Incarnate skillmonkey

[you randomly]

Im am currently trying to build an incarante skillmonkey as a backup char for a 3.5 campaign i am currently part of, i was thinking of going incarnate 8/binder 2/chameleon 10 (no spesific order)
Im struggleing abit with feats that would work best fora skill monkey but also mean i wouldnt fall far behind in combat
Another thing i was thinking was which skills should i put points in and should i max all thoses skill i was thinking i could get away with about 3/4 max ranks (at lvl5 6 skill points in each selected skill, lvl9 8 skill point in each selected skill)
The gm has house ruled that all skills cost 1 point and can all have the same number of ranks
The able learner feat has been change to have a chance of giving you a skill rank up to max when us a skill due to the above house rule
Im also going to ask the gm how jack of all trades will work as there are no half ranks

Any help would be much appreciated

[Zaq]

One of my favorite characters ever was indeed a Binder/Incarnate/Chameleon. It was quite a few years ago, so I don't know if I still have his character sheet with his exact level layout.

The number one piece of advice I can give you is to make a TON of cheat sheets for yourself. Not only do you want to be able to know what your vestiges and soulmelds and focuses do at a glance, but you also want to be able to be able to pick a setup at the start of the day without bogging down the game for hours. I recommend making a few premade combinations of vestiges/melds/focuses that work well for specific purposes. My character's deal was that he would always pretend to be a totally different class every day (and he had high enough Bluff to pull it off, too), so my setups were for emulating specific classes or specific styles of character (I had my "Ranger" setup and my "Wizard" setup and my "Rogue" setup and whatever); you can go that route if that's what you want the character to be like, or you can approach it from a different mindset; whatever works for you, but whatever you call these packages, I highly recommend that you make a handful of packages to pick from quickly. (That's not to say that you can NEVER pick everything individually if you have a very specific set of challenges in mind for that day, but that should be the exception rather than the rule, just because you don't want to bog down the game.)

I don't have good advice about stat distribution, because that was definitely my character's weakness. I think I ended up giving him straight 14s across the board (or something damn close to it), since he needed basically everything (he sometimes emulated melee classes, so he needed STR; he sometimes emulated ranged classes, so he needed DEX; everyone needs CON, and that goes double for meldshapers; skills were his lifeblood, and he sometimes used the Arcane Focus from Chameleon, so he needed INT; the Divine Focus from Chameleon uses WIS; and of course, not only do Binders need CHA, but he really needed good Bluff and Disguise to accomplish what he wanted to do, so he needed CHA). If you're going for being a weird general skillmonkey instead of being someone who pretends to be specific different classes, then you can probably focus your stats better than I did (if nothing else, you might be able to drop a bit out of STR or DEX if you're not planning on being both melee and ranged on alternate days), but that's definitely something you have to be aware of.

Soulmelds can make up a hell of a lot of ground as far as your skills go, so yeah, you don't need to max every skill you care about. If there are some skills that are more fundamental to your design (Bluff and Disguise in the case of my character, for example), then by all means max away, but yeah, you can really just let your melds do most of the heavy lifting as far as your skill numbers are concerned. Do be aware that not every skill has a corresponding meld, so if you care about any of those skills, you'll have to buy them the old-fashioned way, but you knew that already.

As far as feats go, I mostly just focused on stuff that made me better at binding and better at meldshaping; since I changed my focus every day, I didn't want too many feats that couldn't be put to use for any given setup. If you're not doing what I did, you have a little more flexibility, but even if that's the case, you still can't really go wrong with standby feats like Improved Binding, Bonus Essentia, Shape Soulmeld (to poach from other lists or just to get an extra meld above what your class levels offer), or Open X Chakra. I had to use Able Learner and City Slicker to get the skills I needed to enter Chameleon, so that was about it for my feats, but that should still get you pretty far. Your strength is your flexibility, so the fewer feats you pick that tie you to a specific setup, the better.

Overall, what do you want out of the character? What goals are you expecting to work towards? What sorts of things do you expect to accomplish on a day-by-day and round-by-round basis? That's really what it boils down to.

[Pluto!]

Incarnate-heavy builds are almost always immensely frustrating for me unless I start with a 1-2 level dip in a class that does something - whether it's a skillmonkey class to alleviate the burden on Essentia and soulmelds, a combat class to give Incarnate something to do with its numeric increases or a hybrid like Ranger (or even Warblade/Barbarian) to raise the caps on a few skills and get some early feats/proficiencies to work with.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think I'd definitely go Incarnate 9/Binder 1, rather than take the second Binder level. Incarnate 9 gets you more binds, while Binder 2 only gets you the tiny Pact Augmentation bonus. If the extra binds aren't so important, a one or two level Totemist dip is a great choice-- one level gives you the list, which has non-overlapping melds, while two levels gives the offensively-focused Totem bind.

If you do dip Totemist, Manticore Belt is a good offensive option, as it's a full-BAB attack that requires little to no outside investment and scales mostly with essentia investment. If you don't, try to get a familiar and use Share Soulmelds. It'll let you double up on a lot of skillmonkey stuff, and more importantly it'll give you two shots of Dissolving Spittle a round. Again, little investment, high reward.

[Zaq]

Incarnate-heavy builds are almost always immensely frustrating for me unless I start with a 1-2 level dip in a class that does something - whether it's a skillmonkey class to alleviate the burden on Essentia and soulmelds, a combat class to give Incarnate something to do with its numeric increases or a hybrid like Ranger (or even Warblade/Barbarian) to raise the caps on a few skills and get some early feats/proficiencies to work with.

No argument on the skill caps, but low-level Incarnates are more than combat capable by means of the Lightning Gauntlets and/or Dissolving Spittle. 2d6 as an at-will touch attack (3d6 with Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, which you were going to take anyway, or with enough levels in Incarnate to get the increased cap—4d6 with both of those things) is more than enough to get you through the early levels. Doesn't stay useful forever, but you were talking about the early game, no?

[Pluto!]

Kind of. They're in a weird spot because they're great at level 1, but at level 5+ with a non-Evil Incarnate, I always wish that first level were spent elsewhere.

I guess it depends on the level window you're playing at, but for games going past fourth level or so, I'm all about that early-dip life.

[you randomly]

thanks for all the replies
I think I'd definitely go Incarnate 9/Binder 1, rather than take the second Binder level. Incarnate 9 gets you more binds, while Binder 2 only gets you the tiny Pact Augmentation bonus. If the extra binds aren't so important, a one or two level Totemist dip is a great choice-- one level gives you the list, which has non-overlapping melds, while two levels gives the offensively-focused Totem bind.

If you do dip Totemist, Manticore Belt is a good offensive option, as it's a full-BAB attack that requires little to no outside investment and scales mostly with essentia investment. If you don't, try to get a familiar and use Share Soulmelds. It'll let you double up on a lot of skillmonkey stuff, and more importantly it'll give you two shots of Dissolving Spittle a round. Again, little investment, high reward.
I migh go for the 1 lvl dip in to totemist but i swear the rules say you keep everything seperate for dual meldshapers (essentia, chakra, binds) which seems like abit of hassle but the dip would give me alot of great binds and the ability to ramp some skills up to rediculus numbers

Overall, what do you want out of the character? What goals are you expecting to work towards? What sorts of things do you expect to accomplish on a day-by-day and round-by-round basis? That's really what it boils down to.
i think i would definitely want to play something similar to what you described in trying to be a jack of all trades every day play almost a different class depending on the current situation seems like it would be loads of fun

[Chronos]

Why so many incarnate levels? What are you getting from Incarnate 8 that you're not getting from 1, and can you get it more easily with eight levels of other classes?

[Psyren]

If you're looking to boost your skill points, I suggest Uncanny Trickster - it grants you a whopping 8+Int skill points and hugely expands your list for 3 levels, and 2 of those 3 levels also advance all your other class features - meldshaper level, essentia, chakras, chakra binds etc.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Why so many incarnate levels? What are you getting from Incarnate 8 that you're not getting from 1, and can you get it more easily with eight levels of other classes?
The Essentia to use your melds? (At least more than one at a time). Binds to use them efficiently? Incarnum splashes easily, to be sure, but if you want it for more than the base meld effect you have to invest either levels or lots of feats.

[torrasque666]

thanks for all the replies
I migh go for the 1 lvl dip in to totemist but i swear the rules say you keep everything seperate for dual meldshapers (essentia, chakra, binds) which seems like abit of hassle but the dip would give me alot of great binds and the ability to ramp some skills up to rediculus numbers Essentia is pooled together, but you are right about binds. I think. I'm not sure if an Incarnate 2/Totemist 1 can bind a totemist meld to their Crown or not.

[Psyren]

Essentia is pooled together, but you are right about binds. I think. I'm not sure if an Incarnate 2/Totemist 1 can bind a totemist meld to their Crown or not.

You get Crown at Incarnate 2, yes

[Zaq]

You get Crown at Incarnate 2, yes

You can bind an Incarnate meld, but not a Totemist meld. MoI pg. 20.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You get Crown at Incarnate 2, yes
Incorrect. As per "Multiclass Meldshapers" on page 20,

You only ever have a single essentia pool, containing all essentia from all sources.
Class abilities that improve soulmeld capacity only apply to that class' soulmelds.
Chakra binds only work with that class' soulmelds-- the example is that an Incarnate with the Crown bind can't bind a Totemist meld to his Crown if the only Totemist bind he's unlocked is totem.
Essentia capacity is based on overall character level.
The Constitution-based limit applies separately to each class, so a Totemist/Incarnate with a +3 modifier could shape three Totemist melds and three Incarnate melds.


EDIT: Totemist-with-stealth-melds'd

[Psyren]

I was just answering "when do I get the Crown chakra"; I didn't realize he was suggesting binding a Totemist meld to it. No need to dogpile :smalltongue: