the mud elemental (grapple which is an action) all damage is divided between the two and the mud elemental can use its action to make the creature move and attack (this attack can be any attack the mud elemental have seen the target use or is obvious). For physical saving throws and physical attacks you use the Mud Elemental's stats, for cantrips you use the grappled creature's stats.


Why lightning vulnerability? Wouldn't fire make more sense, as it dries the mud and turns it into dust (or a statue)?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Why lightning vulnerability? Wouldn't fire make more sense, as it dries the mud and turns it into dust (or a statue)?

The water in the mud makes it easier for the mud elemental to be struck by it, also, lightning does produce heat (and is really just plasma but whatever) so it could "cook" it much like you might think fire would.

Take out the water and it's an earth elemental, take out the earth and its a water elemental.

Which this would be a great thing if your players though "I have an idea" but all it does is changes the creature to a new form.

Though I may change freeze to something that relies on fire damage just to make it a bit different and make it fun.

Evaporated: Whenever a Mud Elemental takes fire damage their speed is reduced by 10' until the end of their next turn when their natural water can be replenished

[JackPhoenix]

The water in the mud makes it easier for the mud elemental to be struck by it, also, lightning does produce heat (and is really just plasma but whatever) so it could "cook" it much like you might think fire would.

Take out the water and it's an earth elemental, take out the earth and its a water elemental.

Which this would be a great thing if your players though "I have an idea" but all it does is changes the creature to a new form.

Though I may change freeze to something that relies on fire damage just to make it a bit different and make it fun.

Evaporated: Whenever a Mud Elemental takes fire damage their speed is reduced by 10' until the end of their next turn when their natural water can be replenished

I see...I was wondering about your reasoning. How about keeping both Freeze and Evaporate, and give the elemental some advantage in exchange? Removing lightning vulnerability while its in a less watery state, for example? It could create an interesting tactical decision, you can slow the elemental down for a moment when you need to, but you'll remove its main weakness

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I see...I was wondering about your reasoning. How about keeping both Freeze and Evaporate, and give the elemental some advantage in exchange? Removing lightning vulnerability while its in a less watery state, for example? It could create an interesting tactical decision, you can slow the elemental down for a moment when you need to, but you'll remove its main weakness

While evaporated the Mud Elemental has a penalty to speed equal 10', can't be frozen, and looses its lightning vulnerability.

While frozen the Mud Elemental has a penalty to speed equal to 10', can't be evaporated, and may shoot ice shards as a ranged attack equal to its slam.

Something like this could be fun, players have to think a bit before just fireing off spells.