Greater Dieties and Attack Rolls.

[Graypairofsocks]

When a Greater Deity makes an attack roll it is treated as if they rolled a 20 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#alwaysMaximizeRoll).

Does this mean the roll is treated as a Natural 20 and they automatically hit?

It also says to also roll a d20 to "check for a threat of a critical hit".
Does this mean to check if the attack is a critical hit, or to check if the attack threatens a critical hit?

[ExLibrisMortis]

The rules are contradictory (or rather, there is an exception), but what I get is this: They automatically hit (roll a 20), and they automatically confirm critical hits (roll a 20), but they do not automatically threaten, as that is an exception specifically called out ("You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for a threat of a critical hit.").

[Necroticplague]

When a Greater Deity makes an attack roll it is treated as if they rolled a 20 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#alwaysMaximizeRoll).

Does this mean the roll is treated as a Natural 20 and they automatically hit?

It also says to also roll a d20 to "check for a threat of a critical hit".
Does this mean to check if the attack is a critical hit, or to check if the attack threatens a critical hit?

They automatically hit, no questions asked. They 'rolled' a nat 20, that's always a hit. However, they still roll a d20 to see if they threaten a critical hit. If they do threaten, they automatically succeed the confirmation roll (which is an attack roll, that they always roll 20 on).

[MisterKaws]

From the same page:


When a greater deity makes a check, attack, or save assume a 20 was rolled and calculate success or failure from there.

This means you still need to check success or failure, they don't roll a "natural" 20, it's an unnatural result brought about by their divinity, thus they still need to check if they do a "real" nat 20 or crit.

[Aleolus]

It says to 'assume a 20 was rolled'. When a 20 is rolled on an attack or save it is an automatic success. Therefore, Greater Deities. automatically succeed on attacks and saves. The actual roll for attacking is therefore technically the crit confirmation roll

[ExLibrisMortis]

It says to 'assume a 20 was rolled'. When a 20 is rolled on an attack or save it is an automatic success. Therefore, Greater Deities. automatically succeed on attacks and saves. The actual roll for attacking is therefore technically the crit confirmation roll
That's not what the text says, however. It says that you should roll a d20 despite the fact that the result of the attack roll is known (20, automatic hit), to check for a threat, not a confirmed critical hit. Since this is the only exception that is called out, the confirmation roll, as a normal d20 roll, automatically succeeds.

[Extra Anchovies]

Here are the two relevant bits from the SRD:

When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a threat. The hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make a critical roll—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the critical roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.(link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits))
Greater deities (rank 16-20) automatically get the best result possible on any check, saving throw, attack roll, or damage roll. Calculate success, failure, or other effects accordingly. When a greater deity makes a check, attack, or save assume a 20 was rolled and calculate success or failure from there. A d20 should still be rolled and used to check for a threat of a critical hit. This quality means that greater deities never need the Maximize Spell feat, because their spells have maximum effect already.(link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#alwaysMaximizeRoll))

So their attacks always hit against their target's AC (which still allows for non-AC attack negation, like miss chance or the Manticore Parry maneuver), and their critical hits are always confirmed. But the fourth sentence of the second quoted passage specifically calls out the need to still roll a d20 and use it to check for a critical hit - and its specific overrides the previous sentence's general. Whoever's rolling dice for the deity still needs to roll a d20; if the d20 roll would result in a threat, the deity hits against their target's AC, confirms the critical hit, and (in the absence of immunity to extra damage from crits on the part of the target) deals maximized critical damage, while if the d20 roll would not result in a threat, the deity hits against their target's AC and deals maximized normal damage. The d20 roll to check for a threat doesn't need to also be high enough to result in a hit against the target's AC, because it's already a hit.

(link (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Wakerlink.jpg))

[MisterKaws]

When a greater deity makes a check, attack, or save assume a 20 was rolled and calculate success or failure from there.

It's explicitly saying to calculate success or failure, even though a natural 20 is usually an automatic success, no going around that.

[Necroticplague]

It's explicitly saying to calculate success or failure, even though a natural 20 is usually an automatic success, no going around that.

That's because the statement also applies to checks. Saves and attacks always succeed on nat 20's (which they always roll). However, if you're rolling something like a skill check or any type of opposed check (such as grapple, bull rush, trip checks), or any miscelaneous check (i.e, CON check to hold breath), it's possible to still fail on a nat 20. In these situations, they still fail.

[Âmesang]

I was under the impression that one would have to roll the die to check for automatic success, and if you rolled any number between 1 and 19 you'd ignore it and just add 20 to whatever it is you're rolling for.

…otherwise I may have to rewrite my summon Loki epic spell. :smalleek:

[danddbard]

i think it means they will always hit, but you should roll after every hit to see if they crit

[Âmesang]

Turns out I was under that impression 'cause that's what was said in the Deities and Demigods FAQ. :smalltongue:

[MisterKaws]

Turns out I was under that impression 'cause that's what was said in the Deities and Demigods FAQ. :smalltongue:

Usually the FAQ is questionable, but on this case, I think it's better to go along with their opinion.

[Graypairofsocks]

Usually the FAQ is questionable, but on this case, I think it's better to go along with their opinion.

I also think we should go with his ruling in this case.
Skip Williams* was apparently one of the authors for "Deities and Demigods" as well.

*He is the guy who writes the FAQs.