Stacking Fear Effects [3.5]

[Duke of Urrel]

The following quotation is from the Special Abilities section of the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fear). Its source is the Dungeon Master's Guide.

Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

The following quotation is from the Magic Overview section of the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects). Its source is the Player's Handbook.

Stacking Effects

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

These two rules seem to be in conflict. Can this conflict be resolved by the rules alone? Which rule is more general, and which is more specific?

A related question is whether either rule or both rules apply to Intimidate skill. This is not a spell effect, but is it a fear effect? Why or why not?

The answer that we give to this question has consequences. One creature can make an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent only once per round, because this is a standard action, but if two creatures work together, they may demoralize the same opponent twice in the same round. If you are demoralized by two enemies that use Intimidate skill in the same round, then do you become first shaken and then frightened? If you are demoralized by three enemies that use Intimidate skill in the same round, then do you become panicked?

[Troacctid]

You can't stack the same fear effect more than once (unless it specifically says you can), but fear from different sources stacks. I believe Heroes of Horror goes into more detail on the subject.

[Duke of Urrel]

Thank you for the prompt response! I shall have to check out Heroes of Horror. That and the Magic Item Compendium, which is another item on the long list of books that I haven't read.

Does your source specifically mention Intimidate skill? It seems to me that unless a creature is first affected by Intimidate skill, then a fear spell, and then another fear spell, the "fear effects are cumulative" rule won't apply very often, will it?

[Troacctid]

Say I'm a Bard. I use Inspire Awe, forcing my enemies to make a DC 30 Will save or be shaken. They fail, obviously. Then my Champion of Gwynharwyf buddy enters his rage, and his Fearsome Fury forces another save. They fail again, thanks to the -2 penalty they just took, and their condition escalates to shaken. He attacks them and triggers his Righteous Wrath feat, forcing yet another save. They fail a third time, and become panicked.

[Duke of Urrel]

Say I'm a Bard. I use Inspire Awe, forcing my enemies to make a DC 30 Will save or be shaken. They fail, obviously. Then my Champion of Gwynharwyf buddy enters his rage, and his Fearsome Fury forces another save. They fail again, thanks to the -2 penalty they just took, and their condition escalates to shaken. He attacks them and triggers his Righteous Wrath feat, forcing yet another save. They fail a third time, and become panicked.

I can go with this. Thanks again!

[johnbragg]

This is for the Homebrew section, and it would be an NPC class because one-option per combat isn't fun, but I'd like to use bards with escalating-by-round effects. Song of Fear that imposes a bane spell on the first blown will save, shaken on the second, dazed on the third ("frozen in your tracks"), frightened on the fourth blown will save.

Similar ladder of charm, sleep, etc effects.

[Seppo87]

Fear is not a bonus type

Hence, rules for stacking bonuses do not apply.

[Red Fel]

Fear, you say? Have a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809).

The handbook deals specifically with stacking fear effects. Basically, by escalating fear effects, you can move a target from shaken, to frightened, to panicked, to cowering. Read the handbook.


A related question is whether either rule or both rules apply to Intimidate skill. This is not a spell effect, but is it a fear effect? Why or why not?

You're speaking specifically of demoralizing. The handbook talks about that in detail. It is a fear effect, per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm):
A character immune to fear can’t be intimidated, nor can nonintelligent creatures.

So, yeah. It's a fear effect, inasmuch as fear-immune creatures resist it.


The answer that we give to this question has consequences. One creature can make an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent only once per round, because this is a standard action, but if two creatures work together, they may demoralize the same opponent twice in the same round. If you are demoralized by two enemies that use Intimidate skill in the same round, then do you become first shaken and then frightened? If you are demoralized by three enemies that use Intimidate skill in the same round, then do you become panicked?

Troacctid has the right of it. You can't be demoralized by the Intimidate skill and have it stack; it will overlap. So, for instance, the Intimidate with the highest demoralizing penalty (e.g. from size or feats) will be the one that imposes a penalty, and the one with the longest duration will be the one that remains in effect the longest. However, demoralization can stack with other sources of fear, explained in more detail in the handbook.

Further, you can use feats to ramp up the power of demoralization. The Imperious Command feat, for instance, causes the foe you demoralize to be cowering, rather than merely shaken, for one round, and then shaken on the following round. It's one ingredient of some very powerful combinations. Here is one of my favorites:
Barbarian, ideally with high Charisma
Instantaneous Rage: This feat allows you to go into a rage instantly, even when it is not your turn, in response to another's action.
Intimidating Rage: This feat allows you to demoralize one enemy when you rage. He remains shaken for the duration of your rage.
Imperious Command: This feat causes a demoralized target to be cowering, and then shaken.
Never Outnumbered: This skill trick allows you to demoralize multiple targets when you would otherwise demoralize one.
All together, this allows you to instantly reduce a room full of hostiles, even while they are performing actions, to a cowering state. They then all remain shaken - with attendant penalties - until your rage has subsided.
And this is before you start stacking fear effects. Bring a Bard/Dread Witch/Nightmare Spinner and watch the terror really mount.

[Duke of Urrel]

A handbook!

My hearty thanks to you, Red Fel. I have some reading to do!

EDIT: And now it's bookmarked. Thanks again!

[Andezzar]

Fear is not a bonus type

Hence, rules for stacking bonuses do not apply.More importantly fear effects are not modifiers (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_modifier&alpha=M) (i.e. bonuses (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_bonus&alpha=B) or penalties (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_penalty&alpha=P)). They are conditions, which themselves may contain modifiers.