Whirlwind attack and Strikes (TOB)

[ObnoxiousKender]

Quick info. I have a current character who is a Fighter(5)/weapon Master(7)/Warblade(1) (Currently level 13) and I was looking around at Whirlwind attack and have seen some of the things you can do with it, such as tripping everyone with it.

My question is can I initiate a strike; such as Ruby Nightmare Blade for example, and a whirlwind attack on the same round effectively hitting everyone I threaten with the strike. I vaguely remember being able to do so, but I can't find a clear answer. And if I can, really what is stopping me from using whirlwind attack and Mithril Tornado or Adamantine Hurricane. Because if so that's 3 attacks (Using Adamantine Hurricane) all made at my highest attack bonus against at most eight opponents. And that's ridiculous.

I know you can do this with a boost as that uses a swift action, so no questions there.
So does this work?
Thanks.

[Troacctid]

No. Whirlwind Attack requires you to use a full attack action. Strikes typically require a standard action. These actions are incompatible.

The only actions you can substitute for the attacks in your Whirlwind Attack are those that specifically replace melee attacks: grapple, trip, or disarm.

[Necroticplague]

Quick info. I have a current character who is a Fighter(5)/weapon Master(7)/Warblade(1) (Currently level 13) and I was looking around at Whirlwind attack and have seen some of the things you can do with it, such as tripping everyone with it.

My question is can I initiate a strike; such as Ruby Nightmare Blade for example, and a whirlwind attack on the same round effectively hitting everyone I threaten with the strike. I vaguely remember being able to do so, but I can't find a clear answer. And if I can, really what is stopping me from using whirlwind attack and Mithril Tornado or Adamantine Hurricane. Because if so that's 3 attacks (Using Adamantine Hurricane) all made at my highest attack bonus against at most eight opponents. And that's ridiculous.

I know you can do this with a boost as that uses a swift action, so no questions there.
So does this work?
Thanks.

Action economy. Strikes aren't attack actions, they're some other specific action type. Whirlwind Attack is it's own distinct action as well (a full-round action). Thus, you can't do this for the exact same reason that you can't cast a spell and use a maneuver at the same time.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You can use a boost, like Raging Mongoose or Covering Strike, with a whirlwind attack. Raging Mongoose won't allow you to attack each target an extra four times, but it will give you four extra attacks, which you can use as normal.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Obligatory reminder that as it is a full attack action, you can 5 ft step in the middle of a Whirlwind Attack and keep going. It can also be used with pounce...and since pounce triggers off a charge, you don't even necessarily need to have had a full round action that turn to begin with ("partial charge").


You can use a boost, like Raging Mongoose or Covering Strike, with a whirlwind attack. Raging Mongoose won't allow you to attack each target an extra four times, but it will give you four extra attacks, which you can use as normal.

"When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

Actually, I don't think you do get them... Whirlwind Attack would be decent with the divine spirit boost that makes foes provoke AoOs for 1 round if they attack anyone other than you, though.

[Necroticplague]

Obligatory reminder that as it is a full attack action, you can 5 ft step in the middle of a Whirlwind Attack and keep going. It can also be used with pounce...and since pounce triggers off a charge, you don't even necessarily need to have had a full round action that turn to begin with ("partial charge").

A whirlwind attack is a full-round action, not a type of full attack. Pounce won't let you Whirwind Attack at the end of a charge. Also, 'partial charge' isn't really a thing. You can charge when limited to a standard or move, but you can't simply charge as a standard action at any time.

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
EDIT:Huh. Color me suprised. it actually is a type of full attack. That would mean that, in certain cases, maneuvers that allow you to make a full-attack actually would allow you to use a whirlwind attack as part of them. So you could use two Whirlwind Attacks in one turn via Time Stands Still.

[ExLibrisMortis]

"When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

Actually, I don't think you do get them... Whirlwind Attack would be decent with the divine spirit boost that makes foes provoke AoOs for 1 round if they attack anyone other than you, though.
That's a good point. Raging Mongoose specifies that you get 'an additional two attacks', clearly not allowed as part of a Whirlwind full attack. However, Whirlwind Attack's restriction presumably applies to the full attack action only (it does not prevent you from taking AoOs, and it does not affect the second full attack you get from Time Stands Still), so you may be able to Whirlwind Attack, then activate Raging Mongoose as a swift action, and make your 'extra attacks' after the initial full attack has been completed. That essentially requires the interpretation that Raging Mongoose's 'extra attacks' are extra in the turn, rather than in the action.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Also, 'partial charge' isn't really a thing. You can charge when limited to a standard or move, but you can't simply charge as a standard action at any time.

EDIT:Huh. Color me suprised. it actually is a type of full attack. That would mean that, in certain cases, maneuvers that allow you to make a full-attack actually would allow you to use a whirlwind attack as part of them. So you could use two Whirlwind Attacks in one turn via Time Stands Still.

Well, that's what I meant. When unable to take a full round action, if you have pounce you could still WWA. There are also Boots of the Battle Charger in MIC to charge as a standard 2/day (you have to pay a swift action to use them, though).

And yeah, being a full attack instead of a full round action is by far the most interesting quality of the feat. I always thought it'd be fun to combine WWA with a level 13 Duskblade's ability to channel a touch spell on every hit of a full attack, and combine *that* with Dervish's dervish dance to move between each hit of a full attack to do a really awesome anime-like magical attack that "hits the whole screen." Requires a lot of levels, though. It'd be much easier if Paimon's (Binder vestige) dance of death was worded slightly differently... You get the feat for free from Paimon and a near-identical dervish dance w/ only a 3 level dip. Unfortunately, it's only "near"-identical to dervish dance...


That's a good point. Raging Mongoose specifies that you get 'an additional two attacks', clearly not allowed as part of a Whirlwind full attack. However, Whirlwind Attack's restriction presumably applies to the full attack action only (it does not prevent you from taking AoOs, and it does not affect the second full attack you get from Time Stands Still), so you may be able to Whirlwind Attack, then activate Raging Mongoose as a swift action, and make your 'extra attacks' after the initial full attack has been completed. That essentially requires the interpretation that Raging Mongoose's 'extra attacks' are extra in the turn, rather than in the action.

I'd be open to that, just warning that many DMs would probably shut it down.

[ObnoxiousKender]

Alrighty. That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks!
What that still apply if I had the Ki Whirlwind class feature from Weapon Master, which allows me to make a whirlwind attack as a standard action instead of a full attack action?

[Khedrac]

You have a choice - do you make the standard action that is the whirlwind attack or the standard action that is a strike - still cannot do both.

What's more, if you use a belt of battle for an extra standard action, they are still separate standard actions so you get a whirlwind and a strike - but they are separate.

[Troacctid]

You could take 5 levels of War Mind to automatically make all of your strikes into mini-Whirlwind Attacks, though.

[ObnoxiousKender]

Alright, that answers all my questions.
Thanks guys!