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View Full Version : Starting a session with: Roll Initiative!



TheWarBlade
2007-06-16, 08:27 AM
Heard this on the D&D podcast. A session starting with a fight should focus your group and draw attention away from pizza/books/teletubbies. Anyone got experiences with this?

CrazedGoblin
2007-06-16, 08:31 AM
what do you mean?

Talya
2007-06-16, 08:36 AM
It's called in media res, (literally, "into the middle of things") and is a storytelling technique used to great effect in many movies. There's no reason for it not to work in a game.

KIDS
2007-06-16, 08:36 AM
It looks like it works but again, it depends on the players as many other things do. Perhaps if you slam your fist down on the table while you say that, it will work reliably.

Ceres
2007-06-16, 08:41 AM
Whether this is a good way to start a session really depends on how fast-paced you are able to make your combat. If there are a lot of PCs fighting a large number of monsters, having everyone wait for their turn will often result in the players discussing pizza/books/teletubbies.

In a system like Feng Shui, you should always start your sessions with combat, but in the sometimes slow-paced combat-system of D&D it really depends on the combat.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2007-06-16, 08:41 AM
As a player, I know nothing gets me more excited than the prospect of combat and the delicious, full-bodied taste of D&D brand 'summer fresh' XP, with a burst of experiential flavor.

In seriousness; for the majority of character types, combat is a chance to flaunt their powers, and for the majority of players, combat is a chance to flaunt their build.

So let em' have it at the beggining, in media res et. al., and see how it goes. Should go well, if I know anything, and I do.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-16, 08:42 AM
We just did this over on the PbP boards. I suppose it went ok, but there was a lack of coordination that nearly killed half the party.

Fax Celestis
2007-06-16, 09:24 AM
We just did this over on the PbP boards. I suppose it went ok, but there was a lack of coordination that nearly killed half the party.

PbP is notorious for that, though.

Inigo_Carmine
2007-06-16, 10:02 AM
I actually like starting some campaigns like that (after giving the backstory and the leadup to the situation of course).

Campaign beginnings are usually done really weakly and awkwardly (rare exceptions exist), and this lets the players start off on the right foot. Gives the characters some initial comradeship and something to talk about instead of "So Gaeleth....how bout this weather we're having. Really hope those goblins don't invade this year..."

Plus, combats at low levels tend to be quick and vicious, which is really good for getting everyone to focus on the game.

Renx
2007-06-16, 10:20 AM
Start with all characters participating in a festival, unknown to each other. Then start the invasion. People around them start dying, they'll most likely end up grouping up.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-16, 10:44 AM
I started an Earthdawn campaign on the assumption that all the party members came in second place in various contests in a Unity Festival. The festival had many cultures participating, not all of which are openly friendly to one another. Since the winners of the contest were too valueable to their various cultures, they were kept as defenders. However, second place people were 'expendable' and thus put together in a show of unity. On the eve of the last day of the festival, all the winners were found dead in their tents except for the windling champion (windlings are like pixies). As it turned out, the medals were actually deadly scarab beetles that transformed and killed the owner. The medal was too big for the windling so he wasn't wearing it that night.

That left the group with a mystery to solve.

de-trick
2007-06-16, 11:49 AM
Initiative

1d20+2

i had a funeral for a murder and party hired to make sure no one trys to resurect him. Then spiders started to come out then the body gets stolen and the party had to get the body back before he got resurected

Laurellien
2007-06-16, 12:01 PM
I'm going to have to try this...

Rad
2007-06-16, 05:28 PM
well, that depends on where you left over from last session :smallbiggrin:
No, seriously.

As for beginning the campaign like that, actually that depends on what the background of your characters are. Even if the first thing you do together is a combat scene the PCs did have some story before.

Kurald Galain
2007-06-16, 05:38 PM
Or, roll some dice behind the GM screen, ignore the results, and grin.

asqwasqw
2007-06-16, 05:51 PM
It would be funny to do that in a PbP thread if you are a DM. just roll dice without any labels of what they are for. Watch em sweat.

Thrawn183
2007-06-16, 09:54 PM
The thing is, its just so easy to set up this way. Party's in any kind of travelling? Random encounter. Party's sitting around in the inn? Have them harrassed (assuming they have some kind of actual consistant foe). Party's been flaunting their resources? Rogues try and steal it all (and have a least a decent chance of failing of course). Party's about to start travelling? Have a dragon attack the town. Waiting around in a town for some event x that happens y units of time later? Necromancer gets a little happy with the town grave yard. These can always be fairly simple and straightforward combat encounters that really help get people on the same page (especially considering how fast you can level and what new things characters become able to do).

The trick is finding a way of having fun with it. You know, a kid tries to grab a ball out of a storm drain in a big city and falls in. You hear screams. Turns out there is a beholder down there guarding something for somebody its made a deal with. There are umpteen bajillion things you could come up with. (I came up with all of these in like what... 5 min?)

Matthew
2007-06-17, 05:33 PM
Star Wars D6 used to recommend in media res as the way to begin each Adventure. I had pretty much had my fill of doing that by the end of my Star Wars tenure. It can be effective, but just like 'the Old Man in the Inn', it can be easily overused and become tiresome.

(In fact anything can become tiresome if repeated too often. In the last long term campaign I ran, my players used to complain about the weather a lot. "It never seems to be a sunny day around here").

Charity
2007-06-17, 05:44 PM
In the last long term campaign I ran, my players used to complain about the weather a lot.

You know that you're feeding steriotypes now Matthew.

I honestly wouldn't be too keen on the idea of starting in such a direct manner, I like a feel for the other characters to know how mine would react to their actions.

Matthew
2007-06-17, 05:47 PM
Bah, it's my hard northern upbringing (I was running this game in Surrey at the time). I just used the 'normal' weather patterns that I was used to...

Tallis
2007-06-17, 07:04 PM
I like the idea of doing this, my players often have a hard time coming up with reasons for their characters to work together and I think this would work very well. I have planned a campaign this way before, but unfortunately it fell apart before I actually got to start it, so I can't give you any tips based on experience.

Diggorian
2007-06-17, 07:53 PM
I found this fun especially for the years I ran Star Wars, In media res is intrinsic to the saga as all the movies start this way (Ep. III being the best IMO). I tried to make each session start with this technique. It also helped to get the steamventing slaughterlust out of the players early.

Fawsto
2007-06-17, 08:03 PM
Hehehe I started one of these... But was more like to "Your characters awake in a Burning Tavern, DECIDE FAST!"

I am planing to do something like that again, last time the palyers went nuts, mostly because 2 o' em were still finishing the sheets. >:).

As Borat would say: "Niiice!"

PaladinBoy
2007-06-17, 08:23 PM
As an avid roleplayer, I certainly don't mind starting with meeting my companions in the inn. Or on the streets....... that was the way our current campaign started. I developed a friendship with a fellow half-breed, forced one of them to come along because I was interested in his past, and invited the third along because he seemed like interesting (if not congenial) company. I do really like that approach, because it gives us a chance to become a team before having to display teamwork.

That said, there's nothing wrong with starting a session (or campaign) in media res. It can be an exciting plot device, if you don't annoy them by telling them that they've done X, Y, and Z since the last session. Actually, that might work for some military campaigns. (You recieved new orders, left for X battlefield......)

Grug
2007-06-17, 08:35 PM
Initiative

1d20+2

i had a funeral for a murder and party hired to make sure no one trys to resurect him. Then spiders started to come out then the body gets stolen and the party had to get the body back before he got resurected

Sounds like an adventure from Dungeon. Hint: The body is in a slaughterhouse by the water. It's guarded by some undead, Four brothers that are Rogues/Fighter (all level 2), and the last boss is a lvl4 necromancer girl.

Qooroo
2007-06-18, 12:14 AM
The sample episode in the Angel corebook started like this. There was just a little bit of boxed text describing a cult ritual, the the PCs kicking in the door and rolling initiative. It was great. I think part of why it worked was that it was a quick fight (interrupting the ritual led to the creation of the story's actual villain). Thus it thrust the characters into high adrenaline mode without delaying the plot-type stuff too long.

TheOOB
2007-06-18, 01:36 AM
I definatly think its important to start an encounter out with action of some kind, not neccesarly combat per say, but something exciting that will make the players pay attention. My rule is that a player should be making a character based roll once every 5 minutes or so. The quickest way to get a players attention is to make them use the skills and abilities that their characters whom they spent so long making possess.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-18, 03:19 AM
Starting with initiative can be a good change of pace especially if sessions take a long time to get started because the players are not focused on the game.

My last session spend a lot of time in the introduction phase as the players took an eternity trying to clear up their book-keeping and inventory (several players kept non-corresponding entries of the same items) and sell their goods etc.

I could have used some heavy handed paraphrasing of events or even have sprung an encounter on them to speed things up, but they were having a good time making in and out of game jokes, so there was not any compelling reason to do it.

It can be a fun and exciting way to force the players to get serious fast but as has already been said; everything in moderation.


Bah, it's my hard northern upbringing (I was running this game in Surrey at the time). I just used the 'normal' weather patterns that I was used to...

Ahh priceless, I see images of the monk ending up as friar Tuck, the Dervish becomes a River Dancer as they figure out that the exotic and magical adventure takes place in good ol' Britain (during showers) :smalltongue:

Charity
2007-06-18, 04:16 AM
Ahh priceless, I see images of the monk ending up as friar Tuck, the Dervish becomes a River Dancer as they figure out that the exotic and magical adventure takes place in good ol' Britain (during showers) :smalltongue:


*Will now be playing a Morris Dancing Dervish the very next chance he gets*

[BBEG]"Whats that jingly noise comming from the barracks?"

Jack Mann
2007-06-18, 04:33 AM
*Confiscates all handkerchiefs and bells* That will be enough of that, thank you.

Ethdred
2007-06-18, 07:46 AM
I wouldn't literally start with 'Roll initiative' because as a player I hate it when the DM doesn't give enough information about the situation. But starting with a combat isn't a bad idea. People have mentioned Star Wars, but I was thinking of the Bond films - especially the way that the pre-credit sequence often has nothing (or very little) to do with the plot of the film. It would be quite fun to have the players, several levels into the campaign, still trying to figure out how the half-orc bandits fit into the BBEG's plot.

Golthur
2007-06-18, 10:45 AM
I've had good experience with in media res, but then again I only use it every so often. Like anything else, if overused, it becomes boring.

I have outlawed using the "everyone meets at the inn" thing, though :smile:

Matthew
2007-06-18, 10:46 PM
Ahh priceless, I see images of the monk ending up as friar Tuck, the Dervish becomes a River Dancer as they figure out that the exotic and magical adventure takes place in good ol' Britain (during showers) :smalltongue:


*Will now be playing a Morris Dancing Dervish the very next chance he gets*

[BBEG]"Whats that jingly noise comming from the barracks?"



*Confiscates all handkerchiefs and bells* That will be enough of that, thank you.

Darn, so close and yet so far. At least we can still have a Friar Tuck style Monk... (interesting etymology, he has, some say 'Brother Blow', others give more crass meaning). Now that I think about it, the Player who first started complaining about the weather in my fictional world was Irish...

Charity
2007-06-19, 04:32 AM
^ I'd have put good money on them being welsh.



*Confiscates all handkerchiefs and bells* That will be enough of that, thank you.

Spoilsport
*bokks Jack on the bonce with a pathetic black stick in a dispondant manner and skips off halfheartedly*

I quite like the unrelated James bond style thing, just so they are constantly wondering what it was all about.

As for banning the pub, thats just heresy!

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-19, 05:09 AM
^ I'd have put good money on them being welsh.

I follow your line of thought. (Listening to Catatonia's "Road Rage")


As for banning the pub, thats just heresy!

Yes, make it a upper class place that only serves imported beer and uses coasters or a gay bar full of elves if you need a change of pace, but don't ban it!

Matthew
2007-06-19, 10:03 PM
Yeah, I have to say, it's not really D&D without one chance meeting at an Inn...

Charity
2007-06-20, 04:54 AM
I'm tempted now, in fact to run an entire adventure in an Inn...hmmm...
I wonder if I could run an entire campaign within 4 walls...
Hey Guy's we really ought to do this one, imagine the kudos!

In Ptolus you never really leave the city, can you go one better?

Edit - It will require some sort of TARDISesk features, and some serious repercussions for leaving before they call time..

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-20, 05:23 AM
Place the inn in Hell or The Abyss (do not call it Hell's Kitchen) and have the adventure start by having the party transported to a place in the vicinity.

"You wake up in a strange place and see a cozy little building on the top of the next hill.
You realize that the floor is made of fire and brimstone and that you are surrounded by Demons/Devils."
Roll initiative.


I think that would be incentive enough for staying in the inn;-)

Charity
2007-06-20, 05:34 AM
Place the inn in Hell or The Abyss (do not call it Hell's Kitchen) and have the adventure start by having the party transported to a place in the vicinity.

"You wake up in a strange place and see a cozy little building on the top of the next hill.
You realize that the floor is made of fire and brimstone and that you are surrounded by Demons/Devils."
Roll initiative.


I think that would be incentive enough for staying in the inn;-)

How about, tumbling through the Astral plane, that should be grim enough for lower level characters, then it could jaunt in and out of various planes. They couldn't leave just in case it leaves them stranded.
Ooo and we could have a Trapdoor like (http://www.toonhound.com/trapdoor.htm) portal

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-20, 06:07 AM
That would actually be a fun vehicle for some plane hopping and it could pick up various travelers along the way and/or the campaign adventure could be to figure out which of the patrons are causing it (or it could be the Astral Smurph or Toonhound living in the basement).

It should of course start by the party rolling initiative while being attacked by some kind of astral creature as they start falling...

Charity
2007-06-20, 08:00 AM
See now I am going to have to run it... All I need is a TPK...
Don't worry Ol, I wouldn't really do it.
As it goes this is sounding distinctly like a Dr Who style arrangement, without any of the choice of destination.
In fact I could have that as the quest, to stop the inn tumbling through the astral plane, what level will the wizard be able to screw this though.. wanders off to the SRD hmm is there anything before lvl 9 spells that will mess things up that you can think of?

doliemaster
2007-06-20, 08:07 AM
I didn't do this but I started the game with balance check, which if failed by more than 10 would have killed some of the characters, none of them having balance.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-06-20, 08:20 AM
See now I am going to have to run it... All I need is a TPK...
Don't worry Ol, I wouldn't really do it.
As it goes this is sounding distinctly like a Dr Who style arrangement, without any of the choice of destination.
In fact I could have that as the quest, to stop the inn tumbling through the astral plane, what level will the wizard be able to screw this though.. wanders off to the SRD hmm is there anything before lvl 9 spells that will mess things up that you can think of?

Plane Shift is level 7, but is easily countered by Dimensional Lock as long as you allow the are covered to be substantially larger.

One has to consider all the truth-telling and divination spells if it is to be run as a detective story though.

If you run this next time you can do the initiative thing twice:
Roll initiative... TPK! :smallbiggrin:
Roll intiative... ok you are in a inn and this and that astral being appears and attacks everyone in sight. :smallwink:

Golthur
2007-06-20, 09:49 AM
As for banning the pub, thats just heresy!

Hey, I'd never ban the pub, only starting the adventure by meeting at the pub, although the adventure-that-is-only-in-the-pub thing is twistedly appealing to me.

There are still plenty of drinking and bar fights in my games :amused:

Charity
2007-06-20, 10:27 AM
Thank the gods for small mercies, but even so the iconic guy in the shady corner of the bar adventure hook is a bread and butter staple of the D&D genre. Banning it is like banning longswords it's just *shudders* wrong.
I too am really warming to the pub based campaign, I fear it will be tricksome to run it entirely within 4 walls, (though I might see how far I can go with a 'Trapdoor' gating in adventures) but using the pub as a TARDIS like transport between campaign chunks should be reasonably straight forward.

I'm not starting another game for a while though, so I will have plenty of time to hone this lil idea.. i ought to go over to homebrew and ruthlessly pillage the ideas of get them to do all the legwork for me ask if they have any ideas to input.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-20, 10:55 AM
You could do the pub at the eye of a dimensional storm. So you step outside and get swirled away to your next adventure. Or better yet, you get summoned/called by a high level wizard to do stuff... you get to set your price too (within reason).

LotharBot
2007-06-20, 01:58 PM
If you're going to make the pub / inn / whatever inescapable, make it a tribute to the awful Star Trek: TNG episode "Casino Royale".

Glaivemaster
2007-06-20, 03:01 PM
Sounds a lot like that story in Sandman, where they get transported to the mysterious dimension travelling pub. They don't have interesting adventures though, just interesting stories

Charity
2007-06-20, 06:35 PM
Damn it there truely are no original stories..

Brother_Franklin
2007-06-20, 07:49 PM
You know what might be really cool? You could start with:

DM: The head and last surviving member of the militia describes to you and your party last night's Kobold Raid. ROLL INITIATIVE!

Players: Um what do the townspeople attack?

DM: (Sets up some lame looking human minis, one per player, and one half way cool looking mini. Then he tosses the players some index cards with the vital stats of the militia men.)
Your the hamlet's milita and this is the milita captian. It's night and you see at least two dozen beady Kobold eyes...


Then they can get a summary slaughtering from the Kobolds. This way the players will both fear and hate the Kobolds for once instead of just laughing at the running chunks of XP. (Oh and you can give RP rewards for the best deaths. 100xp for each good one and 200xp for the winner instead of combat experiance- cause the charaters didn't fight the Kobolds.)

What cha think?

Diggorian
2007-06-20, 08:15 PM
I was in a game with a PC that chose a Paranoid flaw for his character ... I've never seen initiative rolled so many times in one game. :smallbiggrin: The DM played it to the hilt:

"You're sitting in the pub waiting for your dinner to be served. Make a Listen check ... someone is coming from behind you, Roll Initiative!!!"

In the 'surprise' round, on the DM's turn:

"The waitress walks from behind you and places your sizzling mutton chop on the table. She almost says something pleasant, but merely backs away from your unsheathed sword."

We all chuckle. The player starts to eat, DM yells "Fort save!!! ... the meat is a little spicy, but still pretty good."

Golthur
2007-06-20, 08:25 PM
Thank the gods for small mercies, but even so the iconic guy in the shady corner of the bar adventure hook is a bread and butter staple of the D&D genre. Banning it is like banning longswords it's just *shudders* wrong.

Well, I often mercilessly ban elves and halflings, so I clearly have no respect for genre staples :amused:

Although, I have been tempted to create an enslavement-style campaign world where the halflings, tired of taking the brunt of everyone's jokes, are now the ruthless masters.


I too am really warming to the pub based campaign, I fear it will be tricksome to run it entirely within 4 walls, (though I might see how far I can go with a 'Trapdoor' gating in adventures) but using the pub as a TARDIS like transport between campaign chunks should be reasonably straight forward.

Or, you could do sort of a "city of doors" deal, where the various passages and rooms of the pub open into various realities. Not very original, I'm sure, but still could be very fun.


I was in a game with a PC that chose a Paranoid flaw for his character ... I've never seen initiative rolled so many times in one game. :smallbiggrin: The DM played it to the hilt:

"You're sitting in the pub waiting for your dinner to be served. Make a Listen check ... someone is coming from behind you, Roll Initiative!!!"

In the 'surprise' round, on the DM's turn:

"The waitress walks from behind you and places your sizzling mutton chop on the table. She almost says something pleasant, but merely backs away from your unsheathed sword."

We all chuckle. The player starts to eat, DM yells "Fort save!!! ... the meat is a little spicy, but still pretty good."

OK, now that was funny.

Penguinsushi
2007-06-20, 08:31 PM
As some have said, I've never started with that exactly - I've always given some kind of set up.

That said, I *have* found that a combat very near the beginning of the session does, in fact, help to get everyone into the game from the start - a focus which can, under some circumstances, keep for the remainder of the session.

I won't contrive combats for this reason solely, but if one makes sense early on I often consider using it.

~PS

herrhauptmann
2007-06-20, 09:56 PM
First adventure I ran, was for my brother and his friends.
2 of them decide to be brothers in-game. Started those two out in their kitchen. What do they do? They grab their friends and go to the bar. Their first ever D&D game, and they already know to go to the bar if they want to start something. (Bless their little hearts)

I started the action with a gold dragon descending on teh town with a rider. Rider says, "If you want to be heroes, you can. But if you want to actually be told what's happening by the mayor, you have to take the test. If you pass, you get a badge, saying you're trusted. It also means you can get summoned to aid the country when in need. I'm you're examiner."

Big power fighter, walking around with a clipboard. Made them nice and paranoid every time I made a note. Half the time, the examiner was doodling.

BRC
2007-06-20, 10:02 PM
I GM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_RPG, and since a good portion of the game involves the players backstabbing each other, its fun to watch everybodys reaction when one person passes me a note. Also, nervous players in three easy steps

Step 1: Roll the dice a few times so the players cant' see the rolls
Step 2: Ask for people's spot and listen scores (or appropriate skill depending on what game your playing)
Step 3: Mutter to yourself abit
Step 4: Mark somthing on a sheet of paper