Enslaved PC Buying Their Freedom

[gogogome]

A PC has been enslaved, and we are going to make him do profession/craft/perform. skill checks until he/she can buy his/her freedom.

I got the income per day covered, but what I don't have covered is freedom cost. I need:

1. Initial slave price
2. Interest Rate
3. daily expense cost (room+bed rent cost, food costs, etc.)
4. Percentage of daily income that goes to the slave owner
5. Freeing price.

I don't want to make arbitrary amounts for these. I want some kind of reason for the numbers I pick (i.e. a book somewhere specifically says slaves cost ___ much, or in real life in history the rates were ___)

[ComaVision]

Do you want it to actually be possible to pay off? It seems like the thing to do would be to jack up the interest % until it's actually impossible and you keep the slave indefinitely.

[gogogome]

Do you want it to actually be possible to pay off? It seems like the thing to do would be to jack up the interest % until it's actually impossible and you keep the slave indefinitely.

Yes I want it to actually be possible to pay off. If realistic or values mentioned in books make it impossible to pay off then I will adjust it OR give the PCs a way to escape.

[ComaVision]

1. Initial slave price
2. Interest Rate
3. daily expense cost (room+bed rent cost, food costs, etc.)
4. Percentage of daily income that goes to the slave owner
5. Freeing price.

1. Basic formula: (CR x CR) X 100 gp. (CRs less than 1 are round up to 1). Price may be multiplied by up to x4 for exceptional skill. Google tells me this is from Lords of Madness, about Neogi but seems like a pretty good basis.
2. As I implied, this should be high.
3. Daily expenses are negligible, especially if the slave isn't treated nicely.
4. 100%. The slave is literally the owner's property, thus anything the slave makes belongs to the owner.
5. Probably similar to #1, 1.5x more maybe so the owner can replace the slave and make a profit too. I could see a scenario where it's possible for a slave to work off their "debt" in 10+ years but any slight against the owner results in penalties so the term of work gets extended months/years.

In short, the owner would probably make it pretty much impossible for his property to leave. You are probably better off adding an escape scenario or some other extraordinary event to free the character. Either that or make the slave owner exceptionally kind (which begs the question of why he was a slave owner at all).

[sleepyphoenixx]

The price of a slave depends on a whole lot of factors. Race, age, gender, skills and health are probably the big ones.

A middle-aged commoner 1 is something you can pick up by the dozen for a steal. A skilled craftsmen or scholar, a spellcaster, someone from a rare race or with a exceptionally high (16+) attributes could be worth anywhere between that and their weight in gold - or, depending on the owner, actually priceless.

There's also the fact to consider that a slave is a possession, not a person. They usually can't buy themselves free because anything they earn belongs to their owner by default. What you're talking about sounds more like indentured servitude.

In any case, the price should be determined by the needs of your story. Do you have actual events planned during that slavery or is it just going to be "you make X check for Y weeks"?
Personally i'd go with the escape option, because that actually adds drama. Making skill checks to earn money while nothing of importance happens doesn't make for a very engaging story.

[the_david]

Does this help? (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant) Apparently, it should be 3 years on average. The Bible gives us a 7 year limit in Leviticus, I think. Ofcourse, it all depends on the circumstances. More debt would result in a longer period of enslavement, or it could be a punishment for a crime. It also depend on the customs and laws of the country you live in.

[Troacctid]

It's usually more narratively satisfying to offer the player freedom via a quest. For example, they might discover the Lost Treasure of Captain Peucebeard, which happens to be worth exactly enough to buy their freedom if they can retrieve it from the dungeon where it's hidden.

[the_david]

How exactly has he been enslaved? Is this at the beginning of the campaign, or in the middle? Is the owner one of the other PCs or an NPC?

[Apricot]

Does the slaveowner want their property to be freed? If no, then realistically the PC is going to have to escape somehow. If they do, then it's better to just make the entire thing based on a time term in the first place. Check out indentured servitude contracts: four years with an additional 20 pounds given to the servant each year was considered an acceptable term of service as an exchange for getting the slave across the Atlantic.

[Chester]

Give the PC a way to escape. It's more rewarding and opens the possibility of coming back for revenge.

[Bohandas]

What are they enslaved by? Humans? Drow? Baatezu? Neogi? I'd imagine realistically it would be influenced by these and other specifics.

If enslaved by baatezu the prics should definitely creep up to remain perpetually out of reach and the initial price should be chosen to start tantalizingly just out of reach, and if enslaved by drow it should vary unpredictably. Neogi and roman-esque humans should have prices that are stable and on the up-and-up though.

Also, if enslaved by a chaotic evil group it should be relatively easy for anyone who escapes to stay escaped and not be recaptured.


Does the slaveowner want their property to be freed? If no, then realistically the PC is going to have to escape somehow.

This, again, depends on the society. The neogi, for example, canonically have a society that traditionally allows slaves to own property, including other slaves - often wih several iterations of slaves of slaves of other slaves - so if their master doesn't want to free them for any price they may still be able to save enough money to buy their own master from their master's master (which under neogi law results in both being freed If I remember that chapter of Lprds of Madness correctly

[Peat]

4. 100%. The slave is literally the owner's property, thus anything the slave makes belongs to the owner.


Depends on culture. Roman slaves could earn their own money, which they'd use to buy their freedom.

[gogogome]

There are two slaves, both player characters. They died to a bunch of ogres, and the other 2 party members ditched them to save themselves. Both of them were bleeding out (-5 and -7hp), and I gave the players a choice, do you want to roll new characters or be sold into slavery, and both chose slavery so the orcs stabilized them with the intent of selling them. This is where the session ended.

The 2 players that got away are ok with doing some down-time (1-2 years) while the other 2 escape slavery.

At this point I want to do 2 things.
1. Find out how long it'll take them to buy themselves free. If it's too long I'll make some adjustments or figure out a way for them to escape. I want this slavery thing to be an ordeal as penalty for dying, not something easily overcome so the PCs can die with reckless abandon.
2. Make a small quest for the 2 now free PCs to find and re-recruit the 2 PCs that got away.

I have looked at debt-bondage and indentured servants, but I have yet to find any numbers. It would be nice if I could find a few cases with cost of servant, interest rate, cost of freedom, and how much servant was paid.

Thanks for the slave cost formula. 1 problem down!

[tomandtish]

Depends on culture. Roman slaves could earn their own money, which they'd use to buy their freedom.

As noted by Peat, both Roman (http://spartacus-educational.com/ROMslaves.htm) and Greek (https://cliojournal.wikispaces.com/The+Treatment+of+Athenian+Slaves) society had a way for slaves to purchase freedom, but it was not cheap and not quick.

If you want them to earn their freedom rather than escaping, it is going to be quicker if they do something so outstanding that freedom itself is given as a reward of gratitude.

[gogogome]

As noted by Peat, both Roman (http://spartacus-educational.com/ROMslaves.htm) and Greek (https://cliojournal.wikispaces.com/The+Treatment+of+Athenian+Slaves) society had a way for slaves to purchase freedom, but it was not cheap and not quick.

If you want them to earn their freedom rather than escaping, it is going to be quicker if they do something so outstanding that freedom itself is given as a reward of gratitude.

Thank you, you've been very helpful. In history, no one is ever freed until they are an old man. I guess I will have to setup an escape scenario.

[tomandtish]

You are welcome. And don't be worried about history. Nothing says you can't challenge it. That's what time travel is for.... :smallbiggrin:


A little more digging shows that a really successful gladiator might be able to do it quicker, either through money or earning their freedom through the will of the crowd.

[Bucky]

You could also have them promised their freedom in exchange for some deed that's so dangerous that it's normally illegal to require slaves to do it, if they're sold somewhere with some level of slave-protection laws.

[Peat]

Thank you, you've been very helpful. In history, no one is ever freed until they are an old man. I guess I will have to setup an escape scenario.

Not always the case actually; the Romans set a law where no slave could be freed until they were 30 because of how many slaves were freed early in life.

Is it possible that in a society that's relatively kindly to their slaves, two PCs could potentially earn their freedom in 1-2 years? It would be a bit exceptional, but that's what PCs do.

Would an adventure in which the two PCs who escaped break out the two PCs who are enslaved, or the party has to go risk horrendous danger to earn the two slaves' freedom, be cooler than buying their way out? That can only be answered by your players, but if I was one of your players, I'd be saying yes.

Particularly if your players like dodging bounty hunters after escaping.

I mean, really, the possibilities are endless here. Give them an escape route through the Palace on the night a bloody coup is staged! Have a mysterious stranger help bust out their mates in return for the totally not demonically possessed artefact in the slaveowner's house! Let them break into the zoo and charm the animals into helping them storm the city gates on the way out!

Etc.etc.

[LudicSavant]

Yes I want it to actually be possible to pay off. If realistic or values mentioned in books make it impossible to pay off then I will adjust it OR give the PCs a way to escape.

There is no single "realistic" price. Slavery varies wildly across historical cultures, from the chattel slavery of colonial America where people were considered subhuman and would be stuffed into holds like sardines and merchants would accept large swathes of them dying on the voyage from overcrowding just because it was still more profitable, to the sort of slavery where a slave might marry, own property, himself own a slave, swear an oath, be a competent legal witness, be the heir of their master, and stuff like lashing was illegal.

[TheYell]

There is no single "realistic" price. Slavery varies wildly across historical cultures, from the chattel slavery of colonial America where people were considered subhuman and would be stuffed into holds like sardines and merchants would accept large swathes of them dying on the voyage from overcrowding just because it was still more profitable, to the sort of slavery where a slave might marry, own property, himself own a slave, swear an oath, be a competent legal witness, be the heir of their master, and stuff like lashing was illegal.

Very true.

Its a subjective measure. Slave societies tend not to welcome too many freed slaves. In a dense urban setting that is more strongly enforced than on a sparsely settled frontier. Bear in mind that some societies have bondsmen which is closer to the religious model of the ancient Semites -- you're going through life together, only some of you are not the boss and never will be. Serfdom was seen even into the 19th century as a means of protection and status, with a great and wealthy lord ready to defend all his property from abuse or neglect. You might be just a serf, but if you felt like cutting down a neighboring lord's forest you might get nothing but thanks from your patron and then who would stop you? Paying money to escape that protection was insulting as well as dangerous for much of the medieval period, up until the lords decided they needed cash rent more than loyal serfs. That's just loose rules of thumb, but of course a strong autocrat has legislation concerning the freedom and maintenance of slaves, and in such places the laws of slavery are harsh rules -- for the masters.

So assuming that there is a free status to buy into, you have to consider that the master wants to compensated for having to hire another slave, wants to be seen as a wise and savvy slaveowner, and yet generous enough to free a slave instead of selling him away when he doesnt want to serve. Even the Romans who enjoyed gladiator combat thought there was such a thing as a stupidly cruel slaveowner.

One thing -interest is a rare and pretty much modern thing, and it applied first to cash not to the value of goods. It would be much more common to see a measure of land, or a weight of grain, or a straight percentage of goods, levied as part of a price. I don't think it realistic to say "starting price of a slave plus compound interest". It is probably closer to the cost of a replacement slave.

[Yahzi]

I want some kind of reason for the numbers I pick (i.e. a book somewhere specifically says slaves cost ___ much, or in real life in history the rates were ___)
There is no real-life equivalent. Slaves, in some places and times, occasionally did buy their freedom; but this was always, always, always because their owners let them. (Kinda inherent in the "slave" thing, you know?)

So the only realistic roll is a Diplomacy roll. Interest rates, costs, all of that is whatever the guy with the whip says it is.

[TheYell]

If you want a sourcebook there is a scholarly work called Slave Rebellion in Brazil. It gives the general prices of slaves in 1815 Bahia and mentions how the PORTUGUESE let slaves run market stalls and keep some of the earnings. Note they tightened things up after an 1815 rebellion.

As a game mechanic you could have a monthly Diplomacy roll between slave and master to calculate the average attachment between master and slave. Then you figure the slave may keep an eighth or a tenth of their daily income. Upkeep is paid by the master. No interest but maybe a monthly Will save against spending half their savings on food and drink for their slave friends. (If your slave is fixedly frugal he will be immensely unpopular and you might as well give him some extra income for loansharking at six for five).
When the slave has the replacement cost of a slave he has to do a Diplomacy roll, and beat the average monthly attachment rating in order to buy out. Something like that is loosely historical and shows the difficulty in becoming a freed slave.

[DarkSoul]

I'm a bit disappointed that "let the two that ran away redeem themselves by coming back for their companions, thus creating an interesting jailbreak scenario" hasn't come up more than once.

The PCs are enslaved by savage humanoids, orcs or ogres. They're not going to let them buy their way free; they're likely going to be consigned to a miserable (and short) existence being beaten mercilessly whether they did something wrong or not. Maybe if they're lucky ogres will just get tired of them being so weak by comparison and eat them.