natural 20

[khachaturian]

In 5E, the player's handbook describes three sets of rolls that use a d20

- attack
- ability check
- save

I couldn't find the reference for whether a natural 1 or 20 was an auto fail/succeed in any or all of these rolls.

Help please!

[SpawnOfMorbo]

In 5E, the player's handbook describes three sets of rolls that use a d20

- attack
- ability check
- save

I couldn't find the reference for whether a natural 1 or 20 was an auto fail/succeed in any or all of these rolls.

Help please!

Only on attack rolls is a 20 (or if champion fighter 19 and then 18) a critical. This means that you automatically hit.

Some features (paralyzation) let's your attack automatically critical so those are automatic hits too.

Everything else, unless there was a change I don't know about and I'm remembering wrong, doesn't care what you roll as long as you beat the DC.

Edit

Attack rolls and natural 1s... In all honesty I've never used them as auto fails (auto failing 5% of the time is horribly unimmersive that it's just... Yeah no) that I don't recall what the rule is for 5e.

[Talamare]

p194 mentions it for attacks

[SpawnOfMorbo]

p194 mentions it for attacks

I'm the SRD it is on 94, I find the page difference mildly interesting (100 pages exactly).

1 always misses.

20 always hits.

Attacks only.

[MaxWilson]

Only on attack rolls is a 20 (or if champion fighter 19 and then 18) a critical. This means that you automatically hit.

Some features (paralyzation) let's your attack automatically critical so those are automatic hits too.

No, you only crit a paralyzed creature if you actually hit it (at close range). Quote:


Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if
the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.

You still have to roll to hit.

[MeeposFire]

THe auto hit feature and the critical hit are actually separate bonuses.

Under the description for what happens on a natural 20 it says essentially that it automatically hits and in addition it also scores a critical hit. Things can be an auto hit or a critical hit or both. It depends on the situation.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

No, you only crit a paralyzed creature if you actually hit it (at close range). Quote:



You still have to roll to hit.

Kinda circular logic and I think they screwed this up a bit due to wording...

A critical is an automatic hit. The only way you wouldn't hit is if something was stopping you rom doing so which I don't think anything can. A penalty can't negate a critical hit, so even if you rolled less than a target's AC, due to cutting words, or whatever, you still would critical.

The only place it talks about critical is when it explains what a critical does and when talking about automatic hits. The only time it talks about automatic hits is when it calls it a critical.

"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this chapter."

You automatically critical on your attack if you hit, but a critical is an automatic hit. It goes round and round. Unless I'm missing the section where critical aren't automatic hits and automatic hits aren't criticals?

I'm not saying that this is RAW or RAI cause I don't care that much about it, but I'm saying that they need to fix this wording because someone can take it this way quite easily.

[MeeposFire]

Kinda circular logic and I think they screwed this up a bit due to wording...

A critical is an automatic hit. The only way you wouldn't hit is if something was stopping you rom doing so which I don't think anything can. A penalty can't negate a critical hit, so even if you rolled less than a target's AC, due to cutting words, or whatever, you still would critical.

The only place it talks about critical is when it explains what a critical does and when talking about automatic hits. The only time it talks about automatic hits is when it calls it a critical.

"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this chapter."

You automatically critical on your attack if you hit, but a critical is an automatic hit. It goes round and round. Unless I'm missing the section where critical aren't automatic hits and automatic hits aren't criticals?

I'm not saying that this is RAW or RAI cause I don't care that much about it, but I'm saying that they need to fix this wording because someone can take it this way quite easily.

Wait a second if you are going to paraphrase you really should indicate it because that is NOT the quote from the book. I will list the whole quote.

"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. In addition, the attack is a critical hit, as explained later in the chapter."

In the quote it shows that the atuo hit and the critical are not the same thing though in the case of a natural 20 it does do both. They are not intrinsically linked in all cases. There are plenty of cases in the game where you need to roll and hit before you get to score a critical hit. For example the assassin level 3 ability requires you to roll and hit before you get the critical it is not automatic.

[bid]

A critical is an automatic hit.
Nope.

Rolling 20 is a critical hit, but there are other ways to get a critical:
- champion rolling 19
- assassinate used on surprised target
- paralyzed creature
All of those require a hit roll.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Wait a second if you are going to paraphrase you really should indicate it because that is NOT the quote from the book. I will list the whole quote.

"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. In addition, the attack is a critical hit, as explained later in the chapter."

In the quote it shows that the atuo hit and the critical are not the same thing though in the case of a natural 20 it does do both. They are not intrinsically linked in all cases. There are plenty of cases in the game where you need to roll and hit before you get to score a critical hit. For example the assassin level 3 ability requires you to roll and hit before you get the critical it is not automatic.

What I put in quotes was from the srd about rolling a natural 20.

I copied and pasted (and then backspace a bunch of extra spaces that showed up) straight from the srd.

That is the only place I saw it talk about crits and auto hits. Later it tells you what a critical does (damage wise) but what I quoted was from the srd about crits being auto hits.

Edit

They have said already that a champion auto crits / hits on their expanded critical. 18 or 19 for a champion is an auto hit because it is a critical hit.

Also, as I've said, they use circular logic/phrasing and don't really explain an auto hit outside of a critical. The only mention to auto hit in the srd is the critical hit.

[MeeposFire]

What I put in quotes was from the srd about rolling a natural 20.

I copied and pasted (and then backspace a bunch of extra spaces that showed up) straight from the srd.

That is the only place I saw it talk about crits and auto hits. Later it tells you what a critical does (damage wise) but what I quoted was from the srd about crits being auto hits.

Then the SRD is paraphrasing and it shouldn't because the words that were omitted are kind of important to this discussion. My quote is direct word for word from the PHB and it is an important difference.

Critical hits are not automatic hits that is a separate ability. A natural 20 gets both of those but they are not otherwise linked by default.

[coredump]

Kinda circular logic and I think they screwed this up a bit due to wording...

A critical is an automatic hit. The only way you wouldn't hit is if something was stopping you rom doing so which I don't think anything can. A penalty can't negate a critical hit, so even if you rolled less than a target's AC, due to cutting words, or whatever, you still would critical.

No. Not at all. Someone even quoted the pertinent Paralyzed rules.
*IF* you hit, that hit is considered a Critical hit. If you don't hit, there is no effect.

So if you hit on a 13, then that is a crit. If you miss on an 8, nothing happens.

You are reading them as if they say "every attack gives a critical hit", but that is *not* the rule.




Attack rolls and natural 1s... In all honesty I've never used them as auto fails (auto failing 5% of the time is horribly unimmersive that it's just... Yeah no) that I don't recall what the rule is for 5e.
This doesn't make much sense to me.
1) It hardly ever matters, since a 1 will miss in almost every situation anyway.
2) In the situations where it would matter, if you use it it means you miss 5% of the time. If you don't use it, it means you hit every single attack, guaranteed. Which I think is even less 'immersive' than rarely missing.




As for the hit/critical issue.... while they are not defined as linked, it often works out that way.
Champion, for instance, says if you roll a 19 you get a critical hit. Which means a 19 hits, and it is a critical. The Champion rules does *not* have the same wording as paralyzed. It does *not* say "if you hit with a 19, it is becomes a critical hit". So in this case, rolling a 19 always gives you a hit, and it is always a critical hit
Assassinate, OTOH, has the Paralyzed wording. It says 'if' you get a hit, it becomes a critical hit. So in that case you have to hit first.

[JoeJ]

As others have pointed out, it's only automatic success/failure on attack rolls. That said, it generally comes out to be the same thing on ability checks because if success is not in doubt the DM shouldn't be asking for a roll. So in a sense 1 is always failure on an ability check and 20 is always success, with the critical caveat that it only applies if the DM has actually called for the roll. The player can't just decide to roll the dice and force the DM to accept the result.

[Talamare]

As for the hit/critical issue.... while they are not defined as linked, it often works out that way.
Champion, for instance, says if you roll a 19 you get a critical hit. Which means a 19 hits, and it is a critical. The Champion rules does *not* have the same wording as paralyzed. It does *not* say "if you hit with a 19, it is becomes a critical hit". So in this case, rolling a 19 always gives you a hit, and it is always a critical hit
Assassinate, OTOH, has the Paralyzed wording. It says 'if' you get a hit, it becomes a critical hit. So in that case you have to hit first.

Ah, but does it say that Criticals are Hits?
If the Champion is facing someone with 100 AC, and Crits them but does not Hit them?

Would the target then take the Critical Damage, but no other effects from being Hit?

[Rhaegar]

Ah, but does it say that Criticals are Hits?
If the Champion is facing someone with 100 AC, and Crits them but does not Hit them?

Would the target then take the Critical Damage, but no other effects from being Hit?

This makes no sense. A Critical Hit by definition is a hit, the word hit is in it's name. In the PHB every place they talk about critical, the word critical is immediately followed by the word hit.

And if you Somehow Crit without hitting, that would be a critical miss, and there are no critical misses in 5e.

[CantigThimble]

Some features (paralyzation) let's your attack automatically critical so those are automatic hits too.

SRD pg. 193:
"Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if
the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature."

It needs to hit before it's a critical, same as the assassin feature.