Low-level Tanking Advice

[Anonymouswizard]

So it turns out my group already has a wizard (why it took over a week to tell me what they had is beyond me), but seems light on the DPR and tanking front, with only a Barbarian or martial classes, so I thought I'd bring in a fighter to compensate.

The party will be level 1, maybe level 2 when I join, so I don't have any feats or subclasses yet, but my current build is:

Name:
Race: Earth Genasi
Class: Fighter 1
Background: Noble
-STR 16
-DEX 8
-CON 16
-INT 10
-WIS 12
-CHA 13
Skills: Athletics +5, History +2, Perception +3, Persuasion +3
Languages: Common, Primordial, Elven
Tool Proficiencies: Chess Set
Fighting Style: Defence
Weapons: Halberd +5/1d10+3
Longsword +5/1d8+3(/1d10+3)
2xhandaxe +5/1d6+3
Armour: Chainmail (AC 17)
Other Items: backpack, bedroll, mess kit, tinderbox, 10 torches, 10 days rations, waterskin, 50ft hempen rope, fine gown, signet ring, scroll of pedigree, 25gp

Any tips for tanking at such low a level? Is it worth picking up a halberd closer to level 4 and going sword+board for now? Is the defence fighting style not worthwhile and better replaced with duelling or great weapon?

[MaxWilson]

So it turns out my group already has a wizard (why it took over a week to tell me what they had is beyond me), but seems light on the DPR and tanking front, with only a Barbarian or martial classes, so I thought I'd bring in a fighter to compensate.

The party will be level 1, maybe level 2 when I join, so I don't have any feats or subclasses yet, but my current build is:

Name:
Race: Earth Genasi
Class: Fighter 1
Background: Noble
-STR 16
-DEX 8
-CON 16
-INT 10
-WIS 12
-CHA 13
Skills: Athletics +5, History +2, Perception +3, Persuasion +3
Languages: Common, Primordial, Elven
Tool Proficiencies: Chess Set
Fighting Style: Defence
Weapons: Halberd +5/1d10+3
Longsword +5/1d8+3(/1d10+3)
2xhandaxe +5/1d6+3
Armour: Chainmail (AC 17)
Other Items: backpack, bedroll, mess kit, tinderbox, 10 torches, 10 days rations, waterskin, 50ft hempen rope, fine gown, signet ring, scroll of pedigree, 25gp

Any tips for tanking at such low a level? Is it worth picking up a halberd closer to level 4 and going sword+board for now? Is the defence fighting style not worthwhile and better replaced with duelling or great weapon?

What kind of Fighter are you aiming for in the long run?

Defense + sword & shield is absolutely worth doing. Be very willing to Dodge. Enemies will still be risking an opportunity attack if they move away from you; they can Disengage, but if they do that, then the rest of the party can easily move away from them, and you can easily catch up and threaten them again, so Disengaging per se doesn't actually accomplish anything for them.

With Defense + sword and shield, you'll have AC 19, and hitting a Dodging AC 19 is quite difficult. You'll stretch out your party endurance by quite a lot via Dodging.

Another thing to consider is grappling. If you can manage to Grapple a given enemy, they cease to be a threat to anyone but you, and then you can definitely do whatever you want (Dodge, Push them Prone, drag them around, whatever) while the rest of the party focuses on killing the guy you have controlled.

One final thought: low-level tanks should be especially aware of opportunities for partial or total cover. It can be the difference between life and death.

[Anonymouswizard]

What kind of Fighter are you aiming for in the long run?

I was planning on a halberdier build, Sentinel at level 4 and Polearms Master at level 6 (my other five feats undecided).

I might also go for straight sword+boarding, with longsword+shield to make the most of the most likely magic weapons.

For subclass I'm planning on going Battlemaster, although a sword+shield Champion with both Defence and Dueling fighting styles at level 10 is tempting.


Defense + sword & shield is absolutely worth doing. Be very willing to Dodge. Enemies will still be risking an opportunity attack if they move away from you; they can Disengage, but if they do that, then the rest of the party can easily move away from them, and you can easily catch up and threaten them again, so Disengaging per se doesn't actually accomplish anything for them.

With Defense + sword and shield, you'll have AC 19, and hitting a Dodging AC 19 is quite difficult. You'll stretch out your party endurance by quite a lot via Dodging.

Interetesting ideas. What does dodging do?


Another thing to consider is grappling. If you can manage to Grapple a given enemy, they cease to be a threat to anyone but you, and then you can definitely do whatever you want (Dodge, Push them Prone, drag them around, whatever) while the rest of the party focuses on killing the guy you have controlled.

One final thought: low-level tanks should be especially aware of opportunities for partial or total cover. It can be the difference between life and death.

I'll keep an eye out for opportunistic grapples (why do you think I have Athletics?) and cover.

[Captbrannigan]

Defence is good, +1 AC is a 5% chance to dodge.

Who else is in the group besides the Barbarian and Wizard? You said they're light on tanking and dpr, what do they have? Clerics and Paladins put out more than just healing spells ya know, or they should at least. Barbarians are great tanks btw. Do you know what kind of wiz they are: controller, blaster, utility, newb?

I'd let the Barbarian put his face in the way of most sharp things, and follow behind or aside him with a halberd. Use reach to keep things from getting past the two of you to the squishies behind. Be prepared to drop the halberd and go s&b as needed, try to keep everyone occupied by yourself or the Barbarian so your buddies can rain down arrows/spells with impunity. There's no taunting (I'm sure I'm wrong, maneuvers and feats probably let you), so making yourself a threat and positioning yourself so things have to move past you is all you can really do. Your teammates will take hits and go down occasionally, just do what you can. Shoving things prone can be useful (and fun!), but be wary that it causes disadvantage on your teammates ranged attacks. Good idea if they have other targets tho.

Grappling can be a good way to lock down and control the battlefield, but imo is best left to specialized caster builds who can get 8 arms, increased size and str, and passive dpr (fire shield, spike growth, etc).

[Anonymouswizard]

Defence is good, +1 AC is a 5% chance to dodge.

Who else is in the group besides the Barbarian and Wizard? You said they're light on tanking and dpr, what do they have? Clerics and Paladins put out more than just healing spells ya know, or they should at least. Barbarians are great tanks btw. Do you know what kind of wiz they are: controller, blaster, utility, newb?

We have a max/mined halfling nun (he specifically minimised his advantages while maxing his weaknesses). Should I just let the Barb tank and play a skillmonkey rogue then, to round out the roles? (the wizard is likely newb/blaster) or are skills not required?


I'd let the Barbarian put his face in the way of most sharp things, and follow behind or aside him with a halberd. Use reach to keep things from getting past the two of you to the squishies behind. Be prepared to drop the halberd and go s&b as needed, try to keep everyone occupied by yourself or the Barbarian so your buddies can rain down arrows/spells with impunity. There's no taunting (I'm sure I'm wrong, maneuvers and feats probably let you), so making yourself a threat and positioning yourself so things have to move past you is all you can really do. Your teammates will take hits and go down occasionally, just do what you can. Shoving things prone can be useful (and fun!), but be wary that it causes disadvantage on your teammates ranged attacks. Good idea if they have other targets tho.

Interesting ideas here though.


Grappling can be a good way to lock down and control the battlefield, but imo is best left to specialized caster builds who can get 8 arms, increased size and str, and passive dpr (fire shield, spike growth, etc).

If you say so.

[georgie_leech]

Interetesting ideas. What does dodging do?



I'll keep an eye out for opportunistic grapples (why do you think I have Athletics?) and cover.

Gives enemies Disadvantage on attack rolls against you and because of all the reasons Max listed respectively. Fighters aren't exactly spoiled for skill choices, but the skill that works off of their primary stat, offers a number of tactical options, and is thematically appropriate for a hardened warrior is usually a smart choice. YMMV based on character concept, of course.

[GodslayerINC]

"Tanking" comes down to two things survivability and control. There are several ways to go about either one.

Survivability
Usually it takes two of the following being above average to truly feel "tanky"

HP (AKA Meat Shield)- High Con (16-18+) Tough feat etc. You are looking at getting 10+ HP every level
AC- You want a 20 AC ASAP. From there you want 1 AC per 2 Lvs (30 AC at 20). Depending on your DM's reading Lucky is really handy here negating Nat 20's
Resistance -Cuts damage in half get good mileage out of Meat shields
Disadvantage - Goes well with AC, Forcing them to have DisADV on attacks with a 15 AC is Meh, forcing them to hit you twice with a 25 AC. Win.

Control
Sentinel- This feat is cool, does what you want it to do. I personally feel like this plus polearm mastery is to cheesy. I will not take both and PC's that do should encounter more mobs with viable ranged options.

Grapple/shove- Grapple is good. Some say broken, I think it is strong tactical choice but it requires a good group to capitalize on it. You need Expertise to do this well so plan on Bard/Rogue splash

Magic- Tons of ways to control the battlefield with magic. Some of my favorite are Spike Growth (No save), Darkness (No Save). Spirit Guardian (No Save doesn't effect allies) + damage (Save), Command (Wis Save), Maelstrom (Str Save), Bones of the Earth (Ref Save), Banish (Cha Save), Polymorph (Wis Save).

On of my favorite "Tanks" I call a Savage. 7 Barb (Bear)/7 Rogue (Any)

Str 15
Dex 15
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 8

Different race options, the whole build is actually rather flexible and and change drastically depending on the exact role you want. I prefer human (V.) and tavern brawler to start with 3 16's.
Take Rogue at 1st to get Dex saves & Expertise (Athletics + what ever role you want Stealth or perception are the 2 best in my opinion) . Take 5 Barb for Bear +extra attack. Lv 6 is where you really come online. Your grapple is high enough that nothing is safe (+9-10 and ADV when raged). Bear makes it so you can take the hits while you grapple. I usually use some sort of Improve shank as a weapon (Bone, sharpened metal, teeth) which lets you grapple as a bonus action after attack.

Lv rogue up to 7 from here. Cunning action lets you drag stuff (Or be stealthy), uncanny dodge stacks with bear resist to cut damage of an attack to 25%. And finally evasion at 7. You get Sneak attacks once you shove them prone, so shove them and shank away. Take 2 more lvs in Barb for feral instinct and tada!. The last 6 are up to you. I like 12 rogue/8 Barb. Reliable Talent is really good as a grapple character. At 20 the lowest you can get is a 27. You end with 7 ASI/Feats. If you want to be a scout take stalker, you want to be beefy take Tough. Lots of options.

[Arkhios]

Seriously, AC 18 is massive at low levels, and it can only get up from there. I'd like to recommend Protection style as well.

Combined with Dodge action on your turn, using your reaction to apply disadvantage to hit one ally next to you, you're making hell of a job as a tank, which means being protective of both yourself and your allies. Even though you're not actively making much damage yourself, you can stay close to those who are, and be a general pain in the arse for your enemies, who can't hit you AND your primary DPR ally.

You could, as a suggestion, get both dexterity and wisdom to at least 13, and pick a few levels (at least 2) in Monk, to get Ki. Then you could use Dodge as a bonus action on your turn, twice per short rest at tough fights.

Just to drive my point home, you can make use of Ki abilities even while wearing armor. Note, that Martial Arts is a separate ability from Ki. What applies to Martial Arts, don't extend to Ki, unless specifically mentioned.

So, while you couldn't benefit from your monk weapon attacks through Martial Arts while wearing armor or using a shield, Ki abilities would work just fine. Which include at 2nd monk level: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind.
In fact, it would seem that only Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense (duh), and Unarmored Movement care about whether you wear armor and use a shield or not. Other abilities, even from the sub-classes, work absolutely fine regardless.
As a hindsight though, you couldn't deal increased damage with your monk weapons or unarmed strikes, but then again, if you multiclassed from fighter, you'd probably prefer using actual weapons anyway, and even forget about using Flurry of Blows (though, even a flat 1+Strength can be enough sometimes).

[Oramac]

Name:
Race: Earth Genasi
Class: Fighter 1
Background: Noble
-STR 16
-DEX 8
-CON 16
-INT 10
-WIS 12
-CHA 13

Why such a high Wis/Cha? Are you planning a multiclass into Paladin/Sorc/Warlock?

If you're going straight Fighter I'd drop Wis/Cha down to 10 and bump your Dex up. It won't affect your AC, but it'll improve your initiative, and having a tank go before the enemies is never a bad thing.

[gfishfunk]

Normally I would say to grab protection style, but I would actually shy away from that with your current make-up.

If you only have one martial class, chances are you will not be adjacent to any of the folks you want to protect (except the Barbarian, and he can take it). Either go Defense for the +1 (which is good, just not great), or chose what weapon that you will end up using the most of the game and go with that. Were I you, I would chose Great Weapon Fighting for your halberd, and then pick up either Sentinel or the Haberd master feat at 4.

Until then, your tanking will simply involve getting in the way of the enemy and keeping them away from your teammates.

Alternatively, Sword and Board works great, and then you can pick up Shield Master at 4 to push people over. I would not recommend it either because your teammates shoot from a distance, and prone targets are harder to hit.

[Anonymouswizard]

Why such a high Wis/Cha? Are you planning a multiclass into Paladin/Sorc/Warlock?

If you're going straight Fighter I'd drop Wis/Cha down to 10 and bump your Dex up. It won't affect your AC, but it'll improve your initiative, and having a tank go before the enemies is never a bad thing.

I don't have permission to point buy stats, but can use the standard array.


Normally I would say to grab protection style, but I would actually shy away from that with your current make-up.

If you only have one martial class, chances are you will not be adjacent to any of the folks you want to protect (except the Barbarian, and he can take it). Either go Defense for the +1 (which is good, just not great), or chose what weapon that you will end up using the most of the game and go with that. Were I you, I would chose Great Weapon Fighting for your halberd, and then pick up either Sentinel or the Haberd master feat at 4.

Until then, your tanking will simply involve getting in the way of the enemy and keeping them away from your teammates.

Alternatively, Sword and Board works great, and then you can pick up Shield Master at 4 to push people over. I would not recommend it either because your teammates shoot from a distance, and prone targets are harder to hit.

I'm considering dumping the fighter now and going for straight rogue* (or fighter 1/rogue X with the archery fighting style) using a pistol (I believe gunslinger is allowed, but at a stretch refluffed hand crossbow). Let the barb tank and focus on damage dealing (I will pass the advice onto him). I'd forgotten barbs make excellent tanks. Any advice to give the barb on tanking specifically for them, or more general tank advice (beyond 'wear robes and a pointy hat over your armour')?

* she's a spy, not not an assassin, thank you very much. Killing for money is vulgar.

[Oramac]

I don't have permission to point buy stats, but can use the standard array.

If that's the case (and you continue down the Fighter path), might I suggest a Mountain Dwarf with the stats straight down the list:

Str: 15
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

That gives you a 17 Str and 15 Con at level 1, and your first ASI can bump those to 18/16 respectively. The 12/10/8 can be moved around depending on the character you want to play.

[Citan]

I don't have permission to point buy stats, but can use the standard array.



I'm considering dumping the fighter now and going for straight rogue* (or fighter 1/rogue X with the archery fighting style) using a pistol (I believe gunslinger is allowed, but at a stretch refluffed hand crossbow). Let the barb tank and focus on damage dealing (I will pass the advice onto him). I'd forgotten barbs make excellent tanks. Any advice to give the barb on tanking specifically for them, or more general tank advice (beyond 'wear robes and a pointy hat over your armour')?

* she's a spy, not not an assassin, thank you very much. Killing for money is vulgar.
Hi OP
I'll put my own suggestions considering initial post and this one.

For a tank role, I would have recommended S&B style anyways.
This can work as well or better with a multiclass Fighter/Rogue.

Start Fighter as initially planned, S&B, with emphasis on DEX (you could do a STR build too, but it biaises you toward melee or require a bit more planning) while keeping STR as decent as possible.
Go Fighter Battlemaster 6 to get classic Fighter goodies, useful manoeuvers (Precision Attack, Goading Attack, etc), extra attack and 2 ASI...

Then start and stick with Rogue.
For Rogue archetypes, Swashbuckler (free Disengage, easier SA) is a given for melee oriented. Otherwise, Arcane Trickster is the best.

Pick up Mobile, Defensive Duelist, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert or Shield Master, depending on your main focus and Rogue archetype.

You will have at least two chances per round to land Sneak Attack, with Precision Attack as backup, opportunity to get advantage either with Shield Master or Mage Hand (AT) and great defense (between STR+CON proficiencies, DEX-save feat enhancements and Evasion to go with main stat, equipment proficiencies and possibly spells).

Have fun :)

[bid]

Any tips for tanking at such low a level? Is it worth picking up a halberd closer to level 4 and going sword+board for now? Is the defence fighting style not worthwhile and better replaced with duelling or great weapon?
Tanking is stopping enemies from reaching melee range of your back row and punishing those who neglect you. You can do that with your halberdier concept, just grab sentinel at level 4.

GWF will add 0.8 damage to your attacks. Defense is best for maxed AC, for you it's roughly 10% less damage taken. Mariner also boost AC but you cannot use a shield. Protection will be useless once you have sentinel.

Since you have reach, you can stay out of melee range and let the barbarian deal with the mob. While your hp is high, you can stay close to a few enemies to split the damage. Sentinel's 3rd point will help you force them to attack you rather than overwhelm the barbarian.

You may want a better initiative to be right behind the barbarian and form the wall early, don't dump Dex. If you plan to take resilient (Wis), start with Wis13.


If you go for excessive AC (S&B + dodge), skirmishers will ignore you and go for the squishies. Wait until your hp is low before going passive. You already have the barbarian to make a wall, just support him.