Homebrew Race Benchmarking

[LordOfCain]

What races are close to this in power level? How many racial hit dice and how much LA do they have? Trying to see if this is a good race to choose for my new character.
Half-Sprite
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
Small Size
Base Land Speed 20 ft., Base Fly Speed 40 ft. (Average)
Low-light Vision
+1 Racial Bonus on Spot, Listen, Search, Hide
Wild Empathy +3
Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day: Dancing Lights, Lesser Confusion, Disguise Self, Entangle.
Racial Feat: Dodge
Damage Reduction 1/cold iron
Automatic Languages: Common and Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, and Halfling.
Favored Class: Sorcerer.

[Troacctid]

This is most similar to Half-Fey, a +2 LA race (and generally considered to be at the top end for +2 LA). I think your race is between +1 and +2 LA in power level; I'd either nerf it somehow to make it fit at +1, or buff it somehow to make it worth +2. If I had to leave it unchanged, I would put it at +2 LA if I wanted to be safe, or +1 LA if I wanted to encourage players to use it.

Note that +1 LA options are generally underpowered, so while this would be better than almost every other +1 LA option in the game if it were +1 LA, it might still be balanced at +1 when compared to +0 LA options like humans and raptorans.

As a player, I would consider this race either the best or one of the best +1 LA options, unplayable at +2 LA, and blatantly overpowered at +0.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Passable LA +1, too weak to be anything higher and too strong to be anything lower.

EDIT: By passable I mean "possibly worth the level loss," not "balanced against crap like the Planetouched"

[Beheld]

I would say change it to not have LA.

It's obviously a lot weaker than a Human Unseelie Fey, which is LA +0, as dumb as it is.

The stats are no different from a lesser planetouched, worse than some, so nothing there.

Fly speed is worth quite a bit. Certainly the fly speed alone makes it better than anything not taking Unseelie Fey at LA 0.

The SLAs are really good at level 1, and then pretty much super minor past level 5.

Then it has a huge pile of really small bonuses that collectively amount to almost nothing, in the form of some minor skill bonuses, accounting DR and accounting AC Dodge.

I would say take away the DR, Dodge, Entangle SLA, and they could be 0 LA. You might want to fiddle around with limited flight per day progressing into full flight if you really care, but for the most part, just letting the fly all the time from level 1 is probably fine as long as it doesn't trigger all the rest of the party into changing their race.

If for some reason you actually wanted to have an LA race, I would say give them scaling SLAs (a level 2 one at 3, a level 3 one at 5, ect.) DR 5, maybe scaling with HD as well, and just make the AC bonus from dodge a dodge bonus against all enemies.


This is most similar to Half-Fey, a +2 LA race (and generally considered to be at the top end for +2 LA).

In addition to being less powerful than Half Fey in pretty much every possible respect, Half Fey gives scaling SLAs, not level 1 SLAs regardless of level, and is a template, not a Race, so it stacks with whatever your race grants you.

So the comparison point for Half Fey 2 LA would be Lesser Aasimar Half Fey or Human Half Fey, not Half Fey.

[Zanos]

For 3.5?
Positive stat totals.
Small size.
40ft fly speed at 1st level(probably the biggest thing)
Good SLAs.
A bad bonus feat, bot a bonus feat,
Dr 1/something enemies won't have

I'd say +2, considering there are basically no races with 1st level flight without tons of LA.

[khadgar567]

since we discuss about homebrewed race LA's can you guys take a look at this race done by me
done by pathfinders race creator
Lunari(13 rp)
Stats
+2 dex, +2 cha
Elf subtype
Gains free feat in first level
Racial traits
Fiendish resistance
Lunari can sleep but usually meditates when alone
Sexual monomorphism(-2)( same as lashunta but only female
Lunari is always female
Humanoid(0 rp)
Medium (0 rp)
Normal speed( 0 rp)
Nimble( 1 rp)
Flexible stats( 2 rp)
Standard language( 0 rp)
Lunari resistance( 3 rp)
Flexible bonus feat( 4 rp)
Dark vision 60ft ( 2rp)
Total rp 11
can you guys help me to put a solid la for the race

[Fizban]

Any flight speed that's not terrible is automatically LA+2, both according to Savage Species and in my general opinion considering how much effort you need to get flight via non-racial means. The rest of it is maybe LA+1: ability scores are good but not as good as some (not even any +4s), SLAs are strong but low-use and quickly outstripped by real magic, the feat makes prerequisites easier and the DR is too low to matter (but can be increased by feats).

For fixing the flight speed, you could either make it Raptoran style and have it gradually upgrade from glide to full flight, or you could go Mephling style and make it so slow it's more of a hover. Air Mephlings are LA+1 and have fly 10' perfect. You've got more magic on these guys and none of the DMG sprites have perfect flight, so 10' good might be okay.

For comparison, look up the Petal in MM3. It's got LA+2 (cohort-but who pays attention to that anyway?), and blows this guy out of the water. There was another thread a month or two ago asking for LA+1 flying races, and while there are a few they're quite obscure and not something I'd balance against.

[Inevitability]

since we discuss about homebrewed race LA's can you guys take a look at this race done by me
done by pathfinders race creator
Lunari(13 rp)
Stats
+2 dex, +2 cha
Elf subtype
Gains free feat in first level
Racial traits
Fiendish resistance
Lunari can sleep but usually meditates when alone
Sexual monomorphism(-2)( same as lashunta but only female
Lunari is always female
Humanoid(0 rp)
Medium (0 rp)
Normal speed( 0 rp)
Nimble( 1 rp)
Flexible stats( 2 rp)
Standard language( 0 rp)
Lunari resistance( 3 rp)
Flexible bonus feat( 4 rp)
Dark vision 60ft ( 2rp)
Total rp 11
can you guys help me to put a solid la for the race

Friendly advice: create your own thread for this kind of thing. You'll get more feedback that way. :smallsmile:


I would say change it to not have LA.

It's obviously a lot weaker than a Human Unseelie Fey, which is LA +0, as dumb as it is.

I strongly advice against using Human Unseelie Fey as the benchmark for LA +0. You said it yourself, it's a ridiculous combination. If one option is overpowered, that doesn't mean everything else has to be on the same level (anyone visiting the homebrew subforum should notice that most homebrewers shoot for tier 3/4 when making classes).

[Zanos]

since we discuss about homebrewed race LA's can you guys take a look at this race done by me
done by pathfinders race creator
Lunari(13 rp)
Stats
+2 dex, +2 cha
Elf subtype
Gains free feat in first level
Racial traits
Fiendish resistance
Lunari can sleep but usually meditates when alone
Sexual monomorphism(-2)( same as lashunta but only female
Lunari is always female
Humanoid(0 rp)
Medium (0 rp)
Normal speed( 0 rp)
Nimble( 1 rp)
Flexible stats( 2 rp)
Standard language( 0 rp)
Lunari resistance( 3 rp)
Flexible bonus feat( 4 rp)
Dark vision 60ft ( 2rp)
Total rp 11
can you guys help me to put a solid la for the race
I don't know why you would subtract RP for a race being limited to a single gender? How does that make them mechanically worse? Did paizo actually do that?

[Beheld]

I strongly advice against using Human Unseelie Fey as the benchmark for LA +0. You said it yourself, it's a ridiculous combination. If one option is overpowered, that doesn't mean everything else has to be on the same level (anyone visiting the homebrew subforum should notice that most homebrewers shoot for tier 3/4 when making classes).

I'm not using it as the benchmark for anything which is specifically why I said that the race as is is too good for +0 LA and recommended nerfs to it.

As for "balancing against Tier 4" that means so little that I have to make a listform of how nonsense that is:

1) It's a Race, you can't balance a race against some classes.
2) It's a Half-Fey Charisma based race, it's a race for Sorcerers and Bards, and not for any Tier 4 class, so it's flight should be balanced against the fact that it could have Overland Flight as a spell known at level 7, +1 4th level spell known is not worth +2 LA.
3) Maybe you, the person being asked for advice on homebrew, shouldn't unilaterally be picking the balance point for all homebrew. Like, if you want to ask the OP about the balance point, whatever, but maybe don't start by criticizing all advice that doesn't assume everyone plays Big Dumb Melee Fighters for being balanced to the wrong level based on your personal desire to ban a bunch of classes.
4) Generic point about how Sorcerer's can adventure with literally any party and be balanced with the rest of the party.

[Spore]

Give it a Con penalty and it's fine in LA+0

[atemu1234]

What races are close to this in power level? How many racial hit dice and how much LA do they have? Trying to see if this is a good race to choose for my new character.
Half-Sprite
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
Small Size
Base Land Speed 20 ft., Base Fly Speed 40 ft. (Average)
Low-light Vision
+1 Racial Bonus on Spot, Listen, Search, Hide
Wild Empathy +3
Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day: Dancing Lights, Lesser Confusion, Disguise Self, Entangle.
Racial Feat: Dodge
Damage Reduction 1/cold iron
Automatic Languages: Common and Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, and Halfling.
Favored Class: Sorcerer.

Drop the damage reduction, and reduce its flight to a glide ability like a raptoran and it would be LA +1 or so.

[Troacctid]

2) It's a Half-Fey Charisma based race, it's a race for Sorcerers and Bards, and not for any Tier 4 class, so it's flight should be balanced against the fact that it could have Overland Flight as a spell known at level 7, +1 4th level spell known is not worth +2 LA.

Overland Flight is a 5th level spell. Sorcerers don't get it until level 10 and Bards normally don't get it at all. The game is also balanced around the assumption that temporary flight will be available by 5th level and permanent flight will be available around 10th level. Getting a 5th level spell at level 1 is pretty different from getting a 5th level spell at level 10—that's why raptorans unlock their flight abilities gradually.

I mean if we were talking Pathfinder, then sure, we'd have a whole different baseline power level to work off of. This would be perfectly fine as a +0 LA race in Pathfinder. In 3.5, it would just be stronger than basically all the other +0 LA races. Even at +1 it would be stronger than almost all other +1 LA races.

[Jon_Dahl]

Give it a Con penalty and it's fine in LA+0

Seconded. This seems like the best choice.