Max languages/skill proficiencies at level 1 (core only)

[JeenLeen]

Using the PHB only, what build could have the most languages and skill proficiencies at level 1?

I'm currently looking at Half-Elf (3 languages, 2 proficiencies) Rogue (4 skill proficiencies, Thieves Cant is kinda a language), with the Acolyte background (2 proficiencies, 2 languages). Anyone have ideas for a build that is equivalent or about the same (like 1 less language, but 1 more skill proficiency).
Thieves' tool is the only tool proficiency I care about. It seems like others probably won't come up much.

I'm also considering some minor multiclassing (like into Ranger or Bard) to grab some extra proficiencies, but I'm worried that would make my character too ineffective.

Side Question: proficiency in a music instrument wouldn't give you anything if you already have Performance proficiency, correct (since 2 bonuses don't stack)?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Using the PHB only, what build could have the most languages and skill proficiencies at level 1?

I'm currently looking at Half-Elf (3 languages, 2 proficiencies) Rogue (4 skill proficiencies, Thieves Cant is kinda a language), with the Acolyte background (2 proficiencies, 2 languages). Anyone have ideas for a build that is equivalent or about the same (like 1 less language, but 1 more skill proficiency).
Thieves' tool is the only tool proficiency I care about. It seems like others probably won't come up much.

I'm also considering some minor multiclassing (like into Ranger or Bard) to grab some extra proficiencies, but I'm worried that would make my character too ineffective.

Side Question: proficiency in a music instrument wouldn't give you anything if you already have Performance proficiency, correct (since 2 bonuses don't stack)?

Variant Human with the Skilled feat gets two more skills (but one less language) at level one. Though it falls behind (by one skill) in the long run because you can't take the feat twice.

If you're really going to run with this, multiclassing to bard gives you more Expertise, which allows you to rise way above your peers when it comes to skill checks. A half-elf rogue/bard/ranger with Skilled will have proficiency in almost everything (plus half proficiency to initiative rolls and other non-skill ability checks), though it might struggle in combat.

Instrument proficiency depends on how your DM runs it. They might say you're not able to play the instrument at all without proficiency, or that some checks are more about Dexterity (Lute) than Charisma (Performance).

[Slipperychicken]

AFB, but a variant human with skilled gets you 4 proficiencies and a language. 3 proficiencies from skilled, 1 proficiency from human, 1 language from human.

Multiclassing does not get you the class' proficiencies. You still get proficiencies from any class features that give them, however.

And yeah, instrument proficiency is basically a fluff thing.

EDIT: It's been ages since I last got ninja'd here...

[JeenLeen]

I'll look into that human option. Anyone know what page of the PHB that's on?




Multiclassing does not get you the class' proficiencies. You still get proficiencies from any class features that give them, however.

.

The multiclassing section of the SRD said that you get limited proficiencies for some classes. For example, rogue, bard, and ranger give one skill proficiency. Fighter gives light and medium but not heavy armor. Rogue gives thieve tools. Etc.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'll look into that human option. Anyone know what page of the PHB that's on?

Page 31, in a sidebar.

[Theodoxus]

A level in Knowledge Cleric will grant you 2 Int skills (Arcane, History, Nature or Religion) with expertise in them as well. A second level in it will get you the Channel Ability that gives skill proficiency in anything you want for 10 minutes.

Rogue 1/Cleric (K) 1 is my favorite skill monkey build - especially if you're going PB (tank strength, get everything else in the 13-14 range before attribute bonuses) - or have mediocre rolls.

Of course, adding Bard or Ranger will add more skills, but start to really stretch you thin - lots of options, little depth...

[YCombinator]

Race: Variant Human (Common and +1 languages, +1 skill)
Variant Human feat: Linguist (+3 languages)
Background: Acolyte (Insight, Religion, +2 languages)
Class: Rouge (+4 skills from class list, expertise)

Final level 1 character has 7 skills and 7 languages and thieves cant or 10 skills and 4 languages if you use the skilled feat.

On a side note, if you're using Psionics from Unearthed Arcana, you can 2 skills from the Mystic. 2 more skills from the Awakened Order (one with expertise), and then Mind Vault which allows you to focus to again any one skill you want at any time. This, technically, one more skill than the Rouge which is 11 but in practice you effectively gain training in every skill so long as you're not focusing on another discipline.

[Talamare]

Rogue and Knowledge Clerics get 4 skills and 2 Expertise at level 1
Bard and Rangers get 3 skills, but Bards gain 2 Expertise at level 3. With Lore Bards getting an additional 3 skills
Warlocks at level 2 can get 2 specific skills as well.

If you want to be the ultimate skill monkey, you need At least 3 levels of Lore Bard, At least 1 level of Knowledge Cleric, At least 1 level of Rogue

If you want to dedicate yourself even further, Level 11 of Rogue makes it impossible for you to fail. (Natural 1 is not an auto fail for skill checks, only for attacks)

2 Levels of Knowledge Cleric isn't needed
There are 18 skills in the game
Rogue Level 1 +4 skills
MC into Bard gives you +1 skills
Knowledge Cleric +2 skills
Level 3 Bard +3 skills
Variant Human +4 skills
Background +2 skills
MC into Level 2 Warlock +2 skills

You are now proficient in every skill in the game, have Expertise for 6 of them.

[Biggstick]

A half elf knowledge cleric with the sage or acolyte background will have 7 known languages, 6 proficiencies, and 2 proficiencies with expertise. You could also go high elf, but you'd lose one of those proficiencies for a cantrip.

[JackPhoenix]

If you get outside core (UA, to be precise), Half-Elf Acolyte/Sage Mystic with Order of the Awakened can give you 2 (half-elf) + 2 (background) + 2 (Mystic) + 2 (Awakened Expertise) = 8 skills, one with Expertise, plus one proficiency in any skill, tool, weapon, armor or shield you can change with bonus action from the Mind Vault discipline.

PHB only, 7 skills/7 languages or 10/4 is the best you can do

[eastmabl]

Side Question: proficiency in a music instrument wouldn't give you anything if you already have Performance proficiency, correct (since 2 bonuses don't stack)?

I believe that the instrument proficiency would allow you to make a performance check which incorporates that particular instrument.

For example, Joe the Bard wants to sing and play his lute. Because he has proficiency with the lute, he can make the performance check as normal.

Compare that to Gronaur the Barbarian, who also wants to sing and play the lute. Because he lacks proficiency with the lute, he probably makes the performance check with disadvantage because he's winging it.

[RickAllison]

I believe that the instrument proficiency would allow you to make a performance check which incorporates that particular instrument.

For example, Joe the Bard wants to sing and play his lute. Because he has proficiency with the lute, he can make the performance check as normal.

Compare that to Gronaur the Barbarian, who also wants to sing and play the lute. Because he lacks proficiency with the lute, he probably makes the performance check with disadvantage because he's winging it.

Depending on what you were trying to do. Trying to play a difficult song for some picky nobles? Only having Performance is probably a disadvantage. Trying to play for a crowd at a tavern? Probably normal. Of course, in that case having the instrument proficiency probably gives you advantage, so it still is good!

[mgshamster]

with the Acolyte background (2 proficiencies, 2 languages).

Why pick the acolyte background specifically? All backgrounds give two skill proficiencies and two language (and/or tool) proficiencies.

[RickAllison]

Why pick the acolyte background specifically? All backgrounds give two skill proficiencies and two language (and/or tool) proficiencies.

I think it might be specifically for the double languages. Other backgrounds that give you two are Guild Merchant and Sage. With Bard, you can always cast Comprehend Languages instead and so it might be better to pick something that gives you more tool proficiencies: Sailor (navigator's, vehicles (water)), Charlatan (forgery, disguise (redundant if you grab Assassin as rogue which also gives you poisoner's)), and Folk Hero (artisan's vehicles (land)). Those proficiencies seem like they could come up a lot more than a language barrier easily overcome with a spell that let's you handle it with any language rather than two extra.

[Biggstick]

I think it might be specifically for the double languages. Other backgrounds that give you two are Guild Merchant and Sage. With Bard, you can always cast Comprehend Languages instead and so it might be better to pick something that gives you more tool proficiencies: Sailor (navigator's, vehicles (water)), Charlatan (forgery, disguise (redundant if you grab Assassin as rogue which also gives you poisoner's)), and Folk Hero (artisan's vehicles (land)). Those proficiencies seem like they could come up a lot more than a language barrier easily overcome with a spell that let's you handle it with any language rather than two extra.

Comprehend languages only allows you to understand the language, not to communicate in said language. Guild Merchant also only gives one language.

[RickAllison]

Comprehend languages only allows you to understand the language, not to communicate in said language. Guild Merchant also only gives one language.

"Rather than proficiency with artisan's tools, you might be proficient with navigator's tools or an additional language." PHB, page 133 under Variant Guild Artisan: Guild Merchant.

You're right about the Comprehend Languages. Still would rather have the extra tools, but that's my personal preference.

[JeenLeen]

I think it might be specifically for the double languages. Other backgrounds that give you two are Guild Merchant and Sage. With Bard, you can always cast Comprehend Languages instead and so it might be better to pick something that gives you more tool proficiencies: Sailor (navigator's, vehicles (water)), Charlatan (forgery, disguise (redundant if you grab Assassin as rogue which also gives you poisoner's)), and Folk Hero (artisan's vehicles (land)). Those proficiencies seem like they could come up a lot more than a language barrier easily overcome with a spell that let's you handle it with any language rather than two extra.

I'm new to 5th edition and building my first character, so the tool proficiencies may seem unimportant to me because of ignorance. Thieves' tools makes sense as important because they replace Disable Device and Pick Locks of the 3.5 era, at least in my mind. I see how forgery and disguise proficiency are similar, and I guess I just never care to employ those skills.

The others seem like stuff that wouldn't come up often, like how Profession and Craft checks often weren't that important in 3.5. Are the other tool proficiencies as relevant as skills?

[mgshamster]

I'm new to 5th edition and building my first character, so the tool proficiencies may seem unimportant to me because of ignorance. Thieves' tools makes sense as important because they replace Disable Device and Pick Locks of the 3.5 era, at least in my mind. I see how forgery and disguise proficiency are similar, and I guess I just never care to employ those skills.

The others seem like stuff that wouldn't come up often, like how Profession and Craft checks often weren't that important in 3.5. Are the other tool proficiencies as relevant as skills?

Artisan's tools and musical instruments can help you make money during downtime and provide you with a specific lifestyle during downtime. They also make for good roleplaying.

Disguise tools has direct in game benefits. As do forgery, herbalism (the new alchemy skill), thieves tools, navigators (want to know where you're going if your on a ship? You'll need these), Poisoner's kit is the alchemy skill for poisons, and vehicles is for driving wagons, casts, or boat. All these have direct mechanical benefits.

The only tool that doesn't seem to have a specific mechanic in the game is the gaming set. And I could be wrong on that.

[RickAllison]

Artisan's tools and musical instruments can help you make money during downtime and provide you with a specific lifestyle during downtime. They also make for good roleplaying.

Disguise tools has direct in game benefits. As do forgery, herbalism (the new alchemy skill), thieves tools, navigators (want to know where you're going if your on a ship? You'll need these), Poisoner's kit is the alchemy skill for poisons, and vehicles is for driving wagons, casts, or boat. All these have direct mechanical benefits.

The only tool that doesn't seem to have a specific mechanic in the game is the gaming set. And I could be wrong on that.

Gambling, conning arrogant BBEGs who believe they are absolutely superior, those sort of techniques. If D&D had magically binding contracts, a set for Three Dragon Ante would be my go-to solution to those sorts of enemies. Thief's tools are fantastic, but are redundant with starting as rogue (you should be able to switch it for another proficiency, however). Going Assassin or taking the Actor feat with some background like Charlatan means you could kill and impersonate kings. Either poisoner's kit or high Nature rolls are critical for extracting powerful poisons from enemies like wyverns. If you have a Chainlock in the party, you can reliably harvest an extremely potent venom from the pseudodragon, for instance. Artisan's tools are iffier, but they enable all sorts of shenanigans if you know something like carpentry or masonry. If your DM likes doing city stuff, a forgery kit lets you do things as varied as creating wanted posters, issuing official-looking permits for quick transactions, creating false orders to "exhange" shift schedules with a guardsman, and more possibilities. Herbalism is lackluster if your DM is very strict (only being able to create health potions at a slow rate and for the same price as normal), but a lenient DM will let you apply it to all sorts of things (including more powerful potions!).

[JellyPooga]

There are 18 skills in the game
Rogue Level 1 +4 skills
MC into Bard gives you +1 skills
Knowledge Cleric +2 skills
Level 3 Bard +3 skills
Variant Human +4 skills
Background +2 skills
MC into Level 2 Warlock +2 skills

You are now proficient in every skill in the game, have Expertise for 6 of them.

I'll counter with a build of my own;

Level 1: Half-Elf Acolyte Rogue [8 Skills, 2 w.Expertise, 5+1 Languages]
Level 2: Knowledge Cleric [+2 Skills, both w.Expertise]
Level 3-5: Lore Bard [+4 Skills, 2 w.Expertise]
Level 6: Ranger [+1 Skill, Natural Explorer, +1 or +2 Languages]

From here, you've a total of 15 Skill Proficiencies, 6 Expertise and (up to) 7 Languages (including Common) plus Thieves Cant. Natural Explorer counts as Expertise in any Int/Wis check relating to your Favoured Terrain.

Things to consider:
- Taking Bard to Level 10 gets you another 2 Expertise Skills
- Taking Rogue to Level 6 gets you another 2 Expertise Skills
- Taking Ranger to Level 6 and again at 14th gets you an additional 2 Languages
- Taking Ranger to Level 6 and again at 10th gets you an additional Favoured Terrain.
- Taking the Mastermind Rogue Archetype at Level 3 gets you 3 Tool proficiencies and another 2 Languages



My final recommended build, though? Half-Elf, Faction Agent (Emerald Enclave), Mastermind Rogue 11/Hunter Ranger 6/Lore Bard 3

You miss Cleric, but it's not doing a great deal for you anyway and the Skilled Feat can make up for the lack if you really want it.

MC restrictions mean you must have Dex, Wis and Cha at 13. Not a problem, given that we probably want good scores there anyway!

What does this give you, all told?
Skills
Racial: Athletics, Perception
- Common, Elven, One Language
Background: Insight, Nature
- Two Languages
Rogue: Acrobatics, Investigation, Sleight of Hand, Stealth
- Thieves Tools, Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, one Gaming Set
- Two Languges
Bard: Deception, Performance, Persuasion, Animal Handling
- One Musical Instrument
Ranger: Survival
- (up to) Four Languages
- Double Prof to Int/Wis relating to two Favoured Terrains

You have six Expertise choices. I'd recommend;
- Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Persuasion, Stealth and Thieves Tools

What Skills are we missing?
- Arcana, History, Intimidation, Medicine and Religion
With a decent Wisdom, we can happily ignore Medicine. We've also got a decent Charisma and Half-Orc Barbarians like being good at Intimidation, so we can leave that one too. We could take the Skilled Feat to grab Arcana, History and Religion, given that Intelligence is probably a dump stat, but we only have 4 ASI's in this build anyway, so I probably wouldn't bother.

What else of note does this build have?
- Sneak Attack (6d6), Evasion, Reliable Talent
- Fighting Style, Hunters Prey, Extra Attack
- JoaT, Cutting Words
- 6th Level Spellcasting (=3rd Level Spell Slots)
-- 4 Ranger Spells Known (Hunters Mark, Goodberry, Hail of Thorns, Pass Without Trace)
-- 2 Bard Cantrips (Vicious Mockery, Minor Illusion)
-- 6 Bard Spells Known (Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Speak with Animals, Thunderwave, Invisibility, Enhance Ability)

ASI's/Feats:
- Sharpshooter and Skulker would be my choices for Feats. I'd use the other two for ASI's in Dex.

[mgshamster]

I'll counter with a build of my own;

Level 1: Half-Elf Acolyte Rogue [8 Skills, 2 w.Expertise, 5+1 Languages]
Level 2: Knowledge Cleric [+2 Skills, both w.Expertise]
Level 3-5: Lore Bard [+4 Skills, 2 w.Expertise]
Level 6: Ranger [+1 Skill, Natural Explorer, +1 or +2 Languages]

From here, you've a total of 15 Skill Proficiencies, 6 Expertise and (up to) 7 Languages (including Common) plus Thieves Cant. Natural Explorer counts as Expertise in any Int/Wis check relating to your Favoured Terrain.

Things to consider:
- Taking Bard to Level 10 gets you another 2 Expertise Skills
- Taking Rogue to Level 6 gets you another 2 Expertise Skills
- Taking Ranger to Level 6 and again at 14th gets you an additional 2 Languages
- Taking Ranger to Level 6 and again at 10th gets you an additional Favoured Terrain.
- Taking the Mastermind Rogue Archetype at Level 3 gets you 3 Tool proficiencies and another 2 Languages



My final recommended build, though? Half-Elf, Faction Agent (Emerald Enclave), Mastermind Rogue 11/Hunter Ranger 6/Lore Bard 3

You miss Cleric, but it's not doing a great deal for you anyway and the Skilled Feat can make up for the lack if you really want it.

MC restrictions mean you must have Dex, Wis and Cha at 13. Not a problem, given that we probably want good scores there anyway!

What does this give you, all told?
Skills
Racial: Athletics, Perception
- Common, Elven, One Language
Background: Insight, Nature
- Two Languages
Rogue: Acrobatics, Investigation, Sleight of Hand, Stealth
- Thieves Tools, Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, one Gaming Set
- Two Languges
Bard: Deception, Performance, Persuasion, Animal Handling
- One Musical Instrument
Ranger: Survival
- (up to) Four Languages
- Double Prof to Int/Wis relating to two Favoured Terrains

You have six Expertise choices. I'd recommend;
- Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Persuasion, Stealth and Thieves Tools

What Skills are we missing?
- Arcana, History, Intimidation, Medicine and Religion
With a decent Wisdom, we can happily ignore Medicine. We've also got a decent Charisma and Half-Orc Barbarians like being good at Intimidation, so we can leave that one too. We could take the Skilled Feat to grab Arcana, History and Religion, given that Intelligence is probably a dump stat, but we only have 4 ASI's in this build anyway, so I probably wouldn't bother.

What else of note does this build have?
- Sneak Attack (6d6), Evasion, Reliable Talent
- Fighting Style, Hunters Prey, Extra Attack
- JoaT, Cutting Words
- 6th Level Spellcasting (=3rd Level Spell Slots)
-- 4 Ranger Spells Known (Hunters Mark, Goodberry, Hail of Thorns, Pass Without Trace)
-- 2 Bard Cantrips (Vicious Mockery, Minor Illusion)
-- 6 Bard Spells Known (Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Speak with Animals, Thunderwave, Invisibility, Enhance Ability)

ASI's/Feats:
- Sharpshooter and Skulker would be my choices for Feats. I'd use the other two for ASI's in Dex.

Use your downtime to pick up the tool proficiencies. Once you have the herbalism kit and also grab a healers kit (no prof required), and if you grab Detect Poison and Disease as a 1st level spell, you've essentially have the medicine skill.

[JellyPooga]

Use your downtime to pick up the tool proficiencies. Once you have the herbalism kit and also grab a healers kit (no prof required), and if you grab Detect Poison and Disease as a 1st level spell, you've essentially have the medicine skill.

Certainly an option. I'd rather use my downtime using Performance proficiency to maintain a Wealthy lifestyle and live it up to the max!

[JeenLeen]

I should reread the tool proficiencies. I figured herbalism was something like a healer's kit, and Cure Light Wounds tended to make a healer's kit useless in previous editions.


Use your downtime to pick up the tool proficiencies. Once you have the herbalism kit and also grab a healers kit (no prof required), and if you grab Detect Poison and Disease as a 1st level spell, you've essentially have the medicine skill.

How does this work?
Our DM is pro-roleplaying and character development, but this sounds like there are rules that we can just spend downtime focusing on these, and we earn them (without any xp cost or other downside than making some extra gold), so I wonder if he'd let us do that. Is it that easy? That sounds awesome and too good to be true.

[Talamare]

I should reread the tool proficiencies. I figured herbalism was something like a healer's kit, and Cure Light Wounds tended to make a healer's kit useless in previous editions.



How does this work?
Our DM is pro-roleplaying and character development, but this sounds like there are rules that we can just spend downtime focusing on these, and we earn them (without any xp cost or other downside than making some extra gold), so I wonder if he'd let us do that. Is it that easy? That sounds awesome and too good to be true.

p185

I did not notice that they got 2nd set of Expertise at 6 & 10
Alright, Start Rogue, MC into Cleric, MC into Bard

V-Human, Sage, 6 Rogue (Sure it can be Mastermind for +2 Languages), 10 Lore Bard, 1 Knowledge Cleric, 1 Ranger, Skilled Feat
1+2+4+4+2+1+3 Skills = 17 Skills
0+0+4+4+2+0+0 Exp = 10 Expertise

You have the option of going 8 Rogue or 12 Bard to pick up another ASI
Leveling wise, you Start Rogue with the Skilled feat (10+2 skills). MC to Cleric @ 2(12+4), MC to Bard @ 3(13+4) until Lv3(16+6). From there you can decide if you want to go more physical or more magical


Edit, Actually, if you really just want an optimal build that isn't an MC party. It might just be best to keep it simple

Half Elf, Sage, 10 Rogue, 10 Bard, Skilled Feat
2+2+4+4+3 = 15 Skills with 8 Expertise
Start Rogue with 8 Skills and 2 Expertise
MC Bard @2 and get him to 4 for 7 more skills and 2 more Expertise

Now you're level 5 with 15 Skills Trained and 4 Expertise
You have the choice now of going back to Rogue or Continuing improving your Magic with Bard. Altho I do suggest going back to pick up Cunning Action

The 3 Odd skills out can be... Medicine, Performance, ... Animal Handling?

[mgshamster]

How does this work?
Our DM is pro-roleplaying and character development, but this sounds like there are rules that we can just spend downtime focusing on these, and we earn them (without any xp cost or other downside than making some extra gold), so I wonder if he'd let us do that. Is it that easy? That sounds awesome and too good to be true.

Training by the PHB is 250 GP for 250 days to learn one tool proficiency.

The DMG suggests that you could also give out weapon, language, or skill proficiencies, too - these are optional rewards the GM could give out instead of treasure, land, or titles. Since this system is so flexible, the GM may choose to change the time and cost requirements, as well.

[Vogonjeltz]

How about skipping the whole language proficiency thing, and just emulating it?

My proposal:
Variant Human Great Old One Warlock (pact irrelevent)

Level 1 you gain Awakened Mind, this allows you to communicate thoughts to any creature you can see within 30 feet.
As a feat, Ritual Caster to have Comprehend Languages as a Ritual. This allows you to understand any languages you hear.

Granted, this would also be possible without the feat as a level 2 GOO Pact of the Tome Warlock who picks the ritual casting invocation. But this would successfully emulate a polyglot, albeit some kind of creepy sci-fi one like the navigators in Dune I suppose.

[Talamare]

How about skipping the whole language proficiency thing, and just emulating it?

My proposal:
Variant Human Great Old One Warlock (pact irrelevent)

Level 1 you gain Awakened Mind, this allows you to communicate thoughts to any creature you can see within 30 feet.
As a feat, Ritual Caster to have Comprehend Languages as a Ritual. This allows you to understand any languages you hear.

Granted, this would also be possible without the feat as a level 2 GOO Pact of the Tome Warlock who picks the ritual casting invocation. But this would successfully emulate a polyglot, albeit some kind of creepy sci-fi one like the navigators in Dune I suppose.

Comprehend Language is pretty set to fail tho, It says you understand the LITERAL meaning of what they say, and you can't say anything back

So, if I tell you John will fire his employee
You will probably understand it as "John will set his employee on fire"

and that's just an English example, in can you imagine in Japanese where the words like woman woman woman means noisy

You need the 3rd level spell Tongues to handwave languages

[mgshamster]

Comprehend Language is pretty set to fail tho, It says you understand the LITERAL meaning of what they say, and you can't say anything back

That's what Awakened Mind is for - so you can talk (well, use telepathy) back to them.

[mephnick]

That's what Awakened Mind is for - so you can talk (well, use telepathy) back to them.

I have a player who took this and also found a headband of comprehend languages. He can communicate with virtually anything, it's great.

Although not everyone is cool with a voice in their heads..