[3.5] Can you help me make the most overpowered Character possible

[TooMuchTIme]

I have played some D&D for several years with the same DM. They are generally good and are not exceedingly pedantic concerning every rule. Recently, I have joined a group with the most annoyingly nitpicky DM who follows the rules to the letter. We have not fully started the game yet, so I could make a new character. Do you guys have any advice for making a character that will make them regret their pedantry?

[ComaVision]

I don't think you realize what you're asking. It's entirely possible within the rules to have a character at 1st level with infinite ability scores.

[JNAProductions]

Look up Pun-Pun. That should do it.

[Troacctid]

This problem has been solved--it's possible to gain access to Wish at 1st level and parlay it into infinite loops. You probably don't want to go that route, though.

[TooMuchTIme]

This problem has been solved--it's possible to gain access to Wish at 1st level and parlay it into infinite loops. You probably don't want to go that route, though.

I was thinking something like that, but i was wondering if there was a way to do it with more finesse.

[ComaVision]

I was thinking something like that, but i was wondering if there was a way to do it with more finesse.

>Finesse
>Infinite ability scores

Pick one.

[Tvtyrant]

Play an Elan. Farm for profits until you can afford to have a wizard cast teleport through time on you. Farm aome more, rinse and repeat while moving steadily backwards in time. Get to before the universe started, now you are the strongest creature in existence.

[Troacctid]

Play an Elan. Farm for profits until you can afford to have a wizard cast teleport through time on you. Farm aome more, rinse and repeat while moving steadily backwards in time. Get to before the universe started, now you are the strongest creature in existence.

In this scenario, you die of old age at some point during your second millennium, so it seems bad.

[martixy]

In this scenario, you die of old age at some point during your second millennium, so it seems bad.

Buuuuut... Errata says Elans have no max age.
Also: Wedded to History.

[ryu]

In this scenario, you die of old age at some point during your second millennium, so it seems bad.

There are methods for getting rid of that pesky mortality and you know it.

[Tvtyrant]

In this scenario, you die of old age at some point during your second millennium, so it seems bad.

Elans live forever.

[Beheld]

I have played some D&D for several years with the same DM. They are generally good and are not exceedingly pedantic concerning every rule. Recently, I have joined a group with the most annoyingly nitpicky DM who follows the rules to the letter. We have not fully started the game yet, so I could make a new character. Do you guys have any advice for making a character that will make them regret their pedantry?

Step 1: Gather Money in some way.
Step 2: Buy a Candle of invocation, be extremely nitpicky about the DMG rules for item availability.
Step 3: Gate in Efferti.
Step 4: Explain how Gate works, with nitpicking.
Step 5: Explain how Wishing for magic items works, with nitpicking.
Step 6: Explain how the rules in Epic Handbook provide for bonuses greater than +6.
Step 7: Have your Efferti Wish for a Belt of Magnificence +9000000000000000.
Step 8: Have your Efferti Wish for a staff of wishes with a googleplex of XP invested in each wish.
Step 9: Explain how SLA wishes have no XP cost for the above.
Step 10: Win init with your +4500000000000000 Init check.
Step 11: Punch things in the face with your +4500000000000000 AB for 1d3+4500000000000000 damage.
Step 12: Make all saves with your +4500000000000000 save modifiers, and dodge all attacks with your +4500000000000000 touch AC from Dex.
Step 13: Occasionally use your staff of wishes to cast spells by UMD with a caster level of +4500000000000000, that's 3125 days per casting of Foresight, so that you aren't deprived of your Dex bonus to AC.

[Vaz]

Use the Elven Generalist with Flaws to pick up 9th level spells at 1st level.

Take a partially charged wand of wall of salt. Make walls of salt, mine, and sell. Make money, rinse and repeat. Voila, infinite moolah, or the way to go until you can get a better way of getting extra gear. Use your money to locate an Epic Bard with Words of Creation and Epic Inspiration to gain +5 HD. Have polymorph cast on you to transform into a Least Dusk Giant, and just eat things until you advance to a higher HD level. Gain infinite skills after hiring castings of Psychic Reformation. Advance to 21HD. Pick up Epic Spellcasting as your feat.

Create any spell you want, then throw on the Healing Seed, making it instantaneous. It now lasts forever, and cannot be dispelled. It can have infinite DC, because you'll mitigate with infinite amounts in reverse by using your infinite money and infinite social skills to bring people to donate spellslots. Have the first one take the form of a Sarrukh, and Wish that you were in Toril, followed bybeing considered a native one of Toril, and shabam.

The multiverse (and the rest) are yours.

[Cruiser1]

I was thinking something like that, but i was wondering if there was a way to do it with more finesse.
Priya the Prismatic Priestess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280365-Priya-the-Prismatic-Priestess-Buffs-Across-the-Spectrum) is one of the most powerful builds, but has finesse because it doesn't rely on any single obvious gimmick (such as XP free wishes for arbitrarily powerful items, or Pun-Pun's Calvinball-like "I give myself an arbitrary feat that's any ability I can imagine". Priya's power is the effect of using and chaining together normal abilities intelligently, as opposed to overpowered abilities themselves. For example, Priya has:


Infinite spells: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?212739-Absorption-Never-run-out-of-spells-again!) Not from any direct ability, but rather applying Repeat Spell to Absorption, so you spend one spell and get two spells in return.
Infinite time: Not from any infinite Time Stop ability, but rather continually casting Time Stop again (see "Infinite Spells") before the current one ends.
Infinite actions in a row: Use Greater Arcane Fusion on two Celerities, to spend one standard action to get two in return. (See "Infinite Time" and "Infinite Spells" to keep it going forever.)
Infinite wishes: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?268501-3-5-Metamagic-Wish-Wishing-for-Infinite-Wishes) You can wish for infinite +100000000 weapons, not from any XP free wish abuse, but rather applying Repeat Spell and Twin Spell to Wish (gaining more XP than you spend) to manually build up XP in a scroll of Wish, so you cast it yourself with all XP costs covered.

[ThisIsZen]

Since the answers you were looking for have already been given, I'm going to take a different tack:

Don't do this. You're trying to play a game no one wins, and one you absolutely can't win since the DM is more powerful than Pun Pun. In the middle are the other players who are going to have their experience harmed by your Infinite Power Revenge Exercise.

Everyone loses this sort of thing. If the group isn't to your taste, leave. If you like the group but have some issues with the DM, talk to them.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Since the answers you were looking for have already been given, I'm going to take a different tack:

Don't do this. You're trying to play a game no one wins, and one you absolutely can't win since the DM is more powerful than Pun Pun. In the middle are the other players who are going to have their experience harmed by your Infinite Power Revenge Exercise.

Everyone loses this sort of thing. If the group isn't to your taste, leave. If you like the group but have some issues with the DM, talk to them.
This. Soo much this. I'm sure a RAW-strict group has heard about at least things like Pun-Pun, and I'm positive that making a RAW-legal character more powerful than anyone else in the party will only lead to tears. At worst, I'd say, you should look for a build that depends on a RAW-stupid but not overpowered gimmick. (For an example, activating Skirmish by making a DC 20 Fast Mount check to hop on a horse, let the horse move, then make another DC 20 Fast Dismount check and full attack with a bow. The text only prohibits multiple melee attacks)


Infinite spells: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?212739-Absorption-Never-run-out-of-spells-again!) Not from any direct ability, but rather applying Repeat Spell to Absorption, so you spend one spell and get two spells in return.
Doesn't that not work until ~17th level, though? That's a long time before your infinities come into play. (I mean, you're still one of the most powerful classes in the game using some of the most powerful PrCs in the game, but still).

[GnomishPride]

I have some experience with infinite loops: they are not fun. No other player can compete, and thus don't have fun. Any and all challenges (except those also abusing infinite loops) are overcome instantaneously, so it's not really a challenge anymore. Any plot that the DM makes is immediately completed by your infinitely powerful character. Again: not fun. Sure it's fun at first as you test the limits of your power, but it quickly fades as nothing is interesting anymore. (I speak from experience here)
If I were you, I'd build a well-optimized, slightly cheesy Tier 1 guy who can be super effective but still allows everyone to have fun and actually play the game instead of steamrolling it.
Though there a handful of infinitely powerful characters, there's a practically infinite amount of well-optimized ones, so you shouldn't have trouble finding one that's right for you. :smallsmile:

[ben-zayb]

If you don't prefer trite TO tricks relying on 9th level spell effects like early Wishes, you can always go for the Naughty Sorceress (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430414-Naughty-Sorceress-(Level-8-Miracle-Wish-Gate-Shapechange-Sarrukh-Wealth-Pact-free-TO)), which is likely the 2nd closest thing to Pun-Pun (first being the Symbiote Commoner 1) that doesn't necessarily rely on the aforementioned 9th-level shenanigans or being a Sarrukh.

[martixy]

I have some experience with infinite loops: they are not fun. No other player can compete, and thus don't have fun. Any and all challenges (except those also abusing infinite loops) are overcome instantaneously, so it's not really a challenge anymore. Any plot that the DM makes is immediately completed by your infinitely powerful character. Again: not fun. Sure it's fun at first as you test the limits of your power, but it quickly fades as nothing is interesting anymore. (I speak from experience here)
If I were you, I'd build a well-optimized, slightly cheesy Tier 1 guy who can be super effective but still allows everyone to have fun and actually play the game instead of steamrolling it.
Though there a handful of infinitely powerful characters, there's a practically infinite amount of well-optimized ones, so you shouldn't have trouble finding one that's right for you. :smallsmile:
Second that.

On the same note, I'm a big fan of trump-card characters. A character that plays very standardly, but has a trump up their sleeve. The more of those you manage to stuff in that sleeve, and your pants and your hat, the better. And the moment the DM threatens you with a TPK, you unroll that sleeve.

[Graypairofsocks]

If you don't prefer trite TO tricks relying on 9th level spell effects like early Wishes, you can always go for the Naughty Sorceress (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430414-Naughty-Sorceress-(Level-8-Miracle-Wish-Gate-Shapechange-Sarrukh-Wealth-Pact-free-TO)), which is likely the 2nd closest thing to Pun-Pun (first being the Symbiote Commoner 1) that doesn't necessarily rely on the aforementioned 9th-level shenanigans or being a Sarrukh.

Where can I find the "Symbiote Commoner 1"?

[Velaryon]

Since the answers you were looking for have already been given, I'm going to take a different tack:

Don't do this. You're trying to play a game no one wins, and one you absolutely can't win since the DM is more powerful than Pun Pun. In the middle are the other players who are going to have their experience harmed by your Infinite Power Revenge Exercise.

Everyone loses this sort of thing. If the group isn't to your taste, leave. If you like the group but have some issues with the DM, talk to them.

How appropriate that ThisIsZen is totally the voice of reason here. :smallsmile:

It's absolutely not a good idea to stick it to your gaming group by breaking the game with a technically-RAW-legal-but-totally-BS broken build. Not if you want to remain any kind of friends with these people or ever game with them again, anyway. Why not try and talk to them about why you think they should loosen up on their pedantry? Maybe cite some examples of how the rules can allow some insanely broken things like people are mentioning in this thread, and use that as an argument that common sense should be applied to the rules, even when it means bending or changing them?

[ben-zayb]

Where can I find the "Symbiote Commoner 1"?There's not much to "find", because I didn't make a thread for it as it's elegantly simple and self-explanatory enough: Symbiotic (Hagunemnon guest + <insert your starting symbiote-compliant race> host) Commoner 1.

EDIT: Since naming builds is a thing, let's try that...Dr. Jekyll? Course, you might have to change it to another NPC class to be more flavor-appropriate.