World War Hulk: Whose Side Are You On?

[Foeofthelance]

So, Civil War came and went, and left a pretty little mess in it's wake. For those of you who missed it, this also involved kicking Bruce Banner, AKA the Hulk, off the planet. This was accomplished by some of the more "brilliant" minds on the planet, including Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Namor, and Blackbolt.

Well, long story short, and because there might be people picking up back issues who don't want spoilers, they botched it, and badly. So now the Hulk is on his way back, and he wants blood in the worst way possible. Plus he has an army to back him, an army of blood thirsty warriors who fought their ways out of the gladiator pits. Oh, and did I mention this a smart Hulk?

Personally, I'm siding with the Hulk. If a group of guys decided that it was ok to trick me on to a space ship and dropped through a black hole I'd be pretty ticked too. The fact that it was all Tony Stark's idea just adds icing. Probably wouldn't be spared, but Hulk seems to be doing this in a smart way, at least based off the first issue.

So for now, HULK SMASH!!!

[Logic]

Reasons Hulk has the right to be mad.

1) When the guys you consider your friends trick you into getting you into space, only to tell you you are going away forever on a rocketship, because it is what is "best for all of us", and they didn't even bother to see if you could safely make it there in the first place.

2) Sold into slavery upon arriving on a planet where a terrible dictator rules with an iron fist.

3) The ship you arrive on kills your wife and unborn child.

Yeah, Hulk has every right to be pissed. I hope that him coming back shows what a bad idea the SHRA.

[Lord of the Helms]

Hulk. Definitely Hulk. The Illuminati have everything he's gonna dish out coming, big time.

Who among the heroes on earth would side with the Hulk in this? Namor is a pretty safe bet, and from what I'm hearing She-Hulk could also side with him. I do wonder what the two biggest powerhouses on the planet, Nova (post-Annihilation) and the Sentry are going to do.

[Ranis]

I somehow think that the rest of the heroes on Earth will side against Hulk if that's what it takes to stop him.

What I think will be interesting is who villains like Mephisto and Doom side with.

[Beleriphon]

I'm totally hoping to see Hulk dish out some righteous justice on Tony Stark.

[Grod_The_Giant]

...the rest of the heroes on Earth will side against Hulk...

and still get their collective ass whupped. I take the Hulk's side here. For reasons of survival.

Not to mention that certain members of the Illuminati (*coughStarkcough*) have it coming to them...

[....]

I'm totally hoping to see Hulk dish out some righteous justice on Tony Stark.


Seconded.

I bet Spiderman helps him, and then halfway through turns on him.

[Beleriphon]

Seconded.

I bet Spiderman helps him, and then halfway through turns on him.

Stark? Spidey's already done that bit, when Tony tried to kill him.

[Gavin Sage]

I'm on the side of who cares? I'm rather Big Evented out, and so Hulk is going to kick everybody's butt. Who hoo. Having rather liked CW I don't have any "Stupid MARVEL!" anger to work off. So yeah, do I really want to go chase across the comic rack myself.

[Beleriphon]

I'm on the side of who cares? I'm rather Big Evented out, and so Hulk is going to kick everybody's butt. Who hoo. Having rather liked CW I don't have any "Stupid MARVEL!" anger to work off. So yeah, do I really want to go chase across the comic rack myself.

You should be good then, since as far as I can tell World War Hulk is contained entirely within the pages of the Hulk comics, or as its own miniseries. I don't recall which, but its isn't a big crazy cross over thing as far as I've seen.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

On Sakaar, whenever Miek (one of Hulk's allies) found the man who had wiped out Miek's family, Miek wanted revenge. His other allies tried to talk Miek out of it and Miek turned to the Hulk and asked what Hulk would do. I think Hulk's response sets the tone for all of World War Hulk.

"I'd never stop making them pay." -Hulk.

After reading the last issue of W.W. Hulk, I think the Illuminati need permanently dismantled and decimated. As much as I love Reed Richards, I think if Hulk tied his legs in a knot and just stretched him until he snapped, I think I'd cheer. If Tony Stark ended up crushed inside his little suit, I know I'd cheer. I am firmly behind the Hulk in this.

[Gundato]

I am all for Hulk brutally maiming Tony Stark and Reed Richards. Xavier too, if he is even around (I have never been able to force myself to follow the x-men).

But, the moment he takes it one step farther (revenge on Earth itself), I hope he gets the living hell beaten out of him.

And yeah, this had better not be a major crossover. Civil War was nice, but it is too soon for another.

[Gavin Sage]

You should be good then, since as far as I can tell World War Hulk is contained entirely within the pages of the Hulk comics, or as its own miniseries. I don't recall which, but its isn't a big crazy cross over thing as far as I've seen.

It has a check list and tie-ins. What they put out already wasn't even published in something approaching being linear. She-Hulk had a fight we saw the aftermath of before the fight was published. Make no mistake this is a Big Event with all the problems that comes with that format.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I dunno, I could totally go for a more old school crossover where it's just "BRAH, BIG GUY MAKE ALL HEROES GO SQUISH!". I'd just like them to keep the drama to a minimum and let me watch the Hulk hit people that I want to see get hit.

In other words, I back big greenie.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I dunno, I could totally go for a more old school crossover where it's just "BRAH, BIG GUY MAKE ALL HEROES GO SQUISH!". I'd just like them to keep the drama to a minimum and let me watch the Hulk hit people that I want to see get hit.

In other words, I back big greenie.

QFT. THAT is Marvel's problem, in my opinion. Too much soap opera, not enough but-kicking. I so want a comic that's just the good guys and the bad guys -undeniably good an bad guys- beating the snot out of each other.

Go Hulk. Just...stay out of Pennsylvania, please.

[....]

Stark? Spidey's already done that bit, when Tony tried to kill him.

Not Stark, the Hulk:

Spidey: Oh yes Hulk, I fully support you in my black costumed rebel mode.

Hulk smashes Stark,

Spidey: Oh no Hulk, I cannot let you take the life of this man who helped me.

Stark: Thanks, Pete.

Spidey: Of course, Tony.

Romantic kiss.

[Green Bean]

Not Stark, the Hulk:

Spidey: Oh yes Hulk, I fully support you in my black costumed rebel mode.

Hulk smashes Stark,

Spidey: Oh no Hulk, I cannot let you take the life of this man who helped me.

Stark: Thanks, Pete.

Spidey: Of course, Tony.

Romantic kiss.

I find it sad that my first reaction to this was, 'It's been done.'

Curse you, Fanfiction.net! :smallmad:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not Stark, the Hulk:

Spidey: Oh yes Hulk, I fully support you in my black costumed rebel mode.

Hulk smashes Stark,

Spidey: Oh no Hulk, I cannot let you take the life of this man who helped me.

Stark: Thanks, Pete.

Spidey: Of course, Tony.

Romantic kiss.

:yuk:<PUKE>:yuk:

[Logic]

QFT. THAT is Marvel's problem, in my opinion. Too much soap opera, not enough but-kicking. I so want a comic that's just the good guys and the bad guys -undeniably good an bad guys- beating the snot out of each other.

The problem with this story type, is if comics are oly this, there is nothing, except conflict. There is no story, jsut a villian that shows up that you have to defeat. This type of story belongs better in a video game, not a comic book.

[Gumbo T]

I support Hulk, because I think it's fun to watch him smash, especially given his targets.

But make no mistake -- he's a first class jerk for doing what he's doing. He wants to take revenge on Stark et al., but in order to do it, he's essentially taken New York hostage and forced its evacuation. This is tremendously problematic; imagine how many people die or suffer when clearing out a hospital, for instance. Imagine if one of the buildings Hulk smashed contained your family's home or business. Saying that the Illuminati should have simply surrendered themselves upon his return to Earth isn't good enough; whatever his ax to grind is, Hulk knows that innocent lives will suffer terribly because of his actions. He just doesn't care.

In all seriousness, though, go Hulk. :smallbiggrin:

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Why would anyone want dramatic plot development in a major crossover? That stuff's better suited to each hero's individual comic, not a major crisis that needs butt kicking. No one buys these things saying "Gee, I hope Peter Parker has a three issue introspection about the duality of man". It's "Gee, I hope Spider-Man lays somebody flat".

[Logic]

Why would anyone want dramatic plot development in a major crossover? That stuff's better suited to each hero's individual comic, not a major crisis that needs butt kicking. No one buys these things saying "Gee, I hope Peter Parker has a three issue introspection about the duality of man". It's "Gee, I hope Spider-Man lays somebody flat".

Yes, but if there is no undelying story, then there is no reason to read the comics at all, just look at the pretty pictures.

So, if comics are only about fights, then it should be 3 pages of set-up, and then 12-20 pages of fight scenes, with little to no dialouge to make anything make any sense.

Since the fights always end with the heroes winning, the fight themselves are cheapened, because I know that the hero will not lose (exceptions exist.)

Now, crossovers should be about heroes fightnig villians. But, there should be some kind of story element that makes this villian enough of a threat that requires more than one hero to take down. If not, why not send the hero that defeated him by himself at the villian?

Now, it is my opinion that Marvel is superior to DC for the HUMAN element of the heroes. Marvel shows that all the characters, heroes and villians alike, have flaws, needs, wants, desires, emotions, and a driving force.

DC characters are often just a collection of powers, and a single motivation. For this, DC characters are more like mythical beings than humans. DC stories tend to be just enough story to make the fights make sense, with the banter thrown in the fight to make you sure that the hero is cooler and wittier than the villian he is facing.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

You've sort of got my point. I'm saying, a major crossover really should just have enough story to make sense, then let the punches fly. We can read about the repurcussions for the individual heroes in their own series later, where it will invariably be better written and more satisfying.

I'd be a little cautious to say that Marvel is innately more "human" with how it portrays characters. They show the darker aspects of the human psyche more often. Where the big leaguers in DC show some of our best human traits, Marvel big leaguers will usually show the worst. Prefference is then more of if you want a role model (leaning DC) or more tragic storytelling (Marvel), though both will certainly display darker and lighter fare from time to time.

[TheNifty]

But make no mistake -- he's a first class jerk for doing what he's doing. He wants to take revenge on Stark et al., but in order to do it, he's essentially taken New York hostage and forced its evacuation.

If Hulk was just getting revenge for his own treatment at their hands he would not be justified in causing collateral damage. What you have to remember though, is that the spaceship exploding hurt more than just him. Millions of innocents died primarily because of the illuminati's actions - Tony Stark, Reed Richards and the others have to be made to see that they have caused something far worse than the Stamford disaster, a disaster that ironically enough, they blamed on heroes acting recklessly.

Imagine if a crashed spaceship blew up in say, New York, killing millions. Wouldn't you feel justified in demanding those responsible be smashed punished? Would you really quibble if those tasked to capture them caused a little property damage?

[Gavin Sage]

If Hulk was just getting revenge for his own treatment at their hands he would not be justified in causing collateral damage. What you have to remember though, is that the spaceship exploding hurt more than just him. Millions of innocents died primarily because of the illuminati's actions - Tony Stark, Reed Richards and the others have to be made to see that they have caused something far worse than the Stamford disaster, a disaster that ironically enough, they blamed on heroes acting recklessly.

Imagine if a crashed spaceship blew up in say, New York, killing millions. Wouldn't you feel justified in demanding those responsible be smashed punished? Would you really quibble if those tasked to capture them caused a little property damage?

Well the Illuminati's ship is at the basic level an accident. If memory serves the basic plan was send Hulk to an uninhabitated planet. And the level of destruction caused is far then would be nessecary for a self-destruct, so gets into specific circumstances. Accidents caused by unpredictable occurences do not nessecarily incurr fault. Plane gets struck by lightning, hits something while crashing, bad but not something you can nessecarily punish the plane's maker for. Even then it is still the fault of a small group, thus at a basic level is an accident ethical cause for war?

Not that I'd reasonably expect anyone would actually care about such technicalities should such a magnitude event occur, especially Hulk.

Here's an interesting question, what would Hulk do if the Illuminati actually surrendered? Would he pack up and leave or does he need seas of blood for seas of blood?

[GoC]

DIE UGLY RAMGAGING GREEN N VILLAIN WHO WAS KICKED OFF THE EARTH FOR THE GOOD OF ALL MANKIND!:smallyuk:

[Finn Solomon]

I follow the code of What Would Richards Do, so I guess I'm with the Illuminati on this one.

It might not be a very popular point of view, but the Hulk really is a threat to humanity. Imprisoning the Hulk does not work. Flinging him to the furthest reaches of the universe does not work. Hulk needs to die, so that mankind can survive.

[Revlid]

Agreed. Hulk is a threat, and its well past time he was taken care of.
However, I come to this conclusion not from What Would Richards Do?, but from What Would Doom Do?, as I suspect that Doom shall be the one to vanquish yon emerald beastie.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

The Hulk also has an axe to grind with Hollywood. You know, for the Hulk movie. If I was a super strong, unkillable monster with no self control and someone made a movie about me that was that terrible, I'd smash them to bits.

[Beleriphon]

It might not be a very popular point of view, but the Hulk really is a threat to humanity. Imprisoning the Hulk does not work. Flinging him to the furthest reaches of the universe does not work. Hulk needs to die, so that mankind can survive.

The Hulk might be a threat, but Bruce Banner is still Tony Stark's friend. If nothing else they might have you know approached Banner and at least asked the man, but they didn't. This is why the Hulk is fun, there is a terrific duality to the character.

At any rate I just want to watch the Hulk crush Iron Man into the Iron Basketball and play hoops with him.

[Logic]

I have decided to rethink the issue, and here are the few points that makes me change my stance a little.

The problem I have with Hulk coming back with an army, is that Hulk doesn't need an army. He can get his revenge on the Illuminati all by himself, and he probably doesn't even need to play his cards right, just fast enough that one doesn't warn the others. The army will undoubtedly cause collateral damage, the entire reason the illuminati banished Banner in the first place.

My hope is that Hulk will realize what he is doing to the general populace is worse than what the Illuminati did to him, and he might come to his senses.

The Hulk has every right to be angry, and until he has made the Illuminati pay, he will not be able to be reasoned with. A smart Earth population under the control of the SHRA will hand over all the people from the Illuminati that they physically can (That includes Stark, Xavier, & Richards while leaving Hulk to go after Blackbolt & Namor on his own. Dr. Strange may be too much for the government to just "Hand over")

[lord_khaine]

actualy im on the side of the iluminati here, Hulk has allways been a walking timebomb, leaving a random trial of death and destruction, so sending him off to another planet should have been done years ago.

[Selrahc]

Doctor Strange can at will place the Hulk in an unbreakable sphere of energy. He has done it before, sometimes multiple times in the same issue.

I think thats why Doc Strange just got stabbed in the New Avengers, otherwise Hulk would be a negated threat with one handwave.

[Logos7]

really, always has been and always will be?

a timebomb you say? Look at all those times where if the hulk would have just been left alone, nothing would have happened. To Fight takes 2 people, either way regardless of if he's a timebomb he's still human. They treat walking timebombs much better than they did the hulk. ( and why they put a super nuke on the ship that was surposed to get rid of the hulk except to flip him the bird in all his endevors i wouldn't know )

I surpose the motto, you reap what you sow would seem appripiate here.

Am i the only one really interested in what Miek and Brood are going to do with Humbug? ( I hope the powerup/suit puts Humbug on omega levels is all i can say)

Logos

[TreesOfDeath]

I haven't been following the whole thing,but Hulk is a threat o lives. His cobntinued excistence will invaribly lead to innocents dieing. What else can be done?

[Jerthanis]

Doctor Strange can at will place the Hulk in an unbreakable sphere of energy. He has done it before, sometimes multiple times in the same issue.

I think thats why Doc Strange just got stabbed in the New Avengers, otherwise Hulk would be a negated threat with one handwave.

While you may be right about the coincidental stabbing, Hulk is strongest one there is. If there's unbreakable energy to be had, Hulk is the one who can break it if he's mad enough, and it's safe to say he's madder than he's ever been right now.

Which may be a fancy way of saying, "The plot says the Hulk would probably win"

As far as this issue goes, I want the heroes and the Illuminati to win in the end, because I really like Reed Richards and Doc Strange, and think their plan to get rid of him was a good one. (IIRC it was supposed to actually be a satellite orbiting the moon or something, where he couldn't escape, but if they ever found a cure for Hulk-itis they could retrieve him... and it was a malfunction or space debris that caused the ship to careen off through a black hole. I don't know if that's right though) but I also want them to get beaten until they wanna cry uncle before something happens to calm him down.

What I don't want to see: The Sentry beating him up. The Sentry has practically no limits and no weaknesses. The fact that I really enjoyed him and his duality with the Void, and his almost complete inability to interact with the world around him due to psychosis when he was introduced doesn't cancel out the fact that his powers are too vast, and don't have enough explanation. (The power of a million exploding suns? WTF does that even mean? How exactly did a chemical do that to him?) and he doesn't have the weight of history to back up his claims to power.

Enemies he fights have to be WAY out of everyone else's league. Like with the collective, or whatever it was called. At least Dr. Strange can fight people who come at him suddenly, armed with specially enchanted weapons, Sentry just wins because he can.

[RandyRhoads1]

I'm willing to bet that Hulk's gonna go on a rampage until She-Hulk convinces him to stop.

[Green Bean]

really, always has been and always will be?

a timebomb you say? Look at all those times where if the hulk would have just been left alone, nothing would have happened. To Fight takes 2 people, either way regardless of if he's a timebomb he's still human. They treat walking timebombs much better than they did the hulk. ( and why they put a super nuke on the ship that was surposed to get rid of the hulk except to flip him the bird in all his endevors i wouldn't know )


You see, that's what I don't get. Why on earth would Richard put a nuke on the Hulk's ship? Is it beyond the brains of one of the smartest men on earth to come up with something less...destructive? Heck, even setting a fuse to blow once the ship reaches its destination would have worked.

[Gavin Sage]

The Hulk might be a threat, but Bruce Banner is still Tony Stark's friend. If nothing else they might have you know approached Banner and at least asked the man, but they didn't. This is why the Hulk is fun, there is a terrific duality to the character.

It was brought up when the Illuminati made the decision that Banner had confided to Richards (I believe) that if up to him he would have shotgunned himself many years ago. Hulk won't let puny Banner do it. Ergo telling Banner, equals Hulk rampage.

Hence the apologetic video.

[....]

What about the Hulk? Forget about Banner for a sec, the Hulk might not want to get shot into space!

I hope he rips Iron Man apart and uses Richards as a slingshot.

(And we all know he lives cuz of that one shot comic where he's the last living person on earth :smallwink: )

[Hushdawg]

You raised a good point; Banner had already stated that he'd tried to kill himself but the Hulk wouldn't let him.

This is a clear indication that the Hulk aspect of his personality is far out of control.

Hulk is a murderer, and not in the interesting Anthony Hopkins kind of way; more in the Jeffrey Dahmer/Charlie Manson/William H. Gacey sort of way.

He's ruthless, vicious and nothing redeemable about him.

Hulk.must.die.

Have they tried shooting him into a star yet?

I know in the Ultimates universe they were able to de-hulk him by having Wasp zap the prefrontal lobe and then Captain America put a nice curb-stomp on him.

[Hushdawg]

Oh, by the way; whatever they find to do to de-power and kill Hulk - I sure hope they do it AFTER he shreds Tony Stark.... bastard deserves it for getting Cap killed.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Wait- the Hulk deserves death for preventing the suicide of a good man?

...

...what?

[kpenguin]

Hulk deserves death because of the destruction and deaths he's caused. Say what you want about Tony, he isn't as destructive as Hulk. I'm going with the Illuminati on this one.

[Logos7]

Tony Caused the Civil War, i don't see you tallying up all the suicides in the nega zone in this? or all that damage created by the two sides fighting ( IDEA 42 ANOTHER WINNER FROM STARK CORP) and that whole, double dipping thing going on with Stark and Fantastic Corps, just screams less damage.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I can understand some people wanting the Hulk punished for his past transgressions, just not for preventing Banner's suicide. That's just... I don't know what that is, but it's a special sort of confusion.

But the Hulk also prevented a lot of deaths, including the destruction of the planet plenty of times. He's controllable to a point, and bit for bit more of a hero then he is a villain. It's the volatability of such a childish persona (Savage Hulk) that made the Illuminati send him away, and that does make sense. But it was the Hulk's heroic side, along with Banner, that made them refrain from killing him.

I'm asking, why be so ready to say "They should have killed the Hulk!" because of his temper tantrums? He does more good then harm.

Except maybe now in WWH. But the Hulk is equally justified in his rage this time.

[Crazy_Uncle_Doug]

I'm actually siding with Namor in this fight.

Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Doc Strange, and the Black Bolt shouldn't have done what they did. They meant well, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Moreover, they should have considered the very real possibility that things could go wrong and that he'd be back. The deaths of innocents was unintentional, but an indirect result of their actions.

(Incidentally, other indirect results of their actions included the removal and demise of a brutal tyrant, the freeing of slaves and slave species, the rescue of a sentient species trapped out of their element, and the freeing of the Silver Surfer -- though some might but the last in the "bad" category. If we impute the destruction caused by the warp core breach into their sins, so we should impute the positive results.)

The Hulk's anger can be seen as justifiable, but his methods in achieving his goal of retribution on the four are monstrous. Threatening to flatten Mahattan, threatening to pummel the heck out of the entire world does not endear me to his cause. The four were not justified, but killing innocents to get rid of them is as bad as killing innocents in an attempt to remove the Hulk from Earth.

So I'm with Namor when he essentially says, "You're all a bunch of idiots for bringing this Hell upon us. Also, you're an idiot if you help him out. Get out of my ocean." Except I'm not in the ocean.

[Ninja Squirrel]

im not clear on the details, but did the illuminati just trick hulk into getting into space, with the intention of him dying soemwhere?

either way, i want to see tony dead. most prefably with reed tossed in with the collateral damage. and sentry fighting a long way with the hulk, then realising the hulk is justified to a certain extent, and leave him to rampage his way to reed. darn registration supporters. capt killers!

however, i would prefer for strange, bolt to be relatively unharmed. too late for bolt, but strange still has a chance. xavier should be revealed as a skrull as an excuse to absolve him of the things he did to vulcan :smallbiggrin:

[Hushdawg]

I had planned on staying out of the whole WWH thing since Civil War just ended and I'll be moving overseas before WWH ends; but there it was, smack in the middle of my Ghost Rider.

*sigh*

Now, of course, I'll be compelled to buy the TPB when it comes out.

[Dalenthas]

Hulk needs his ass kicked, and he needs Iron Man to do it. Partially so everyone stops dissing Shell-head, and partially because the Hulk is a freaking monster.

[nothingclever]

Hulk needs his ass kicked, and he needs Iron Man to do it. Partially so everyone stops dissing Shell-head, and partially because the Hulk is a freaking monster.But he's a monster who helped beat villians like Onslaught.

[Griemont]

Hulk needs his ass kicked, and he needs Iron Man to do it. Partially so everyone stops dissing Shell-head, and partially because the Hulk is a freaking monster.

Yeah, why does every hate Iron Man in the first place? :smallmad: While mainly a fan of his earlier stories (around the time of the Avengers and such), I think that Iron Man represents what, in many stories, comic or otherwise, is the antagonist. It was said best during Civil War, where he supported the government and tried to find a way to work things out between superheroes and the common man rather than constantly rebel against authority. He seems to be one of the few people who actually respects the American government, but people seem to hate him for it. :smallannoyed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/IM78.jpg

Anyway, I think that the Hulk should have been exiled, as he was too volatile and uncontrollable (and pretty freakin powerful when mad :smallwink:) and him coming back to Earth and bascially tearing it apart just for revenge only serves to prove that.

[Ninja Squirrel]

i dun like tony cuz hes a scheming evil guy who got capt killed. hes turning into some maniacal dictator" my way or the highway" kind of guy.

[Holy_Knight]

Oh, by the way; whatever they find to do to de-power and kill Hulk - I sure hope they do it AFTER he shreds Tony Stark.... bastard deserves it for getting Cap killed.

Sounds good to me. Stupid Tony.



At any rate I just want to watch the Hulk crush Iron Man into the Iron Basketball and play hoops with him.

Hee! :smallbiggrin:

[Ashdate]

You see, that's what I don't get. Why on earth would Richard put a nuke on the Hulk's ship? Is it beyond the brains of one of the smartest men on earth to come up with something less...destructive? Heck, even setting a fuse to blow once the ship reaches its destination would have worked.

He put a nuke on the ship because... REED RICHARDS IS A SKRULL!

You hear it here first! Unless you've heard it somewhere else before.

- Eddie

[Foeofthelance]

Actually, I can't be sure, as I didn't read the comics themselves and have only seen the thing in flashbacks, but either it was a core malfunction of the engine which then exploded, or it was a failsafe device meant to keep Banner/Hulk from repairing the ship and returning to Earth. I sort of favor the second theory, only because it doesn't make much sense for a malfunction to have lasted as long with out going detected or going off. But yeah, blowing up the ship to keep Banner from fixing it? That makes sense. Especially since they probably doubted it would kill him.

[GoC]

Why is Hulk considered such a threat?
He needs either all of:
Resistance to magic (Dr. Strange who needs to wear some magic armor or cast Stoneskin on himself)
Resistance to telepathy (Prof. X & co)
Resistance to TK or able to fly (Jean Grey&other TKers)
Or one of:
Speed (to catch someone in order to actualy land a hit or they'd just go away and plan or attack from range)
Stealth (ambushes)
Large empire (send minions to attack)
Ranged attacks
In order to be a real threat.

And his offensive potential is small as no matter how strong he gets his punches aren't going to do more damage than your average train.

Discuss please.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

He's coming with an invasion force armed with better tech then Earth's militaries. I believe that means he qualifies.

[Ashdate]

Why is Hulk considered such a threat?
He needs either all of:
Resistance to magic (Dr. Strange who needs to wear some magic armor or cast Stoneskin on himself)

Stoneskin wouldn't stop the Hulk at all; Even if his fists aren't considered adamantide weapons, his strength bonus alone would probably be much much higher then a meager DR 20/adamantide could protect from.



Resistance to telepathy (Prof. X & co)

The hulk possesses several different psyches and personalities. I would imagine it would be very hard to subdue the Hulk unless you were Professor X.


Resistance to TK or able to fly (Jean Grey&other TKers)
The Hulk can jump 1000 miles in a single leap. Flying ain't going to do you any good.


Or one of:
Speed (to catch someone in order to actualy land a hit or they'd just go away and plan or attack from range)
Stealth (ambushes)
Large empire (send minions to attack)
Ranged attacks
In order to be a real threat.

The thing you're missing is that there are VERY few things that can actaully harm the Hulk, and even then he's got an amazing healing factor (that is as good or even rivals Wolverines). Why does he need Stealth or Speed, when he's got inevitably. Unless you're the Sentry, you probably don't stand much of a chance against him.


And his offensive potential is small as no matter how strong he gets his punches aren't going to do more damage than your average train.

Discuss please.

Maybe you're joking? The Hulk, when angry enough, has been shown to do INCREDIBLE feats of strength. He once held up a 150 BILLION ton mountain side (with leverage) during the first Secret War. Name many comic book beings that can do that. His strength is potentially bigger then Superman's; Your average train as nothing on the strength of the Hulk.

- Eddie

[Emperor Tippy]

And the hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier. And the Hulk is very angry right now.

[13_CBS]

Holy crap, I just read on Wiki that BLACK BOLT got his butt handed to him by the Hulk on a silver plattter.

:smalleek:

In anycase, I support the survival of Hulk, if only because we need someone big and green to smash things.

[Foeofthelance]

Why is Hulk considered such a threat?
He needs either all of:
Resistance to magic (Dr. Strange who needs to wear some magic armor or cast Stoneskin on himself)
Resistance to telepathy (Prof. X & co)
Resistance to TK or able to fly (Jean Grey&other TKers)
Or one of:
Speed (to catch someone in order to actualy land a hit or they'd just go away and plan or attack from range)
Stealth (ambushes)
Large empire (send minions to attack)
Ranged attacks
In order to be a real threat.

And his offensive potential is small as no matter how strong he gets his punches aren't going to do more damage than your average train.

Further points to bring up:

Jean Grey is currently unavailable, as she is currently managing the universe. There aren't really any TKs in her class left, except her daughter. Unfortunately, Rachael is now currently running around the Shi'ar empire with Havok and Polaris, so is unavailable to save the world at the moment. From the looks of things in the X-Men crossover, Xavier is going to sit this one out.

I doubt he's going after Doc Strange with out the Warbound at his side. Doc Strange right now is the only real threat to the Hulk at the moment, and the Hulk knows it. So he'll bring his friends to the fight.

Physically Hulk is capable of going after any one incapable of leaving the atmosphere. Trying to out run him is impracticle. Out maneouver, possibly, depending on who's involved. But even then, they need to keep getting lucky to avoid getting hit, where as Hulk just needs to get in one lucky shot.

As for the Empire thing, Hulk already has that. Not only did he bring his Warbound with him from Sarkaar, providing a group of trained combat specialists, but when he got to Earth the second thing he did (first being smashing Tony a good one) was run into a group of people who offered to help. He's got at a group of to the death Warriors, at least one of whom is a hive queen of some sort, (Heroes for Hire and Frontline have both been showing the minions there.) and he's got people on Earth taking up his side of the fight? I'm actually afraid to read the next few Avengers issues, because I know some of those kids are going to die, in a horrible and bloody manner. I just hope its not Cloud Nine, she seems kind of cool.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and he'll probably have Ghost Rider on his side as well. After all, GR is the spirit of Vengenance.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ironically, despite the big-ness of this cross-over, I can't find much on Wikipeida, except in scattered pieces.

And everyone hates Iron Man now 'cause he got Cap killed. And because everyone hates the real US government, and Tony supports the comic-book one.

Oh, and GoC?
Magic Resistance: Yes, he has this. I think that short of teleporting him somewhere, Dr. Strange can't do much to hurt him.
Telepathy: True, but where are the big telepaths? Jean and Rachel Gray are apparently out in space, I thought Charles was de-powered (poor dude) and with Emma Frost it's not clear if she's strong and skilled or average and skilled.
TK: That won't help, short of omega-level stuff. Hulk will break forcefields and attempts to hold him.

Speed: Hulk is fast enough that he can catch most people short of Quicksilver- maybe. You can't just 'hit him and run away'.
Minions: Useless. Hulk smash puny no-name redshirts! Anyway, he has minions now.
Ranged Attacks: uh...how about a truck flung at mach 3 or so? That a ranged weapon enough for you?

[Griemont]

How did Iron Man get Cap killed? :smallmad:

Please don't tell me it's because of Bucky's idea that Iron Man started the whole thing and that's the reason that Cap's dead. :smallannoyed:

[13_CBS]

Hmm...according to Wiki, the Infinity Gems are still in the possession of the Illuminati: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Gems

Do any of you think that, if pressed enough, the members of the illuminati will whip out the Infinity Gems to take out Hulk? I can imagine either Richards whipping out the Power gem to go with Hulk mano-a-mano or Iron Man to do something reality bending with his gem.

[Emperor Tippy]

I doubt it. Not all of the Illuminati are against the hulk. This combined with their promise not to ever use the gems tends to make me believe that they won't.

[kpenguin]

How did Iron Man get Cap killed? :smallmad:

Please don't tell me it's because of Bucky's idea that Iron Man started the whole thing and that's the reason that Cap's dead. :smallannoyed:

He didn't, but everyone in Marvel suspects that Tony was somehow involved and everyone in the real world wants him to be invloved because of the current popular sentiment towards him.

[GoC]

Stoneskin wouldn't stop the Hulk at all; Even if his fists aren't considered adamantide weapons, his strength bonus alone would probably be much much higher then a meager DR 20/adamantide could protect from.
I meant to prevent him getting stabbed by random people.


The hulk possesses several different psyches and personalities. I would imagine it would be very hard to subdue the Hulk unless you were Professor X.
Professor X is a member of the ilumnati. And with some help he might be able to break through Hulks defences.


The Hulk can jump 1000 miles in a single leap. Flying ain't going to do you any good.
Flight would be neccessary to prevent some TKer just holding him in the air helpless.


The thing you're missing is that there are VERY few things that can actaully harm the Hulk, and even then he's got an amazing healing factor (that is as good or even rivals Wolverines). Why does he need Stealth or Speed, when he's got inevitably. Unless you're the Sentry, you probably don't stand much of a chance against him.
He's fairly easy to avoid though. They just avoid him until they figure out how to stop him.


Maybe you're joking? The Hulk, when angry enough, has been shown to do INCREDIBLE feats of strength. He once held up a 150 BILLION ton mountain side (with leverage) during the first Secret War. Name many comic book beings that can do that. His strength is potentially bigger then Superman's; Your average train as nothing on the strength of the Hulk.
In terms of damage done extra strength doesn't help. When talking about punches strength only defines how much of your weight you can put into a punch. Of course if he's trying to rip you in half or crush you then it's a different story but that requires a grapple.


Magic Resistance: Yes, he has this. I think that short of teleporting him somewhere, Dr. Strange can't do much to hurt him.

He can also be immobilized, put to sleep, transformed into Banner (or other Hulk manifestations), or pacified against his will, either by the use of magic or by the powers of certain superhuman individuals (such as the radiation emitted by the Missing Link, the psionic abilities of a high-level telepath like Professor X, or the powers of Robert Reynolds, the Sentry).


Telepathy: True, but where are the big telepaths? Jean and Rachel Gray are apparently out in space, I thought Charles was de-powered (poor dude) and with Emma Frost it's not clear if she's strong and skilled or average and skilled.
Xavier has got his powers back.


TK: That won't help, short of omega-level stuff. Hulk will break forcefields and attempts to hold him.
You can't "break" a single force applied in the upwards direction on your chest.
Anyone capable of lifting about 100 tons (that's how much the Hulk wieghs right?) can just keep him aloft. There's nothing to break out of.


Speed: Hulk is fast enough that he can catch most people short of Quicksilver- maybe. You can't just 'hit him and run away'.
So he's faster than a speeding car or a jet? Wow, I thought that while he can beat olimpic level athletes mach 3 was beyond him


Ranged Attacks: uh...how about a truck flung at mach 3 or so? That a ranged weapon enough for you?
Since when can the Hulk move his arms at mach 3?


He's coming with an invasion force armed with better tech then Earth's militaries. I believe that means he qualifies.
Hmm... true.
It's his army that's the big threat not green dude himself then...
But don't those "secret" government organizations have good tech too?
And couldn't Reed Richards do what he's done in the past and invent some deus ex machina "render Warbounds unconcious" gas?

[Tekren]

I, for one, favor the Illuminati. They weren't intending to send him to a war-torn world, they were intending to a place where he would be left alone, where Banner and the Hulk could have some peace and quiet.

The rod to hell is paved with good intentions, I know. But, still...

The Hulk is neither a hero or a villain- he is a neutral force. The strongest force there was for a long while, (sentry may beat him on that count) but still neutral. He has saved the earth on several occasions. He has also caused many unnecessary deaths. That means he deserves something better than the negative zone prison, but he can't be allowed to roam free. Just imagine banner getting cut off, turning in to the hulk, and then turning the entire freeway into a junk yard. Anger really doesn't have a sense of scale.

Imagine the last time you got angry at a stranger who cut you off, the waiter who pissed you off, the guy on Fox news, whatever. Anger flashes white-hot, and then fades. Acting on that anger means you have to deal with what you have done after the anger fades.

The Hulk never fails to act.

I remember many Hulk comics where all he wanted was to be left alone. The Illuminati tried to put him somewhere where that would be true for the rest of his days. The fact that they tricked him into it was mean, but their failure to do what they meant to created Hulks rage. That the ship was designed to blow if tampered with was a reasonable precaution, designed to stop the Hulk from coming back. It destroyed Hulks world and sealed his anger.

He has a right to be angry, but even the Illuminati were handed over to him, what would he do? Kill people who tried to help him and the world- but failed? Torture them? Eat them? Sure he may be justified in his anger, but violence is a circle- he'll just create problems for himself. The thing that bothers me is NO ONE KNOWS WHY THE HULK IS SO MAD. He hasn't explained anything about where he has been or what has happened to him.

He went straight to 'hulk smash'

Comparing the net good that the hulk has done vs the net good that the Illuminati has done, I would rather have the Illuminati be standing at the end.

[Dalenthas]

Um, in IM #19 he appears as a giant hologram in Times Square and pretty well tells why he's so mad. And Tony goes "Yup, my bad, everybody stand back, I'll go first. I don't want anybody else getting hurt if they don't have to."

[....]

Just as an aside, I hope Logan trys to stop Hulk...

And Hulk finally discovers how much force it takes to snap adamantium bones.

[TreesOfDeath]

Stupid question, but could Rogue stop the hulk with her draining powers?

[....]

I think, since he's got infinite anger, that Rogue would just absorb and absorb and absorb (like that crappy movie we pretend dosn't exist) and Hulk would smush her head while she yelled or something.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Conversely, since she'd be absorbing his powers, she'd find them utterly meaningless without the sheer unbridled rage that Banner keeps locked up in the back of his psyche. That strength is dependant on anger.

[....]

Is it conceivable that Hulk will just get really pissed and tear the earth in half?

[JabberwockySupafly]

The Hulk also has an axe to grind with Hollywood. You know, for the Hulk movie. If I was a super strong, unkillable monster with no self control and someone made a movie about me that was that terrible, I'd smash them to bits.



*Gets out two large planks of wood, a crown of thorns, a spear, and 3 nine-inch nails*

Just getting ready to get crucified for the following statement:


I liked The Hulk Movie by Ang Lee. It was done in way that gives insight into why Bruce Banner was so messed up, and why he had such rage control issues. Hulk 2.0 promises to be fun in that crush-things-and-they-go-boom way, but really, Ang lee's Hulk was a brilliant piece of art that gave insight into the characters. I like intelligent character driven stories, which is why, I think, for the most part I read Dark Horse & Vertigo. I watch most of the current comic book movies out there, and to be honest, they bore me to death. Spiderman 1,2, & 3? Nice,pretty, popcorn fun.I won't watch it again. Fantastic Four 1 & 2, Ghost Rider? Same thing. They're all style, no substance. Hellboy & Sin City were both good, but otherwise i'm no fan of comic book adaptations. The only "comic book (I use the term loosely, because it's actually a novel)" movie I'm looking forward to is Neil Gaiman's Stardust.

But, as for being on-topic? I hope Hulk smashes the bejesus out of those smarmy brainiacs for what they did. Did they ever consider maybe discussing it with the Hulk? I mean, he has still the brain of Bruce Banner, right (I haven't read Marvel in a long time, so i don't know if they've retconned that continuum or not)? So the guy's bright enough to understand the implications of his further existance on the planet, and that by him going somewhere else of his own volition it would make him look more like a hero than a threat. Plus, if he left on good terms, they could always ask him to come back later if they needed his help with some world-shattering event. But, well, that wouldn't have made for a fun HULK SMASH miniseries, now would it?

[....]

*Gets out two large planks of wood, a crown of thorns, a spear, and 3 nine-inch nails*

Just getting ready to get crucified for the following statement:


I liked The Hulk Movie by Ang Lee. It was done in way that gives insight into why Bruce Banner was so messed up, and why he had such rage control issues. Hulk 2.0 promises to be fun in that crush-things-and-they-go-boom way, but really, Ang lee's Hulk was a brilliant piece of art that gave insight into the characters. I like intelligent character driven stories, which is why, I think, for the most part I read Dark Horse & Vertigo. I watch most of the current comic book movies out there, and to be honest, they bore me to death. Spiderman 1,2, & 3? Nice,pretty, popcorn fun.I won't watch it again. Fantastic Four 1 & 2, Ghost Rider? Same thing. They're all style, no substance. Hellboy & Sin City were both good, but otherwise i'm no fan of comic book adaptations. The only "comic book (I use the term loosely, because it's actually a novel)" movie I'm looking forward to is Neil Gaiman's Stardust.

These would all be really good points if the Ang Lee movie did any of these things, but it didn't.

The depictions of Bruce's father's abuse were not very graphic, the movie made it seem as if Daddy Banner slapped his mom once and then accidentaly stabbed her. While this is a horrible thing to go though, it hardly gives you and endless reserve of white hot seething hatred at the entire world.

Furthermore, the characters were hardly realistic. You can see that by the complete lack of suprise everyone has when it turns out Bruce turns into a giant green monster when he gets pissed. No one ever expresses doubt or shock, they just sort of shrug and get on with it.

Bruce himself didn't seem to care much about his changing either. Instead of focusing on the really awesome dynamic of Banner and the monster inside of him's relationship, Lee throws out some vague love story and a mildly distasteful father that Bruce dosn't even recognize when he sees him (I'm pretty sure that if the memory of my mother's death was the reason I had unending rage, I'd remember the face of her killer).

And the Hulk speaks once. The title character of that movie was completely downplayed. That alone ruins it.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

A side note for all the Illuminati sympathizers- you realize they're presently responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents and ruining an entire planet? It was their ship that caused such cataclysmic devastation on Sakaar. It may not have been intentional, but neither is every time the Hulk has a temper tantrum- temper tantrums that have caused far less destruction COMBINED.

Before you start rooting for the Illuminati, keep in mind that they're mass murderers now several levels above the Hulk.

[Grod_The_Giant]

GoC, this is from Wikipedia:

The Hulk has also been shown shattering an asteroid twice the size of Earth with a single punch. The Hulk possesses highly developed leg muscles and is able to leap several miles at a time. Since the Hulk's strength increases with anger, he is able to leap distances much greater than he normally could while in a "calm" state. For instance, he has been shown covering a distance of 1,000 miles in a single leap and even leaping into a low-Earth orbit. There are examples of the Leader and Doc Samson attempting, unsuccessfully, to measure the limits of the Hulk's strength using the advanced technology at their disposal.

With TK, I'm under the impression that if a psion attempts to restrain someone with it, and fails, they get hit by some kind of psychic backlash. I know I've seen this before. As for holding him in the air...this might work for a short while, but...then what? you can't hold him there infinetly, and he'll get REALLY mad when he can't do anything. Like, to the point where he'll tear someone in half.

Also:
Professor Xaiver commented that although previous versions' minds were "difficult to control," War Hulk's psyche was invulnerable to even his influence, although he was able to probe War Hulk's memories.

Hulk doesn't weigh 100 tons...that's WAY more then a tank. 1 ton, maybe. MAYBE.

Strength DOES help in damage. I don't know where you got the idea it doesn't. If you take an olympic-class bodybuilder and a normal guy with some martial arts training, the weightlifter is going to hit harder. Even if you're going by D&D rules, strength is added to damage.

The truck thing was exageration, but consider this: Quicksilver- who can/could hit what? Mach 5 or so?- could do that by superhuman strength in his legs. How strong is the Hulk again? At his peak, he supported a 150 billion ton mountain range and broke through Onslaught's armor.


Hulk, go for it. Beat the **** out of those damned Illuminati...just don't endanger too many people. Because then you cross from 'guy seeking righteous revenge' to 'rampaging super-villain'...and the all-powerful Plot will be against you.

[zeratul]

Dude, he went insane and killed a bunch of people in Vegas. One mans suffering isn't as bad as the suffering of many. I say nuke the hulk, he's to dangerous to be kept alive.

[GoC]

With TK, I'm under the impression that if a psion attempts to restrain someone with it, and fails, they get hit by some kind of psychic backlash. I know I've seen this before. As for holding him in the air...this might work for a short while, but...then what? you can't hold him there infinetly, and he'll get REALLY mad when he can't do anything. Like, to the point where he'll tear someone in half.
Hold him there long enough for Stark to put a nice levitation device or a big fan pointing up under him.


Hulk doesn't weigh 100 tons...that's WAY more then a tank. 1 ton, maybe. MAYBE.
Even easier.


Strength DOES help in damage. I don't know where you got the idea it doesn't. If you take an olympic-class bodybuilder and a normal guy with some martial arts training, the weightlifter is going to hit harder. Even if you're going by D&D rules, strength is added to damage.
I said strength only changes how much of your wieght you can put into a punch. For ordinary people who can barely lift there own body weight a doubling in strength will equal a large increase (+80% as a guestimate) in damage but when you get to Hulk/Superman/Sentry level extra strength won't help much. Superman and Sentry's punches would do some really damage due to their speed.
In fact a person with infinite strength will do the same amount of damage in a punch as if a solid pole of his same wieght and with the ends having the same shape and size as his fist was thrown towards his target at the same speed his fist would normaly move (10m/s IIRC).
This is basic newtonian physics but if you feel unconfortable with it I would be happy to clarify things.


The truck thing was exageration, but consider this: Quicksilver- who can/could hit what? Mach 5 or so?- could do that by superhuman strength in his legs. How strong is the Hulk again? At his peak, he supported a 150 billion ton mountain range
The force he applies on it obviously diminishes as his fist goes faster otherwise he could also run really fast: sqrt(150_billion_tons/wieght_average_human_can_support)*speed_average_hu man_can_run or about... 3,000,000 m/s:smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

More physics ^
And yes I am a physics geek.:smalltongue:

[Viscount Einstrauss]

The Hulk happens to have superhuman speed, no doubt due to how powerful his muscles have to be. So your equations are going to be off. No, no one really seems to know just how fast he is, it's never been mentioned directly. Besides, physics don't exist in comics. If they did, the Hulk could devastate any city just by doing a few of his several mile-high jumps in one. The impact from such a thing would be like dropping a bomb.

To Zeratul, I counter again- this means that the Illuminati all deserve a horrible, horrible death for committing genocide with their actions. Five men's suffering isn't as bad as the suffering of an entire planet populated with intelligent life, I say Hulk Smash the vain fools :P

[GoC]

The Hulk happens to have superhuman speed, no doubt due to how powerful his muscles have to be. So your equations are going to be off. No, no one really seems to know just how fast he is, it's never been mentioned directly.
I have never seen or heard from any source that his "super speed" is anything more than a car cruising along a highway. That is the fastest I've ever heard of him running.


Besides, physics don't exist in comics. If they did, the Hulk could devastate any city just by doing a few of his several mile-high jumps in one. The impact from such a thing would be like dropping a bomb.
But newtonian physics (and in fact most of physics) is based upon Conservation of momentum! Take away that and I shudder to think what would happen to reality.:smalleek:

And it couldn't be that big an explosion, let me calculate::smalltongue:
Hulk can jump d meters high.
Hulk weighs M kg.
Air resistance is negligable (assuming he weighs as much as I think he does).

t=sqrt(d/4.9)
v=9.8*t
Ke=(M*v^2)/2=M*d*9.8

Using M=5000 and d=2000 we have... 98,000,000 J or about 20kg of TNT.
A fairly small bomb. Not big enough to do more than blow up small buildings.


To Zeratul, I counter again- this means that the Illuminati all deserve a horrible, horrible death for committing genocide with their actions. Five men's suffering isn't as bad as the suffering of an entire planet populated with intelligent life, I say Hulk Smash the vain fools :P
A freak accident is noone's fault. A temper tantrum definitely is.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

It's not always mentioned that he's fast, but there's plenty of hints in, say, his jumping ability. If his legs are capable of propelling him into orbit, then he's going to be superhumanly fast when running with those same legs. Maybe not speedster-quick, but definitely far above human potential.

[Foeofthelance]

And it couldn't be that big an explosion, let me calculate:
Hulk can jump d meters high.
Hulk weighs M kg.
Air resistance is negligable (assuming he weighs as much as I think he does).

t=sqrt(d/4.9)
v=9.8*t
Ke=(M*v^2)/2=M*d*9.8

Using M=5000 and d=2000 we have... 98,000,000 J or about 20kg of TNT.
A fairly small bomb. Not big enough to do more than blow up small buildings

GoC, the only problem I can find with those calculations is that velocity seems to remain constant for the falling body, when Hulk should be accelerating as he falls. I doubt he's going to hit terminal velocity at only 2 Km up, but by the time he hits he should still be going much faster then a mere 9.8 m/(s^2).

[mudbunny]

In fact a person with infinite strength will do the same amount of damage in a punch as if a solid pole of his same wieght and with the ends having the same shape and size as his fist was thrown towards his target at the same speed his fist would normaly move (10m/s IIRC).
This is basic newtonian physics but if you feel unconfortable with it I would be happy to clarify things.

Actually, it won't. As soon as the rod hits something, there will be loss of momentum, as the kinetic energy from the rod is used up to start the person moving.

A person with infinite strength, once they hit the person, can continue to apply force to their fist, resulting in no loss of kinetic energy in their arm, and a resulting higher kinetic energy in the person they are hitting.

[mudbunny]

GoC, the only problem I can find with those calculations is that velocity seems to remain constant for the falling body, when Hulk should be accelerating as he falls. I doubt he's going to hit terminal velocity at only 2 Km up, but by the time he hits he should still be going much faster then a mere 9.8 m/(s^2).

9.8 m/(s^2) is not the velocity, it is the acceleration due to gravity.

[Foeofthelance]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foeofthelance
GoC, the only problem I can find with those calculations is that velocity seems to remain constant for the falling body, when Hulk should be accelerating as he falls. I doubt he's going to hit terminal velocity at only 2 Km up, but by the time he hits he should still be going much faster then a mere 9.8 m/(s^2).
9.8 m/(s^2) is not the velocity, it is the acceleration due to gravity.

That was what I was trying to point out, though thanks for the correction on terms. Probably helps, no? What I was trying to say is that was that GoC used the rate of acceleration as a constant velocity, instead of figuring out what the Hulk's velocity would have been at point of impact. If he was going only 9.8 m/s after falling for 2000 m, then he must have been bouncing off of plenty of things on his way down.

[mudbunny]

That was what I was trying to point out, though thanks for the correction on terms. Probably helps, no? What I was trying to say is that was that GoC used the rate of acceleration as a constant velocity, instead of figuring out what the Hulk's velocity would have been at point of impact. If he was going only 9.8 m/s after falling for 2000 m, then he must have been bouncing off of plenty of things on his way down.

Ahhh, sorry.

Anyways, the proper formula to use would be

E=0.5mv^2

E = Energy (in Joules)
m=mass (in kilograms)
v=velocity upon impact (in meters per second)

Once you do the calculations, your response is in kg·m²/s², which is the same as Joules.

According to Wikipedia - Kinetic Projectiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile#Kinetic_projectiles), TNT has energy in the range of 4.6 MJ/kg, whereas a kinetic kill vehicle with a closing speed of 10 km/s has 50 MJ/kg.

Assuming that the Hulk fell from near-earth Orbit, he would hit terminal velocity at around 200 km/h if he was in maximum wind-resistance position. If we assume that he is going to try to go faster, he would probably go feet first or head-first. Let's assume that he ends up hitting 1000 km/h (world record is 982 km/h) That works out to .2778 km/s, or a kinetic energy of .0386 J/kg, or about 1.2 x 10^8 times weaker than the same mass of TNT.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Bah, physics, I mostly support the Hulk because he's acquired that natty purple cloak.

[Logic]

(like that crappy [Hulk] movie we pretend dosn't exist).

*Gets out two large planks of wood, a crown of thorns, a spear, and 3 nine-inch nails*

Just getting ready to get crucified for the following statement:


I liked The Hulk Movie by Ang Lee. It was done in way that gives insight into why Bruce Banner was so messed up, and why he had such rage control issues. Hulk 2.0 promises to be fun in that crush-things-and-they-go-boom way, but really, Ang lee's Hulk was a brilliant piece of art that gave insight into the characters. I like intelligent character driven stories, which is why, I think, for the most part I read Dark Horse & Vertigo. I watch most of the current comic book movies out there, and to be honest, they bore me to death. Spiderman 1,2, & 3? Nice,pretty, popcorn fun.I won't watch it again. Fantastic Four 1 & 2, Ghost Rider? Same thing. They're all style, no substance. Hellboy & Sin City were both good, but otherwise i'm no fan of comic book adaptations. The only "comic book (I use the term loosely, because it's actually a novel)" movie I'm looking forward to is Neil Gaiman's Stardust.

I loved the Hulk Movie, and truthfully, it sticks to the spirit of the character better than most comic book movies.

The Hulk movie was a great adaptation of the spirit of the Hulk comics. It was not a Spiderman, or a Ghost Rider, because Hulk really is Bruce Banner's worst enemy for a long time. When part of you is your own worst enemy, a character driven story is the best way to show that off.

Look at all the other superhero movies that have been deemed mass market successes, because they had a clear villian, and with a clear villian, you get fight scenes, and that is what most people expect out of a comic book movie.

Spiderman 1, 2, & 3 were all suited specifically to a large audiance. There is a little bit of everything there for everyone. Drama, action, and character development.

Same goes for X-Men.

What did the Hulk lack?

A clear nemesis. For most of the movie, he is running from or fighting an army of faceless goons. It isn't until late in the movie that he is fighting somone that is really a match for him, and the fight doesn't last very long.

[Wojiz]

I loved the Hulk Movie, and truthfully, it sticks to the spirit of the character better than most comic book movies.

The Hulk movie was a great adaptation of the spirit of the Hulk comics. It was not a Spiderman, or a Ghost Rider, because Hulk really is Bruce Banner's worst enemy for a long time. When part of you is your own worst enemy, a character driven story is the best way to show that off.

Look at all the other superhero movies that have been deemed mass market successes, because they had a clear villian, and with a clear villian, you get fight scenes, and that is what most people expect out of a comic book movie.

Spiderman 1, 2, & 3 were all suited specifically to a large audiance. There is a little bit of everything there for everyone. Drama, action, and character development.

Same goes for X-Men.

What did the Hulk lack?

A clear nemesis. For most of the movie, he is running from or fighting an army of faceless goons. It isn't until late in the movie that he is fighting somone that is really a match for him, and the fight doesn't last very long.

...And, um, that's why it was a terrible movie. The plot was so vague and abstract and littered with random flashbacks that don't ever really account for his past at all that it was difficult to stay interested. Moreover, when we actually saw the Hulk, he was running away from nameless, faceless soldiers until the climax. There was no buildup, there wasn't a defined beginning, middle and end, the attempt to explain the Hulk's internal conflicts were only adequate if you were a Hulk fan to begin with, and for something marketed as an action movie, there was remarkably little action.

[Logos7]

As a big hulk fan i was hoping for something i'd recognize more in that movie.

my two words after that movie were F*** nanites

I am hoping that the next hulk movie is much better

as for rthe comment on why everyone hates iron man here's the thing for me at least

I love Iron Man,

I hate tony stark

for a couple of reasons, I find his portrayal of alcoholism trite and cliche
I find that batman with a mech suit gets real old real soon
The Guys a Dinkus

but on the other hand I rearlly must recomend hyper velocity, i really much enjoyed it ( its a hard thingi to admit when the man's clothes are more interesting than the man )

L

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Try Ultimate Iron Man. I loved the twists they put on him, and the Ultimate mech suits are really fantastic looking on the whole. Plus, the Ultimate series has yet to try turning Iron Man into a villain yet. I really sort of hate how obsessed 616 is with making him a bad guy.

[GoC]

Let's assume conservation of energy (It certainly won't hurt your case):
M=mass of Hulk
M+m=mass of rod
m=mass of Hulk's arm
W=mass of target
v=velocity of Hulk's arm=velocity of rod
v1=velocity of Hulk's arm (or rod) immediately after collision
v2=velocity of target immediately after collision
d=length of Hulk's arm

Ke of bar=(1/2)*(M+m)*v^2
minimum energy transfered by bar can be found by solving:
(M+m)*v=(M+m)*v1+W*v2
v2=v1 (from minimum energy)
Which gives:
v1=v*(M+m)/(M+m+W)
and
Ke1=(1/2)*W*v1^2

When Hulk's arm hits the target:
mv=mv1+Wv2
v1=v2 (Arm and target connected)
Solving gives:
v1=v*m/(m+W)

Now a force F (approaching oo) is applied on the target and due to newton's 3rd law on Hulk's body:

. . . .F F
<----- --->
_____ ____ _______
|HULK|ARM|TARGET|
------ ---- ---------

v3=Arm-target velocity=v1+(F/(m+W))*t
v4=Hulk's velocity=-(F/M)*t

However as Hulk's arm can't move faster than v relative to his body:
v3+v4<=v which implies:
v1+t*F*(M+m+W)/(M*(m+W))<=v
as F->oo then t->0 and v3+v4=v3 for the entire time:
t=(v-v1)*M*(m+W)/(F*(M+m+W))->0
v3=v1+(v-v1)*M/(M+m+W)=(v1*m+v1*W+v*M)/(M+m+W)
. =v*(m+M)/(M+m+W)
v4=(v-v1)*(m+W)/(M+m+W)

As Ke2=(1/2)*W*v3^2=Ke1

So I'm right.:smalltongue:

Please point out any errors found.

[mudbunny]

You are correct, if you assume that the initial instant of contact is the only instant of contact. Unless it is a perfectly elastic collision (which I don't think that we can assume) there will be a period of time that the rod (or arm) is travelling in contact with the target.

2 - The kinetic energy of the rod immediately before the start of the collision is the maximum kinetic energy that the combination that the rod and target can have. The combination of Hulk's arm and target, on the other hand, have a continual force of the Hulk pushing behind it. Unless he is standing on a slippery surface, he more than likely has some traction, and will be able to continue pushing through the target. As a result, the velocity of his arm after contact with the target will not drop as much, and the energy transferred to the target will be higher.

[....]

Hulk would smash all this physics crap if he saw it.

[Rare Pink Leech]

Hulk would smash all this physics crap if he saw it.

Agreed. For the most part, physics discussions don't belong in a comic book thread. It doesn't matter if Hulk's massive strength would stop adding any force to his punches after a certain point in the real world. In the Marvel Universe, which frequently flips the birdie at physics, the stronger you are, the harder you punch, which is why Hulk is gonna hurt you a lot more than Thor or Colossus.

[selfcritical]

Dude, he went insane and killed a bunch of people in Vegas. One mans suffering isn't as bad as the suffering of many. I say nuke the hulk, he's to dangerous to be kept alive.

About his hissy fit in vegas.

1) People have pinned deaths on the hulk before that he didn't cause, so there is precedent for this not being true. In fact, one of the storylines directly proceding planet hulk centers on such a manhunt.

2) Iron Man's armor gets taken over by evil forces a LOT. I mean a LOT. The damage that Tony stark causes by failing to secure his toy WMD that he keeps around for personal use vastly exceeds that of the hulks rampages. The armor has a verified body count in the thousands.

3) The sum total damage of Reed Richards poking his nose around other dimensions in the name of Science! counts in the billions of lives and the near total calapse of galactic culture. Way to poke the negative zone with a stick, jackass. Plus, when annhilus went on his giant rampage and reed got a very clear explanation of the situation from the super skrull, reed helped teleport him to his destination, and then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING(wtfomgbbq+1!!!) to mobilize the heroes of earth, or design a superweapon to take out annhilus' superweapon, or do anything other than ponder more efficient ways to prosecute his minor dispute among the heroes of north america. We'll total that loss as another few million.

[GoC]

You are correct, if you assume that the initial instant of contact is the only instant of contact. Unless it is a perfectly elastic collision (which I don't think that we can assume) there will be a period of time that the rod (or arm) is travelling in contact with the target.
Hmm...
Very hard to calculate. How much effect do you think this will have?


2 - The kinetic energy of the rod immediately before the start of the collision is the maximum kinetic energy that the combination that the rod and target can have. The combination of Hulk's arm and target, on the other hand, have a continual force of the Hulk pushing behind it. Unless he is standing on a slippery surface, he more than likely has some traction, and will be able to continue pushing through the target. As a result, the velocity of his arm after contact with the target will not drop as much, and the energy transferred to the target will be higher.

I put traction as negligable because most of repulsive force doesn't come from the ground but from his insane mass (due to the infinitisimal time the arm and the target are in contact). I don't think that the extra energy transfered will increase by more than 100%, do you?

[sealemon]

What did the Hulk lack?

A clear nemesis. For most of the movie, he is running from or fighting an army of faceless goons. It isn't until late in the movie that he is fighting somone that is really a match for him, and the fight doesn't last very long.

Actually, my problems with the Hulk movie were


1. They made Hulk's origin wayyy too complicated. It reminded me of Lucas' "explanation" of the Force as germs. In a movie, simpler is better.

2. The pacing was way off...too much sub plot, too much extra info (see point 2)

3. The movies version of The Absorbing Man was lame.

I actually thought they got his fight against the army right. They just took too long to build up to it. To dig at Lucas again, it was way to much Phantom Menance and not enough New Hope.

[mudbunny]

Hmm...
Very hard to calculate. How much effect do you think this will have?

Honestly, I don't know. Enough that I thinkknow that simple physics won't be sufficient to calculate it out. I am envisioning derivatives. Lots of derivatives. Keeping in mind that I chose chemistry for it's lack of derivatives and integrals, I am not even going to try to figure out what to do.


I put traction as negligable because most of repulsive force doesn't come from the ground but from his insane mass (due to the infinitisimal time the arm and the target are in contact). I don't think that the extra energy transfered will increase by more than 100%, do you?

No, it wouldn't double the amount of energy transferred, but the energy transferred would be more than that of the iron rod. That being said, there is also the mass of the target to consider. The more significant the inertia of the target, the more important is the fact that the Hulk can continue to exert force through the entire time he is in contact with the target.

[Jerthanis]

I put traction as negligable because most of repulsive force doesn't come from the ground but from his insane mass (due to the infinitisimal time the arm and the target are in contact). I don't think that the extra energy transfered will increase by more than 100%, do you?

As a martial artist, I can say this is kind of incorrect. Power in pretty much all your punches comes more from your legs than your mass. Jumpkicks, which would hold just as much mass as standing blows carry a lot less potential for damage, because their force is limited to the energy of their jump. Which is why you see a lot of them in movies and almost none of them in tournaments. Try standing in a wide stance and rotating your hips to throw a punch at a punching bag. Now try jumping at it with a fist extended. The amount of force you deliver on the first will be many, many times greater than the force you got from the jumping punch. So the idea of traction on the ground, and the idea of pushing at the target with both arms and legs is important.

While there might be a theoretical maximum amount of damage based on mass, I don't think it really applies in Hulk vs. Humanoid opponents, because that theoretical maximum would be used to determine if he can break alloyed metals and so on. Against humanoids, his strength is enough to violently displace them in space, whether it's a vehicle for delivering his mass as you suggest or simply a vehicle for raw energy based on pushing off the ground with his legs to deliver a punch as I believe. It doesn't really matter that there could exist a theoretical maximum value for punch damage, because until that point, increased strength = increased damage as I'm sure we can both agree (both of us, I'm sure, understanding that a weak boxer's punch to be less damaging than a strong boxer's punch, and that a fat man weighing 250 pounds wouldn't punch as hard as a 250 pound wall of muscle) and when we get up to theoretical maximum damage from mass, based on how strong normal people punch, the Hulk would punch hardest of all anyway.

[Kaelaroth]

How on Earth/N-Zone/White Hot Room etc. did you guys get to maths/physics/witchcraft? This is meant to be about World War Hulk: Whose Side Are You On?


In answer to the question at hand:
I feel some sympathy for Hulk, but in a way I think that the Illuminati were trying to do good by chucking him into.... deep space. Also, it contains Dr.Strange - the coolest man alive. So they MUST have been doing something right.

[mudbunny]

How on Earth/N-Zone/White Hot Room etc. did you guys get to maths/physics/witchcraft? This is meant to be about World War Hulk: Whose Side Are You On?

Thread drift happens.

As for the original question:

I am fully on the side of the Hulk. Remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Now having seen more of Planet Hulk and what the green guy has actually done so far in WWH, I have to give further support and props to the big green guy. This is not the same Hulk that was shuttled into a rocket and forced away from everything he ever knew and loved. Back then he was a lot like a giant, super powerful child.

Hulk is different now. He's grown up a lot thanks to Sakaar. He's become quite cunning and smart where he used to be thick and dumb. He's been a good leader capable of compassion in his role. Hulk fought for change, became changed, found peace, found love. He rightly earned a happily ever after even after the Illuminati had completely ruined his old life when they condemned him to space out of fear.

And then when he found all this, and might have lived to forgive the Illuminati and perhaps even thank them for sending him to Sakaar, the very ship that they ruined his past life with malfunctioned and destroyed the new life he had fought so hard for.

The Hulk needs to stop the Illuminati. It's their vanity that caused the deaths of millions of innocents under the Hulk's own protection. This is no longer personal. We also have yet to see what, exactly, he wants out of this besides punishing the Illuminati. He's avoiding civilian casualties, leading other heroes that agree with his cause, and he's yet to apparently kill Black Bolt and Iron Man despite having soundly defeated them in single, honorable combat.

The Hulk deserves his revenge. His self-control when this is so very evident to him is incredible and speaks volumes about the man he's become.

[Logic]

Try Ultimate Iron Man. I loved the twists they put on him, and the Ultimate mech suits are really fantastic looking on the whole. Plus, the Ultimate series has yet to try turning Iron Man into a villain yet. I really sort of hate how obsessed 616 is with making him a bad guy.

I hate the Ultimate Iron Man costume, but to each their own.

And since I have only gotten into comics that do not feature Spiderman or Batman in the last year or 2, I thought that his percieved villianry in Civil War was the first case, unless you count his dimension-hopping-double that tried to kill the Fantastic 4.

[akumadaimyo]

I'm reading Cable and Deadpool right now. I wonder if the World War Hulk will play into it eventually. They already had a Civil War tie in.

[Lord of the Helms]

Deadpool Smash, pt. II! :smallbiggrin:

[Grod_The_Giant]

unless you count his dimension-hopping-double that tried to kill the Fantastic 4.

aw, man, that dude was awesome.

[Finn Solomon]

The Hulk needs to stop the Illuminati. It's their vanity that caused the deaths of millions of innocents under the Hulk's own protection.

From doing what? When have the Illuminati ever sat down and consciously decided that yes, they wanted to kill millions of aliens? The explosion was an accident. Sending Hulk to that Sakaar planet in the first place was an accident. If we were all punished for the accidents we caused there wouldn't be anyone else alive on Earth.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

That wasn't a small oopsie. It was them playing with some rather destructive technology without completely thinking through the consequences of sending something that volatile into space which then caused the deaths of over a million people. When was the last time you accidentally made a highly explosive craft, jammed a potential danger into it, shot it randomly into space knowing full well that there are several populated planets out there, and ended up killing over a million people?

This isn't spilling milk.

[Logic]

I think that Hulk has a right to revenge, but collateral damage is not acceptable in my eyes.

Even if he is mad, he should try to be better than them by not bringing innocent civilians into the equation. I think that harming civilians is crossing the line.

Overall, I am all for Hulk getting his revenge, up until he harms someone that has nothing to do with the situation. (I think it would be forgivable for Hulk to harm someone that actively stands in his way of revenge.)

[Finn Solomon]

shot it randomly into space knowing full well that there are several populated planets out there, and ended up killing over a million people?

Of course it's volatile tech, but they're the Illuminati, the smartest minds on Earth. If they can't be trusted to handle things no one can. Besides, as far as I know the Illuminati never shot the Hulk randomly off into space, they intended for him to crash on an unpopulated planet where he couldn't hurt anybody.

[Rare Pink Leech]

Personally, I'm on the side of the editors who want to make this into the good, old fashioned hero brawl that Civil War was supposed to be. As long as we get some great action of superheroes beating the crap out of each other for a while, I'll be happy.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

And it never occured to the smartest minds on Earth that their technology could cause massive destruction or that, for whatever reason, the Hulk might not end up on the designated planet? Tell me, why didn't they bother checking that planet to make sure he was there? Why didn't they bother putting any form of tracking device on that ship to simply check that way? For such a supposed threat, they seemed to wash their hands of it the moment he got out of sight.

For being so smart, they were idiots about how they did all that. Just because they're smart and believe they're doing what's best doesn't mean they did.

[GoC]

And it never occured to the smartest minds on Earth that their technology could cause massive destruction or that, for whatever reason, the Hulk might not end up on the designated planet? Tell me, why didn't they bother checking that planet to make sure he was there? Why didn't they bother putting any form of tracking device on that ship to simply check that way? For such a supposed threat, they seemed to wash their hands of it the moment he got out of sight.

For being so smart, they were idiots about how they did all that. Just because they're smart and believe they're doing what's best doesn't mean they did.


It was a freak one-in-a-billion accident that noone could have predicted.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

One in a billion? They launched him into space and stopped paying attention two seconds later. All of the Illuminati knows that there's several, several populated planets in the universe and other sorts of intelligent life in between the stars. If nothing else, they should have checked to see if the ship was intercepted or if perhaps someone came to the planet the Hulk landed on thinking someone needed help. Besides that, being a rocket scientist, Reed Richards should have figured that there's all kinds of space debris that could have damaged that ship which couldn't be calculated for. They were being exceptionally irresponsible.

[Scientivore]

I'd expect some of the smartest people on the planet to know the Law of Truly Large Numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Truly_Large_Numbers). Simply put, if you have some possibilities that are individually incredibly improbable but you have a gigantic number of them, then it adds up to good odds that at least one of them will happen. That's one of the reasons why complexity can be such a trip: you rapidly increase the number of remote possibilities. Fun for writers, not so fun for engineers.

[Logic]

One in a billion? They launched him into space and stopped paying attention two seconds later. All of the Illuminati knows that there's several, several populated planets in the universe and other sorts of intelligent life in between the stars. If nothing else, they should have checked to see if the ship was intercepted or if perhaps someone came to the planet the Hulk landed on thinking someone needed help. Besides that, being a rocket scientist, Reed Richards should have figured that there's all kinds of space debris that could have damaged that ship which couldn't be calculated for. They were being exceptionally irresponsible.

The Illuminati would have been better off just throwing Hulk in the negative zone, assuming he couldn't get out somehow.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Basically, yeah. The Illuminati dropped the ball here. The ball happened to hit with quite a thud, and now a planet's ruined, over a million people are dead, and the Hulk is quite pissed and followed by a growing and powerful force.

That's quite some ball.

[Raiser Blade]

what do you guys think about the mystery bug invasion
going on at the same time

[Green Bean]

The Illuminati would have been better off just throwing Hulk in the negative zone, assuming he couldn't get out somehow.

Heck, they would have been better off only giving the ship enough fuel for a one way trip, or setting a fuse to blow, or using an EMP emitted instead of a nuke, or keeping Banner on Valium, or taking Hulk into the middle of a city and lighting him on fire. Any one of those options would have resulted in less death and destruction. For smart guys, the Illuminati were really stupid.

[Kaelaroth]

A lot of smart people employ overly complicated plans.

In truth, their idea was quite a good one, thy just didn't have time to really think it over properly, with the American government wanting to nuke every big green guy they could.

Also, I think there was some kind of argument/accident which caused him to go off course.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I would guess that there was an unforeseen error that caused the accident, and they made it because they were in a hurry. Even the smartest people make mistakes when rushed.

[Rare Pink Leech]

As we all know from D&D, just because the Illuminati are all extremely smart doesn't mean they're wise. When crafting this plan and building the spaceship, they all rolled high on the Intelligence checks, but failed miserably on their Wisdom checks :smallbiggrin:


The Illuminati would have been better off just throwing Hulk in the negative zone, assuming he couldn't get out somehow.

Seeing his current level of power, he probably would've punched a hole between dimensions to escape the negative zone :smallwink:

[GoC]

Seeing his current level of power, he probably would've punched a hole between dimensions to escape the negative zone :smallwink:

Once again showing the level of stupidity Hulk's writers have.:smallannoyed:


One in a billion? They launched him into space and stopped paying attention two seconds later. All of the Illuminati knows that there's several, several populated planets in the universe and other sorts of intelligent life in between the stars. If nothing else, they should have checked to see if the ship was intercepted or if perhaps someone came to the planet the Hulk landed on thinking someone needed help. Besides that, being a rocket scientist, Reed Richards should have figured that there's all kinds of space debris that could have damaged that ship which couldn't be calculated for. They were being exceptionally irresponsible.

Space debry is pretty rare and habitable pranets are 1 in a billion (in our universe) and probably 1 in 100000 in their universe. The aimed it correctly but the accident caused it to drift off course.
I agree they should have checked but maybe they had some important things to take care of?
And the occasional mistake does not make them as dangerous to have around as someone who goes on rampages just about every other day!

[....]

And the occasional mistake does not make them as dangerous to have around as someone who goes on rampages just about every other day!

This 'occasional mistake' killed billions of people.

Imagine for a moment that some spaceship landed on earth and then exploded killing everyone. Would you be able to go, "Oh, its okay Illuminati, we know you were just trying to get rid of a problem you had. We don't blame you, I mean, come on! Everyone makes mistakes sometimes!"

And I think people are overestimating how often the Hulk starts killing people. Besides his little speedbump in Vegas, when was the last time he went berserk and knocked a few buildings down?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

There's also the fallacy in saying the Illuminati had better things to do then making sure the Hulk arrived as planned- you've already acknowledged that the Hulk was a big enough threat in the first place that he needs to be sent into permanent exile. You don't just send something like that away and then neglect making sure that your plan worked. They've already begun treating him as worse then your average supervillain.

Also, space debris is a lot more common then you're giving credit for. Even if we were to pretend that Reed Richards somehow knew the celestial movements of everything on the way to the planet, could see all of the celestial bodies that would be moving in and out during this period of time, and calculated trajectory appropriately, certain kinds of space dust that couldn't possibly be accounted for might be harmful to the ship and cause for accidents.

[Foeofthelance]

Space debry is pretty rare and habitable pranets are 1 in a billion (in our universe) and probably 1 in 100000 in their universe. The aimed it correctly but the accident caused it to drift off course.
I agree they should have checked but maybe they had some important things to take care of?
And the occasional mistake does not make them as dangerous to have around as someone who goes on rampages just about every other day!

The truth, as far as I can recall, is that the Illuminati tricked Banner into getting on to the ship in the first place was by asking him to go fight a rogue cyber entity. They wanted him to fight something (which he did) but figured what ever they sent him out on wouldn't get damaged in the process. Yeah, that's some real brilliance, right there.

Also, this all happened right before Civil War, which Doc Strange sat out, and he was in on the vote, so he could have scried on Hulk to see what was up. He chose instead to go meditate on the conflict. Apparently starving himself in an effort to convince the two most stubborn men in the Marvel Universe was more important then paying attention to plots already in motion. Stark and Reed were too busy trying to lock up their friends, but where was Blackbolt? He could have checked as well.

Hulk, on the other hand, has always been the whipping boy of the Marvel teams. When they need an indestructible bruiser he's the first guy they call, but when the government or some other rogue goes after him and causes him to go berserk, they blame it on his temper. The Hulk has finally realized this, after his happiness was stolen away by their carelessness. He was almost willing to forgive the debt, but now he's decided its time to collect, and the bill just multiplied by 1,000,000.

Go Hulk.

[selfcritical]

what do you guys think about the mystery bug invasion
going on at the same time

Far more important in the grand scope of things, and I would point out once again that Reed richards poking around with the fabric of reality without supvervision or oversight is what clued annhilus off to the existence of our reality. The death toll is in the billions.

[GoC]

This 'occasional mistake' killed billions of people.

Imagine for a moment that some spaceship landed on earth and then exploded killing everyone. Would you be able to go, "Oh, its okay Illuminati, we know you were just trying to get rid of a problem you had. We don't blame you, I mean, come on! Everyone makes mistakes sometimes!"

...
Actualy I would but I'm not exactly normal in that respect.


There's also the fallacy in saying the Illuminati had better things to do then making sure the Hulk arrived as planned- you've already acknowledged that the Hulk was a big enough threat in the first place that he needs to be sent into permanent exile.
He's not a big threat. They just thought he deserved better than prison I suppose.

Also, I'm fairly certain that interstellar spaceships are equiped to deal with space dust and even small rocks.

[....]

...
Actualy I would but I'm not exactly normal in that respect.

The Hulk will smash.

[Chaos Perfected]

Y'know, why didn't they just make Bruce take drugs to control his condition?

"Hulk no get angry anymore.. Hulk happy."

Medical weed. Hulk won't go smashing around town anytime soon.

[kpenguin]

Y'know, why didn't they just make Bruce take drugs to control his condition?

"Hulk no get angry anymore.. Hulk happy."

Medical weed. Hulk won't go smashing around town anytime soon.

I'm sure Hulk has some sort of immunity to drugs and other chemicals while raging. It does make me think, though. If Hulk's strength increases with anger, does it decrease with happiness/sadness? Or is tied to the strength of emotion, causing him to be weakest when he is most passive, and the only reason it is most related to anger is because anger is what Hulk feels the most?

[Green Bean]

Hulk probably has a resistance to most drugs, but does Banner? I'll bet if you approached him before this whole shooting him into space mess, and told him "If you pop these pills twice a day, you won't turn into Hulk," he'd have no problem with it.

[kpenguin]

Wouldn't Hulk stop him from taking the pills?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Last I checked, the Hulk turns back to Banner when he loses any reason to be angry. I submit that the Illuminati could have controlled the Hulk easily with Oreos.

"HULK ANGRY! HULK SMASH! HULK- IS THOSE OREOS? HULK LOVE OREOS!"

I'm not sure if the Hulk would care much if Banner's not angry, so the pills might be an option. If not, perhaps forceful injection the first time followed by making sure Banner never misses a pill? Just gotta make the green voice go away the first time.

[kpenguin]

Man, why hasn't Tony thought of this.... two words: OREO CANNON:smallbiggrin:

[....]

Man, why hasn't Tony thought of this.... two words: OREO CANNON:smallbiggrin:

To late now, Hulk smashed him good.