Limb removal and HP damage

[CrimsonOvercoat]

During my weekly game I plan to throw some demons at my group who grapple and then attempt to cut off limbs one at a time with demonic bonesaws. They tie off the limb to limit blood loss, but remove the limb in three rounds if not stopped. How much HP damage per round do you think is reasonable for rapid limb removal with tools built specificallly for the job? This is a side quest for OotA.

[pwykersotz]

I would probably have it do normal attack damage for their CR and keep the limb loss as a separate thing. I've seen and tried out a lot of systems where people try to tie a limb to a certain percentage of hp, but I've always been disappointed by them in action.

[Sitri]

Rather than tie off the limbs, I would have the tools so hot it cauterizes the wounds. I know this isn't what you were asking, but the time factor would feel better to me as a player.

As far as damage, wow, there should be some damage tied to it, but the losing a limb bit sounds like a pretty bit hit on its own. If you are going for realism, I would think it would pretty much take them out of the fight, if you are going for game balance, I would do something much smaller.

[Sir cryosin]

Divide there hp by 6
2 legs
2 arms
1 Head and neck
1 torso
If your damage is more then the damge a Lim has then it is cut off. So if Plat has 6hp each part has 1 hp if you do 9 damage when targeting the arm then you cut it off if you do more damage the hp the extra damage is lost it don't get carried over. So after losing that arm the player still had 5 hp left. How about that is this something you would like to to.

[Spectre9000]

Limb Removal is a pretty painful business. Seeing as in 5e reducing HP to 0 doesn't kill you and just knocks you unconscious I would say, since you want to do it in 3 rounds, that it does 33% Max HP damage per round or something to the effect where the character goes unconscious when the limb is severed due to being dropped to 0 HP, unless the person makes a DC 20 Con saving throw, in which case they're only reduced to 1 HP. The reduction to 0 HP would be considered non-lethal as I would imagine the demons want the person to experience the full pain of limb loss.

HP in 5e is simply how much punishment you can take before you're down and out, not necessarily mortal wounds, though you can obviously die from your injury's if you fail your death saving throws 3 times, but even this is geared towards you succeeding.


My question to you, however, is, will it be fun for your players who become cripples? Things happen in D&D and crippling injuries are part of that, but this seems kinda cruel for even D&D standards.

[Belac93]

Divide there hp by 6
With the method you are suggesting, a level 1 sorcerer or wizard with 9 constitution would start missing a body part. Also, why would you ever target anything but the head or torso? How does an AoE work?

I would say just make him take the damage as if he had gotten hit normally, and make the arm separate.

[Spiryt]

Limb Removal is a pretty painful business. Seeing as in 5e reducing HP to 0 doesn't kill you and just knocks you unconscious I would say,.


Yeah, and it's like that in 3.5 as well....

In general, going down to like -5 in D&D is a condition you can shrug off with few days of rest, potentially even without help.

So all in all, losing a limb is something that likely brings character almost to death. Character is without doubt disabled, I would say.

[CrimsonOvercoat]

Lesser restoration should bring back the limb, if I'm correct. I want more terror than permanence. I'll also allow magical healing to reattach the limb if it's "attached" at the time of healing.

[Flashy]

Lesser restoration should bring back the limb, if I'm correct. I want more terror than permanence.

This is a totally fine approach and you are 100% allowed to run it that way if you want to, but just to be clear by RAW the only way to restore the limb of a living target is the 7th level spell Regenerate. Officially Lesser Restoration only removes a disease or ends the deafened, blinded, paralyzed, or poisoned conditions.

[Spectre9000]

Lesser restoration should bring back the limb, if I'm correct. I want more terror than permanence. I'll also allow magical healing to reattach the limb if it's "attached" at the time of healing.

If you want to be attaching and detaching limbs, might want to look at the Crawling Claw in the MM pg. 44. Might give you some ideas. Adventurers aren't called Murder Hobos for no reason.


Living Claws. If a crawling claw is animated from the severed hand of a still-living murderer, the ritual binds the claw to the murderer's soul. The disembodied hand can then return to its former limb, its undead flesh knitting to the living arm from which it was severed. Made whole again, the murderer acts as though the hand had never been severed and the ritual had never taken place. When the crawling claw separates again, the living body falls into a coma. Destroying the crawling claw while it is away from the body kills the murderer. However, killing the murderer has no effect on the crawling claw.

[RickAllison]

One condition that could be applied with using Lesser Restoration is needing the limb itself. If you have the thing to attach back, it is realistically easier (if they take the limb, tough toenails).

[MaxWilson]

This is a totally fine approach and you are 100% allowed to run it that way if you want to, but just to be clear by RAW the only way to restore the limb of a living target is the 7th level spell Regenerate. Officially Lesser Restoration only removes a disease or ends the deafened, blinded, paralyzed, or poisoned conditions.

Yes, ironically in D&D, limb removal is actually much harder to reverse than death. This suggests interesting things about D&D physiology and/or magic.

At my table, the rule for limb removal [barring special magic like a Sword of Sharpness] is, "It can only happen when you're on death's door, otherwise your life force is too strong. Limbs can only be removed when you have at least one failed death save." This makes it pretty tricky remove a limb without actually killing the patient. You pretty much have to be a sadistic monster going out of your way to cause suffering in order to remove limbs.

[Spectre9000]

Also, you might want to look at the Honor/Sanity sections and Fear and Horror sections of the DMG pg. 264-266 since you want to run a terror campaign.

[Stray]

In my opinion HP loss shouldn't represent limbs being crippled or cut off (or even intensive bleeding), since loosing HP does not affect a character really that much. You would expect someone with broken arm being unable to swing a sword with it, twisted ankle should limit your movement speed (and brutally sawn off leg should mean you are unable to walk at all), severe pain should at least give disadvantage on every action (if not paralyse with shock), and bleeding should make you worse every turn. Yet character with 1 HP left is just as capable as one with full health. Also lost limbs don't regrow with 8 hours of rest like HP does. But if someone wants to play their game like that Zulu War sketch in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, I cannot stop them (a +1 mosquito net becomes valuable item in such campaign).

But since we are talking about demons, maybe they could use weapons that just give you mental experience of cutting off a limb (it's all in your mind sort of thing) and just give it whatever psychic damage and madness points that are appropriate (maybe special mental affliction, opposite of phantom limb syndrome?)

[Gritmonger]

Check out Giant Centipede poison - it does 3d6, but if it knocks you to zero, you are automatically stabilized. Have the demons have an incapacitating toxin, require a player to be down and paralyzed to have a limb removed. Follow optional injury rules in DMG for effects of missing a limb.

For attempting to remove the limb, have the player make CON saving throws - lower CON characters are less meaty and more easily dismembered. Tougher players are harder to pull apart. Add metal armor into the equation by either having the demons have to get past or remove the armor over the affected body part.

This favors players who can make the CON poison save, and the saves against the dismemberment attacks (say, three failed saves and a limb is removed) without invoking hitpoints per body part.

[Slipperychicken]

Here's how I'd do it: Their saws deal damage every round. Once that person dies (presumably of shock and blood loss), the demons finally remove the limbs they were sawing at. NPCs might permanently lose limbs before death, but a PC's would hang on until they're dead. If you live through the experience, you might have disadvantage on rolls involving the sawed limbs until you get fully healed up.


D&D 5e is simply not built to handle limb removal from living PCs. And I wouldn't want to saddle a player character with that kind of extreme nearly-irreversible malus. If a fighter-type guy loses an arm or a leg, you might as well retire him unless a regenerate spell (or the equivalent) is right around the corner.

[MaxWilson]

D&D 5e is simply not built to handle limb removal from living PCs. And I wouldn't want to saddle a player character with that kind of extreme nearly-irreversible malus. If a fighter-type guy loses an arm or a leg, you might as well retire him unless a regenerate spell (or the equivalent) is right around the corner.

Hooray for monks! A monk can lose a limb and barely even notice.

Ditto swashbucklers.

[mgshamster]

Divide there hp by 6
2 legs
2 arms
1 Head and neck
1 torso
If your damage is more then the damge a Lim has then it is cut off. So if Plat has 6hp each part has 1 hp if you do 9 damage when targeting the arm then you cut it off if you do more damage the hp the extra damage is lost it don't get carried over. So after losing that arm the player still had 5 hp left. How about that is this something you would like to to.

If you're going this route, might as well go with the standard percentages already designated in the medical field for burn victims. Each area of the body is already charted out with percentages. The arms are 9% each (4.5% for anterior and posterior). Legs are 18% each. Genitals are 1%.

Since you're talking about limb removal rather than surface damage, then you can ignore the rest of the body. Removal of anything else is effectively death.

Since we're talking demons here, then being skinned alive is a possibility - for which case the burn chart would work perfectly as a flat percent of damage.

Although in either case I'd designate a minimal damage for each area. If a PC has less HP than the minimum, then they automatically go unconscious and start dying. This helps reflect that higher level characters can withstand more pain and take more damage without silly things like a level 1 PC only losing 1 point of damage while a level 20 PC loses 30 points when they both lose an arm.

[Shaofoo]

Personally I would do the 4e way of such things.

Instead of tying to some timed method (so a wizard's bony arm should take as much as a barbarian's brawny one?) just make them deal HP damage constantly and if they hit 0 then the arm is lopped off. This also deals with such things as any healing done that should mitigate the damage.

Never do each body part has a specific HP, it never ends well.

Also the DMG says that regenerate should be able to repair a lopped off body part so it isn't harder to deal with than death. It is still very hard to deal with and permanent damage isn't something that you should freely deal out.

[Slipperychicken]

Hooray for monks! A monk can lose a limb and barely even notice.


Do monks walk at full speed on their hands and hold torches with individual feet?

[JackPhoenix]

Also the DMG says that regenerate should be able to repair a lopped off body part so it isn't harder to deal with than death. It is still very hard to deal with and permanent damage isn't something that you should freely deal out.

Regenerate is 7th level spell
Raise Dead and Reincarnate are level 5 spells
Revivify is level 3 spell

So yes, it's easier to bring the dead back to life then grow back cut finger.

[Spectre9000]

Regenerate is 7th level spell
Raise Dead and Reincarnate are level 5 spells
Revivify is level 3 spell

So yes, it's easier to bring the dead back to life then grow back cut finger.

Funnily enough, Reincarnate creates an entirely new body, but screw limb regeneration on heal right? I guess if you lose a limb, you could always just kill the person, then cast reincarnate on them so they'll have their limb back.

[Foxhound438]

I would probably have it do normal attack damage for their CR and keep the limb loss as a separate thing. I've seen and tried out a lot of systems where people try to tie a limb to a certain percentage of hp, but I've always been disappointed by them in action.

something like this. Having an arm cut off does not necessitate being put to unconsciousness, and being unconscious doesn't guarantee the limb goes off. Regular damage plus something like "roll a d6 and keep track of the total of your d6's vs the character/mob's con score for each hack. Once your d6 totals go above their con score it's one limb down." also whatever you do i'd take into account things like size category and natural armor, etc.

[RickAllison]

Funnily enough, Reincarnate creates an entirely new body, but screw limb regeneration on heal right? I guess if you lose a limb, you could always just kill the person, then cast reincarnate on them so they'll have their limb back.

Well, with regenerate it has to re-create the limb perfectly and match it to what it was. I would think that there would be a difference, however, with having to regenerate a limb and simply having to reattach one. Reattaching one might require a lower level spell, since it only has the mend the flesh and bone together rather than recreate it from scratch.

[Envyus]

There are rules in the DMG for crippling injuries. Like getting a limb cut off.

[Shaofoo]

Regenerate is 7th level spell
Raise Dead and Reincarnate are level 5 spells
Revivify is level 3 spell

So yes, it's easier to bring the dead back to life then grow back cut finger.

Actually not because in the spell slot sense.

Regenerate requires common material components that can be eschewed with a focus or a pouch.

Revivify and Raise Dead requires diamonds that the spell consumes.

Reincarnate requires rare oils of a fixed price that the spell consumes.

Basically you can't resurrect anyone by RAW until the DM gives you the opportunity to get those specific components (there is nothing in the PHB that says that you are guaranteed expensive material components.) but with Regenerate you are allowed to use it without DM intervention.

So while potentially you can use those spells earlier than Regenerate you still need to find expensive material components and thus you could potentially never cast those spells because of a lack of material components while Regenerate has no such restrictions.

That is what I meant. Of course you can also use Wish to get those expensive material components but then you are waiting till 9th level spells to revive someone.

[Arkhios]

I might have a limb loss cause the character lose and reduce a portion of their max hp equal to the amount of limbs removed, and leave them nauseated for a very long time.
If we divide the body into four limbs that are not vital (arms and legs) for a regular humanoid, plus head and torso, I'd say a limb removed from a human would cause a loss of one-fifth of their maximum hit points (rounded down), and their maximum hit point value reduced by same portion for a time, until they recover from the severe trauma.

Much like with raise dead and resurrection after effect, but maybe a bit longer period.

In general, a humanoid creature has four limbs. Let's assume a character has a maximum of 30 hp. At the point when he lost a limb, he was reduced to 20 hit points already. A lost limb would cause his Maximum hit points reduce by 6 hit points (30/5 = 6), to a new maximum of 24. Likewise his current hit points were reduced by 6 hp, to a current hit points of 14.
In addition, for losing one limb, he would end up being nauseated for 1 week. (at a 1 week per limb ratio)

Only powerful magic (or a long period of rest) can restore the hit point maximum to normal, maybe Greater Restoration, along with removing the nauseated condition. However, getting a lost limb back would require Regenerate, True Resurrection, or Wish. Maybe Heal, too, but I can't remember its exact wording.

[Flashy]

Yes, ironically in D&D, limb removal is actually much harder to reverse than death. This suggests interesting things about D&D physiology and/or magic.

If I had to guess I'd say the time limit on the revival spells means that you have to get to the body while they're still only mostly dead.

[Occasional Sage]

This is a totally fine approach and you are 100% allowed to run it that way if you want to, but just to be clear by RAW the only way to restore the limb of a living target is the 7th level spell Regenerate. Officially Lesser Restoration only removes a disease or ends the deafened, blinded, paralyzed, or poisoned conditions.


Yes, ironically in D&D, limb removal is actually much harder to reverse than death. This suggests interesting things about D&D physiology and/or magic.


Heck, what does is say about PSYCHology?

On topic: there are optional rules in the DMG tying limb loss to crits and/or failed death saves. I'll grab the page number in a bit if I can.