Is Space Opera taking over for Superhero movies?

[Yora]

There has been a huge number of superhero movies in recent years will still over a dozen or two to come in the near future. And all hypes have to pass eventually.

Star Trek has been making some careful but apparently successful first steps back into the movie business for a few years, and now Star Wars has joined in with full commitment. If I remember correctly there are three new Avatar movies planned for the next years, and another Guardians of the Galaxy, which also looks space opera-ish. Prometheus also doesn't appear to be completely dead and trying to get back in some form. And today I've read that someone wants to make several Battlestar Galactica movies.

That's actually a pretty substential number of big budget space spectacle movies for the coming years. Is this the studios preparing to make the move away from superhero movies to something not yet as overcrowded?

[t209]

There has been a huge number of superhero movies in recent years will still over a dozen or two to come in the near future. And all hypes have to pass eventually.

Star Trek has been making some careful but apparently successful first steps back into the movie business for a few years, and now Star Wars has joined in with full commitment. If I remember correctly there are three new Avatar movies planned for the next years, and another Guardians of the Galaxy, which also looks space opera-ish. Prometheus also doesn't appear to be completely dead and trying to get back in some form. And today I've read that someone wants to make several Battlestar Galactica movies.

That's actually a pretty substential number of big budget space spectacle movies for the coming years. Is this the studios preparing to make the move away from superhero movies to something not yet as overcrowded?
Does this means Fox will decide to make Silver Surfer movie or reviving the good but cancelled animated series?
Yeah, wonder why they always want Doom vs. F4 instead of the entire mythos info dump.

[Darth Credence]

Is "I hope so" an acceptable answer?

I love superhero movies, and will continue to watch them, but space opera is and probably always will be my personal favorite.

[Fishybugs]

I'm looking forward to the original stories (even if they're just books being converted to screenplays) more than the reboots. Passengers looks like it could be good. Valerian and Ghost in the Shell are also coming out within the next 18 months.

The Star Trek reboots haven't been bad...but they haven't been good either. Apparently after the success of Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Trek Beyond's script was frantically rewritten to be "Less Star Trek-y". Simon Pegg (http://screenrant.com/star-trek-3-beyond-script-orci-simon-pegg/) helped with the rewrite which could be a good thing...but making it less Star Trek-y will definitely take away the appeal for a lot of people (myself included). I want to watch Star Trek to see Star Trek. If I want a space adventure, I'll watch that.

Superhero movies aren't going anywhere soon. I don't think they'll have the staying power of science fiction because, as a general rule, while most comic book fans are also sci-fi fans, the inverse is not true. Sci-fi is a much bigger market. That being said, there are currently superhero movies planned through November 2020. There will be more added on as they conclude some story lines, and start all new ones, I'm sure.

I'm enjoying the higher production value shows being put out. Heroes Reborn was crap..it wasn't worth watching the low quality special effects in that. NBC is consistently disappointing in the science fiction department either by putting out crap or cancelling good shows (Constantine, Bionic Woman reboot, The Event, Chuck, The Cape, etc.) which is weird since they and SyFy are owned and ran by the same executives. Of course, SyFy had it's own quality dip for quite a while from which they are now recovering. If you haven't been watching the Expanse, call in sick to work or school and go watch it.

Really, go watch it. I'll wait.

....

....

That was pretty good, wasn't it? Dark Matter and Killjoys are two more which came out last summer that are pretty well done, both in effects and writing. Some pretty good talent on-screen as well.

Anyway, that was much longer than I meant it to be, sorry.

[Yora]

I'm looking forward to the original stories (even if they're just books being converted to screenplays) more than the reboots. Passengers looks like it could be good. Valerian and Ghost in the Shell are also coming out within the next 18 months.

:smalltongue:

I don't know if I want to see that. Innocence was pretty damn great, but I'd rather leave it untouched.

Edit: Oh wait. They are doing it with an all white cast? Probably also moving the plot to America then, I guess. Yeah, I don't want to see that.

[t209]

:smalltongue:

I don't know if I want to see that. Innocence was pretty damn great, but I'd rather leave it untouched.

Edit: Oh wait. They are doing it with an all white cast? Probably also moving the plot to America then, I guess. Yeah, I don't want to see that.
Yeah, not to mention that the movie might be better if they made it as CGI than live action.
I mean there's datascape scenes and other things that might be suitable with animation.
Plus white VA are less controversial than white A.
Not to mention Hollywood reliance on clinche than original materials.

[Yora]

It's not inherently wrong to adapt a tale to a different environment and social context. People have been doing that to stage plays for decades The plot of GitS takes place in Japan because the author lived in Japan, but it's not a tale about Japan. It could take place anywhere.

It's just that when hollywood movie makers do it, the result has never looked like they had any interest in the content of the source material but simply produced some cheap shlock with a name recognition brand slapped to it. And this one is most probably called Ghost in the Shell for the sole reason that they hope some uninformed people think "I heard that name before and I think it has a good reputation."
These movies are not made for fans of the originals. They are meant for people who don't actually know the originals.

[Ravens_cry]

Honestly, my biggest peeve is . . . why can't a Ghost in the Shell movie stay anime? It's adult and mature themes worked perfectly well in the previous movies and series as animation, so why change that?

[Darth Credence]

Honestly, my biggest peeve is . . . why can't a Ghost in the Shell movie stay anime? It's adult and mature themes worked perfectly well in the previous movies and series as animation, so why change that?

Because an anime movie will not make as much money as a live action movie will. The highest grossing anime was the first Pokemon movie, at ~$86 million, and the second was the second Pokemon movie, at ~$44 million. Compare that to the first anime turned live action movie I can think of, The Last Airbender, which made ~$132 million, more than the other two combined.

[Ravens_cry]

Because an anime movie will not make as much money as a live action movie will. The highest grossing anime was the first Pokemon movie, at ~$86 million, and the second was the second Pokemon movie, at ~$44 million. Compare that to the first anime turned live action movie I can think of, The Last Airbender, which made ~$132 million, more than the other two combined.
And cost a butt load more to make. Pokemon movie cost 30 million, and Last Airbender didn't even break even.

[Kitten Champion]

Honestly, my biggest peeve is . . . why can't a Ghost in the Shell movie stay anime? It's adult and mature themes worked perfectly well in the previous movies and series as animation, so why change that?

Not sure I get your point. For Hollywood to profit off the Ghost in the Shell IP they'd actually have to make something using it, and a live action movie is what they can do most easily and what would make them the most money overall. Making their own animation would be kind of redundant, and just generally questionable all around.

Besides, it's not like the original movies or television series will cease to exists simply because someone else made an adaptation of it.

[Aotrs Commander]

Never mind the rest of it, I just want to see some fragging decent starship battles.

Something that hasn't been done decently on TV for twenty bloody years (whether live action (Babylon 5) or CGI cartoon).

It's a crying fracking tragedy in this day an age that War Planets: Shadow Warriors still holds the frag-damn title for largest mass starfighter combat...

And in movies it's pretty much even worse; I think the last one that was actually good was Undiscovered Country.

(Though of all movies, Star Trek Nemasis at least gave it half-hearted try; some thing that the otherwise-better Star Trek psuedo-reboot didn't really bother with (traguically, since Wrath of Khan had one of Trek's better ones). And none of the last for Star Wars movies have really given it much beyond some short but adequate dogfighting in TFA or a glorified backdrop in RoftS.)

[Bulldog Psion]

I'm still waiting for a movie with grav tanks in it. A vain wait, of course, but I can dream. :smallbiggrin:

Always had an implausible liking for the concept.

[Lethologica]

Is this an intentional complement to CmdrShep's threads bemoaning the death of the space opera genre, or what?

Anyway--yes, space opera is growing again, but it's not displacing the superhero genre anytime soon. Not that it's a zero-sum game to begin with.

[Rodin]

I'm still waiting for a movie with grav tanks in it. A vain wait, of course, but I can dream. :smallbiggrin:

Always had an implausible liking for the concept.

Until then, there's always Sgt. Bilko.

[DavidSh]

What I'd like to see is a live-action (with the necessary CGI for Worsel) version of the first mission of Galactic Patrol, with updated sensibilities about tobacco and the relations between the sexes. I know there was a Japanese animation, but it wasn't very faithful by all accounts.

[Darth Ultron]

That's actually a pretty substential number of big budget space spectacle movies for the coming years. Is this the studios preparing to make the move away from superhero movies to something not yet as overcrowded?

I guess it depends how you look at it.

You could say there are a ''lot'' of space movies, maybe even a ''lot'' of space operas, but it all depends on how you look at it.

Though, in any case, I think superheros will dominate for the next couple years.

And we just might get a Robotech movie in 2016...

[TheThan]

It's not inherently wrong to adapt a tale to a different environment and social context. People have been doing that to stage plays for decades The plot of GitS takes place in Japan because the author lived in Japan, but it's not a tale about Japan. It could take place anywhere.

It's just that when hollywood movie makers do it, the result has never looked like they had any interest in the content of the source material but simply produced some cheap shlock with a name recognition brand slapped to it. And this one is most probably called Ghost in the Shell for the sole reason that they hope some uninformed people think "I heard that name before and I think it has a good reputation."
These movies are not made for fans of the originals. They are meant for people who don't actually know the originals.
Well yeah, companies want to make money when they release a movie. Heck they have to make money or they fail. So its in their best interest to pick a target audience that will make them the most money. That means you’re average everyday moviegoer that probably doesn’t know much about anime. They may know some very basic stuff, but they are hardly anime fans. It’s about putting people in seats, not making a faithful adaptation.


Honestly, my biggest peeve is . . . why can't a Ghost in the Shell movie stay anime? It's adult and mature themes worked perfectly well in the previous movies and series as animation, so why change that?

Because someone thinks they can make money off of making a film adaptation. besides even if they make a really bad movie, you still have the anime to enjoy. it's not like they're going to hunt you down and burn your copy.


also i want to know where the opera in space opera is. I haven't heard any singing. :smallbiggrin:

[Marlowe]

Ghost in the Shell's actually a bit weird. There's no place-names given and there's a noticable absence of written Japanese from the street signs. Lots of Chinese though. Yes, I know Japanese makes heavy use of Chinese characters but it's still odd to note the absence of Japanese symbols I'm used to seeing.

I'm not suggesting it's NOT set in Japan, but watching the first movie it can be very easy to get the idea that the setting is "Generic Cyberpunk City With Asian Flavour" rather than specifically Japan. First time I saw it I assumed it was Hong Kong (no, I hadn't been to Hong Kong at the time. Yes, I have now and know better) because of the shot at the end.

Of course, manga and anime can do some odd things. A lot of the streetsigns in the Battle Angel Alita manga are in Korean, and one newspaper is shown printed in Hebrew. For the record, Battle Angel Alita is set in what used to be Kansas City.

[t209]

Ghost in the Shell's actually a bit weird. There's no place-names given and there's a noticable absence of written Japanese from the street signs. Lots of Chinese though. Yes, I know Japanese makes heavy use of Chinese characters but it's still odd to note the absence of Japanese symbols I'm used to seeing.

I'm not suggesting it's NOT set in Japan, but watching the first movie it can be very easy to get the idea that the setting is "Generic Cyberpunk City With Asian Flavour" rather than specifically Japan. First time I saw it I assumed it was Hong Kong (no, I hadn't been to Hong Kong at the time. Yes, I have now and know better) because of the shot at the end.
Well, it did explain that the Japan in Ghost In the Shell got large influx of Asian Refugees after WW3.

[Ramza00]

Edit: Had this thread in a tab and it seams Marlowe made some of my points earlier and I did not hit refresh prior to posting. That said I am still keeping my post below the same, I am just pointing out Marlowe got here first and I am repeating some of what was said earlier.


It's not inherently wrong to adapt a tale to a different environment and social context. People have been doing that to stage plays for decades The plot of GitS takes place in Japan because the author lived in Japan, but it's not a tale about Japan. It could take place anywhere.

It's just that when hollywood movie makers do it, the result has never looked like they had any interest in the content of the source material but simply produced some cheap shlock with a name recognition brand slapped to it. And this one is most probably called Ghost in the Shell for the sole reason that they hope some uninformed people think "I heard that name before and I think it has a good reputation."
These movies are not made for fans of the originals. They are meant for people who don't actually know the originals.

Bangs your head, as well as my head repeatedly against a brick wall to demonstrate how fan boys can be so stupid and so judgemental prior to something coming out.

The GITS Movie (1995) as well as GITS Innocence (2004) do not take place in Japan, or if they do take place in Japan it is such a fundamental different Japan that you can't call it Japan. For two reasons

1) They use Chinese Kanji in the GITS Movie and not Japanesse Kanji. They may look the same to Americans but they are not the same.

2) The director of the GITS movie says that the city that the GITS movie takes place in was purposefully inspired by Hong Kong.

Thus some fans argue it is really in Hong Kong in this GITS specific movie universe, or that if its in Japan it is nothing like the Japan we know.

-------

Now the rest of the GITS franchise and their multiple universes may have section 9 taking place in Japan but the GITS original movie franchise is purposefully not trying to be telling a Japanese story.

You need to remember that these GITS franchises operate seperate universes and thus seperate stories just like how there are multiple universes to tell Superman or Batman Stories.


GITS Manga

GITS Movie (1995), GITS Innocence

GITS SAC, GITS 2nd Gig, GITS SAC Solid State Society

GITS Arise OVA and upcomming GITS Arise Movie


One way you can easily tell which GITS universe you are in is the Major's hair style. Major Kusanagi's hair color is different in each of those different universe. Another way you can tell is the name of the think tanks.

Fuchikoma (フチコマ, original manga),
Tachikoma (タチコマ, Stand Alone Complex),
Uchikoma (ウチコマ, Solid State Society which is part of SAC but later in the SAC timeline), and
Logicoma (ロジコマ?, Arise).

Now the Japan in the manga and the SAC anime are fundamentally not like Japan we know now for all the major cities were destroyed in previous nuclear wars and thus new cities were built and these cities were also not Japanesse (since Japan has very little immigration over the last 500 years) but were a mixture of Japan but also the refugees of other Asian nations.

In fact the whole 2nd GIG SAC deals with the consequences of an isolationist nation and many of their episodes are actually referencing things like the 1930s with the Individual Eleven Fingers, and how Amakusa Shirō with the Japanese Joan of Arc / Messiah Like Figure attempted to change Japan in the Shimabara Rebellion (1637, 1638) and how the failure of this rebellion was used by the existing military industrial complex to further entrace Japan in isolationism. Amakusa Shiro being personified in Hideo Kuze.

(Now while the Japan began 200 years of isolationism following of Shimabara Rebellion understand that what really happened was the rebellion was used as an excuse to make the feudal society of Japan even more unequal. Japan did not stop trading but what they did was create special cities where the existing people in the feudal society controlled all trade and input and output for Japan and thus they got filthy rich and then they used this wealth generated by trade to indoctrinate themselves further into power and thus the real people of Japan suffered while the rich got richer. The rich used the uprising as a villain making opportunity and where they did it for the sake of the people in a form of propaganda.)

The whole point of the 2nd gig was Japan finding a better path and not reliving different specific times of the last 500 years of Japan such as screwing up what happened during the Shimbara Rebellion (1600s) or the 1930s run up to World War II, or Japan getting wealthy but having no national unity after World War II during their rebuilding and instead just being wealth pursuing for wealth sake. During those times Japan may not have made the best decisions for its people, not necessarily the worse decisions but definitely not the best decisions. Supposedly at the end of the 2nd GIG they threaded the needle between the extremes to a point a better society could form. Finally Japan is getting the right form of prime minister...

-----


All of this is to say do not judge a book based on its cover before the movie comes out. Saying its going to suck because its not set in my favorite location misses the point when they have already done so and you did not even notice.

This is not to say that I am looking forward to the Scarlet Johanson upcoming live action movie. I am doubtful its going to be good but I am not readying assuming it is going to suck based off something silly like is it set in the US, Japan, or Hong Kong.

Most likely its going to suck since the villian is going to be the Laughing Man, except this laughing man is going to be a leader of a bunch of criminals. See that sentence is very scary but scary does not mean it is destined to suck or it is destined to be some premade crappy hollywood adaption.

[Lethologica]

Edge of Tomorrow was a non-terrible adaptation of All You Need Is Kill for Western audiences. That's about the ceiling for my expectations for the GitS live action adaptation. Frankly, I don't think they should try to out-Japan Japan with the IP anyway, so it's this or nothing. (Not saying I would mind nothing, of course.)

BTW, Ramza, your whole rant about how GitS could have been set in Hong Kong (I agree the city was inspired by Hong Kong) is irrelevant to Yora's apprehension, and Yora even explicitly states, in the part you bolded and underlined, that his apprehension isn't about moving GitS out of the Japanese context per se. So wouldja dial back the "you fanboys are so stupid and judgmental" act? It just makes you look silly when you completely misinterpret the people you're ranting at/about.