infinite age char?

[Aleolus]

Hello all. I recently had an idea that I would like to bring in as an npc, but I need some help for how to do it.

The idea is an elderly woman who lives in a community, and everyone in the area knows there is something strange about her because even the oldest living members of the community remember her exactly the way she is back when they were children. But, she is loved by the community because she is always actively helping them, whether through dispensing sage advice, or giving a person shelter when they need it, or whatever.

What they don't know is she is a very high level (preferrably) Druid, ideally between 20 and 25.

What I'm wanting, is a way to have a being be basically immortal when it comes to time, preferrably without use of TO level shenanigans, and without using Elan as a race

[LTwerewolf]

Here you go. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0)

Wedded to history is my personal favorite.

[Cerefel]

Some options are a necropolitan with a hat of disguise to look alive, or the epic feat that extends your lifespan. Ruathar would help a bit too, but it doesn't grant eternal life.

[Necroticplague]

She crafts contingencies of reincarnate, and ritually kills herself to come back in a new, young body. Being a master of many forms means she simply wild shapes to look like her last body. Only a one level dip for humanoid shape.

[Deophaun]

Silver Dragon with 20 levels of Druid?

(Un)fortunately, being really, really old is not all that hard to pull off in D&D, and savvy players may not give it as much weight as you imagine.

[Aleolus]

Hmmm. Swanmay may work, but what is the wild shape restriction it has? I'm afb at the moment

[Âmesang]

"There's one down here who was old when my grandmother was a girl. She's quite mad." — Queen Weilew, The 13th Warrior

Along with Wedded to History there's also the kissed by the ages spell from the same DRAGON article that'll stop a character's aging.

[Necroticplague]

Also, if Elan aren't a valid racial choice, how about a well-disguised Warforged (possibly through Humanoid Wild Shape to look different, as I brought up earlier)?

[Zanos]

I feel like living forever is kind of against the typical druid flavor, especially since their in class ability that makes them pseudo ageless expressly doesn't prevent their natural death.

I'd probably go Wizard instead, since it gets knowledge skills and int synergy to dispense a lot of fun facts, and generally makes more sense than an immortal druid, IMO.

In general if you say that someone is immortal with respect to aging players aren't going to care much since it doesn't make the character any more powerful mechanically, unless you've abused a very specific and very obscure elixir.

[ben-zayb]

Maybe she is already a ghost, with Ghostly Grasp feat if needed.

If she looks to be of elven descent, maybe she is a Killoren after all?

Aging Effects
Killoren age normally through the old age category, but they never reach the venerable age category and can live indefinitely should they choose to do so.

[sleepyphoenixx]

She's epic, so you don't have to invest any specific build resources.
Just have her use the epic spell Iolaum's Longevity (LEoF) on a goblin tribe or a barn full of chickens every 50 years or so, and that's pretty much all you need.

Or at least that's the explanation OOC if the players ask, because i doubt it's going to come up in game.

[The Grue]

One thing to be careful of if you're introducing an ageless epic-level NPC, is to make sure you have a darned good explanation for why this character hasn't already solved the big world-ending scheme or disposed of the BBEG or recovered the MacGuffin of Plot Significance, or otherwise rendered the plot obsolete. Remember that, for a primary caster of epic level, "I couldn't find the time" is a bold faced lie at best.

[Necroticplague]

One thing to be careful of if you're introducing an ageless epic-level NPC, is to make sure you have a darned good explanation for why this character hasn't already solved the big world-ending scheme or disposed of the BBEG or recovered the MacGuffin of Plot Significance, or otherwise rendered the plot obsolete. Remember that, for a primary caster of epic level, "I couldn't find the time" is a bold faced lie at best.

You assume that they're doing something of worldwide import like that. It's entirely possible the PCs are doing something well beneath her notice or care.

[LTwerewolf]

One thing to be careful of if you're introducing an ageless epic-level NPC, is to make sure you have a darned good explanation for why this character hasn't already solved the big world-ending scheme or disposed of the BBEG or recovered the MacGuffin of Plot Significance, or otherwise rendered the plot obsolete. Remember that, for a primary caster of epic level, "I couldn't find the time" is a bold faced lie at best.

Yeah this is pretty important. You'll find PCs aren't really impressed that they're age-old and whatnot, but you'll also find that they'll go to that person with the big important world ending problems because it doesn't make sense for that person to not help. Suddenly you don't have a campaign, you have the adventures of mary sue and the gang where you're more telling them a story of what happens than playing d&d.

[OldTrees1]

Aw. When I read the title I thought this was going to be about trying to optimize for the oldest character (trying to reach infinite) in the least amount of either apparent(fewest rounds of actions) or objective(staying within the 20th century) time.


Others have listed off many good ways, another way to not die of old age is to be non-living.

[Toilet Cobra]

I feel like living forever is kind of against the typical druid flavor, especially since their in class ability that makes them pseudo ageless expressly doesn't prevent their natural death.

I agree but I like the idea of a druid who wants to live selfishly past their allotted time, making her a bit of an ideological outcast. Or maybe she feels that her power will be needed in some future age and she wants to live to see it, but until that day comes she'll just hang out in a small village and watch over a little patch of nature.


In general if you say that someone is immortal with respect to aging players aren't going to care much since it doesn't make the character any more powerful mechanically, unless you've abused a very specific and very obscure elixir.

A few people have said this but I'm kind of surprised. I guess high-level players have no reason to be impressed, but I feel like anyone who doesn't have access to immortality would at least consider the minimum level of power necessary to get there (without it being a racial trait, anyway). Plus there's the implication that during her long life, she's probably dealt with plenty of stuff scarier than the PCs.

Maybe I only think that because so few players in my games reach the heights where immortal npc's are more commonly encountered.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I agree but I like the idea of a druid who wants to live selfishly past their allotted time, making her a bit of an ideological outcast. Or maybe she feels that her power will be needed in some future age and she wants to live to see it, but until that day comes she'll just hang out in a small village and watch over a little patch of nature.



A few people have said this but I'm kind of surprised. I guess high-level players have no reason to be impressed, but I feel like anyone who doesn't have access to immortality would at least consider the minimum level of power necessary to get there (without it being a racial trait, anyway). Plus there's the implication that during her long life, she's probably dealt with plenty of stuff scarier than the PCs.

Maybe I only think that because so few players in my games reach the heights where immortal npc's are more commonly encountered.

I really don't see much of a contradiction. A creature may die, but Nature itself is eternal (at least, if you ask a Druid), and an epic-level Druid is basically Nature Incarnate.

And while a player probably won't be very impressed by immortality (at higher levels, immortals are ten a penny), a low level character might well be.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I agree but I like the idea of a druid who wants to live selfishly past their allotted time, making her a bit of an ideological outcast. Or maybe she feels that her power will be needed in some future age and she wants to live to see it, but until that day comes she'll just hang out in a small village and watch over a little patch of nature.


That's hardly universal. There's plenty of different druidic faiths in the various fluff sources, and nothing says you can't make your own.
Hell, there's undead druids in FR that nobody blinks an eye at, which i'd consider a whole lot more "un-druidic" than just extending your natural lifespan.

As for why she's not solving every two-bit bandit problem and minor undead uprising, how are the current crop of heroes ever going to grow strong if they don't have any challenges?
Or maybe she's just tired of adventuring, has bigger duties akin to the Gatekeepers in Eberron or spends all her time cultivating rare plants in her backyard.
The possibilities are endless.

[Segev]

If she uses the reincarnation trick, she doesn't have to be epic level to pull it off. Heck, at level 11, she can not only use reincarnation, but she's got Thousand Faces and can alter self into her old lady form at will.

I think Craft Contingent Spell requires 12th level. So make her 12th level instead of epic. She's retired; she doesn't need to be gaining exp. Ancient wisdom can be useful even if the PCs surpass her in level.

[Toilet Cobra]

And while a player probably won't be very impressed by immortality (at higher levels, immortals are ten a penny), a low level character might well be.


The possibilities are endless.

That's what I'm sayin'.

[Rijan_Sai]

Maybe she is already a ghost, with Ghostly Grasp feat if needed.

I think this is a very ideal solution to the initial problem, and it solves several issues that people have brought up:

1) It is (or seems to me at least) very easy to disguise the fact that you are "living-impared."

2) Your "unfinished business," or whatever it is keeping you tied to the world, has to do with tending your grove. Living druids can be very...persnikity about it, unliving ones even more so! Helping the local community in the ways described are not outside of that realm; while "giving sage advice" or "shelter when they need it," she can be teaching those she helps in the ways of tending and protecting nature, while working with it for their needs.

3) ...I know I had something to go here, but I have forgotten...

It's possible that she might not even know that she's dead! (See The 6th Sense for details.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If she has access to a demiplane where time is stopped in regards to aging (and anything else you like), planting an acorn on the plane, followed by a plant growth spell and acorn of far travel, can get her immortality so long as she have such an acorn on her person. If the plane is timeless in regards to magic (even just transmutation), then the acorn's spell will never expire.

Think of her as a positive energy, non-undead nature lich with the acorn as her magic soul thingy. It's obviously her most prized possession.

[NichG]

I was actually expecting a discussion of an actual infinitely-old character (rather than just a character who is old compared to the usual members of their race). Infinities bring up certain issues and I was curious how they might be handled. Like, can you be actually infinitely old and still capable of change?

[Caedes]

You could also have her be an acolyte of sort of some god. And the god is keeping her alive for some task or which not.

Similar to Belgarath the Sorcerer in the David and Leigh Eddings books. This can actually give you some plot hooks as well. Can tie this person with events in the past where people actually don't remember her in the village.

For Example. a villager is sharing what he/she knows about her and goes. "Well I know her and my Dad knew her, but my grandfather swore she was never in the village. You know that was about the time of the great floods in Camdar. But my Grandfather's dad. Well according to my dad, he talked about her all the time."

This may be personal preference. But I do love that air of mystery that comes with deities in D&D/Pathfinder. I feel like it is under utilized. But that is just my take.

[Bohandas]

Since she's definitely over level 15 of the druid class (and thus has the Timeless Body ability), spending time on the astral plane or other places wih the timeless trait would (depending on how one wants to rule it) allow her to suspend he aging process without it catching up with her when she left.

Whether it would be appropriate for a druid to spend most of their time on he astral plane though is debatable though (unless they're a Planar Shepherd).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since she's definitely over level 15 of the druid class (and thus has the Timeless Body ability), spending time on the astral plane or other places wih the timeless trait would (depending on how one wants to rule it) allow her to suspend he aging process without it catching up with her when she left.

Whether it would be appropriate for a druid to spend most of their time on he astral plane though is debatable though (unless they're a Planar Shepherd).Again, acorn of far travel. It's even a low level druid spell. She technically only needs to be 3rd level for this, though she'd somehow need access to a timeless-with-respect-to-aging plane.

[Zanos]

A few people have said this but I'm kind of surprised. I guess high-level players have no reason to be impressed, but I feel like anyone who doesn't have access to immortality would at least consider the minimum level of power necessary to get there (without it being a racial trait, anyway). Plus there's the implication that during her long life, she's probably dealt with plenty of stuff scarier than the PCs.

Maybe I only think that because so few players in my games reach the heights where immortal npc's are more commonly encountered.
Not exactly what I meant.I'm saying that the players, out of character, probably aren't going to browbeat a mechanical excuse out of the DM for why their NPC has lived a long time. It's not like they're going to leverage their age in combat. Directly, anyway.

In and out of character, you should be reluctant to draw the ire of ancient beings, depending on the setting. Knowledge is power, and people who are millennia old usually have a fair bit.

[Aleolus]

I think this is a very ideal solution to the initial problem, and it solves several issues that people have brought up:

1) It is (or seems to me at least) very easy to disguise the fact that you are "living-impared."

2) Your "unfinished business," or whatever it is keeping you tied to the world, has to do with tending your grove. Living druids can be very...persnikity about it, unliving ones even more so! Helping the local community in the ways described are not outside of that realm; while "giving sage advice" or "shelter when they need it," she can be teaching those she helps in the ways of tending and protecting nature, while working with it for their needs.

3) ...I know I had something to go here, but I have forgotten...

It's possible that she might not even know that she's dead! (See The 6th Sense for details.)

Hmmm. I hadn't considered this possibility...
Though to be honest, I was shying away from the undead side of things. The main reason I was seeing her as a druid is a visual I had form in my head of the community coming under attack, the PCs come across her calmly walking down a road as a group of the enemies charge her, only to have her old image fade away as she beats the crap out of them with her staff. She then travels the community with the group helping to deal with them, culminating in her WSing into a hugh Fire Elemental during. the battle against the leader (her fighting the leader, the PCs dealing with his minions).

As for why she doesn't step in in major events, simple. She has taken an oath that she will protect and guide the community she is living in, and stepping beyond that may only be done under the most extreme and dire of circumstances

[The Glyphstone]

You might want to reconsider the image, or at least reverse it, because it's exactly why a lot of people warn new DMs away from super-powerful NPCs. You've got the good NPC battling the evil NPC, while the PCs, who are supposed to be the heroes, get relegated to mop-up duty killing minions. It's not heroic, and isn't fun for most players.

Better options:
-She doesn't or can't fight directly, but will give the PCs aid via advice and maybe buff spells.
-She sacrifices herself somehow to weaken the big bad guy to where the PCs can finish him off as a level-appropriate boss encounter.
-She is the one who holds off the swarms of minions, while the PCs battle the BBEG.

[Aleolus]

I'm aware of that. Things almost never go according to the mental images I form, I usually just use them as a baseline and build whatever from there, then let things go however they end up going

[Rijan_Sai]

Hmmm. I hadn't considered this possibility...
Though to be honest, I was shying away from the undead side of things...

As for why she doesn't step in in major events, simple. She has taken an oath that she will protect and guide the community she is living in, and stepping beyond that may only be done under the most extreme and dire of circumstances

Fair enough!
Another idea, in the thread mention by LTwerewolf here:

Here you go. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0)

Wedded to history is my personal favorite.
Wedded to History and the Kissed by the Ages spell have been mentioned, but there is also

3. The Gray Portrait (CoR)
Ok, you probably won't be able to get your hands on this one (it's a major artifact) but it's good if you can manage it. All you have to do to activate it is own it for one uninterupted week. After that, you never age and are immune to negative levels and ability drain. Keep it well guarded, though, because you instantly suffer all the effects its been blocking if it is destroyed.
Not "immortal," but agless with some defenses, and a pretty glaring weakness if it's found out!

[Bohandas]

Polymorph Any Object could change a person back into a young adult or younger; their age wpuld revert if it were ever dispelled though.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Polymorph Any Object could change a person back into a young adult or younger; their age wpuld revert if it were ever dispelled though.At the risk of being dispelled (unless it's a device) a psychoactive skin of proteus can continually rejuvenate you, since you can use metamorphosis at will, and it lasts until you drop it.

[atemu1234]

Honestly, it kind of depends how you want this character should function. Wedded to History is probably the best option.

[Ruethgar]

In the same Dragon as Wedded to History is the Endless quality. Similar to the DMGII NPC qualities, it is not a template and this particular one has no LA adjustment. Just flat out no death from age.

[Gabrosin]

It's possible that she might not even know that she's dead! (See The 6th Sense for details.)

Jeez, spoiler alert! :smallsmile:

[Rijan_Sai]

Jeez, spoiler alert! :smallsmile:

What? It's only the most famous line in the movie!

I see dead people...* they don't even know that they're dead.

Also, I'm not sure something ~17 years old really counts as a spoiler anymore... (and if it is, it's your own dang fault for not seeing it! :smalltongue:)

*Shortened primarily because I don't remember the whole quote...

[Bohandas]

I know this insight is coming a bit late, but the "Binding" spell can halt the aging process

[digiman619]

If you're looking for mechanics that let you live forever,the alchemist, monk, sorcerer, and wizard (in Pathfinder, at least) all have capstones that let them be immortal. But you're forgetting; you're the DM. You can just say she drank from a now-destroyed Fountain of Youth, or that she's the avatar of a god, Or she's secretly an ancient robot. Whatever you say, make sure that it isn't a viable choice for your players and you'll be fine.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The dragon ascendant PrC gains godhood as a class feature, which includes immortality. Either take 15 levels or steal one's godhood. Warforged, necropolitans, elan, and many playable outsiders are also immortal.

[Arutema]

You might want to reconsider the image, or at least reverse it, because it's exactly why a lot of people warn new DMs away from super-powerful NPCs. You've got the good NPC battling the evil NPC, while the PCs, who are supposed to be the heroes, get relegated to mop-up duty killing minions. It's not heroic, and isn't fun for most players.

Better options:
-She doesn't or can't fight directly, but will give the PCs aid via advice and maybe buff spells.
-She sacrifices herself somehow to weaken the big bad guy to where the PCs can finish him off as a level-appropriate boss encounter.
-She is the one who holds off the swarms of minions, while the PCs battle the BBEG.

Agreed that you don't want to have uber-NPCS fighting each other while the PCs do grunt work.

Another option is that she sacrifices herself to empower the PCs, granting them a template/mythic ranks that make them strong enough to take on the boss.