What is the crit threat range and multiplier in this case?

[heavyfuel]

I asked this in the RAW Q&A Thread but didn't get a response:

If a Master Thrower 5 with the Deadeye Shot trick throws a Javelin at a character with the Snatch Arrow feat, the Javelin that is thrown back has what critical range and multiplier?

[Telonius]

x2 on a natural 20. The bonuses that apply to the javelin in the first attack are due to the character wielding it, not due to the javelin itself.

[Traitoreous]

The thrown back javelin uses normal crit range and multiplier, if the back thrower is not also a master thrower with the same trick for javelins. It works like disarming an enemy with weapon focus, you don't get your enemys bonuses if you use the same weapon.

[Bronk]

I asked this in the RAW Q&A Thread but didn't get a response:

If a Master Thrower 5 with the Deadeye Shot trick throws a Javelin at a character with the Snatch Arrow feat, the Javelin that is thrown back has what critical range and multiplier?

Don't feel bad! It looks like two people answered your question:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20390709&postcount=518

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20391790&postcount=520

[heavyfuel]

Don't feel bad! It looks like two people answered your question:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20390709&postcount=518

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20391790&postcount=520

The first doesn't really answer my question and I could swear Andezzar only had the first part of the answer when I looked.

Anyway, his answer seems to go against the other ones in this thread.


A master thrower throwing the javelin back, would get the increased multiplier. but not the increased threat range from the deepwood sniper. That bonus only applies to attacks with arrows made by the deepwood sniper.

[Telonius]

Andezzar was talking about a slightly different scenario.

For what we're talking about in this thread, you have a Master Thrower/Deepwood Sniper (let's call him Al) flinging a javelin at somebody who is not a Master Thrower (Bob), but who has Snatch Arrows. Since it's not a projectile weapon, Al doesn't get an increased threat range from Deepwood Sniper; nor does he get an increased critical multiplier from Deepwood Sniper. He does get +1 to his critical multiplier from Master Thrower's Deadeye Shot, since that explicitly works with thrown weapons. Al would get a critical multiplier of x3 on a natural 20 if the javelin hits. But it doesn't hit; Bob catches it. When Bob throws it back at him in the next round, the javelin wouldn't get any particular bonuses. It would just be treated as a regular thrown weapon.

A second situation - the one Andezzar was talking about - would be if Al throws a javelin at another Master Thrower (Carl) who has Snatch Arrows. Again, Al would get no bonus to threat range, but a +1 bonus to crit multiplier if the javelin hits. Carl catches it instead. When Carl throws it back the next round, the javelin would get a +1 bonus to crit multiplier if the javelin hits, because Carl also has Deadeye Shot.