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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Incorporeality, Strength, Grappling



Laurellien
2016-02-09, 12:22 PM
While I was flicking through the Draconomicon, I came across the Ghostly Green Dragon on page 161. I noticed a couple of things:


It has a strength score.
It has a grapple modifier.
It has an incorporeal touch attack that appears to be modified by its Dexterity, but not its Strength (or, for some reason, its size).
It has regular mêlée attacks, usable against ethereal/incorporeal foes only, that are modified by its Strength.
It has two AC values, one with natural armour that works against incorporeal/ethereal foes, and one with deflection against material foes.
It has the Incorporeal subtype.


The SRD says that incorporeal creatures don't have Strength scores, and this is the only example I have found that goes against that.

Is there something about ghosts and their ties to the Ethereal Plane that make them different to other Incorporeal creatures?
What would happen if this dragon tried to grapple a wraith or other incorporeal beasty?
Are the incorporeality rules poorly written in general?
If you were to decide to give incorporeal creatures Strength scores for the purposes of interaction with each other, how would you determine them?

What do you think?

Flickerdart
2016-02-09, 12:28 PM
A ghost is incorporeal on the Material Plane only. It remains very much corporeal on the Ethereal Plane.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-02-09, 12:41 PM
Ghosts are weird in that they are ethereal and only become incorporeal when manifesting on the Material Plane. On the ethereal, they work like normal creatures, albeit non-rotting undead ones, and they do not have all the incorporeal goodies they get when they manifest, nor do they forgo their original Str scores while ethereal and corporeal.

If you'll notice, the ghost template does not shunt the base creature's Str score to -- like it does with its Con score. However, it can only use said score while corporeal.