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View Full Version : DM Help The Fighter Sucks, what should I stick in the loot pile for him?



Dormammu
2016-02-11, 07:31 PM
My poor player. He asked me to make his character for him and I made a mostly core human fighter.

Then the other players got out their 2 dozen splat books, and went on the forums, and went bananagrams with their melee characters.

Now he's vastly overshadowed.

I talked to him about it and he said he didn't want to change the build, but he wouldn't mind if Santa left him something in the next poorly locked treasure chest.

Here's the build:

Male Human Fighter 10

Strength 18 (+4)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Intelligence 8 (-1)
Wisdom 8 (-1)
Charisma 14 (+2)

Feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Great Fortitude
Iron Will
Lightning Reflexes
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Sunder
Weapon Focus x1

What should Santa have in his big swollen sack?

Eox
2016-02-11, 07:34 PM
In order: A Sphere of Annihilation, a free reroll and a copy of the Tome of Battle.

edit: In all seriousness though, what are some examples of him being overshadowed? Knowing what the other players can do is just as important as knowing what he can do.

Morcleon
2016-02-11, 07:40 PM
In order: A Sphere of Annihilation, a free reroll and a copy of the Tome of Battle.

...yeah, that's pretty good. :smalltongue:

If he doesn't wanna switch to a ToB class, give him some of the discipline items from the book so he can do more interesting things.

Blackhawk748
2016-02-11, 07:41 PM
A 1 use combo item of Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos that only works for badly built Fighters. Seriously, he has Lighting Reflexes, and not for a Pre Req, get him a feat shuffle quick.

With that being said, a 3/day item of Trollshape would be fun.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-02-11, 07:44 PM
Give him an intelligent psychoactive skin of proteus of his alignment that acts as a Venom style symbiont, and can't be removed once it attaches to him while he's asleep.

ML 7 at-will metamorphosis is fantastic for attack, defense, mobility, and utility, both in and out of a fight.

johnbragg
2016-02-11, 07:44 PM
My poor player. He asked me to make his character for him and I made a mostly core human fighter.

Then the other players got out their 2 dozen splat books, and went on the forums, and went bananagrams with their melee characters.

Now he's vastly overshadowed.

I talked to him about it and he said he didn't want to change the build, but he wouldn't mind if Santa left him something in the next poorly locked treasure chest.

Here's the build:

Male Human Fighter 10

Strength 18 (+4)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Intelligence 8 (-1)
Wisdom 8 (-1)
Charisma 14 (+2)

Feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Great Fortitude
Iron Will
Lightning Reflexes
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Sunder
Weapon Focus x1

What should Santa have in his big swollen sack?

Geez, for one thing, a magic doohickey that lets him swap out the three save boosting feats for a Martial Stance and two Maneuvers.

He has Spring Attack, so how about Boots of Striding and Springing, boosted to say +30 feet instead of +10.

A magic (weapon that he has weapon focus in) with the spirit of a sympatico archmage bonded to it?

Afgncaap5
2016-02-11, 07:48 PM
Would you rather keep it something that exists in the books, or do you want to homebrew something special? Since it's a new player, I'd be tempted to invent something that lets the player roll dice since die-rolling is fun. I always like homebrewing things. Assuming you don't, though...

It might be fun to introduce an artifact as a story hook. Would the Shield of Prator be too overpowering for what you're doing? Daily access to level 20 Paladin spells, resistance 10 to energy damage, spell resistance of 15, and (of course) the +5 enhancement bonus to the shield. Best part is that if it becomes an annoyance, you can enforce a deity commanding the fighter to go on a quest and/or have the shield be damaged by an agent of darkness who doesn't want the shield at full strength in the hands of a hero before BBEG Operation X commences. (Or even just some demon lord who wants it as a trophy repeatedly saying "I'll torch this village of kittens if you don't give it to me. No? Well I'll torch THIS kitten of villagers if you don't give it to me. No? Well, I'll torch THIS! village of villagers..." etc.)

Elkad
2016-02-11, 07:49 PM
Minotaur Greathammer with a pile of powers (including free EWP for it) and a class restriction of "single-class Fighters" only?

Include something moderately ridiculous like always-on Overland Flight

Eox
2016-02-11, 07:52 PM
An intelligent magic weapon that only helps the underdog. Shocks the **** out of the other melee players if they try to take it, but instantly opens up its full suite of powers to the fighter.

Lans
2016-02-11, 07:54 PM
You could backport the pathfinder fighter

Eox
2016-02-11, 07:56 PM
You could backport the pathfinder fighter

Actually, do this. The Advanced Weapon Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Advanced-Weapon-Training) they just more-or-less patched in is absolutely wonderful.

AvatarVecna
2016-02-11, 07:57 PM
A 1 use combo item of Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos that only works for badly built Fighters. Seriously, he has Lighting Reflexes, and not for a Pre Req, get him a feat shuffle quick.

With the feats he's got set up, I feel like there should be enough charges for him to change away all the crap feats he's got. Beyond that, if he really doesn't want to rebuild his character, there's not much you can do to help him that doesn't fall into the shifty area of WBLmancy, and even that can only help so much without giving him piles of loot that are far beyond what the rest of the party has. If you wish to go that route, though...
Slippers of Swiftness (Continuous "Haste" from Trapsmith list); extra attack, costs 8000 gp
Stone Gauntlets (Continuous "Fist of Stone"); Str +6 enhancement, costs 8000 gp
Wraith's Ring (Continuous "Wraithstrike"); all melee attacks target Touch AC, costs 48000 gp
Choker of Rest (Use-Activated "Cure Light Wounds"); 1d8+1 healing as a standard action at-will, 1800 gp
Rod of Rebirth (X charges of "Embrace the Dark Chaos" and "Shun the Dark Chaos" each); reshuffle feats X times, costs (3050*X) gp


Just a few ideas.

EDIT: In fact, while I normally hate these modifiers with a passion, I suggest you pile on the "restricted to a particular class/alignment/race" cost reducers, to make the items less likely to get appropriated by the other characters, as well as to reduce their effective cost so you can claim it's still balanced loot.

Dormammu
2016-02-11, 07:59 PM
In order: A Sphere of Annihilation, a free reroll and a copy of the Tome of Battle.

edit: In all seriousness though, what are some examples of him being overshadowed? Knowing what the other players can do is just as important as knowing what he can do.

Ha ha! Delightful.

He's being overshadowed by exactly what you suggest. There's a Swordsage with Leap Attack & Battle Jump, and an Ogre Barbarian with a +1 Vicious, Flaming, Shocking Greatclub and a lot of tactical feats.

Honestly the player is newer and doesn't need things that will make him look up more rules. We're looking for something simple that will boost his damage output.

AvatarVecna
2016-02-11, 08:01 PM
Honestly the player is newer and doesn't need things that will make him look up more rules. We're looking for something simple that will boost his damage output.

The first three items I listed help with that; one gives an extra attack, one gives him a cheap Str bonus, and the last one lets him target Touch AC, letting him Power Attack all the time. Also, if you feel like it, throw in a Goliath Belt (Continuous "Enlarge Person") for another 4000 gp if you think it'll help.

Dormammu
2016-02-11, 08:08 PM
Would you rather keep it something that exists in the books, or do you want to homebrew something special? Since it's a new player, I'd be tempted to invent something that lets the player roll dice since die-rolling is fun.

It can be homebrewed, it can be an artifact. It should be something simple though, since the player is overwhelmed with rules as it is. Rolling dice is fun.

If it has complex rules maybe an intelligent item perhaps? So that he doesn't have to track them?

Âmesang
2016-02-11, 08:09 PM
Joke Response: So as of this writing I'm watching WWE SmackDown and my first thought was a fighter cohort to act as a tag-team.

I'm sure the Complete series has skill tricks for that, right? :smallbiggrin:

johnbragg
2016-02-11, 08:11 PM
Ha ha! Delightful.

He's being overshadowed by exactly what you suggest. There's a Swordsage with Leap Attack & Battle Jump, and an Ogre Barbarian with a +1 Vicious, Flaming, Shocking Greatclub and a lot of tactical feats.

Honestly the player is newer and doesn't need things that will make him look up more rules. We're looking for something simple that will boost his damage output.

Give him a Tinkerbell Pixie Sorceror 6 who keeps casting haste and fly and invisibility and expeditious retreat (so he can use that Spring Attack effectively) and enlarge person

Argh, I always forget that Expeditious Retreat is a self-only spell. Maybe say "screw the rules, I'm a Kobold!" and make him Tinkerbell's familiar? EDIT: Throw in True Strike, too.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-02-11, 08:12 PM
Argh, I always forget that Expeditious Retreat is a self-only spell. It also doesn't stack with haste. Both are enhancement bonuses to speed.

johnbragg
2016-02-11, 08:16 PM
It also doesn't stack with haste. Both are enhancement bonuses to speed.

But you might run out of 3rd level spell slots. Yeah, probably pick something besides Expeditious Retreat.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-02-11, 08:23 PM
But you might run out of 3rd level spell slots. Yeah, probably pick something besides Expeditious Retreat.In that case, the sorcerer should pack a spellblade of expeditious retreat. Cast the spell on himself and redirect it at the fighter as a free action.

johnbragg
2016-02-11, 08:42 PM
I'm liking my revised Sorcerer 7 cohort idea, an awakened raven or a pseudodragon who for unfathomable reasons pledges undying loyalty to the Big Stupid Fighter.

Spells known: 3rd haste, fly, 2nd Invisibility, Resist Elements, Bulls' Strength 1st Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil, Comprehend LAnguages, 2 others.

Summon Monster I if the party could use a literal trapmonkey.
Unseen Servant along similar lines.

I figure you want straightforward spells, with obvious advantages for the Big Sweet Fighter. I'm sure he'll also find things to do with the Unseen Servant. Maybe Tenser's Floating Disk, too.

Afgncaap5
2016-02-11, 08:57 PM
It can be homebrewed, it can be an artifact. It should be something simple though, since the player is overwhelmed with rules as it is. Rolling dice is fun.

If it has complex rules maybe an intelligent item perhaps? So that he doesn't have to track them?

How about some sort of "Luck Sword" that gives access to a few luck feats from Complete Scoundrel so that the player can reroll three-ish things a day, along with an enhancement bonus that gets supplemented by a luck bonus on attacks?

Alex12
2016-02-11, 09:41 PM
What sort of weapon does he have now? One option you could try would be to apply that thing Solars have for their bows to a melee weapon, coupled with a shifting Bane effect. Each time he draws the weapon while focusing on an enemy, it automagically changes to be the appropriate Bane effect, and has a chance to insta-kill on a failed save.
Or you could upgrade his weapon to apply temporary negative levels.
Or roll twice and use the better roll for attack and/or damage.
Or have the weapon count as some number of sizes larger.
Or ignore DR and Hardness.
Or grant Pounce.
Or just go with a slab of keyword abilities.
Or give him the ability to at-will use a small number of maneuvers, perhaps from the warblade list
Or you could do something like one of the legacy weapons, but just keyed to Fighter level

Or talk with him and/or the other players to come up with something to help him contribute that won't make those players feel like they're the ones being overshadowed.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-02-11, 10:08 PM
Given that he doesn't want to change the build, I think we can dispense with all the advice that boils down to "let/make him rebuild." My suggestion, partially because of Spring Attack and mostly because I've been watching a lot of Flash lately:

Savitar's Boon
Some say this +1 Shocking Burst <Weapon> was created personally by the god of speed. Others, that it was made by a wizard who was tired of being perpetually late. Either way, anyone holding it is granted powers of incredible speed. In addition to the obvious, the sword grants the following abilities:

Strike Like Lightning: Whenever taking the attack option, the wielder may take a -2 penalty on all attacks this round in order to make one extra attack with this weapon. At BAB +15 he may make a second extra attack, and at BAB +20 he may make a third.
Endless Haste: The wielder gains a +20ft bonus to base land speed, and may move ten times his base land speed when running. Doing so never makes him tired-- he may run at top speed for days, if he so desires.
Vibrations of Thunder: Three times per day as a swift action, the wielder can cause his body to vibrate at tremendous speed for one round. This functions as the Blink spell, except that there is no chance of becoming material in the middle of a solid object.

That gives him some offense, some defense, and some out-of-combat utility.

Eisfalken
2016-02-11, 10:21 PM
Man, I dunno; he's not "great" at anything. There's no direction; it's like trying to make him good at everything, but he ends up be mediocre/bad at all of it. What magic item do you get for someone whose theme is all over the place?

He doesn't need a bigger item; he needs feat retraining to focus on something. However, if you don't want this to feel like a total redo, instead of just making the changes, incorporate it into the game. Doesn't have to be the stuff from Tome of Battle; just have him find clue to some group that can use a rigorous "boot camp" to forge him into a specific kind of fighter. Perhaps there's a warrior school who does charging builds, while another does tripping builds. The magic item he finds could be something belonging to that school.

To complete his training he goes on an obstacle course that tests his abilities; this will give you a chance to help him understand his dice rolls and what his build is capable of. For example, a charging build could be tested on distance to a target, the type of terrain that makes charging impossible, etc.

This solves more than just the bad build: it makes the player's character feel significant at least for a little while, help wash the taste of a bad build out. Additionally, during this retraining, get the other PCs involved by having them learn how to support such a build here and there, such as buffs or control spells that help the fighter get the best opportunities. This helps group cohesion: everyone realizes they are all part of this mechanism that can absolutely destroy their enemies.

Remember, it's not just about making the numbers better, the player has to value the character again. If they realize they only succeed because you gave them a lot of magic item help, it won't matter if they have a +5 vorpal sword or not, they'll still know they aren't doing their best with the character.

Elder_Basilisk
2016-02-11, 10:22 PM
Male Human Fighter 10

Strength 18 (+4)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Intelligence 8 (-1)
Wisdom 8 (-1)
Charisma 14 (+2)

Feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Great Fortitude
Iron Will
Lightning Reflexes
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Sunder
Weapon Focus x1

Here are a few thoughts, but really it's going to depend on what the player wants to do with the character and in what ways the character is having trouble pulling his weight:

1. Advice to take Elusive Target and Bounding Assault when he hits level 12.
1.5 Rebuild. Trading Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Great Cleave, and Improved Sunder for (for example), Elusive Target, Improved Bull Rush (prereq), Shock Trooper, Endurance (prereq), and Steadfast Determination would be a significant upgrade. Melee weapon mastery is another must have feat from PH 2.

2. Greater skirmisher boots--like Skirmisher boots from Magic Item Compendium but grant the +2 bonus to damage rolls whenever the character moves more than 10 feet before making an attack (rather than requiring the skirmish class feature), activate as a free action (like boots of speed), and have 10 charges per day (like boots of speed). It's a non-standard item, but if you need a price, either 16,000gp or pricing it like boots of speed would probably be fair (based on the standard skirmisher boots pricing). If the character is having trouble equaling ToB classes which do most of their attacks as a standard action, then the ability to make a second iterative attack and (effectively) a haste attack while using Spring Attack will go a long way towards equalizing the his ability to move+attack effectively.

3. A combination cloak of resistance/cloak of (arachnida, flying, montebank, or elemental protection). There are a lot of cloaks that have good mobility or other miscellaneous abilities that ToB classes seem to get but they conflict with the cloak of resistance. Giving the character a cloak of resistance with the other abilities stacked on would enable him to take advantage of interesting abilities without

Eisfalken
2016-02-11, 11:01 PM
2. Greater skirmisher boots--like Skirmisher boots from Magic Item Compendium but grant the +2 bonus to damage rolls whenever the character moves more than 10 feet before making an attack (rather than requiring the skirmish class feature), activate as a free action (like boots of speed), and have 10 charges per day (like boots of speed). It's a non-standard item, but if you need a price, either 16,000gp or pricing it like boots of speed would probably be fair (based on the standard skirmisher boots pricing). If the character is having trouble equaling ToB classes which do most of their attacks as a standard action, then the ability to make a second iterative attack and (effectively) a haste attack while using Spring Attack will go a long way towards equalizing the his ability to move+attack effectively.

Quick side note: if you get the greater skirmisher boots, replace Dodge with Expeditious Dodge (from RotW); it grants a flat dodge bonus to AC against all attacks if you move... I think it's 20 ft. a round? Either way, this a much better feat than Dodge, especially with these boots.


3. A combination cloak of resistance/cloak of (arachnida, flying, montebank, or elemental protection). There are a lot of cloaks that have good mobility or other miscellaneous abilities that ToB classes seem to get but they conflict with the cloak of resistance. Giving the character a cloak of resistance with the other abilities stacked on would enable him to take advantage of interesting abilities without

Side note #2: you don't have to jury-rig this if you use the rules for adding common effects to magic items, located in MIC pg. 233-234. You can straight up take a cloak with a movement enhancement and add +resistance bonus to it. You only have to pay the additional cost of adding the bonus to the base item.

Supported officially with the item cloak of comfort in Complete Mage; it's basically an endure elements aura around the wearer with the resistance bonus built in.

arkangel111
2016-02-12, 12:18 AM
Honestly if he is happy keeping the build I wouldn't worry about it. You have plenty of melee and damage. he is gonna be overshadowed without a HUGE push in a specific direction. I would just give him an interesting item familiar or such. Maybe it has very little effect in combat but it has a very memorable personality. Maybe it hates the fighter but refuses to be held by anyone but him. Likes the color purple and refuses to attack anything wearing purple. Maybe it always talks out loud at the most inappropriate times, or better tries to engage the fighter in philosophical debates in the heat of battle. Perhaps it refuses to be unsheathed unless the Player says "I HAVE THE POWER!!". Randomly takes control of the character and makes him do odd things in social situations.

Any of these things would do more for a first time player than giving him bigger damage numbers ever will. Plus since the other players are more experienced and more prone to minmaxing you can easily keep them from initially trying to grab this item.

PaucaTerrorem
2016-02-12, 01:01 AM
Something that gives him Pounce?

animewatcha
2016-02-12, 05:50 AM
Do the other 2 players have flight? Can you give this player flight? Like Mask of flight from magic of faerun book?

Vaz
2016-02-12, 06:43 AM
Feats are available as Magic Items (Arms and Equipment Guides). Tying some of the utility feats to something like an Intelligent Magic Item (perhaps the Fighter has awoken the magic within the blade).

Rather than giving the fighter a pile of loot, don't give him anything except some trinkets. An intelligent magic item, perhaps even an item familiar.

A sword which grants him the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats while held, possibly; a Scimitar wielder getting the Martial Study chains.

Basically a 'weapon of legacy' by another name and not so crap.

One rather cool thing I was given was a magic item in a low tier game which gave me a 'Gestalt' of a low tier class while it was held. In this instance I was a Rokugan Samurai, and got an intelligent sword which gave me the benefits of a Prestige Class (in that instance, a Crane Clan Iaijutsu Master).

A Greatsword wielding character might enjoy the benefits of a Knight Class.

Aletheides
2016-02-12, 09:12 AM
The intelligent weapon idea is a good one! It also gives you the most freedom to decide what types of bonus power to put in his hands. There are a couple of things I'd think about, though:

-What kind of players are the other martials in the group? If you slap a super-powerful Hackmaster +12 on him and he starts approaching their power level, will they be resentful of this?

-With your fighter's mental stats being so low, he'll be in trouble if the intelligent weapon starts making ego checks against him...although if he's cool with this, there's the possibility of some interesting RP. Maybe the weapon itself is plotting world domination, and chose the most malleable host...er, owner? :smallbiggrin:

JyP
2016-02-12, 10:46 AM
Seems he has great mobility, higher saves than usual and ways to chain kill mooks from his feat lists - a fighter 3.0 in a party with 3.5 splatbook fighters.

Maybe go the Berserking Sword (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#swordBerserking) way : he will be even tougher, transform into He-man, and you can even upgrade the sword a notch by saying he can do Vigor or Will Saves to calm himself/gain greater strength.

Note that as a fighter he can go the full plate way - you can have a cursed armor with berserker abilities (like Gats from Berserk manga, just google 'berserk armor'). Plate armor is not ok for swordsages, nor an ogre which would be much too big.

StreamOfTheSky
2016-02-12, 12:20 PM
I talked to him about it and he said he didn't want to change the build, but he wouldn't mind if Santa left him something in the next poorly locked treasure chest.

Male Human Fighter 10

Strength 18 (+4)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Intelligence 8 (-1)
Wisdom 8 (-1)
Charisma 14 (+2)

Feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Great Fortitude
Iron Will
Lightning Reflexes
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Sunder
Weapon Focus x1

What should Santa have in his big swollen sack?

I'm just curious. If this is from a "random" treasure chest and not specifically given to the fighter, how can you be sure none of the others will try and claim it? Do they Out of Character understand and are ok w/ you giving him a powerful magic item to make up for being weak? If not, that pretty severely limits you to items that only he can make good use of, like a weapon that he has weapon focus in, and even then it assumes no one else can muster that. If one of the overshadowers has Warblade levels and Weapon Focus (anything), he can choose to adapt to the new weapon. (Side note: How stupid is it that Warblades get Weapon Aptitude and Fighters do not? I give it to Fighters, and you should, too)

Is he at least willing to retrain some of those awful feats? If he's going to be a Fighter 10, at least get Melee Weapon Mastery! I know it's a splat feat, but it's really not complicated... +2 to hit and damage that stacks w/ the other weapon feats. If he is open to splat content, you should let him add some alt. class features. Zhentarim Fighter is literally just free bonuses w/ no cost and makes Intimidate much more useful. C.Champion has some options to swap fighter bonus feats for that are interesting...

Starbuck_II
2016-02-12, 01:10 PM
It can be homebrewed, it can be an artifact. It should be something simple though, since the player is overwhelmed with rules as it is. Rolling dice is fun.

If it has complex rules maybe an intelligent item perhaps? So that he doesn't have to track them?

Sword of Kas?

Nine Lives Slayer that doesn't care if he is good (normally it doesn't like Good) ?

Midnight's Claw: With blade and hilt forged of one solid length of pitch-black steel, Midnight's Claw is a massive and yet surprisingly maneuverable weapon. Simply ornamented, the sword's hilt is wrapped in white wolfskin, the pommel a heavy ring; down the blade runs a series of etchings that resemble a lacework of frost.

Midnight's Claw is a Greatsword +2. With every successful strike, the blade freezes the victim's flesh, enveloping the victim in darkness, rendering them permanently blind (Fort Negate DC 15, as Blindnes/deafness). By sacrificing a point of Constitution for a day, the wielder of Midnight's Claw may invoke a netherbolt of roiling, clinging black "lightning" 15 cone that inflicts 3d6 hit points of negative energy damage -- healing the undead, and inflicting half again the damage to Lawful creatures -- and paralyzes for 1d6 rounds (save DC 15 Fort negate).
Price: 20K

Nibbens
2016-02-12, 01:42 PM
Here's a thought. Instead of going for the usual +X shocking flaming corrosive vicious whatever that would be obvious - shoot for enchantments that aren't necessarily power pumping, but rather utilitarian.

Dispelling weapons would do wonders for the front-line melee, but aren't picked up by the Min-Maxers at first glance because it adds no static bonuses. If you're really feeling generous, have an "Auto refill" of the dispelling power so he doesn't feel left out.

A defiant weapon would be perfect for the 3 feats that everyone seems to be complaining about.

Furyborn is always a fun one - just for the lols.

Draz74
2016-02-12, 02:10 PM
Since he has a decent Charisma, especially if the other melee tanks don't, give him a weapon of Stunning Surge or Sudden Stunning. (One is powerful, the other is overpowered.) You could even give him a Charisma-boosting item if there are no casters in the party who will want it more badly than him.

Make it a Smoking weapon too (Lords of Darkness) to boost his defenses ridiculously. Yay for overpowered items.

Constant flight is a great thing for Fighters. A Phoenix Cloak (MIC) or Wings of Flying are simple items that are way above a Level 10 character's pay grade.

Of course, Tome of Battle items that grant maneuvers 1/encounter are also highly encouraged; just choose the maneuevers involved for him if he doesn't want to go delving into research. Unfortunately you'll need to do some prerequisite-beating cheese to easily get him many of the best maneuvers, such as White Raven Tactics. But even just a Mountain Hammer-granting belt is a start in the right direction.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-02-12, 02:25 PM
You know, if the intelligent psychoactive skin of proteus I mentioned earlier controlled what the fighter turned into, rather than the fighter doing it himself (and using its own actions, of course), then you could work up a few character sheets using his monster forms that he could use. Simple things like war troll, 7-headed hydra, and tweetie bird (for maneuverability during and between combats) could give him a major leg up. And since the skin uses its own actions, he doesn't have to use his own actions in a fight to change. The skin could even ready actions to give the fighter extra defensive and offensive AoO options between turns.

This wouldn't even be terribly difficult, as fighters are really easy to make character sheets for, and applying fighter levels to monsters is quite easy.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-02-12, 03:17 PM
The class abilities of a ninth-level Swiftblade, and the ability to cast persistent haste 1/day?

50% miss chance, a big speed boost, Bounding Assault as a bonus feat, and an extra standard action per turn.

Segev
2016-02-12, 03:30 PM
Give him a Rod of Lordly Might (woefully overpriced, but really fun and cool) that has the additional benefit of letting him use his Weapon Focus with it no matter its form. Then give him some sort of a flying mount - I suggest a hippogriff or griffon off the top of my head. Maybe the Rod is a symbol of might and authority to which an order of griffons have sworn loyalty, and will follow him as long as he respects his mounts and gives any that fall a proper burial. If it comes with a nice suit of armor and matched barding for the Lord's designated mount, so much the better.

nedz
2016-02-12, 06:44 PM
Echoing StreamOfTheSky's cautionary note - in my experience dropping items for one character usually goes awry. The player in question will go for something useless, which they find to be cool, and the dropped item will just get sold.

That said the obvious solution is a Sword of Angel Summoning. Now even a Deva would be too powerful (incidentally what happened to the other two kinds of Deva ?) so maybe an Archon ? This does assume he is good, but some other alignment appropriate assistant would suffice. The Angel needs to be able to fight but also, more importantly, have some utility SLAs.

Brunks
2016-02-12, 07:40 PM
Ok so you’ve correctly identified a problem in your group, one member is being overshadowed. A very important problem, especially for a new player. You approached your player, and discussed possible solutions, and came up with the idea to give him a nice item.

Very good, I think those are qualities of a great GM!

That said your solution might pose some small problems:

A super special powerful item for one player while the others get nothing sends the very clear message that the game isn’t fair. Their hard work building a good character doesn’t get rewarded. While the core-fighter does. It might not be a problem in your group, but you should be aware of this.
The power of the magic item would have to be incredibly great to make up for the terrible build. Designing items like these is very tricky, it is hard to place it properly on the power curve, and keep it relevant throughout the campaign. There have been many great suggestions already, but it is still a hard call.
What happens if? Introducing a very high powered magic item can have many unforeseen consequences. What happens if the other players want to claim it, or at the very least have it come from his share of the loot? What happens if the player decides to sell it? What happens if the character dies? What happens if it gets destroyed? Etc.
Most magic items either enhance one of the characters strengths, or covers one of their weaknesses. The problem is that this fighter has almost no discernable strengths, and a lot of weaknesses. Putting all the load on a single magic item might make the item the hero, not the character. Giving it to a commoner would have almost the same result.



That said, I would like to take a moment and look at some of the causes of your problem, and maybe there are some other solutions possible?
Causes:

The fighter is terribly build (no offense meant)
The player doesn’t want to change his build
The player is new
A new Player is playing a level 10 character?
Other players were allowed to optimize, and had their characters greenlit.
The character has no niche



The fighter is terribly build:
Many people have suggested ways and means to retrain feats, because this really is the most fair and effective way to improve this character. It is only natural for new players to rebuild their characters to some extent as their system mastery grows. A single “crystal of psychic reformation” would be so much more fair than a übersword of badass doom. Heck you could give it to the entire party if you wanted to. Fighters do have some potential for optimization if they focus on a certain niche. (tripping, bullrushing, AOO’s come to mind)
As it is even straight Core Barbarian will probably outperform this character most of the time.

The player doesn’t want to change his build:
Why? This character doesn’t do anything particularly well, and doesn’t have a unique flair or fighting style he would otherwise lose. Is it because it wouldn’t make sense if he just woke up with new feats someday? What is he attached to? Perhaps re-engage with your player and discuss these problems? Keep in mind that being new his opinion to not rebuild might be ill informed (or too much homework, hihi).

The player is new:
Granted the difference in builds, some of the discrepancy in damage might not just be numbers. Is the player playing his character effectively? Is the übersword of badass doom going to have to make up for inexperienced play style too? Worth considering.

A new Player is playing a level 10 character?:
I’m not really clear on the party’s current level, are they level 10 as the build implies? Or is that just the build planning? Did they start at level 1? Why has it taken that long to notice the performance gap?
Why have a new player start with a level 10 character? This is an explosion of rules, class abilities, enemies, to just front load at a player. No wonder he couldn’t build his own character.
Nothing you can really do about it now, it is what it is. Maybe next time have any new player at least experience what it is like to make a new character, and level it organically.

Other players were allowed to optimize, and had their characters greenlit.
Did you not foresee this situation? Did you perhaps not review their character sheets? Was it not a concern? Why is it a concern now?
Again, not a lot you can do about it, it would be very awkward to have other players nerf their characters mid campaign so the new guy can keep up. Possible I guess, but not fun.

The character has no niche:
D&D is a largely combat focused game, so the effectiveness of characters is usually measured in damage and BFC. He is competing for damage with two other characters who are way better at it. Since he has no real strengths there are no other ways for him to contribute. He never gets to shine. Just upping his damage might solve it, but giving him a good niche will probably be more balanced and noticeable.

In closing
I’m not sure if just giving him the the übersword of badass doom is the correct approach, and might be a band aid at best. In past campaigns I have tried this approach, but personally found it very frustrating, mostly for the reasons outlined above.

I hope this post doesn’t come off as too negative or critical, that isn’t my intent. Its just that I read this thread this morning, and these arguments have been mulling around in my head all day. I kind of have an obsessive brain like that.

Hopefully I can finally sleep now.

TLDR;
Rebuild > the übersword of badass doom

Segev
2016-02-12, 07:47 PM
Another thing you might try, assuming it wouldn't ruin the player's fun, is getting him bitten by a lycanthrope. A werebear would complement his build fairly nicely, and though the LA and HD are painful in the sense that he's not leveling for a long while, he's effectively jumping in level.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-02-12, 07:58 PM
Another thing you might try, assuming it wouldn't ruin the player's fun, is getting him bitten by a lycanthrope. A werebear would complement his build fairly nicely, and though the LA and HD are painful in the sense that he's not leveling for a long while, he's effectively jumping in level.You could also have an adventure that makes everyone think there's an outbreak of lycanthropy, but it's just a crazy "mad scientist" mage casting curse of lycanthropy on random people in the streets in an effort to "perfect humanity." Which, honestly, is not a bad idea. You set up a self-resetting trap of the spell on several 5' spaces in the city square, and everyone who passes through contracts easily curable lycanthropy.

He might even be well-meaning, albeit paranoid. "Look at all those horrific monsters out there! We're only one invasion away from being overrun by mindflayers or worse things! We need to be strong enough to resist!" Though is it really paranoia if they really are out to get you?

Malimar
2016-02-12, 07:59 PM
Of course, Tome of Battle items that grant maneuvers 1/encounter are also highly encouraged; just choose the maneuevers involved for him if he doesn't want to go delving into research. Unfortunately you'll need to do some prerequisite-beating cheese to easily get him many of the best maneuvers, such as White Raven Tactics. But even just a Mountain Hammer-granting belt is a start in the right direction.

I had a similar problem as the OP with a paladin in one of my groups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?266929-Help-Me-Make-The-Party-s-Paladin-Feel-Awesome), and the board's consensus was to have an enemy drop a Crown of the White Raven for him, so that's what happened. The player was just annoyed by having to go through ToB and pick himself a maneuver he liked that he qualified for, saying "See, this is why I don't play casters."

Which is to say, I'm seconding "choose the maneuvers involved for him". Or at least give him a list of what he qualifies for so he doesn't have to go hunting.

nedz
2016-02-12, 08:27 PM
Ok so you’ve correctly identified a problem in your group, one member is being overshadowed. A very important problem, especially for a new player. You approached your player, and discussed possible solutions, and came up with the idea to give him a nice item.

Very good, I think those are qualities of a great GM!

That said your solution might pose some small problems:

A super special powerful item for one player while the others get nothing sends the very clear message that the game isn’t fair. Their hard work building a good character doesn’t get rewarded. While the core-fighter does. It might not be a problem in your group, but you should be aware of this.
The power of the magic item would have to be incredibly great to make up for the terrible build. Designing items like these is very tricky, it is hard to place it properly on the power curve, and keep it relevant throughout the campaign. There have been many great suggestions already, but it is still a hard call.
What happens if? Introducing a very high powered magic item can have many unforeseen consequences. What happens if the other players want to claim it, or at the very least have it come from his share of the loot? What happens if the player decides to sell it? What happens if the character dies? What happens if it gets destroyed? Etc.
Most magic items either enhance one of the characters strengths, or covers one of their weaknesses. The problem is that this fighter has almost no discernable strengths, and a lot of weaknesses. Putting all the load on a single magic item might make the item the hero, not the character. Giving it to a commoner would have almost the same result.



That said, I would like to take a moment and look at some of the causes of your problem, and maybe there are some other solutions possible?
Causes:

The fighter is terribly build (no offense meant)
The player doesn’t want to change his build
The player is new
A new Player is playing a level 10 character?
Other players were allowed to optimize, and had their characters greenlit.
The character has no niche



The fighter is terribly build:
Many people have suggested ways and means to retrain feats, because this really is the most fair and effective way to improve this character. It is only natural for new players to rebuild their characters to some extent as their system mastery grows. A single “crystal of psychic reformation” would be so much more fair than a übersword of badass doom. Heck you could give it to the entire party if you wanted to. Fighters do have some potential for optimization if they focus on a certain niche. (tripping, bullrushing, AOO’s come to mind)
As it is even straight Core Barbarian will probably outperform this character most of the time.

The player doesn’t want to change his build:
Why? This character doesn’t do anything particularly well, and doesn’t have a unique flair or fighting style he would otherwise lose. Is it because it wouldn’t make sense if he just woke up with new feats someday? What is he attached to? Perhaps re-engage with your player and discuss these problems? Keep in mind that being new his opinion to not rebuild might be ill informed (or too much homework, hihi).

The player is new:
Granted the difference in builds, some of the discrepancy in damage might not just be numbers. Is the player playing his character effectively? Is the übersword of badass doom going to have to make up for inexperienced play style too? Worth considering.

A new Player is playing a level 10 character?:
I’m not really clear on the party’s current level, are they level 10 as the build implies? Or is that just the build planning? Did they start at level 1? Why has it taken that long to notice the performance gap?
Why have a new player start with a level 10 character? This is an explosion of rules, class abilities, enemies, to just front load at a player. No wonder he couldn’t build his own character.
Nothing you can really do about it now, it is what it is. Maybe next time have any new player at least experience what it is like to make a new character, and level it organically.

Other players were allowed to optimize, and had their characters greenlit.
Did you not foresee this situation? Did you perhaps not review their character sheets? Was it not a concern? Why is it a concern now?
Again, not a lot you can do about it, it would be very awkward to have other players nerf their characters mid campaign so the new guy can keep up. Possible I guess, but not fun.

The character has no niche:
D&D is a largely combat focused game, so the effectiveness of characters is usually measured in damage and BFC. He is competing for damage with two other characters who are way better at it. Since he has no real strengths there are no other ways for him to contribute. He never gets to shine. Just upping his damage might solve it, but giving him a good niche will probably be more balanced and noticeable.

In closing
I’m not sure if just giving him the the übersword of badass doom is the correct approach, and might be a band aid at best. In past campaigns I have tried this approach, but personally found it very frustrating, mostly for the reasons outlined above.

I hope this post doesn’t come off as too negative or critical, that isn’t my intent. Its just that I read this thread this morning, and these arguments have been mulling around in my head all day. I kind of have an obsessive brain like that.

Hopefully I can finally sleep now.

TLDR;
Rebuild > the übersword of badass doom

I agree with this in principle, but the player has asked for a drop. The most useful drop would be another character in some (dis-)guise - which solves most of the issues.

Platymus Pus
2016-02-12, 08:40 PM
The feat leadership,improved cohort, and a free wizard