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Eloel
2016-02-09, 11:50 PM
Hey guys,
I have been toying around with a ranged incarnate build, and while the bonuses are all nice and dandy, and the starting levels are quite strong, I'm stumped as to how a build would proceed to higher levels.

Strongheart Halfling or Azurin (or Jermlaine?)

Expanded Soulmeld Capacity + Extra Essentia to start with, for 3d6 spits at first level. The spit does not scale at all though, with increases pretty much every 3rd level, it becomes obsolete horribly fast. Using a bow is cool, I guess, but I'd be very feat-starved and without a source of precision damage, it feels like an ultimately futile attempt at staying relevant.

I have also considered moving towards a Totemist build, using Manticore Belt because Manticore Belt is pretty awesome and also comes online pretty fast (at level 2). Except.. there's nothing to improve the numbers for Totemist. All the number-increasing stuff we had with Incarnate (sighting gloves, bluesteel bracers)? They don't exist for totemists. I have read multiple places that these are natural weapons, though I have not found it in actual writing yet. If they ARE natural weapons, Heart of Fire (via Split Chakra) and Dread Carapace suddenly gain relevance, for some decent additional damage

So the question is: How do I stay relevant as an incarnum user?

Zaq
2016-02-10, 12:53 AM
What level range do you expect to play at?

There's nothing wrong with an Incarnate dipping 2 levels of Totemist to get access to the Manticore Belt (and a handful of other nifty melds) and then applying the Sighting Gloves and Bluesteel Bracers and whatever. (The opposite approach—a primary Totemist dipping Incarnate—also works.)

As to whether the Manticore Belt is a natural weapon, the best answer is the least satisfying: talk to your GM. The rules on it are incredibly vague. It's definitely not like any other natural weapon in the game, but it's also not really anything else? The excellent Totemist Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?287304-danzibr-s-Totemist-Handbook&highlight=totemist+handbook) by our very own danzibr (props as always from one handbook author to another, danzibr!) goes into it in some detail and doesn't really come up with anything conclusive, so you really just need to ask the opinion of the only person whose opinion matters in the end.

Beyond the obvious stuff (Bluesteel Bracers/Sighting Gloves, the Chaotic-specific bonuses, etc.), Incarnates don't get a crazy pile of tricks for archery. And unfortunately, a lot of the non-class-based things that boost archery (by which I basically mean feats) rely very heavily on BAB, which Incarnates don't get. So you basically need to identify exactly what benchmarks you want to hit and how many free levels you have to play around with. A lot depends on the level range you're at. At low levels, you have fewer levels to spare, but you don't really need much damage to stay relevant (and, as you mentioned, the Dissolving Spittle will do just fine). At high levels, it's just the opposite, but the devil is in the details as far as finding the exact balance.

Eloel
2016-02-10, 01:39 AM
Starting at level 1 in a couple days, the intention is for it to go to 17-18 eventually. So, the question to "what levels?" is a big "ALL", unfortunately. It's a party of Beguiler, Unarmed Swordsage, Warlock and Psy Warrior. So, while there are no T1-T2 classes in play here (yay, nerfbat), it's not low-power either. And there's already a lot of melee going on (everyone except the Warlock), I really don't want to step on everyone's toes with a Totemist with 10000 natural attack - hence the incarnum archer idea.

If there are any other ideas that don't step on other people, I'd be open to the ideas.

Troacctid
2016-02-10, 01:45 AM
Well, your party doesn't have a divine caster. Maybe you could start as an Incarnate, multiclass as a Cleric, and transition into Sapphire Hierarch.