[3.5 Base Class] "A King without an Army is just a Man in a Funny Hat."

[Jakman217]

Mythos Discussion Thread III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?457613-Mythos-Homebrew-Discussion-III-Grievous-Imbalance-Is-A-Feature)


http://i.imgur.com/2QOIrEt.png
“A king must live a life more vivid than any other and be figure for all to admire! The king is the one who collects the envy of all his heroes and stands as their guide! Therefore, the king is not alone! For his will equals that of all his followers combined!” - Iskandar (Fate/Zero)
James Reynor (Starcraft), Lellouch Vi Brittania /Zero (Code Geass), Thanos (Marvel Universe)[Seeking replacement], Sir Integra Fairbrook Windgates Helsing (Helsing Ultimate),
Rider/Iskandar (Fate/Zero), Balalaika (Black Lagoon), Kamina (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann), Kane (Command and Conquer Series)[seeking replacement]

The Megaligeti


Throughout history the Leader saw many things. He saw the burning light of The Sun and felt the sadness in his rule. He saw the Tyrant crushing those underfoot and wept at how he would never know the love of another. He saw the Conqueror and cried, knowing he could never truly love anyone but himself. But above all, he was angry at them for their deep seeded selfishness. The Sun could not stand the weight of his contradiction, of both power and free will, and devoured himself. The Tyrant could not fathom the power of those beneath him. The Conqueror did not understand the power of true loyalty. And so the Leader rebelled against them and their arrogance, becoming their antithesis.

The Leader was not powerful and therefore followed, he was followed and therefore powerful. He sought to be great with his people, turning not just himself but all those who followed him into great people. His story was not his alone, but is shared by all of his followers. He may not have been seen as a god, but they still looked up to him with admiration, envy, and fear. So he lived a large life, leading his men to greatness, garnering the best of the best beneath himself. They would look up to him, and strive to become even a step closer to him. He would lead on the battlefield with strength and grace, never letting a comrades foot slip. He would stand his ground in battles of words when challenged at tables of diplomacy. When needed he could use manipulation and subterfuge better than any enemy of his. And when diplomacy and subterfuge had passed, he could command those around him, putting the fear of gods into them.

Ultimately the Leader is all he can be in excess. He can be just as kind as he can be cruel. Allies will admire and envy him for the greatness he brings, and he will show them kindness and joy in excess. His enemies will fear him, and he will show them his bottomless cruelty when they stand in his way. Morality may guide those who follow in his legacy, but ultimately morality is a crutch he does not need to stand tall.

Alignment: Any, tends toward extremes.

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills: Bluff(Cha), Craft (Any)(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Disguise(Cha), Escape Artist(Dex), Forgery(Int), Gather Information(Cha), Handle Animal(Cha), Intimidate(Cha), Jump(Str), Knowledge(all)(Int), Listen(Wis), Profession(Any)(Wis), Perform(Oratory)(Cha), Ride(Dex), Search(Wis), Sense Motive(Wis), Spot(Wis), Use Magic Device(Cha)

Skill Points: 6+ Intelligence Modifier



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Mythos
Excellencies


1st
+0
+2
+0
+2
The Leader's Mythos, Mythos Known, Leader's Excellence, Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure, Threads of Leadership
+2
+1


2nd
+1
+3
+0
+3

+0
+1


3rd
+2
+3
+1
+3

+1
+0


4th
+3
+4
+1
+4

+0
+1


5th
+3
+4
+1
+4

+1
+0


6th
+4
+5
+2
+5

+0
+1


7th
+5
+5
+2
+5
Fantastic Mythos
+1
+1


8th
+6/+1
+6
+2
+6

+0
+1


9th
+6/+1
+6
+3
+6

+1
+0


10th
+7/+2
+7
+3
+7

+0
+1


11th
+8/+3
+7
+3
+7

+1
+0


12th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8

+0
+1


13th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Legendary Mythos
+1
+1


14th
+10/+5
+9
+4
+9

+0
+1


15th
+11/+6/+1
+9
+5
+9

+1
+0


16th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10

+0
+1


17th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10

+1
+0


18th
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11

+0
+1


19th
+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Exalted Mythos
+1
+1


20th
+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12

+1
+1



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: They are proficient with all simple and Martial Weapons, as well as all Light, Medium, and Heavy armor, and with all shields (except tower shield).

The Leader's Mythos: The Leaders power is expressed in terms of one or more “mythos”, the building blocks of the legend that they are, and the stories that they have told and will tell. While any given Mythos varies from the rest, they share some similar traits. They are always Extraordinary abilities, and when they reference a difficulty class for an imposed saving throw, that saving throw is calculated as (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier, unless otherwise stated). When a Mythos references a "level" that is not clearly defined in some other way, such as "character level", it refers to "class level" as in the number of levels one has in the Megaligeti class. When a Mythos references "allies", it specifically does not refer to the Megaligeti using it. When a Mythos grants a feat as a bonus feat, it is regardless of whether the character meets the prerequisites for that feat (unless otherwise stated), and if the character already possesses that feat (in some permanent fashion, via the normal allotment gained by leveling up, or through another Mythos, and so on, but not those gained temporarily, such as via a "Heroics" spell), they must replace the prior instance of that feat with another feat that they qualify for.

Every Mythos has a Tier. The Tier of a Mythos ranges from 1 to 4, typically referred to as Exceptional, Fantastic, Legendary, and Exalted. A Megaligeti with Exceptional Mythos is an individual who seems to stand out among others. When they are there people naturally turn to them, even if they have no given titles or responsibilities. They are naturally commanding. At the Fantastic level, the people no longer just turn to them, but follow them naturally. They come to understand their abilities and powers, and use them as they see fit. They become capable of becoming kings and leaders. Whether they usurp the powers that be or support them is their choice. Even their superiors will start to defer to them. At Legendary level, they are always a commanding presence. They cannot be ignored by anyone, and just the thought of their presence can change the tide of battles. An Exalted Megaligeti has no question to their status. Everyone envies him and his status, friend and foe alike as he stands a giant among his people.

Some Mythos, in addition to their initial stated effect, have Basic and Advanced manifestations. When a Megaligeti gains access to a Mythos with a list of Basic manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit immediately as well. This choice may not be changed later. When a Megaligeti gains access to a Mythos with a list of Advanced manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit upon achieving their next level of Megaligeti. This choice may be changed at any point before receiving the chosen manifestation itself, but not after (choosing beforehand is just an easy way to mark it down on your character sheet so you don't forget that you'll be getting something later).

Mythos Known: A 1st level Megaligeti begins play with two Exceptional Mythos that he qualifies for if this is his first level in a PC character class. At higher levels, he gains additional Mythos as noted on the Megaligeti class table.

For characters that multiclass into Megaligeti after having taken levels in another PC character class, the 1st level of Megaligeti grants only a single Exceptional Mythos, rather than two.

A Megaligeti also has the ability to learn more Mythos, above the ones automatically allotted to him by leveling up by performing certain tasks. Whenever he spends money or resources to benefit spread the glory of his followers, or impede his enemies. This could be spent in buying a lavish party for those who've helped him, no matter how small. He could spend it to harm his enemies, without profit. He also gains MP when he convinces an enemy to become an ally, 10*HD of the person convinced.

By spending 1,000 Mythos Points, and 250xp, a Megaligeti may learn an Exceptional Mythos. A Fantastic Mythos requires 5,000 Mythos Points and 500xp. A Legendary Mythos takes 10,000 Mythos Points, and 1,000xp. And an Exalted Mythos takes 20,000 Mythos Points and 2,000xp.

For half the listed price for a given Tier, a Megaligeti may learn a Basic or Advanced manifestation of a Mythos they already know of that Tier.

Learning Mythos above the standard amount requires astounding, nearly single-minded devotion to the story of the Leader. One may only utilize this ability while more than half of his effective character level (ECL) is devoted to levels in the Megaligeti class.

A Megaligeti also has the ability to learn more Mythos, above the ones automatically allotted to him by leveling up by performing certain tasks. Whenever he spends money or resources to benefit spread the glory of himself, his followers. This could be spent in buying a lavish party for those who've helped him, no matter how small.

By spending 1,000 Mythos Points, and 250xp, a Megaligeti may learn an Exceptional Mythos. A Fantastic Mythos requires 5,000 Mythos Points and 500xp. A Legendary Mythos takes 10,000 Mythos Points, and 1,000xp. And an Exalted Mythos takes 20,000 Mythos Points and 2,000xp.

For half the listed price for a given Tier, a Megaligeti may learn a Basic or Advanced manifestation of a Mythos they already know of that Tier.

Learning Mythos above the standard amount requires astounding, nearly single-minded devotion to the story of the Leader. One may only utilize this ability while more than half of his effective character level (ECL) is devoted to levels in the Megaligeti class.

Leader's Excellence: As denoted on their class table, a Megaligeti gains a certain number of abilities known as "Excellencies". These tend to be more general, generic, and passive than a Mythos, but are useful nonetheless, and are drawn from their own separate list, unsegregated by Tiers. Like a Mythos, a Megaligeti may learn more Excellencies above their allotted amount. Each one costs 1,000 Mythos Points and 100 xp, plus an additional 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp for each time a new Excellency is innovated beyond the first. (So, 2,000mp and 200xp for the second, 3,000mp and 300xp for the third, etc.)

Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure: The Leader's story is never truly built upon falsehood, it is in fact built upon a powerful, even horrifying truth. The leader has never truly cared what others thought of him, because he knew his destiny and power better than anyone. He knows it so well that even doubt cannot find a home in his mind. It matters not to the Leader what others think of him, but it matters to those who know him. Be he a man or a god in their eyes, it does not change his destiny

However, this knowledge affects those who know of him deeply. The more of him they know, the more they come to fear or admire him. Upon sight, if uncertain about anyone in his presence knowing about him have them roll a knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) as though they were trained in the skill (can get higher than 10 on the roll without ranks). The DC for this check is 35 - Levels in Megaligeti - Charisma Modifier. If they beat the DC, they know of the Megaligeti and are under the full sway of his glory, if they fail then they are free of his sway, recognizing his presence and knowing his name, but not connecting the two.

If the Megaligeti wishes to enlighten them he and his allies may tell those who don't know about his glory. This forces them to re-roll the check, with a cumulative +1 for every person who has attempted to teach them about the Megaligeti. It requires a standard action to tell about him. Even if the same people attempt the knowledge, they may continue to force rerolls until successful. Someone who is told to roll must roll. Additional bonuses may be given by the DM if they role-play the speech to inform the person. If a person spends a period of time greater than 24 hours with the Megaligeti they are considered to know him.

However, there is a price to the power of being known. If a Megaligeti is brought low, as to make others believe he is weak, they are not considered to be effected by his Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure. For example if he is made to cower, or run away from a conflict from fear. It is up to the DM as to what meets this requirement, but it should be inglorious and shameful. A Megaligati must also be recognizable, and therefore cannot use disguises or polymorph abilities that change his appearance. If an ability requires this ability, then he must be recognizable and glorious to them.

Threads of leadership: A leader has many roads to power. No one method is greater or lesser to the leader, but he has his preferences. Each thread denotes a line of powers which a leader can focus on. These lines are not exclusive, and should be used as needed to meet challenges.


Paragon – “Nobility is not being superior to your fellow man; True nobility is being superior to your former self.” A Paragon follows this path to improve himself, making him both stronger, and more independent, able to lead his followers from the front, and allowing him to face challenges alone. Bonus: For every Ability with this thread, gain a +1 innate bonus to Constitution.


Commander – “Good tactics can save even the worst strategy. Bad tactics will destroy even the best strategy.” A leader may be powerful and impressive on his own, but he is far better when he leads others. Even a leader who puts his own prowess first is better with followers. The thread of this power is to improve not himself, but his allies. Empowering them and multiplying their strength. Bonus: For every ability with this thread you increase the bonus you give when you aid another.


Diplomat – “Diplomacy, n. is the art of letting somebody else have your way.” Often, a leader must deal with people who don't wish to follow, but don't directly oppose him. When a third party must be confronted, but neither inspiring speeches, nor direct violence are the proper answer, this is when diplomacy must enter. The threads of diplomacy are not about commands or confrontation, but compromise. The more a leader follows this path, the better they become at convincing others, whether it is convincing them to join him, or simply stay out of his way is his choice. Bonus: For every Ability with this thread, gain a +1 insight bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Gather Information, and Sense motive.


Manipulator – “Just because something isn't a lie does not mean that it isn't deceptive. A liar knows that he is a liar, but one who speaks mere portions of truth in order to deceive is a craftsman of destruction.” When direct action cannot solve a problem, sometimes manipulation is required. A leader versed in this thread is infamous for his wiles, and becomes even more dangerous as he makes his enemies think twice. Often they become his unwitting pawns, following his will without realizing it. The more versed in this a leader is, the better he is at directing the footsteps of his enemies. This is much more difficult to resist, but often much smaller in it's effects. Bonus: For every ability with this thread, gain a +1 insight bonus to Decipher Script, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Hide, and Move Silently.


Autocrat – “It is a great matter to be in authority over others; for authority, if it be rightly used, will make you feared beyond your actual resources.” Many leaders, for better and worse, don't seek to empower others, but to control others. It's an inevitable fact that a leader may have to use this route also. The threads of an Autocrat empowers the autocrat to make others follow his orders. As he gains power from these threads it becomes harder to refuse his commands. As an autocrat does not have authority but absolute authority, even reality and the gods can be made to obey his commands. Bonus: For every ability with this thread increase gain a +1 Charisma.

[Jakman217]

Exceptional Mythos

Self-Realizing Empowerment Aura [Commander]
Prerequisites: -

The leader was never alone in his greatness, his story was the story of him and his men.

A leader has an aura about him. Those that follow him and work under him simply, feel stronger, more powerful. The megaligeti need only be there for people to be under their effects.

All people within 30 feet of you, gain bonuses of your choice equal to your Charisma modifier. You may choose from:


Bonus to Critical Confirmation
Bonus to disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder.
Bonus on Saves
Bonus to overcome SR
Bonus to AC against Attacks of opportunity.
Bonus to Damage rolls when flanking.
Bonus to Strength checks and skills.
Bonus to Dexterity checks and skills.
Bonus to Constitution checks and skills.
Bonus to Intelligence checks and skills.
Bonus to Wisdom checks and skills.
Bonus to Charisma checks and skills.
Bonus to Damage rolls when charging.


You may have a number equal to 1/3 your level rounded down (Minimum 1) active at any time. It takes a move action to change a bonus in combat.

Your allies gain this bonus as a morale bonus. Bonuses from bardic music do not stack unless the bard performs to expound on your glory.

This aura widens to 60ft at level 7. Increases again at at level 13 to 90 feet. Then again it expands to 120 feet at level 18.

If an ally is not under the effect of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure, then this has no effects. If the Megalegati is unconscious the effects of the aura is lost.

Basic:

Wider Bolstering Gravitas: You may have an additional effect active at a time. You may take this multiple times.

Betterment Focus specialty: You may chose one of the abilities and use 1.5 x your Charisma modifier instead of 1. This bonus cannot be swapped out however.

All Inclusive Glory: This aura no longer counts as a morale bonus, allowing undead and mindless creatures to be effected equally. For these beings Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure is not needed. It still does not stack with Bardic music Naturally.

Advanced:

Greater Aura Empowerment: You gain these auras in addition to the previous list.


DR/Adamantine equivalent to your Charisma Modifier.
Bonus to all damage rolls.
Bonus to hit.
Dodge Bonus to AC
Movement Bonus equal to 5 x ½ your charisma modifier. (this bonus cannot be improved)


Only one of these may be active at any time, if bonuses overlap, they do not stack. This does not increases the number of auras you can have active at any time.

Powerful Commanding Tactical Flexibility[Commander]
Prerequisites: -

It is not uncommon for a leader to inspire his troops before a battle. But, why does he do it? Ordinary men would say it races morale, making his men feel better before the battle, but the leader knows better. He does it to prepare his men, so they are stronger, harder to break, and ultimately far greater than their opponents.

As part of a perform(oratory) check you may buff your allies for the coming battle. You may roll a perform(oratory) check after a speech of at least one minute. This bonus lasts till either you give another speech, overwriting the previous bonus, or until the next major encounter ends (discretion of GM but leaving initiative order is not necessarily the end of a major encounter).

You also gain Skill Focus( Perform(Oratory)).

The buff gained is decided by the manifestation you chose. Unless you have Doubly Prepared for All Speech, you may only use one manifestation. All of these stack with Self-Realizing Empowering Aura.

If anyone is not effected by Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure, then this ability does not work.

Basic:

Through Fire and Ice Preparation: For every 5 points above 10 your allies gain a +1 resistance to an element of your choice, either Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid, and Sonic. Stacks with all other resistances.

Solid and Immovable Fortresses: For every 5 points above 10 your allies gain a +1 bonus against Grapple, Bull Rush, Overrun, and trip.

Unbreakable Shielding Heart: For every 10 points above 10 your allies gain a +1 bonus to Shield AC.

Advanced:

Hardened Skin For Battle: For every 5 points above 10 your allies gain a +1/- DR.

Doubly Prepared for All Speech: Choose another basic Manifestation, you may now apply two in one speech.

Deft of Foot Preparation: For every 10 points above 10, your allies gain a +5 ft to their basic movement.

Ever Ready Agile Movement: Unbreakable Shielding Heart now gives a Dodge Bonus, rather than Shield Bonus to AC. {Requires Unbreakable Shielding Heart}

Prepare to defend yourselves: Beat a DC 30 perform Check to give your allies 20% cover.

Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: -

Words are not the truest weapon of the leader. Words may communicate many thoughts, but no word is as pure as the terrifying gaze of a leader. Such a gaze can stop even dedicated assasssins in their step, giving them a fear as though they locked eyes with a god.

As a standard action you can focus your power upon someone, causing them to be terrified under your gaze. Your opponent makes a Will Save, to resist and if he fails he is now shaken so long as you focus on them. They may continue to resist every subsequent turn, and if they succeed on their save they are immune from future uses for the rest of the current major encounter.

To continue focusing on them you must direct all of your attention on them, you cannot take your eyes off of them, you cannot move further away from them, but may approach them, or circle them. If someone attacks you you must make a concentration roll to maintain, DC 10+damage taken. If you attack someone else you must make a concentration check, DC 10+Damage Dealt/2. You may attack the person your effecting without a check to continue concentrating on them, but if they attack you must still make the check.

If the target is not under the effects of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure then they are not effected by this ability. This ability is considered mind effecting by default. This effect cannot be broken or dispelled by any means other than breaking the gaze.

Basic:

Truly Frightful Glare: Your target is now Frightened instead of shaken.

Impressing Glaring Assault: If your target leaves your sight or your gaze upon him breaks it lingers upon him. The effects now last an additional number of rounds equal to your Charisma Modifier.

Dazzling Stare of the Divine: Your target is now Dazzled as well as Shaken.

Advanced:

Abject Horror of Power: Your target is now cowering instead of Frightened. {Requires Truly Frightful Glare}

Enamoring Locking Glare Fascination: Your target is now Fascinated with you so long as you keep your stare, rather than Dazzled. {Requires Dazzling Stare of the Divine}

Paralyzing Glare: You can now paralyze your target, however the save DC for the effect Decreases by -5.

Split Attention Glare: You may now attack freely, without rolling concentration, and you gain a +5 to Concentration checks from taking damage.

Staggering Pressure: Your target now becomes staggered while effected by your stare.

Unrequited Fear of him: Your stare is no longer considered mind effecting.

Fearful Glory Induced Obedience[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: -

When you give a command, people listen. It is natural for people to listen to a true leader. When you command them to march, they march, when you tell them to kneel, they reflexively fall to their knees. But a word is all you need.

As a standard action you may focus your power on a specific individual, and give them a command. This can be done to both enemies and allies. Enemies may resist with a Will Save.

This command must be a short phrase. Such as 'kneel', 'silence', 'stand still'. This command lasts for your Charisma Modifier of turns. They may roll again if they are threatened or given another command. If an enemy resists successfully they are immune to another attempt for the rest of the encounter. If a command is impossible to complete, telling a snake to kneel, there is no save, no resist, and it does not count as having resisted successfully. If a command is directly dangerous to them such as commanding them to kill themselves, they gain an additional +5 to resist the command.

An ally may also be commanded, and if they don't resist and command they gain a +3 to complete the action if it is applicable. Such as telling them to duck in preparation to a fireball grants them a bonus to their reflex save.

The target may take the action either Immediately, or at their next opportunity, whichever you believe is more appropriate.

If a target is not under the effects of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure then they are not effected by this ability.

Basic:

Multi-targeted Commandeering Push: You may now give commands to 1/3 your level rounded down (minimum 1) in targets at a time.

Prolonged Subordination Commandment: Your ability now lasts 2 x your Charisma Modifier, rather than 1 x your Charisma modifier.

Undeniably Powerful Command: This Mythos is no longer considered a mind effecting compulsion, allowing it to effect even mindless or other ordinarily immune creatures.

Advanced:

Enforced Yoke of Order: 1/day you may now give an order that lasts your Charisma mod in days, rather than rounds. This order can be a simple sentence rather than a simple command. This order is given a new save every day. This save Decreases by 1 for every day they are effected by it.

Reaffirming Command Assault: If someone resists your command successfully, you may give them another command. However, if they resist twice, they become immune as before.

Manipulative Subterfuge Controlling Whispers[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: -

When interacting with someone you may implant an idea into their head, convincing getting them to do something that helps you. You roll a Diplomacy or Intimidate check to get them to do this task once everything is done or the effect has been triggered. DC starts at 20+ target's sense motive bonus and increases as the obvious harm of the action action increases. It requires at least one round to set this up, but for each consecutive round, it becomes easier, up to a +5 at 6 rounds (about 30-36 seconds). Additional bonuses may be given by the DM for good role-playing. This action may be carried out either immediately or up to your Charisma modifier in days later. If it's action is delayed there must be a specified trigger to activate the action.

This action is far easier to put into them if they see no harm in the action, and have no obvious repercussions to them. Actions that they believe will cause harm, or they believe will get them in trouble will increase the DC greatly. For insignificant side effects the DC increases by +10, while obviously dangerous activities may increase it by +40 or more, depending on the target's aversion to the effect. These may also require multiple checks to convince them that the actions indeed harmless. Opening a window while on duty to let in a nice breeze. Setting down their bag on the left side rather than the right side. Bringing out the Knives first.

You may also manipulate out an action in combat. Getting them to focus on one person first, or avoiding another. While convincing them not to go after the wizard first may be a bit more difficult, suggesting they go after your monk rather than your fighter would most certainly be easier.

You can only have one manipulated action prepared on a person at a time. Attempting to Manipulate them before the previous action occurs replaces the previous action. This does not require Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure. This is not a compulsion or mind effecting ability, but requires that the target is at least intelligent enough to have a conversation.

This is can be very subjective, but DM has final say, and sets the final difficulty.

Basic:

Manipulative Seduction Assault: You may use your gender and sexuality to gain an advantage. If your target is attracted to your gender and/or sexuality the DC to manipulate them decreases by -5.

False Friend Manipulation: If your target is friendly to you, you may decrease the DC of manipulating them by -5. You may consider someone your friend by conversing for at least 1 hour with them, passing a Diplomacy check DC 10-40 depending on your actions and their eagerness, and learning their name.

Advanced:

Subtle Complexity Induction: You may now queue actions for the target to do. These actions must be carried out in the order you give them. Every for every action already prepared for them already increases the difficulty of the next by +10.

Slip Danger In Disguise: For actions that are potentially dangerous the difficulty added for these actions are halved.

Trouble Making Enjoyment: For actions that could get them in trouble, the difficulty increase is now halved.

Symbolic Facade of Power Creation[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: Cannot have any followers or must remove followers, Loyalists may be kept.

Terrifying leaders have no identity, they are not a face, or a name, they are an idea. A cause that cannot be captured, lost, controlled, or killed. You are not a man, you are a symbol of power and authority.

Imbue an identity hiding item, such as a helmet or mask, with your presence and power. Doing so removes the aura from your identity and ties it to you in your mask. You still have access to your Manipulator and Paragon Mythos, but won't have access to your other mythos abilities without your mask.

However you have an additional issue. Your mask becomes a symbol and so anyone wearing it may be able to fake being you, though the disguise may not be easy to maintain. Having the mask on your person may tip people off to your masked identity.

Worst possible, if someone sees who is behind the mask, the illusion is lost and your abilities no longer effect them. They gain a +5 bonus to resist your manipulations and abilities. Unless they swear loyalty to keep your secret they cannot become fully under your sway again. You may designate some people to know from the beginning, but they must take this oath. If you have the the Loyalty to a Grand Ideal, Loyalists may know your identity.

If someone wishes to discover your identity, they must see you and actively scrutinize you both in and out of costume to get a check. They must pass an opposing skill roll, their spot vs. your disguise +1/2 your level.

Should your mask be lost or destroyed you may tie your identity to another mask of your choice, it takes at least 1 week acting in the mask for your identity to be tied to it.

Donning or removing your mask takes only as long as ordinary clothing changes. Divination does not connect you and your mask's identities without immediate suspect from the caster. If they attempt to scry you while you are in your other identity they automatically fail, as though you did not exist. If they know of both identities then they can find you in either identity.

Your Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure now treats your mask and/or disguise as your true identity. So long as it is worn you are considered to be in your proper form.

Basic:

Look Tied Power: You may use any mask, so long as it is similar enough to your original.

The Suit of Power: You now use an entire suit to tie your identity down. This may be ordinary clothes or a full set of armor, but it must be sufficiently unique or iconic. This allows you use a set of clothing, rather than a mask as your identifying mark. This allows you you to use any method to hide your identity, so long as you wear those clothes but makes it more difficult to hide in an instant. Showing your face is still able to break the Illusion.

Dressing Jaunt: When you don or remove your disguise, you may make a small teleport, as Dimension Door. This can be done, twice a day, up to a minute before or after you have donned or removed your disguise. You can teleport anywhere within 400ft+40ft/level. When you prepare to teleport to don your disguise you may make a perception check to tell if you will be seen while donning your disguise. The same goes in reverse when teleporting to a location to remove your disguise.

Advanced:

Hear His Name and Lament: You may tie your power to not only a mask, but a name. This name can be as simple or Grandiose as you wish, but it must be speakable. This name can never change, and if it falls from glory in the world at large, so will your power. Only those truly loyal to you can gain bonuses, and only those who truly fear you can be penalized if it falls. You may give others the right to use this name for you and gain your influence. When they use your name for Diplomacy, and Intimidation, they may use your bonus in those skills instead of their own (if they wish). The one they use them against may make a will save to disbelieve. If this manifestation is used with the 'Symbol of Fear and Power', the save increases by +5.

Symbol of Fear and Power: You may tie your power to a Symbol, this symbol can have both 2d and 3d forms, but both must be recognizable between the two. This symbol may be used instead of your name. This allows you to have your influence felt by others without words. This gives a those who use it the ability to use your Intimidate and Diplomacy skills in your stead (if they wish). This bonus does not stack with 'Hear His Name and Lament'. They may make a Will save to disbelieve. If this Manifestation is used with 'Hear His Name and Lament', the save to resist increases by +5.

Leaders Falsehood Piercing Stare[Diplomat]
Prerequisites: -

You may focus your gaze upon someone who speaks to you and if they fair their save, take a penalty to bluff equivalent to double your Charisma modifier. You may only focus on one person at a time with this mythos.

If the target is not under the effects of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure, then they are not effected by this ability.

Basic:

Stare of Ten Thousand: You may apply double your Charisma modifier as a penalty to their Diplomacy as well as their bluff when you stare at them.

Poise Shattering Gaze: You may now apply double your Charisma modifier as a penalty to their intimidate as well as their bluff when you stare at them. You may also get a rough estimate of their strength overall. This may be their CR, Level, Strength, or any other decent modifier for how strong they are.

Advanced:

Stealth Piercing Gaze: Should your target be under the effect of this mythos and they attempt to hide they fail automatically against you, this includes magical methods of hiding such as invisibility. They must break line of sight with you for the entirety of a round for them to attempt to hide without failing. This does not stop them from hiding from others, only you. This is not mind effecting.

Under the True Gaze of Gods: You can now stare at someone, if they fail their save they are incapable of lying, automatically failing their bluff checks against you. Should they lie through omission or half-truth, you are notified. This is considered mind effecting.

Mind Seeing Stare: While under the effects of this ability you also have the ability to read some of the thoughts of the target's mind. This lets you gain a glimpse into their immediate thoughts. This can be bluffed with a -10 to the roll they make however. This ability ignores mind effecting as it's less about invading their mind so much as catching ordinarily unseen cues from them. You cannot gain knowledge from them that is not immediately on their mind. You may also use this to gain a bonus of +4 to handle animal checks.

Ironclad Contractual Formation[Diplomat]
Prerequisites: -

You may make contracts with others. These contracts allow you to set rules and create understanding between your group and other groups. You may even make contracts between other groups, acting as a broker between the two. These contracts have no limit on how long or complex they can be. They can also cover any topic or idea necessary. Generally the easiest contracts are simply those stating the positions of the two parties to each other.

As you make more complex contracts, it can be for almost anything. You can write a contract for a sufficiently large trade, or a declaration of surrender. If a contract is written the person gains a +3 bonus to actions that uphold the contract. If someone breaks the contract everyone will know immediately, and the ones who upheld their end of the contact gain a +5 against those who broke it.

Basic:

Neutral Broker Balancing Stance: You may act as a broker and regardless of the outcome for either side you are given no blame for negative actions so long as you gain no benefits.

Favor Haggling Turnabout: You now gain a bonus to getting your way. The DC to convince others of your contract benefiting you decrease by -5. You also now sell everything back to shops with better value. If you GM default to ½ market price when selling back, you instead gain ¾ of the market value rounded up. This will not let you sell something back at a higher price than you bought it.

Advanced:

Loophole Initialization Manipulation: You can occasionally slip in a loophole into your contracts. For every 4 levels in Megaligeti (minimum 1) you may slip in loopholes that will be ignored by those of your choice. This loophole may be used by anyone who knows of it, and while it may cause dislike by those effected by it, it will not count as breaking the contract.

Quick Contract Creation: You may now form a contract through verbal agreement. These contracts are much more vague and often will have unforeseen consequences for those who enter them. All that need be done is say the terms and gain agreement with the other party. Agreement could be a handshake, swearing over a religious text, or a simple 'yes' so long as both sides understand that they are agreeing.

Perfection Sought in Martial Excellency[Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

You gain a bonus of +1 to attack and damage with all weapons.

Basic:

Jack of Blades Master of None: Gain an additional +1 to attack and damage with all weapons, Mastering nothing but being effective with everything. You may also wield any exotic weapon with half the penalty (-2 instead of -4).

Focused Assault Method Mastery: Gain an additional +2 to attack and damage with all weapons of a similar type or design. (See Pathfinder Fighter Weapon Training for examples http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter) You may take this Manifestation multiple times, but must take a different weapon group each time.

Signature Weapon Specialization Mastery: Choose a singular weapon, if you are not proficient with it, gain proficiency with it and gain an additional +3 to attack and damage while you use this specific weapon. This weapon may not be replaced, with another weapon freely. If you lose this weapon you can replace it by expressly paying for a copy to be created. This replacement costs an additional 1,000 GP to make. You can take this manifestation only once.

Advanced:

Greater Focused Assault Mastery: Gain another class of weapons as Focused Assault Weapon Mastery.

Gemini Specialized Weapon Mastery: You may chose another weapon to gain Perfect Mastery in as Signature Weapon Specialization Mastery, allowing you to Dual Wield with your Signature weapons. This manifestation follows all the same rules as Signature Weapon Specialization Mastery. You also gain Two-weapon Fighting and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, and you may also chose Improved Two-Weapon Fighing, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, without meeting the ability score requirements, but you can only use these feats when wielding your specialized weapons.

Keen Eyed Accuracy Master: You gain Point blank and Far Shot as Bonus Feats.

Powerful Great Weapon Grip: Gain Power attack and Monkey Grip and remove and ignore the -2 penalty usually incurred by this feat.

The Whip and Lash: Gain Whip Mastery, as your BAB meets the requirements of the better versions you also gain Improved Whip Mastery, and Greater Whip Mastery, ignoring all requirements of weapon focus (whips).

Dual Weapon Dancing Mastery: You gain both Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, you may also gain Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, without meeting the ability score requirements.

Unhindered Sword-and-Shield Style: You gain power attack, Shield Charge, and Improved Shield Bash(if you don't already have it). When wielding a sword and shield you may treat your weapons as though they were a two handed weapon, adding 1.5x your strength to damage and gaining 2 extra damage for every -1 to hit you take with power attack.

Perfection Sought in Invincible Armors[Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

As you battle, you become more in tune to your armor. For every 4 levels in this class you add +1 to your armor's maximum dexterity, and reduce your armor check penalty by -1 to a minimum of 0 (minimum +1 and -1 respectively). At 10 max dexterity, your armor is considered to be without max.

You also remove 5% from spell failure chance at the same rate.

You also can also sleep in armor without becoming fatigued.

Basic:

Weightless Armor Dexterity: When you wear light armor you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your armor class. Your armor also has no armor penalty or spell failure chance anymore.

Superior Balancing Armor: When you wear medium armor you are not slowed by it's weight. You may now move at your full speed in medium armor. You also gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your armor class.

Invincible Heavy Fortress: When you wear heavy armor you gain a DR 2/- that stacks with everything. Your armor also has twice it's normal HP for sundering attempts.

Advanced:

Mithral Armor Mastery: When you wear armor made of mithral, your armor gives you an additional +2 armor bonus. This stacks with enchantments.

Super Heavy Adamant Mastery: When you wear armor made of Adamantine, your armor is considered to be of the same weight it originally was. It also has it's DR bonus doubled.

Invincible Shield Defence Mastery: When you wear a shield it's base AC bonus is doubled, and you gain Improved Shield Bash (if you don't already have it), and Parrying Shield as feats.

Towering Shield Wall Mastery: You are now proficient with Tower Shields, and gain the feat Shield Wall. You may attack while using your tower shield as cover, but it cannot be in the direction your shield protects you, and the cover extends to spells.

[Jakman217]

Fantastic Mythos


The Charisma of a God[Paragon]
Prerequisites:-

The Leader is always more powerful than he seems to those who know him. As his legend grows he becomes stronger than he seems. Upon taking this mythos you add your Charsma modifier as a Natural Armor bonus to your AC.

Does not require Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure.

Basic:

Armor of Fortune's Denial: Your Bonus from this now counts as a Luck bonus to AC instead of Natual Armor, applying to both touch and flatfooted.

Undying Charismatic Fortitude: You now add your charisma modifier to all of your saves.

Immovable Mountain of a Leader: Add your charisma against Bull Rush, Trip, Disarm, Grapple, Feint, Overrun, and Sunder attempts against you.

Energy Defying Charisma: You may add your charisma Modifier as a resistance modifier to two energy types of your choice. This may be taken once more to two more types of energy.

Advanced:

Greater Defensive Empowerment: Chose another Basic Manifestation of this mythos.

Confidence Piercing Weapon Keening[Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

Your confidence is so powerful that even reality has difficulty holding it back.

Upon taking this mythos you may chose a target as a swift action and attack them, gaining a bonus to both attack and damage rolls equivalent to your charisma modifiers for the next turn. This additional damage ignores all DR but /-. You can use this 1/3 your level in this class (minimum 1) times per day.

Basic:

Charismatic Assault Driver: Your ability now works for your Charisma Mod in turns.

Overpowering Charisma Crusher: Your ability now uses 1.5 times your Charisma modifier rather than your Charisma Modifier.

Dispersed Focal Charisma: You may now use this on your charisma modifier in targets at a time.

Precise Critical Assault: You gain Improved Critical and Critical Focus as feats and add your charisma modifier to confirm criticals.

Advanced:

Renewed Charismatic Vigor: you may use this ability a number of times per day equivalent to 1/2 your level in this class rather than 1/3.

Confidence Shattering Charismatic Strike: If you hit your target at any time he takes a penalty equivalent to your Charisma Modifier to his AC against everyone else who attempts to attack him.

Grand Decree of Undeniable Authority[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: -

As a standard action you may declare a decree, to all those who hear you. Those who hear a decree may tell others of it and put them under it's effects. A decree may be on any thing but must command something to happen or an action to be taken. A decree has no limitation on time but you may only have ¼ your level in this class decrees active at any time. It takes at least a full round action to activate this ability. Decrees last your charisma modifier in days, each day decreases the save by -1.

You may specify who is effected by this ability. If an effected target is unwilling to do the act they may resist with a will save, if they succeed they may ignore it for a day while in your presence. Once the decree is made those who are effected by it must follow it. If the decree specifies that an action cannot be taken (such as striking someone) they must make a will save to do it. If the decree specifies the action must be taken, then they may resist taking the action. If they resist once they may ignore the decree for 24 hours. If the target resists two times consecutively then they may entirely ignore the decree. If they fail however they may not resist until they are threatened, or something that is entirely contrary to their wishes is done (like ordering them to kill a loved one).

If an effected target agrees they instead gain a bonus to do the action. If the decree is to a specific short term goal then they gain a +6. The larger the goal to complete is, such as killing an army, the less the bonuses effects are, every 10 times larger it decreases by 1 to a minimum of +1. Decrees do not stack with each other.

If the target is not under the effects of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure they they are not effected by this ability. This ability is considered to be a mind-affecting compulsion. DM has final say as to what your decree actually does.

Basic:

Year Long Decree of leadership: You decrees now last weeks rather than days, with the save decreasing every week rather than every day.

Command Bound Decree: When you give a decree, all those under your command automatically know of the decree you've stated.

Advanced:

Echoing Voice of Command: When you give a decree your voice travels many times further. Unless they already know to cover their ears, no one can chose to fail hearing it, the distance between you and your target have 1/10th the penalty to hear your decree, and they gain a +40 to listen and hear the decree.

Powerful Fear-of-the-Divine Presence[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare

Your Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare now works on anyone and everyone within your aura. This aura is the same area as Self-Realizing Empowerment Aura and increases in the same manner. 60 ft. with Fantastic Mythos, and +30 ft radius with every following tier of mythos. You are also not required to always move to your target, you simply must move toward a target for the effect to continue working against everyone. Eyesight to you is required, but you no longer need to focus on any target specifically.

If the target is not under the effects of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure then they are not under the effects of this ability. If Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare is no longer mind effecting, neither is this. This ability requires at all times that they know you are there, you cannot be invisible and use this ability.

Basic:

Ever Growing Power: Chose another Basic Manifestation of Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare.

Knowing of his Presence: Those within the aura no longer need to see you to be effected by this mythos.

Advanced:

Continued Power Growth: Chose another Advanced Manifestation of Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare.

Blinding Aura of Glory: Your aura now causes your opponents to be blinded, however, they may save against it every round, and once they pass they cannot be effected by the blindness again that day.

Confused Fear Induction: Your aura now causes your opponents to be confused. They may attempt to save against it every turn they are effected by it, and once they pass they become immune to it for the rest of the day.

Ally Manipulating Partial Betrayal[Manipulator]
Prerequisites:-

Sometimes a master of manipulation must use his allies against their will. You can manipulate multiple people in the heat of battle. As a standard action you may use a diplomacy or intimidate check to manipulate two targets. The targets roll their saves collectively, using the higher will save between the two of them.

Using this you may penalize an ally to penalize an enemy twice over. You may apply a penalty to your ally equivalent to ¼ your level in Megaligeti and double the penalty on your opponent will be applied. This penalty can be to Attack, Damage, or AC.

If they the target is not under the effect of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure then they are not effected by this ability and is mind effecting.

Basic:

Mistrust in the Ranks: As an immediate action you may attempt a Bluff check to convince one enemy that another nearby was attempting to hit him after a miss. The one your attempting to trick makes an opposed roll Bluff vs Sense Motive, for every 5 feet between him and the original target he gains a +5 to his sense motive check. Additional bonuses may be applied to either side by the DM depending on the relationship of those you are attempting to trick. If he loses the opposed roll to you he will consider the one you blamed to be hostile and act as such. This may be broken by the blamed individual if they beat a opposed roll of their Diplomacy vs. The tricked person's Sense Motive – how much you beat their original sense motive.

False Turncoat Reveal: As a standard action you may attempt to trick your allies that someone is a betrayer, using a sleight of hand against those looking upon you, your 'betrayer' excluded, you may stab yourself with a weapon, perhaps one that is not obviously on your person. You deal damage to yourself with full force. Afterward you do a bluff check against everyone's sense motives (betrayer excluded). Unless he beats your bluff check with a diplomacy check they will consider him an enemy like any other, they will likely attack immediately.

Emotionally Twisting Words: With little effort and knowledge you have learned to sway the emotions and thoughts of those around you. With a Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate, whichever is appropriate, you may use a little bit of knowledge with the precision of a scalpel. You may change the emotional state of your target with ease. The more extreme the emotional change, the greater the DC to change it. DM discretion to exact DC.

Advanced:

Turn-around Manipulations: Any ability that applies to allies may be done to enemies, and vice versa, but only if you swap the targets in the entire ability. Mistrust in the Ranks may be used against allies, the default ability may be used to penalize your ally double the penalty of your enemy.


Doppelganger Stand-in Tactics[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: Symbolic Facade of Power Creation

Upon gaining this Mythos you may give the power of your mask to one of those who know your identity and have sworn loyalty to you. They gain access to all Commander, Diplomat, and Autocrat abilities you have gained that are below Legendary Tier. For every day they act in your stead they gain +1 to Disguising themselves as you. So long as this disguise is unbroken they will continue to act as though it was you.

While you can train multiple people to do this only one can be you at any given time else the powers are lost and the illusion is broken.

Basic:

Multiplicity of Position and Power: You may now have up to your charisma modifier in people acting in your stead at a time, however they cannot be within sight or sound of each other. If at any time they are your allies make an intelligence check DC 10+1/2 your charisma modifier. If they succeed the illusion is broken and your power over them is lost. The only way to regain power is with a sufficiently good explanation and Diplomacy check. The better your explanation the lower the DC to beat. If you fail your explanation you lose all power in your mask.

More Ideas: Please...

A Cause full of Pride and Madness[Diplomat]
Prerequisites: -

A leader always has something they wish to achieve, an ambition for something that was lacking from the world. They doubted it would come to fruition without them and so they took the reigns and attempted to correct this course. Those around him who agree find his drive, his ambition, thrilling and invigorating, those who disagree see it as madness.

The abilities gained by this Mythos are granted from the Basic Manifestations. You may only take one basic manifestation at any time, and should you grant this ability to others through other mythos you may only grant what you chose here.

Basic:

Pride: You take pride in your actions and cause making yourself more visible to those around you, and instilling those that follow you the same. Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure's DC decreases by -5, and your allies now gain A bonus to their will saves against Compulsion equal to +1/2 your level (minimum 1). You also gain a +4 bonus to your Diplomacy check to hold your ground in a discussion/debate/or other diplomatic encounter, as you are proud of yourself and your goal. If you have or gain leadership increase the effective level of it by +2 as your pride draws more people to you.

Cause: You are logical, not boasting, of your cause. This desire to complete this cause is ultimately driven by something you view as illogical, invalid, or wrong in some basic way. Whenever you attempt to sway people to or defend your cause you gain a +4 to diplomacy. You also give your allies a +1/4 your level (minimum 1) to saves against illusions.

Madness: You are driven to your goal, as if by madness. This makes many people around you frightened of you as you seem single minded in your pursuit. You give your allies a bonus to their will saves against fear equal to your level. Your leadership level decreases by -2 as your extreme desire can drive people away. You also gain a +6 to diplomacy to hold your ground in a discussion. You may also roll an intimidate check to show your opponent how driven you are in your discussion. For every 5 above ten you roll you may add +1 to diplomacy to convince them to not stop your or face the consequences. This may make them more willing to discuss larger more sweeping topics in their discussions as a way to placate you, or frighten them out of your way.

Advanced: TBD...

Adamantine Geass Contract Forging[Diplomat]
Prerequisites: Ironclad Contractual Formation

When you make contracts you may, with or without consent, force the contract as if it were a geass. Should they attempt to break the contract under any circumstance they must make a will save to do so. And if they break it they take penalties as though they are resisting a geass until they make amends, either gaining forgiveness of the wronged parties, or paying back the damage they have done in some comparable measure. The only way for these contracts to be broken truly is for at least half of the parties to break their agreements or all parties involved be willing to remove the contract.

Ally Angering Harm[Commander]
Prerequisites: Self-Realizing Empowerment Aura

As a swift action you may tempt your enemies within your Empowerment aura with a chance at your head. They must make a will save and if they fail they will attempt to turn their aggression against you, if they fail by more than 5 they do so without fear for their own safety, taking the most expedient path to you in order to get a chance at you even if that means running through threatened territory. If they succeed the save then they cannot be effected by it for 24 hours. This compulsion only stops if combat stops.

In return for this all allies in the vicinity gain an additional attack of opportunity specifically to hit those who failed, and if you are attacked by those who failed your allies may take an attack of opportunity on them. They also gain a +2 bonus to strength. If you take damage at any time while this is active the bonus to strength doubles to +4. If you go down to zero or lower it doubles again to +8 and unless you return to consciousness it continues until the end of combat, no longer needing you to be conscious.

If the targets are not under the effects of Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure then they are not effected by this ability. This ability is considered a Mind-effecting Compulsion.

Basic:

Mindless Compulsion Empowering Aura: Your ability now works on mindless creatures such as undead and vermin. Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure is not needed for such targets.

Uncouth Attempted Assassin's Reward: You may now activate this ability as an immediate action upon taking damage from an unexpected opponent. This activates before you would go down, but does not stop the damage. If you do so all those in your aura gain a your charisma modifier as a bonus to their spot and search to find the would be assassin, and they may move and attack the target as an immediate action as well after his attack, along with the standard effects of the aura. This ability can be used in conjunction with the Ally Manipulating Partial Betrayal's False Turncoat Betrayal Manifestation.

Rally Cry of the Leader[Commander]
Prerequisites: Self-Realizing Empowerment Aura

At the cost of your own actions you may give additional actions to your allies immediately. On top of this, you have the ability to alter the initiative order of combat.

As a swift action you may move someone's position in the initiative order to anywhere you wish. Once they are moved they stay there for the remainder of the combat. If they have already taken their action in the round the new initiative takes effect the next round (an ally may not gain an additional turn in a round).

You may spend your actions to give additional actions to your allies. Every ally being within Self-Realizing Empowerment Aura may be given additional actions at the cost of your higher action. Full round gives Standard Action, Standard to Move, Move to Swift. They must use this additional action on their next turn or the action is lost.

[Jakman217]

Legendary Mythos


Cloaked in Perfection Incarnate[Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

You are now a near perfect specimen. Any flaws of your body disappear, and your weaknesses fall away. If any stat is below 12 naturally automatically raise it to 12, and any ability at or above raise by a +2 perfection bonus. Your body also gains fast healing 1, and unless you wish it, no scar can permanently mark your body. You also count as one size larger everywhere it benefits you, and gain both Low-light and Darkvision 60ft. You also no longer need to roll for Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure, as everyone knows your name.

Basic:

Wide-Ranged Insular Physicality: You become immune to all climates, you can work in the hottest deserts and coldest ice fields equally well. You never need to roll for constitution for hot or cold environments, and never take damage from climate hazards.

Far flung Traveling Greatness: You are completely immune to all effects of pressure allowing you to travel to the deepest parts of the ocean, and even in the vacuum of space without difficulty. You also no longer need to breath.

Border and Blood Crossing Greatness: You are treated as though under the effect of Tongues permanently, you understand all languages and when you speak all understand you as well. This also allows you to read all languages without effort.

The Emperor's New Clothes: You make chose a suit of armor and now always count as though you have it, regardless of how you are dressed. You may even be stark naked and have it's bonuses. As a result of this bonding with your equipment, all penalties from armor are now gone, there is no spell failure chance, check penalty, or maximum dexterity.

Immortality of the True Leader Shintai[Commander]
Prerequisites:-

You have become one with your people. Those you lead can truly never forget you. If you should ever die someone else will rise to fill your place. You may designate a person to take your place and upon your death they may take your place. Every day they spend in your place they either gain or replace one level of this class exactly as you took it until they are the same level as you. If you did not designate someone to take your place either your closest follower, or a willing replacement will take your place.

Upon completion of the transferring of your power you should have all your previous power, however race, gender, and base scores may not be the same as your previous incarnation.

So long as your cause survives so will you.

You may also train lieutenants to gain a portion of your abilities. After 24 hours of tutelage they may use one of your Mythos abilities at your minimum capacity. They gain one basic manifestation of the mythos, but no advanced manifestations, and they cannot gain any [manipulation] Mythos, or Mythos above Fantastic. These abilities do not stack with Doppelganger Stand-In Tactics, and cannot have both on the same person. These abilities may be used at the same time as your abilities. Lieutenants with this abilities cannot have more than 2 mythos from you at any given time. If they ever turn against you they immediately lose access to these given abilities. Any overlapping bonuses given by you and your lieutenant do not stack. You use either half your charisma mod or your ally's charisma mod as the base of these given mythos, whichever is higher.

This cannot be taken with True Multiplicitous Mask Controlling Shintai[Manipulator].

Commandments of Gods and Kings[Diplomat]
Prerequisites: Adamantine Geass Contract Forging

You may force people to discuss your contracts. Even gods and forces of nature may be drawn in for a discussion. With a simple shout whoever you wished to make a contract with will be immediately summoned before you, be they god or man. When summoned they are not immediately angry or upset, rather they are amiable. If you attempt to harm them while at the table of diplomacy however they are immediately returned to where they originally were, without harm. You also lose the ability to summon as they realize you are a untrustworthy and without honor. They may also become agidated if they are summoned multiple times as you seem to pester them.

Standard Contract rules apply, however, even nearly impossible things may be achieved. You could make a contract with death to delay your death. You may make a contract with a god of fire that you will never be burned so long as you pay him. Every contract made must have a fair payment to the god or entity you're contracting with, but you'll rarely be required to worship them. You may only force discussion with a summoned entity once a year, other than this one time they may accept or reject of their own volition immediately.

True Multiplicitous Mask Controlling Shintai[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: Doppelganger Stand-in Tactics

You have mastered the mask so thoroughly that you are your mask. Your identity behind the mask still exists, but it is little more than a shell and ultimately cannot support itself on it's own. Your mask is now just an identity that represents a facet of your plans, it can have a physical mask or not and you may have as many of these identities as you wish, creating a new one after a week. You do not even need to train a stand in as a new body seems to just form attached to this mask. You may also control these identities simultaneously as though you were in all places at once.

However, a leader cannot be matched with another and expect to rule peacefully. No mask may be on the same side as another, every mask must oppose each other. Should any identity be killed, you do not die and so long as at least one exists you will continue existing. Your masks may work against the party they are in, but if the group believes or proves that your working against them your sway over them breaks.

If at some point it is revealed that you are working both sides, you risk not only death, but complete collapse of your identity. This person is no longer loyal to you ever, and will likely attempt to reveal this information immediately. Should this get out your masks crumble, your identity is revealed, and you are likely to die entirely as your masks die, killing you.

Because of your multiplicity you can not die of old age, and don't gain age bonuses or penalties.

This shintai may not be taken with Immortality of the True Leader Shintai.

Unquestionable Authority of the Gods[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: -

You are the undeniable leader, you do not ask for the gods to heal your ally, you tell them. You do not ask death to bring your friend back, you demand it. Reality itself is now finding it more difficult to resist your commands and will.

You gain the ability to, once daily, force reality to realign a little closer to your liking. You may use this ability to cast any spell at or below spell level 7, excluding wish, miracle, and similar spells. It has no component requirements, excluding material costs not covered by the Eschew Materials feat, never requires concentration to cast while threatened, and always pierces Spell Resistance, but still give the chance for the target to save against it. You cast it as a caster of your level in this class, and use your Charisma for any additional bonuses.

[Jakman217]

Exalted Mythos


Leader Transcending Mortal Flesh[Paragon]
Prerequisites: Cloaked in Perfection Incarnate

Many leaders are ordinary men, but it is not so for you. The myths about you become ever more true. Poisonous gas seem ineffective against you, stabbing you in the heart is no worse than a scratch, and your body ceases to function as an ordinary being.

Upon taking this Mythos you become a surreal being beyond ordinary understanding, the legend coming true, and the truth of the legends made real. You now gain new abilities, as though you were becoming another form of creature, something beyond living. You gain all the listed traits below.

You now have a d12, rather than d10 HD for this class. Reroll previous HD for this class, if any is less than the original roll take the higher.
Gain low-light vision if you didn't already have it.
Gain Darkvision 60ft if you didn't already have it and if you did increase it to 120ft.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects, excluding morale effects.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to Critical Hits, Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Fatigue, Exhaustion, or Energy Drain.
Immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save, unless it also works on objects or it is harmless.
No longer risk death from massive damage.



One People, One Nation, One Leader[Commander]
Prerequisites: -

You have no question to your rule. You are as much your people as they are you. So with this unity you act. One People, One Nation, One Leader.

You know have another special follower type called the citizen. A person may become a citizen by one of a few methods, but ultimately they cannot be made one permanently. All those who live peacefully under your command or those who pleadge or swear allegiance to the organization you represent are considered citizens. Those who oppose you are not citizens and do not count.

These citizens are receptive to your command and so gain bonuses any time they are under your command.

[Diplomat]
To be reworked...

[Manipulator]

Words from a True God[Autocrat]
prerequisites: -

I will not be denied my authority. Not even the gods can deny me my position, my right to rule.

Your charisma is so powerful and demanding that even the forces of nature will bend to meet your demands. You may roll against a charisma check against a DC to alter or negate forces of nature. This DC is higher the more impossible the feat is. Without a Charisma roll you could allow yourself to stand on any slope and ignore ordinary difficult terrain. With a DC of 15 you could weaken gravity on yourself, allowing you to jump ten times higher, or carry a incredible loads. With a 20 you could completely ignore gravity, allowing you to fly at your move speed and with perfect maneuverability. With a 25 you could negate it from your local area (30 ft.) removing control from everyone and causing them to float up slowly.

The abilities are limited to your charisma modifier in minutes at a time, hovewer, you may make these checks as often as you wish, effectively flying as long as you make your charisma check.

You may even make a parry blows with your charisma. As an immediate action you may roll an intimidate check. If the check is higher than their attack roll you parry it, negating it by your force of will.

You also gain the ability to force your charisma down on someone absolutely. You may command someone as though you gave a Geass/Quest. It is limited to targets at or below your level. If your target has levels in a mythos class they may save to resist it. You may give a command to as many people as you wish so long as they can see your eyes, however if given simultaneously the order must be the same.

You may only use this on any person once. If you attempt to use it on a person again, or they resisted it, it automatically fails.

[Jakman217]

Excellencies



[Ability] Perfecting Desire
Prerequisites: One Fantastic Mythos

A leader cannot afford to be weak, weakness must be purged. And so he seeks to become closer to perfection, his will is so strong his body must obey.

Chose any ability score, this excellency may be purchased once for Strength, Constitution, and Charisma, granting +2 enhancement bonus to the chosen ability.

Once you have at least one Legendary Mythos known, this excellency may be purchased a second time for each ability score. This second purchase increases the enhancement by 4, to a total of +6.

Greatness [Skill] Diversification
Prerequisites: -

A Leader needs to keep himself well versed in many things, who knows when he may be asked to give his opinion on smelting techniques to apply. Far be it for the leader to give anything but his best to those who seek his help.

Upon taking this the first time you gain all skills as class skills, and you may use all skills as though you were trained in them.

Every time you take this, including the first, you chose a single skill and you may automatically put it up to max possible ranks, this increases as you level. Any points you put into this skill already are refunded to be placed elsewhere.

You may take this multiple times, each time applying it to a different skill.

Force of Will[Commander]
prerequisites: -

A leader does not take orders against his will, if he does something for another person it is ultimately of his own volition. Only the Leader can give undeniable orders.

You become more resilient to mental attacks and commands. +1/2 levels in Megaligati bonus to will saves against compulsions.

At level 7 this expands to all mind-effecting.

At level 13 it expands to illusions as well.

At level 18 it expands to all will saves, and you are immune to compulsions.

Command Across the Land[Commander]
Prerequisites: -

Whether through rumors of your previous exploits, or the way you carry yourself, or the way people react to you, people see you have potential, and your name has preceded you.

Upon taking this excellency the DC for Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure decreases by -5. You may also give one tactical feat to all allies within your your Self-Realization Empowerment aura or 30 feet. The people who receive the feat may ignore any prerequisites to the feat. You may change this feat as a free action once during your turn.

Tactical Flexibility and Grace[Commander]
Prerequisites: -

When in doubt, be ready for everything. Flexibility is a great gift, and being flexible in command will most certainly help.

Upon taking this excellency you may give all of your allies within your Self-Realization Empowerment Aura a feats of your choice. You may continue giving them this feat as long as you wish, and may change it as a move action. If they already have it or lack the prerequisites to use the feat (excluding ability score requirements) they gain no bonus from it. They cannot use this feat as a prerequisite for anything but other feats you give them via this ability.

For every tier of mythos you have access to you may grant them one feat. (starting at 1 and going up to 4 at exalted tier)

Bottomless Hunger for Pleasure [Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

The leader is the greatest among his people in seeking what feels good. If moderation is right for those beneath him, surely excess is the realm of the leader.

Upon taking this excellency you may enjoy everything without penalty. Eating entire feasts in a night, drinking four bottles of wine in a sitting, smoking five cigars at a time, or enjoying the pleasures of the flesh for an entire night straight. All are now possible without penalty.

You may eat as much as you wish and putting off eating later, eating five days worth of food means you don't need to eat for five days. Alcohol has no negative effects on you. Drugs are no longer addictive and have no negatives. You are immune to all diseases and you also no longer require sleep as there is far to much of the world for you to enjoy (all abilities that refresh daily are considered to refresh at midnight or another ordinarily asleep or resting moment of the day).

Indominable Poison Resistance[Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

As a leader, people are often attempting to take your life through sinister methods. You must be prepared.

You may drink, ingest, or otherwise subject yourself to a portion of a poison. When you do so, you make a fortitude save with a +5 bonus to resist. If you succeed then you are sickened for an hour, but if you fail you take half of the regular damage and are sickened for the day. Over the course of a week you may apply what is equivalent to 4 uses of a singular poison and upon the end of the week you will be completely immune to it. So long as the poison offers a save, you can build an immunity to it. For each poison type you are immune to you gain a cumulative +1 to save against all poisons.

Ever Vigilant Watcher[Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

You gain improved initiative as a feat and your charisma modifier is applied to your Initiative bonus and applied to Charisma to Spot, Listen, and Search checks instead of Wis and Int.

Loyalty to a Grand Idea [Diplomat]
Prerequisites: -

The leader is never alone, for when he is alone he is at his weakest, and most vulnerable. And so, he confides in a group of close followers who become like friends.

You gain Leadership as a feat.

You may make a unique form of follower called a loyalist. A loyalist is someone who has sworn loyalty to you in some understood way. It could be a simple promise and a hand shake, or a full knighting ceremony. A loyalist gains one bonus from your mythos (such as Self-Realizing Empowerment Aura), regardless of their distance from you. You may only have your charisma modifier in Loyalists. These loyalists do not count against your total allotted followers from Leadership, and this is meant for particular allies, such as PCs or very important NPCs.

If a loyalist betrays you at any time, all of your followers will immediately consider them hostile and the bonus they were originally being given turns into a penalty for the next day. Your followers and Loyalists gain your charisma to damage the traitor for the next day.

A traitor can be brought back if they make amends and you chose to forgive them. Doing so undoes all of the penalties, returns the bonuses, and stops your followers from being immediately hostile.

If a Loyalist Betrays a second time they become a Nemesis, the bonus becomes a penalty again, all followers are immediately hostile to them, and the charisma bonus to damage comes back, however the bonus to damage lasts forever against them. Also, unless you expressly command it, all forms of peaceful interaction is now blocked between this nemesis and your followers. They may be forgiven, but they may never return to your side as a follower or loyalist. They can gain no bonuses from you, only penalties.

Council of Wise Men[Diplomat]
Prerequisites: -

A leader's strength comes not just from himself. He is not alone in his position, and he should not see himself above help. When problems arise that he alone cannot solve he has his followers to ask, and a council of close companions to check with.

Whenever you are about to make a choice that effects a large number of people, you may make council with allies and advisers to contemplate your choices. When you do so you for at least one hour or the maximum amount of time you are allowed before making the decision you may peek into the future, similarly to augury. When you peek into the future you roll a d% and if you roll below 25+the sum of all levels in the conversation you may look ahead to predict whether the choice will be good or bad. If you fail, you are given no hint as to the results of your actions. This chance can be increased by applicable skill checks, for every 5 above 10 a person makes you increase the number to roll below by 1. Additional bonuses or penalties can be added to the roll by the gm as is appropriate. 100 is always a failure.

[Diplomat]
To Be Made...

Play the Threads of Legend Like a Harp[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: -

In some businesses, any news is good news. Not to disagree, but sometimes it has to be the right news. Naturally, a leader knows how to inspire hope and fear in others, and he knows how to spread the word of himself.

The Knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) check from Glorious Self-Realizing Pressure decreases by -5. Also, all save DC's increase by +1.

A Shining Capitol on a Hill[Autocrat]
Prerequisites: -

A leader needs a place to rest his head, to call his home, and a location for his people to turn to in dire straights. A physical example of your greatness, a gleaming capitol on a hill that all can look up to. From here your power seems to extend, and both the land and people you claim as your own expands from here.

You may designate a building, or location as your home, palace, or capitol building buy spending at least 10,000 gp in value on it, and living in it for at least one week. The location must be permanent and livable. Everyone who is within a ten mile radius and can see it gains a +1 morale bonus to resist fear, enchantment, and to any one skill of their choices, so long as they act for the benefit of you or your people. Also, while residing within this estate, you heal all damage at double the rate, and treat ability drain as you would ability damage. This healing bonus extends to your loyalists who also reside in your home.

In cases of emergency, you may designate a temporary structure in stead of a permanent one. In this case, the location's power only covers within 1 mile. You may not have a temporary and a permanent at the same time. A permanent loses it's power if it is no longer considered yours, or it is destroyed.

[Autocrat]
To Be Made...

Slippery Devil[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: -

A leader as sly as you is rarely captured, and even if you are, you still are in control. If they take their eyes off of you, you may just disappear, slipping through their grasp again.

You may use your charisma modifier on Escape Artist instead of Dexterity and apply it to grapple checks. If freedom of movement would apply to it you may add your charisma to resist it as well.

Master of Disguise and Deception[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: -

What are you talking about? I am no leader, I am merely a common peasant. I live a simple life and have never seen the greatness of the glorious leader.

You may now ignore any penalties to disguise as disguising your race, gender, even your age is easy. You also gain Skill focus(Disguise).

While disguised and using spells such as disguise or alter self, you may ignore truesight and similar abilities, applying the bonus given by the spell regardless.

Rumormonger[Manipulator]
Prerequisites: -

It may take an army to raise a king, but a single, well placed word can destroy a king.

You have a knack for rumors unlike most other people. With single diplomacy roll you may spread a rumor about almost anything and if it is convincing enough it will spread like wildfire. After you start a rumor it will increase by 10 times the number of days since you started it until the entire city is infected with it.

You also may bury a rumor, by beating a DC you may spread a rumor that seems to remove the previous one from the minds of people. This new rumor follows the same rules as starting one, but also greatly diminishes the rumor you are replacing.

[Jakman217]

So I made this class for the Mythos Classes.

Currently this class is almost complete. I just need a few more high level Ideas and a bunch of excellencies to finish it up. Any help would be loved, and I'll be doing my best to talk to those who respond. I'd love to discuss what's been done.

I'm also interested just to hear what people think of it.

To link my other work with the Mythos collection I'll give a link to the Compendium wiki of most of the classes.
http://mythos-compendium.wikia.com/wiki/Mythos_Compendium_Wikia

Change log:

27-Dec-16 -- Altered the thread bonuses to be every 1 ability rather then 2 and changed the commander bonus from +1 attack and Damage to +1 aid another bonus.

[EdroGrimshell]

Damn dude, I can't wait to see the mythos for this thing, you've got me very much interested.

[Jakman217]

Damn dude, I can't wait to see the mythos for this thing, you've got me very much interested.

Finished it up, hope you enjoy it and have some ideas.

[Yasahiro]

Let's see...

Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare[Autocrat] and it's follow ups seem too strong. Especially when sight no longer is required to be affected. The covering penalty is VERY hard debuff and combined with lingering effects it... Yeah. And the character can just keep using this Mythos every turn. There should at least be some grace period for those who resisted it once.

Commandments of Gods and Kings[Diplomat] can be abused due to not allowing first summon in a year to be resisted. Because an ambush can be prepared and this Mythos used just to get person out of hiding

Unquestionable Authority of the Gods[Autocrat] is bad because of no save and you should feel bad. Geas and Quest are strong things.

Manipulation of Fate and Prophesy[Manipulator] has unclear effects. Can other mythic characters not resist it? So if one prays to gods or their avatar is nearby, the Megaligeti can just say that the god will be defeated and they will, simple as that? I suggest that the prophecy is vague so the outcome is not so clear to allow breathing room for loopholes.


Currently these were worst offenders. Perfection Sought in Martial Excellency[Paragon] seems a bit too streng. Manipulative Subterfuge Controlling Whispers[Manipulator] though...

It says the action but be harmless but then a manifestation says the difficulty for harmful actions decreases... Where is the difficulty? Is it a penalty? What?

[Bdrone]

So i just read over the bulk of this class and... THIS. IS. AWESOME.

with Integra Hellsing on the banner, i couldn't stop myself from immediately thinking of these abilities applied to an integra-like hybrid. most of these abilities made me laugh or just impressed, and I've already got some interesting concepts with a Crossbow armed leader, going heavy on paragon abilities when not making loopholed contracts, backed up by a Butler with a penchant for cutting things into little kibbles.

I've honestly been waiting for a Mythos class like this, and id say you hit this out of the park. needs more mythos and some adjustments, perhaps to the higher tier ones, but I wouldn't know where to begin. but i REALLY want to mess with this one. it's not immediately physically powerful like most of the other mythos classes, but its still amazing in it's own right by sheer force of personality, and somehow I enjoy it just as much, if not more. a simple slight build woman, cigarette in her mouth, finger on the trigger of a Crossbow, marching in step with her allies and bringing enemies down in a a wall of sustained fire.

its... beautiful! even the unique excellencies have me going- eating for a month to put off eating for a month? never needing to sleep while drinking the bar out of house and home? heck, some of these elements built right remind me of Alexander Anderson... and THAT? I can't resist. just missing long range throwing bayonets...

[Jakman217]

Let's see...

Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare[Autocrat] and it's follow ups seem too strong. Especially when sight no longer is required to be affected. The covering penalty is VERY hard debuff and combined with lingering effects it... Yeah. And the character can just keep using this Mythos every turn. There should at least be some grace period for those who resisted it once.

Adding in a immunity for the rest of the major encounter after a resist.



Commandments of Gods and Kings[Diplomat] can be abused due to not allowing first summon in a year to be resisted. Because an ambush can be prepared and this Mythos used just to get person out of hiding

While that was not the original intent, I mean why would you attack someone you want to make a deal with. I see your point. Thinking either mutual security clause, neither they nor you may attack during the discussion, or that upon any damage being done they are immediately returned. I'll use the latter over the former, but which do you think is better.



Unquestionable Authority of the Gods[Autocrat] is bad because of no save and you should feel bad. Geas and Quest are strong things.

I'll add a requirement that it only works on those equal or lower than your level, and you may only do it to them once.


Manipulation of Fate and Prophesy[Manipulator] has unclear effects. Can other mythic characters not resist it? So if one prays to gods or their avatar is nearby, the Megaligeti can just say that the god will be defeated and they will, simple as that? I suggest that the prophecy is vague so the outcome is not so clear to allow breathing room for loopholes.

To answer your questions. Yes, mythic characters cannot resist, realizing this I upped the time from a month to a year. No gods must be physically present, added in this information to the final part. I'm personally unsure how to make it more vague without losing my original intent, but I'm up to a reinterpretation/rewrite of the ability.


Currently these were worst offenders. Perfection Sought in Martial Excellency[Paragon] seems a bit too streng.

It may be a bit strong but it is their only direct combat mythos, my reasoning behind making paragon thread mythos so strong was because these mythos would pretty much be the only direct combat bonuses they'd get. Everything else is either a buff or debuff. So I'm less worried about them. On top of this, most mythos (de)buffs are inherently considered mind-effecting requiring you to spend a manifestation to remove mind-effecting.



Manipulative Subterfuge Controlling Whispers[Manipulator] though...

It says the action but be harmless but then a manifestation says the difficulty for harmful actions decreases... Where is the difficulty? Is it a penalty? What?

There was originally a table of examples and such but I removed it to make it more open. Though that inconsistency has been rectified to allow for harmful at step costs and example increases have been given.

[Jakman217]

So i just read over the bulk of this class and... THIS. IS. AWESOME.

with Integra Hellsing on the banner, i couldn't stop myself from immediately thinking of these abilities applied to an integra-like hybrid. most of these abilities made me laugh or just impressed, and I've already got some interesting concepts with a Crossbow armed leader, going heavy on paragon abilities when not making loopholed contracts, backed up by a Butler with a penchant for cutting things into little kibbles.

I've honestly been waiting for a Mythos class like this, and id say you hit this out of the park. needs more mythos and some adjustments, perhaps to the higher tier ones, but I wouldn't know where to begin. but i REALLY want to mess with this one. it's not immediately physically powerful like most of the other mythos classes, but its still amazing in it's own right by sheer force of personality, and somehow I enjoy it just as much, if not more. a simple slight build woman, cigarette in her mouth, finger on the trigger of a Crossbow, marching in step with her allies and bringing enemies down in a a wall of sustained fire.

its... beautiful! even the unique excellencies have me going- eating for a month to put off eating for a month? never needing to sleep while drinking the bar out of house and home? heck, some of these elements built right remind me of Alexander Anderson... and THAT? I can't resist. just missing long range throwing bayonets...

Thank you, I'm glad you like it. If you have any ideas for mythos or excellencies I'd be glad to hear them, afterall that's part of the reason I brought it here. I'm kind of scraping the bottom of my barrel, particularly with the excellencies.

[Jakman217]

Lots of updates, replaced one mythos with gambits. Added in a few more excellencies.

Any help or ideas with the unfinished ones would be nice.

[Jakman217]

Bump for more opinions.

[DracoDei]

Based on what you said in the main Mythos thread, it sounds like you are not so much asking for REVIEW of what already exists (although that might be quite welcome), but rather SUGGESTIONS for things to add, especially Excellencies and Exalted Mythos, right?

So, to make my questions for the Megaligeti more known.

Quick Summary. It's a mythic leader, based around 5 branches of roughly equal importance:

Paragon, AKA I want to be a better on my own.
Commander, Let's be a bard or more accurately a better marshal to my friends.
Diplomat, Let's do stuff out of combat!
Manipulator, "Honestly I wanted to play Zero from Code Geass" the branch. And
Autocrat, Do What I Tell You!

Between these are balanced the abilities of the class. You can pick and chose from the branches to play what you want without demanding anything other than leading.

So, the first real question is asking for some help on the excellencies. Currently, it's kind of hit and miss with some like Bottomless Hunger for Pleasure, being among my more favorite abilities. However, I'm just having trouble thinking of more mythos. With 2 open excellencies in Commander, Diplomat, and Manipulator, as well as an Autocrat I need more ideas to fill out these abilities.
On top of that is my least favorite Excellencies is Ever Vigilant Watcher which is just a free feat and cha to initiative, super thin, rather boring and bland honestly.

Next is the bottom of the barrel hit with the exalted mythos, there is no Commander or Manipulator mythos and I'm just having trouble thinking of things for them.

Lastly is (what I think is) the general suck of the Diplomat line. It's feels like a bunch of thinly defined abilities that just don't really work for ordinary games. First with the contract abilities which are rather meh, then with the 'gambit game' later on. Throw on a better made, but rather derivative mythos that may as well be Fear-of-the-Divine Producing Stare part 1.5 (there's already a full part 2 for it).

So, to wrap up my long questions for you guys, I need only a few more ideas, a few rehashes and fixes to make things better and more interesting, and a general balance check to make sure I didn't over or under-power it.

The class in more detail is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477620-3-5-Base-Class-quot-A-King-without-an-Army-is-just-a-Man-in-a-Funny-Hat-quot&p=20393728#post20393728) and, again, any real comments or discussion should probably take place over there where it can be more focused.


*Reads Excellencies to try to get an idea of what remains that you could add*
*Has some comments along the way*
Greatness [Skill] Diversification
This doesn't fit with the idea of a "leader" to me. Maybe along the lines of the Paragon, but then that just means that that whole branch doesn't quite click in my head. How does someone lead by being good at something, unless you are inspiring others to also be good at it? Maybe those ranks should only count when you have at least one person performing Aid Another (and their roll to automatically succeeds)? I guess if you are inspiring them to do better LATER... Maybe say that you can only take this Excellency a number of times equal to the number of [Paragon] MYTHOS you have? Maybe put the [Paragon] tag on it themself? Also, note that this is better than the other skill-maxing Excellencies I have seen since it grants a free rank in everything you don't already have ranks in.

Command Across the Land[Commander]
Where are the Commander feat and its sequels? As far as I can see [Commander] is just a tag.


Bottomless Hunger for Pleasure [Paragon]
Prerequisites: -

The leader is the greatest among his people in seeking what feels good. If moderation is right for those beneath him, surely excess is the realm of the leader.
See, to me, the underlined portion is the exact OPPOSITE of a Paragon.

Also, this may be more on the power level of a Mythos... but it doesn't have the raw cool factor for actual play to support that. It is too passive. Keep it as an Excellency, but add some prerequisites?

Indominable Poison Resistance[Paragon]
Eh... basically works out to a +(big number) bonus against really rare poisons, and immunity to the rest, for a comparatively small GP cost. Which is great! Poison immunity for an excellency is not beyond the pale to me, and doing it this way is definitely within reasonable limits, and much better fluff.

Ever Vigilant Watcher[Paragon]
Name needs work... I would expect this to give Spot bonuses,Slippery Devil[Manipulator] Darkvision, Low-Light Vision, and/or remove the need for sleep.

Loyalty to a Grand Idea

A loyalist gains one bonus from you at all times, regardless of their distance from you. You may only have your charisma modifier in Loyalists.
One of your Branch bonuses I assume? This should be more explicit.

I have a Good PR Guy[Autocrat]
Somewhat anachronistic name... perhaps something along the lines of "Play the Threads of Rumor and Legend-making Like A Harp [Autocrat]"?

A Shining Capitol on a Hill[Autocrat]

Additionally, everyone who is within a ten mile radius and can see it gains a +1 morale bonus to resist fear, enchantment, and to any one skill of their choices, so long as they act for the benefit of you or your people.
Since this is the first mechanical benefit (rather than requirement) listed, I would remove the word "Additionally"

Slippery Devil[Manipulator]

You may use your charisma modifier on Escape Artist instead of Dexterity, and you may add charisma to any other roll to keep yourself from hindered in your movement or actions.

"hindered in actions" could include anything that kills you, plus most or all things with the [Mind Effecting] tag. Not to mention Climb, Balance, Tumble, Swim, and maybe even Survival and Knowledge(Geography). Might want to tighten the wording up...

Now for new ideas... (Brainstorming, may contain huge flaws, ideas that are just not possible to execute, or even ideas that don't fit the class at all).
A Mind Worth Following
Immunity to reduction to mental ability scores. Might start out with just damage, then scale to penalties, then drain? Maybe a sequel that requires AT LEAST level 18 and probably higher, that lets you ignore Burn, but still gain the benefits of it... but that would almost be worthy of an Exalted mythos with that excellency as a prerequisite because of the amount of cheese that could create.

Leadership by Example
All allies within LoS gain +X bonus to any action you have undertaken within the past round. For checks that last longer than a round (for instance Craft), you must continue to perform the type of check for the full time they are performing that check, although only the first round and Y rounds per hour is LoS required. Separate craft skills count as the same as eachother for this purpose, PROVIDED they are part of some unified goal (which could be anything from "build this golem body that requires checks in 4 different craft skills" to "rebuild this town after it was razed to the ground"). This does not apply to knowledge checks to recall information (if you recall it, then why would they need to? And if you fail to recall it, you set a lower bar*), however it DOES apply to checks to blaze new grounds (including re-inventing/discovering techniques and ideas that you could not recall well enough to duplicate).
*Actually, maybe all bonuses from this excellency should only apply to checks you SUCCEED on?

Martyr
(Stuff about when you are rendered unable to conduct a particular goal despite your very best, holding nothing back, efforts, your allies gain bonuses to it... and if this class is punished for failing by its basic mechanics it partially to completely negates this.)

Sink or Swim Mentor (with a lifeline held ready) (Partially inspired by Princess Celestia)
Allies gain additional bonuses when you stand back from the very beginning of a particular challenge and refuse to become involved in any way. If they are all rendered unable to continue, then you may step in, and YOU gain bonuses.
.
.
.
Tell me what you think so far, and I will try to think of a few more...

[Dimmet]

Greatness [Skill] Diversification
This doesn't fit with the idea of a "leader" to me.

A leader doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order to lead, they must themselves be excellent. Or there's no point in following them. The class isn't about making the character some unstoppable juggernaut of the battlefield, but rather a pinnacle of charisma, which in a practical sense is more than just force of personality and such, but also a person's luck, ambition, success, and achievements. So while unlike a battlefield fiend, they still must also focus on their own ability.

Which this excellency greatly displays. You might even say it is the backbone of the leader archetype. I believe Rider of Fate/Zero put it quite well, if you want to look up Ionian Hetairoi. Edit: Alternatively, just look at the class quote. It's the same one.

A big part of what I love about this class is that its abilities aren't just mechanics, but that it fits the archetype to have what it has.

[Jakman217]

Based on what you said in the main Mythos thread, it sounds like you are not so much asking for REVIEW of what already exists (although that might be quite welcome), but rather SUGGESTIONS for things to add, especially Excellencies and Exalted Mythos, right?


Yes, I've got enough stuff that reviewing it for balance is possible, but it's just short of being finished enough for me to actually want a full review.



Greatness [Skill] Diversification
This doesn't fit with the idea of a "leader" to me. Maybe along the lines of the Paragon, but then that just means that that whole branch doesn't quite click in my head. How does someone lead by being good at something, unless you are inspiring others to also be good at it? Maybe those ranks should only count when you have at least one person performing Aid Another (and their roll to automatically succeeds)? I guess if you are inspiring them to do better LATER... Maybe say that you can only take this Excellency a number of times equal to the number of [Paragon] MYTHOS you have? Maybe put the [Paragon] tag on it themself? Also, note that this is better than the other skill-maxing Excellencies I have seen since it grants a free rank in everything you don't already have ranks in.

Dimmet more or less made the point I was going to make, but to add to what he said.

The mechanical reason for 1 point for everything upon first buy is basically to simulate the property of Able Learner while not outright giving it to them since it requires human or doppelganger race. I could ignore that but it doesn't sit too well with me. The main point of that point is to allow for you to gain the 'trained' bonus (either the ability to use it at all or the ability to get higher than a 10 depending on your rules). Giving a replacement of the free skillpoint in all skills would not be undue, but it would be replaced with an aid another bonus that would do the same thing.


Command Across the Land[Commander]
Where are the Commander feat and its sequels? As far as I can see [Commander] is just a tag.

It's from Dragon Magazine and I got it from this list (http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf) of all 3.5 feats from WotC. I actually had to look it up. If you have better feats I'd gladly take them over such obscure feats that I pulled out of an overly large list by searching for 'commander'.


See, to me, the underlined portion is the exact OPPOSITE of a Paragon.

Again to Demmit on this one. The main point of the paragon is to turn you from a reasonable, grounded leader into a larger then life leader who's over-the-top stories are more fact then fiction. Paragon turns you from ordinary [insert race] to perfect [insert race], not good, or nice.
Iskandar from Fate/Zero is the main inspiration of Paragon.


Also, this may be more on the power level of a Mythos... but it doesn't have the raw cool factor for actual play to support that. It is too passive. Keep it as an Excellency, but add some prerequisites?


I could see adding a prerequisite to it, moving it from a level 1 ability to a legendary or fantastic tier ability would make sense.
The ability as it is though I can't really see changing it because to be a leader implies you are a with other people. A leader is not a leader in a vacuum. So still having the requirement of needing sustenance does not hurt that much, plus it encourages acting in a larger then life fashion (as an aside of support to this idea, it was said that Otto van Bismark of Germany would drink a bottle of champagne and smoke five cigars at once at breakfast).
The class's inability to live in a vacuum comes into play with it 'immortality' abilities. Both Immortality of the True Leader Shintai and True Multiplicitous Mask Controlling Shintai both require others in order to continue existing. This class cannot live without others because if it did so it would stop being a leader.


Ever Vigilant Watcher[Paragon]
Name needs work... I would expect this to give Spot bonuses,Slippery Devil[Manipulator] Darkvision, Low-Light Vision, and/or remove the need for sleep.


I like this idea, though to an extent I would like to completely replace it with something better. That is a far better version and I'll probably change it to give that.



Loyalty to a Grand Idea

One of your Branch bonuses I assume? This should be more explicit.

I have a Good PR Guy[Autocrat]
Somewhat anachronistic name... perhaps something along the lines of "Play the Threads of Rumor and Legend-making Like A Harp [Autocrat]"?

A little anachronism never hurt, though that name (if a bit long) is far better and will probably be used in part.


A Shining Capitol on a Hill[Autocrat]

Since this is the first mechanical benefit (rather than requirement) listed, I would remove the word "Additionally"

Slippery Devil[Manipulator]

"hindered in actions" could include anything that kills you, plus most or all things with the [Mind Effecting] tag. Not to mention Climb, Balance, Tumble, Swim, and maybe even Survival and Knowledge(Geography). Might want to tighten the wording up...

Will alter and update to remove these issue. Check again in a short while to see changes.


Now for new ideas... (Brainstorming, may contain huge flaws, ideas that are just not possible to execute, or even ideas that don't fit the class at all).
A Mind Worth Following
Immunity to reduction to mental ability scores. Might start out with just damage, then scale to penalties, then drain? Maybe a sequel that requires AT LEAST level 18 and probably higher, that lets you ignore Burn, but still gain the benefits of it... but that would almost be worthy of an Exalted mythos with that excellency as a prerequisite because of the amount of cheese that could create.

Like the ability to ignore mental score damage/drain, though not sure if that would be a mythos or excellency, but I could see it as a middle tier excellency. Negating the effects of burn, but gaining the benefits does sound questionable as I can easily see someone trying to become a Megaligeti/Teramach and abusing oddities between them.


Leadership by Example
All allies within LoS gain +X bonus to any action you have undertaken within the past round. For checks that last longer than a round (for instance Craft), you must continue to perform the type of check for the full time they are performing that check, although only the first round and Y rounds per hour is LoS required. Separate craft skills count as the same as eachother for this purpose, PROVIDED they are part of some unified goal (which could be anything from "build this golem body that requires checks in 4 different craft skills" to "rebuild this town after it was razed to the ground"). This does not apply to knowledge checks to recall information (if you recall it, then why would they need to? And if you fail to recall it, you set a lower bar*), however it DOES apply to checks to blaze new grounds (including re-inventing/discovering techniques and ideas that you could not recall well enough to duplicate).
*Actually, maybe all bonuses from this excellency should only apply to checks you SUCCEED on?

I like to an extent, but it feels a bit odd. Requiring some success would probably be a good start, but I'm not sure how I would rearrange immediately, but I can see potential in it.

Beat a DC to gain any success or progress and in turn give a bonus to allies who attempt to do the same. Sounds nice and concise. But, I'll have to let it marinate some more before I take it off the back burner.


Martyr
(Stuff about when you are rendered unable to conduct a particular goal despite your very best, holding nothing back, efforts, your allies gain bonuses to it... and if this class is punished for failing by its basic mechanics it partially to completely negates this.)

It's too vague for me to give much comment on this, though there is a bit of potential in the surface idea of giving bonuses to allies if you fail. It has a nice Kamina feel to it.


Sink or Swim Mentor (with a lifeline held ready) (Partially inspired by Princess Celestia)
Allies gain additional bonuses when you stand back from the very beginning of a particular challenge and refuse to become involved in any way. If they are all rendered unable to continue, then you may step in, and YOU gain bonuses.

While not inherently bad on it's own, I don't quite feel it jiving with the idea of a mythic leader. Maybe flip it.

If you do not help an ally with a challenge and they fail, you may give them an inspiring pat on the back, allowing them to try again and giving them a bonus of (either your Charisma/ level scaling bonus/ or flat bonus (+3-+5 range)).

*sigh* now to answer your other question on the main thread.

[DracoDei]

I have no idea what Fate/Zero is about really... is that the one with the Holy Grail and spirits bonded to humans? Of course, that is somewhat irrelevant, since I think expanding on what that character is, or picking a different example/explaining without referencing outside works would be good.

I'm only slightly more familiar with Code Geass, so... pretty much ditto.

All Mythos characters tend to be "larger than life". Thus it seems to me that with that sort of logic, you could technically justify giving them every mythos and excellency of all the mythos classes. Since it is blindingly obvious that that isn't your intention, perhaps you could clarify where the boundaries are on that? For one thing it just seems to me that not all skills are equally inspirational.

A larger question that the above probably falls under: What, if anything, is this class allowed to be REALLY BAD at regardless of how you build within the class? Teramachs are bad at peaceful resolutions, Phileotheysia are bad at offense and when separated from allies*. I don't know about other Mythos classes...

*There is an excellency that somewhat fixes these two problems when they occur together, but it is purposely designed to still make them very lack-luster under those circumstances.

[Jakman217]

I have no idea what Fate/Zero is about really... is that the one with the Holy Grail and spirits bonded to humans? Of course, that is somewhat irrelevant, since I think expanding on what that character is, or picking a different example/explaining without referencing outside works would be good.

I'm only slightly more familiar with Code Geass, so... pretty much ditto.

Apologies. I'd like link to some clips of him I can't find any that are good enough. Honestly, I'd suggest watching it since it's very good. I'll try my best to describe him, he is probably the most central afterall.

Iskandar, Charismatic as all hell. When everyone else hides their identity and skulks into combat, he rides in on a chariot that causes constant lightning strikes, proclaims his identity, asks his enemies to join him, and offers to share the rewards of conquest. More than strong enough to hold his own in combat against better combatants, but never so strong as to be a commanding force on his own. When he needs extreme combat he summons up an army of heroes to fight with him, and leads them from the front.

It's that logic that lead me to chose Kamina over Simon in the examples. Simon is self-sufficient in combat, commanding the field of battle while being supported by his team. Kamina is decent enough in combat, but better when given the ability to strategize. More importantly he's inspirational, regardless of how good he is, when someone is not doing well enough (simone *cough*) he walks in to kick them in the pants and keep them moving forward.

Same with Balalaika (bottom row, 2nd from the left), cruel, vendictive, commanding and the most terrifying though she would probably die to almost every other character of the show. Mostly because she commands and leads her mob like a military outfit, and her men look up to her.


All Mythos characters tend to be "larger than life". Thus it seems to me that with that sort of logic, you could technically justify giving them every mythos and excellency of all the mythos classes. Since it is blindingly obvious that that isn't your intention, perhaps you could clarify where the boundaries are on that? For one thing it just seems to me that not all skills are equally inspirational.

A larger question that the above probably falls under: What, if anything, is this class allowed to be REALLY BAD at regardless of how you build within the class? Teramachs are bad at peaceful resolutions, Phileotheysia are bad at offense and when separated from allies*. I don't know about other Mythos classes...

They are bards mixed with knights. Actually, that's not quite right. They are the Dinyomi, with no questionable morality built in, and a broader sense of leadership. That's the most direct way of putting it.

They are not one man armies, but one army under them is worth two.

They are not skill monkeys who can solve everything, but have enough broad knowledge to at least give mildly helpful input on anything.

They can tank if needed and give bonuses to others when they do, but they are not the Agios.


*There is an excellency that somewhat fixes these two problems when they occur together, but it is purposely designed to still make them very lack-luster under those circumstances.

What are you talking about here?

: end I'm not sure if I'm succeeding at explaining, but it's easier to watch some of the examples than to explain them.

[DracoDei]

Sorry, not going to purchase anything just for this, and too honest to pirate it. MIGHT be able to borrow my brother's copy of Code Geas at some point... You think hitting TVTropes would get me anywhere for some or all of these things?

Dinyomi is another thing I'm not recalling... is that another Mythos class?

That thing you were wondering about at the end was regarding the Phileotheysia's weaknesses and my admitting that I included a "way around it", but an intentionally lack-luster one. At one point someone critiquing a print-out of the predecessor, non-mythos, class said that his GM would intentionally and basically unavoidably split the party from time to time. That seems like a pretty rare GMing style, but I included an excellency that people in such campaigns could take if they were really concerned about it.

tl;dr Never mind the footnote in my previous message.

[Jakman217]

Sorry, not going to purchase anything just for this, and too honest to pirate it. MIGHT be able to borrow my brother's copy of Code Geas at some point... You think hitting TVTropes would get me anywhere for some or all of these things?

Two words: Crunchy Roll (http://www.crunchyroll.com/). Free and legal streaming that requires no log in. They probably have both dub and sub versions as well.


Dinyomi is another thing I'm not recalling... is that another Mythos class?

Why Yes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429524-quot-I-Refuse-No-Road-to-Power-quot-Mythic-3-5) it is. It is what inspired me to make this class. I loved the dinyomi but hated how it pretty much shoehorned itself into being either gloriously evil or a prick of a good guy. There's a reason it's called the Mythic Conqueror.

[DracoDei]

This does then bring up time/energy issues, but I suppose I could maybe give it a shot and see if any of the series in question grab my interest within an episode or two... we shall see...

Also, let me move the major portion of an edit that I started on when understanding hit me a few minutes after I got up from typing my previous message down here, since you almost certainly would miss it otherwise:
After a few minute's further pondering I think I've decided that you must have something in mind, and the fact that I can only grasp around the edge of it is beside the point. Keep doing what you are doing, you seem to have a clear idea in mind of the sort of build/characters you want to make possible.

But... let me just throw in the exact opposite of what you are saying about competence, because I think it can make a very inspiring leader too (and thus I would like to see the class able to support both with different builds)...

Imagine someone who is... Okay, this is Mythos, so they are probably not utterly incompetent at actually doing things themselves compared to other characters. But let's say that they have a very narrow and sharply defined range of high competence. Outside of that? They are "pick a random guy out of everyone in this city" level of competent (perhaps with adjustment for ability scores, and definitely adjusted for gear... but whatever... beside the point)... or perhaps they are at least fluffed, and perhaps even build some crunch around it that they fail SPECTACULARLY when they get outside their competence zone. So at the very least the player intrupts the GM whenever the GM describes them failing at something with normal results for a failure and provides their own description which turns the whole thing into something that for most characters/players would be considered unfairly humiliating the character.

BUT! when they fail at something? The character just gets up and tries again, regardless of if there is any hope. Because it is OBVIOUS to anyone with half a brain/a shred of decency/whatever character trait DOESN'T show up well on a character sheet usually that this thing should be done. Which means if their are people around who can do it better, then it only reflects even WORSE on them that they aren't already doing it. So they are causing people to make will saves or making free diplomacy checks with big bonuses, or whatever... and so someone is going to go help them. And THEN, because they are so inspirational, they start providing a good bonus to the overall efforts (even if mechanically they are on the Aid Another side of things rather than the one doing the main rolling). In those moments, they aren't what people aspire to be, they are what people are ashamed that they aren't already. "Stone Soup" may be a related concept.

[Jakman217]

But... let me just throw in the exact opposite of what you are saying about competence, because I think it can make a very inspiring leader too (and thus I would like to see the class able to support both with different builds)...

[Snip]

Looked through tvtropes for a quick example, but couldn't really find a good one. Though looking for another link to explain things led me to the Magnificent Bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard). Which does cover a fair number of the points. Just pick and chose out of them except the one about charisma and you've probably got a character to play in this class. As for watching something, I suggest Fate/Zero as it's the most mature, consistent, and has Rider/Iskandar, one of the main inspirations for the class, and extols a paragon/Commander build of the class.

The reason why I split the powers into 5 branches was just for the purpose of allowing you to specialize or avoid things. You don't have to take any branch if you don't want to, there are other options. Don't want to play Iskandar? Don't go too far into paragon. Don't want to play lellouch? Don't get all of Manipulator. and so on.

I would love to see the build you describe, but at the same time I see it as more a problem of how the player roleplays rather than a limit built into the class. That being said, an ability that supports it more readily would be appreciated. As it stands the build would emphasis commander, diplomat, and/or manipulator. More importantly it would heavily avoid paragon and autocrat as they make the character more inherently impressive and more outright controlling respectively.

Addendum: As a note, Iskandar from Fate/Zero is among the more extreme positive/good examples, as he's large boisterous, and always positive and receptive to his followers. Throw in a dab of zeus blood from legend and he's a perfect specimen. If there was a deep end of the over the top leader pool, Iskandar would probably be swimming circles in it for fun.

[ThreadNecro5]

I've finally got around fully giving this a look, been distracted the past few days.

Overall things look good, but I have a few points to make on improvements:

First, the Excellency Force of Will could be a little better worded, I'd suggest something like the following:
You become more resilient to mental attacks and commands. You gain a bonus on will saves against compulsions equal to +1/2 your Megaligati Level.

At level 7 this bonus expands to all mind-effecting effects.

At level 13 this bonus expands to cover illusions as well.

At level 18 it expands to cover all will saves, and you are immune to all compulsions.

just a small nit-pick on wording.

in Command Across the Land it references something called commander, but do not explicitly call it a bonus feat. For the sake of clarity you should probably state it so, and from that book Commander is from for ease of referencing it in game.

Finally I don't quite understand what exactly the Mythos A Game of Gambits is actually doing. I think the problem is in the lack of methodical mechanics, by which I mean what exactly you are doing and how you do it is rather ill defined. I like what (I think) you seem to be going for however. Also what are you basing the Average points/gambit on? if the pointing is based on the difficulty on pulling off that type of gambit it seems off with things like the memory gambit being ranked so low, despite the fact that deliberately doing so seems difficult (or is the low value there to make it easier to use the basic manifestation to pull this sort of thing off? On the topic of the one Basic Manifestation why is there only one, if there is only ever one it might as well be part of the core mythos, or are you planning to add more?).

Sorry if I sound negative at all, listing what I would change just seems the best way I can offer support.

[Jakman217]

I've finally got around fully giving this a look, been distracted the past few days.

Overall things look good, but I have a few points to make on improvements:

First, the Excellency Force of Will could be a little better worded, I'd suggest something like the following:
You become more resilient to mental attacks and commands. You gain a bonus on will saves against compulsions equal to +1/2 your Megaligati Level.

At level 7 this bonus expands to all mind-effecting effects.

At level 13 this bonus expands to cover illusions as well.

At level 18 it expands to cover all will saves, and you are immune to all compulsions.

just a small nit-pick on wording.

Will change, it's no harm to me and makes it more clear.


in Command Across the Land it references something called commander, but do not explicitly call it a bonus feat. For the sake of clarity you should probably state it so, and from that book Commander is from for ease of referencing it in game.

Commander is an obscure feat from dragon magazine I got from this 3.5 feat index (http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf). I'll clarify it, but I'd also like to ask for a better feat or featline to touch upon in general anyway. It's obscure enough that there are probably better options, however I don't know my feats that well.


Finally I don't quite understand what exactly the Mythos A Game of Gambits is actually doing. I think the problem is in the lack of methodical mechanics, by which I mean what exactly you are doing and how you do it is rather ill defined. I like what (I think) you seem to be going for however. Also what are you basing the Average points/gambit on? if the pointing is based on the difficulty on pulling off that type of gambit it seems off with things like the memory gambit being ranked so low, despite the fact that deliberately doing so seems difficult (or is the low value there to make it easier to use the basic manifestation to pull this sort of thing off? On the topic of the one Basic Manifestation why is there only one, if there is only ever one it might as well be part of the core mythos, or are you planning to add more?).

With that description of the Game of gambits you've basically pointed out my problem with the diplomacy branch in general.

To attempt to 'save' it it is best described as such. A Game of Gambits (and much of the diplomacy branch in general) allows for the direct application, and use of larger story plot tropes. In this case it turns both the megaligeti and his enemy into players of the game. They hatch plots and schemes to gain advantages over their opponent. Such plots use gambits to gain an advantage and if they succeed at the plot they gain points for the gambits they used. The points can then be used to guarantee gambits in later plots, giving you advantages in your plots, but otherwise not guaranteeing success.

I would like more manifestations to it, but again, giving an overhaul to the diplomacy tree in general would not be amiss. Diplomacy is by far the weakest branch since most of it's abilities are basically (insert vaguely diplomatic, longer term, and noncombat B.S.).


Sorry if I sound negative at all, listing what I would change just seems the best way I can offer support.

Negative is fine, afterall I can't really improve if the flaws aren't found. Plus, the critique of A Game of Gambits is entirely accurate.

[Jakman217]

@DracoDei

Oh, from your idea. How does this sound.


There is no Try Mantra [Diplomat]
Prerequisites: -

When confronted with impossible odds a leader does not believe in try. You either fail, or succeed, do or do not. And when failure is not an option, his allies are broken and demoralized, and all hope is lost to them he will push forward.

Upon taking this mythos, when an ally rolls a skill you may roll to aid another and if you succeed in aiding another you instead add +5, rather than +2.

Basic:

Esprit De Core Inspiration: Whenever you make a skill roll and fail you may begin adding a bonus to an ally who attempts to complete or succeed at the task. For every attempt you make before they attempt you give them an additional +1. This caps at your charisma modifier. {Cannot be used with On Your Feet Soldier}

On Your Feet Soldier: Whenever an ally attempts a skill check and fails you may, as a free action, give them an inspiring word, and let them try again. The ally also rolls twice and takes the higher between them. {Cannot be used with Esprit De Core}

Advanced:

Lead by Example: When you are the first one to attempt a task, then continue helping when an ally joins you may give them the bonuses of both Esprit De Core Inspiration, and On Your Feet Soldier.



How does this sound? Any expansions, deletions, or alterations?

[DracoDei]

That would be one way of doing it. I don't know about the numbers, but the overall idea is something you should keep.

I say this because it isn't at all what I was thinking of. I was thinking of picking as many skills as you like that you DON'T have skill point in. You take -10 to those skills except when aiding another to do something you have already failed at, but every time you fail, everyone who sees you has to... well, let me throw some random mechanics out... they make ONE will save and subtract one quarter their modifier to that skill. When the number of times they have seen you fail (or full rounds you have obviously spent trying for things like knowledge checks that are free actions?) exceeds the will save, they must pitch in to help. Immunity to mind effecting doesn't help against this.

So... if you want to rework that into something actually useful, be my guest.

For the first basic manifestation, you might want to clarify that the ADDITIONAL bonus, beyond the +5 caps at your charisma modifier.

"On Your Feet Soldier" makes it sound like they get three roles total. One initial, and then two extra. Which is actually fine, provided the "roll two take the highest" applies to the NEXT TIME they try to do that some thing... although that isn't nearly as nice. Also, the way you have it might technically give infinite tries, and even if it doesn't it is way too spammable. Increase the action, or limit it to once per round or charisma score times per day or something.

[Jakman217]

I say this because it isn't at all what I was thinking of. I was thinking of picking as many skills as you like that you DON'T have skill point in. You take -10 to those skills except when aiding another to do something you have already failed at, but every time you fail, everyone who sees you has to... well, let me throw some random mechanics out... they make ONE will save and subtract one quarter their modifier to that skill. When the number of times they have seen you fail (or full rounds you have obviously spent trying for things like knowledge checks that are free actions?) exceeds the will save, they must pitch in to help. Immunity to mind effecting doesn't help against this.

This way of doing things, or at least explaining things, feels bad to me. Less like a show of Inspirational determination, and more a manipulative plea to help the fool. If this were used in a mythos character based on the fool it would fit in well, but the way you put in here... It feels like the character is pretending to be a mentally challenged individual in order to pity people into helping him. A perverse manipulation rather than a legitimate show of determination.

The main reason I feel that is because it requires a will save to effectively resist doing the right thing. If it were a bonus or negation of penalties such as fear effects and [insert equivalent for demoralization] I would look more kindly upon it. But as it's written it feels manipulative rather than inspiring.

Edit: It's sitting on the wrong side of the line between inspiration and manipulation.


For the first basic manifestation, you might want to clarify that the ADDITIONAL bonus, beyond the +5 caps at your charisma modifier.

"On Your Feet Soldier" makes it sound like they get three roles total. One initial, and then two extra. Which is actually fine, provided the "roll two take the highest" applies to the NEXT TIME they try to do that some thing... although that isn't nearly as nice. Also, the way you have it might technically give infinite tries, and even if it doesn't it is way too spammable. Increase the action, or limit it to once per round or charisma score times per day or something.

These I'll take to heart. and make these alterations.

There is no Try Mantra [Diplomat]
[snip]

Upon taking this mythos, when an ally rolls a skill you may roll to aid another and if you succeed in aiding another you instead add +5, rather than +2. You may also attempt aid another checks as a move rather than a standard action.

Basic:

Esprit De Core Inspiration[Inspire by trying in spite of failure]: Whenever you make an skill roll on your own (no allies aiding you, no rolling to aid another) and fail you may begin adding a bonus to an ally who attempts to complete or succeed at the task without you. For every attempt you make before they attempt you give them an additional +1. This bonus caps at your charisma modifier. {It cannot be used with On Your Feet Soldier}

On Your Feet Soldier[Inspire when an ally fails by telling them to get up and go again]: Whenever an ally attempts a skill check and fails you may, as a free action, give them an inspiring word, and let them try again immediately. They cannot be given this again for the same check. {Cannot be used with Esprit De Core}

Advanced:

Lead by Example[Inspire despite failure and follow through with help]: When you meet the conditions of Esprit De Core Inspiration, you can follow through, aiding them, and bolstering them. Allies may roll twice and take the higher with your Esprit De Core Inspiration bonus and aid another check.

Addition: And, upon thinking it over, I will remove the +1 rank in all skills, but replace it with the ability to use it as though it were trained, and maintain turning them into class skills.

[Dimmet]

Also, I want to thank you for this class, Jak. I've a tenth level Courtier/Megaligeti gestalt (with some Golden Alchemist sprinkled in) based on Sinbad from Magi. It was just the social boost I needed to make a truly awe-inspiring leader of men. My DM for this game is so impressed that the character has moved up to the leader of the Merchant Guild in his nation and is on his way to setting up his own kingdom. He's quickly become one of my favorite characters (and said DM's), and I'm just enjoying the mess out of the intrigue and political combat from jealous nobles and rivals.

[ThreadNecro5]

Commander is an obscure feat from dragon magazine I got from this 3.5 feat index (http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf). I'll clarify it, but I'd also like to ask for a better feat or featline to touch upon in general anyway. It's obscure enough that there are probably better options, however I don't know my feats that well.

I've just went looking and found some feats that might be appropriate for something.

So, with the Commander feat, possibly replace it with something from http://dndtools.pw/feats/categories/leader/.

or as another idea that is suitable to the concept of the Excellency, have it grant a specific feat to all allies within Xft of you and/or who can themselves see you. Have the granted feat able to be swapped out as a move action or something. perhaps use these feats to show the flexible nature of a commander:http://dndtools.pw/feats/categories/tactical/.

[Jakman217]

I've just went looking and found some feats that might be appropriate for something.

So, with the Commander feat, possibly replace it with something from http://dndtools.pw/feats/categories/leader/.

or as another idea that is suitable to the concept of the Excellency, have it grant a specific feat to all allies within Xft of you and/or who can themselves see you. Have the granted feat able to be swapped out as a move action or something. perhaps use these feats to show the flexible nature of a commander:http://dndtools.pw/feats/categories/tactical/.

Problem with the leader feats is that they use leadership, and leadership is always something to complain about with someone.

Giving feats within an x ft radius is a good idea though. Giving tactical feats seems much better, though I think it may be valid to give the next level of weapon improvement feats or improved maneuver feats would work to what do you think?

[Jakman217]

Also, I want to thank you for this class, Jak. I've a tenth level Courtier/Megaligeti gestalt (with some Golden Alchemist sprinkled in) based on Sinbad from Magi. It was just the social boost I needed to make a truly awe-inspiring leader of men. My DM for this game is so impressed that the character has moved up to the leader of the Merchant Guild in his nation and is on his way to setting up his own kingdom. He's quickly become one of my favorite characters (and said DM's), and I'm just enjoying the mess out of the intrigue and political combat from jealous nobles and rivals.

Glad to hear that, It really makes me feel good. IS there any comments or ideas you'd like to add to this?

[Dimmet]

Glad to hear that, It really makes me feel good. IS there any comments or ideas you'd like to add to this?

One of the things I can say is keep going with your personal ideas, especially new ones. People are going to say 'just give it something that already exists and move on', and I don't think you should take that sort of advice except as a basis from which to work and add your own flavor. Usually these things as-is are like a +1 and people nod their heads thinking it's significant or fits the archetype or matters any on the table, and it really doesn't. Trust your creativity, it's created a really fun Mythos class so far.

So far I'm running a Bellator/Warder (with Agios corruption), a Syntrofos/Trofodotis (with Kathodos corruption), and Megaligeti/Courtier with a dash of Dinyomi corruption to pick up some complimentary abilities that fit the character and mesh wonderfully with Megaligeti. I've never been able to get this degree of accuracy in building mechanics to fit a character idea before I found Mythos classes, and Mega's helped me a great deal with one of my favorite characters. So keep up the good work.

[ThreadNecro5]

Problem with the leader feats is that they use leadership, and leadership is always something to complain about with someone.

Giving feats within an x ft radius is a good idea though. Giving tactical feats seems much better, though I think it may be valid to give the next level of weapon improvement feats or improved maneuver feats would work to what do you think?

Sorry it has been a while since I have looked here. Anyway that sound like it could work and makes sense concept wise.

Also I have a couple Ideas you could use in something:

For the first the idea just came into my head before I began typing this so you probably already have something like this and I've forgotten. So to go along with the 'Wisdom of a leader' idea allow others to use the characters Skill ranks (and possibly BAB?) for a single future roll as a Standard action (the specific roll itself being chosen by the character). This could possibly instead be preformed over a minute to allow the bonus to extend over either a single crafting project (and any similar extended thing of a similar nature) or for all rolls of the specified type for a number of hours equal to the characters Wis or Cha Modifier. The general idea being you manage to, with a mixture of advice and inspiration, temporarily allow another to mimic your skill.

The other idea is something for a social character. Allow, instead of attack rolls, a Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate check to be made to damage a creature (consider a separate benefit for each type of roll, Intimidate could cause fear or a penalty on rolls, while Diplomacy could allow you to deal charisma damage as you literally wound their pride). Not entirely sure how to fluff it however, perhaps something to do with the Leaders skill with words being the only weapon they need (when a Megaligeti chooses to talk their way out of a situation no weapons need be drawn)?

[Dimmet]

Also, one more bit of advice I can give.

The original version of Words From A True God was far superior and more Exalted-worthy than what we see here on Gitp. Geas/Quest one time per person? Megaligeti was already involved in Geas with their contract forging earlier on in their career, and has other ways to gain access to the actual spell if they so feel the need to use it for any reason. It is just not Exalted level in its current incarnation. The original, however, was. Though you would definitely not make a basic Charisma check with those kinds of DCs for the higher-reach 'abilities' it granted until deep into Epic or some kind of shenanigans best left to Theoretical Optimization.

Perhaps a Diplomacy check with those DCs? Being able to cajole reality into going along with what you want to do seems like a fitting Exalted-tier mythos for this class.

Either way, please consider reverting Words From A True God. I'm still using the previous version for when my character attains such lofty levels, and would like others who take this class to know how fun an idea it is.

That aside, there are a couple of excellencies that reduce the DC for Glorious Self-Realizing, which effectively become half-defunct if/once you take Cloaked in Perfection Incarnate (no reason why you shouldn't at Legendary tier). Could you perhaps add a little spice there? Some sort of alternate bonus if you don't need to make checks for Glorious Self?

[Jakman217]

Sorry for the prolonged response, just started a new job. But that's beside the point.


Also, one more bit of advice I can give.

The original version of Words From A True God was far superior and more Exalted-worthy than what we see here on Gitp. Geas/Quest one time per person? Megaligeti was already involved in Geas with their contract forging earlier on in their career, and has other ways to gain access to the actual spell if they so feel the need to use it for any reason. It is just not Exalted level in its current incarnation. The original, however, was. Though you would definitely not make a basic Charisma check with those kinds of DCs for the higher-reach 'abilities' it granted until deep into Epic or some kind of shenanigans best left to Theoretical Optimization.

Perhaps a Diplomacy check with those DCs? Being able to cajole reality into going along with what you want to do seems like a fitting Exalted-tier mythos for this class.

Either way, please consider reverting Words From A True God. I'm still using the previous version for when my character attains such lofty levels, and would like others who take this class to know how fun an idea it is.

I will take this to heart, and comparing the original with the current I have to agree that the original was better. The main reason why I dropped it was that I didn't like the numbers. They were arbitrary, and with the expected charisma of the character (I expect about 32 to be the effective cap in pre-epic levels give or take). Rolling most of those check would be effectively pointless. I'd rather not simply make up numbers, but if you have any suggested numbers then please do suggest them.



That aside, there are a couple of excellencies that reduce the DC for Glorious Self-Realizing, which effectively become half-defunct if/once you take Cloaked in Perfection Incarnate (no reason why you shouldn't at Legendary tier). Could you perhaps add a little spice there? Some sort of alternate bonus if you don't need to make checks for Glorious Self?

I'll add this as well with Cloaked in Perfection Incarnate. It's a good idea, and by that time the roll they would need to beat is sub 10, effectively making it an automatic success. Though I'm not as certain as to how it would be spiced up. Again, ideas, even vague ones are helpful.

[Norngremlin]

One immediate problem I spotted while (briefly) looking this over:
The [ability] Perfecting Desire Excellency is listed as "Prerequisite: -".

You should probably make it require Fantastic Mythos, like pretty much every other Mythos class does.

(Also, the table is horizontally squished, fyi)

[Jakman217]

One immediate problem I spotted while (briefly) looking this over:
The [ability] Perfecting Desire Excellency is listed as "Prerequisite: -".

You should probably make it require Fantastic Mythos, like pretty much every other Mythos class does.

(Also, the table is horizontally squished, fyi)

While looking around to confirm I did notice a few that didn't as well. But I'll agree and change it up. I also noticed that many have a limited range of bonuses so I'll ad that in also. Change it from any to Str. Con. and Cha.