Tempest Cleric STR vs CHA

[Lendário]

Title pretty much.
I'm rolling a 5th level Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric. Stats are:

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 8

I find that, due to having Sacred Flame, my weapon attacks are useless. Should i drop STR to 10, INT to 8 and raise CHA to 14?

[CantigThimble]

Are you planning on wearing medium armor without a dex bonus then? :smallconfused:

[Spectre9000]

Title pretty much.
I'm rolling a 5th level Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric. States are:

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 8

I find that, due to having Sacred Flame, my weapon attacks are useless. Should i drop STR to 10, INT to 8 and raise CHA to 14?

Why up Charisma? Furthermore, why not go Arcana Cleric and get GFB/BB cantrips if you want to go melee? This will additionally allow your weapon attacks to gain damage from your Wis Mod as well.

[Lendário]

Are you planning on wearing medium armor without a dex bonus then? :smallconfused:

Can't Dwarfs ignore armor restrictions?

[Lendário]

Why up Charisma? Furthermore, why not go Arcana Cleric and get GFB/BB cantrips if you want to go melee? This will additionally allow your weapon attacks to gain damage from your Wis Mod as well.

For CHA skills and better saves.
And it's a ongoing game, i'm stuck as Tempest.

[Spectre9000]

Can't Dwarfs ignore armor restrictions?

Nope, only their speed isn't reduced by Heavy armor. They need proficiency and Str reqs like everyone else.

[Spectre9000]

For CHA skills and better saves.
And it's a ongoing game, i'm stuck as Tempest.

Then how can you just change your ability points?

[Lendário]

Then how can you just change your ability points?

DM is cool about changing ability points once or twice. But never class choices.

[Sir cryosin]

For CHA skills and better saves.
And it's a ongoing game, i'm stuck as Tempest.

No your not stuck as a tempest. Your a cleric start worshiping a new god you can change your domain.

[RulesJD]

Title pretty much.
I'm rolling a 5th level Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric. Stats are:

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 8

I find that, due to having Sacred Flame, my weapon attacks are useless. Should i drop STR to 10, INT to 8 and raise CHA to 14?

No, you should not.

You're the melee/main tank I'm guessing. You want STR to be decent for those Athletic checks involving shoving someone prone to keep them in your Spirit Guardians even after they stand up. [snip].

After further review, I would say 13-14 Cha wouldn't be a bad idea to pickup a level in Sorc. Gets you the cantrips you'll want (GFB/utility ones like Minor Illusion) and Shield, which will be particularly useful once your DM realizes how bad Spirit Guardians is.

[Spectre9000]

DM is cool about changing ability points once or twice. But never class choices.

As Sir Crysin said, it's easier thematically to change your domain by worshiping a new god, than it is to somehow justify the physical and mental manipulation of your being. You can work in your change from Tempest to Arcana as a plot hook if you have a good DM, since you'll be going through a crisis of faith followed by worshiping a new god. You lose all the Domain Features from Tempest, but gain the ones from Arcana. You could theoretically be without any Domain Features during the transition process, but still this is all within the bounds of the D&D world, instead of the arbitrary changing of stats that are the fundamental underlying framework that defines you as a mortal being.

[Arkhios]

Nope, only their speed isn't reduced by Heavy armor. They need proficiency and Str reqs like everyone else.

Actually, dwarves can ignore the speed penalty when wearing armor for which they lack minimum strength.

Proficient or not, minimum strength requirement only matters for the speed penalty (which dwarves ignore!)

[Spectre9000]

Actually, dwarves can ignore the speed penalty when wearing armor for which they lack minimum strength.

Proficient or not, minimum strength requirement only matters for the speed penalty (which dwarves ignore!)

You're right, my bad, was just working off surface level info I was remembering and was lumping the penalties of lack of proficiency and strength into the same thing. Strength does only reduce your speed, whilst a lack of proficiency does a lot of other things.

[DracoKnight]

You're right, my bad, was just working off surface level info I was remembering and was lumping the penalties of lack of proficiency and strength into the same thing. Strength does only reduce your speed, whilst a lack of proficiency does a lot of other things.

And Tempest Clerics are proficient with heavy armor, so he's fine.

[Spectre9000]

I was also thinking, and you could multi-class into Druid for Shillelagh, which gives a club/Quarterstaff a 1D8 damage and you use your Wis Mod instead of Str for attack and damage roles, though you can't wear metal and would need to reallocate some Dex. You could also reallocate your stats to more of a 16/8/14/8/18/13 arrangement (have no clue what arbitrary rules your DM is using to have you rework your stats) and multiclass into Warlock for GFB/BB and Armor of Agathys. Alternatively you can pick up the Magic Initiate Feat to get GFB/BB to improve your damage. You can forgo a shield also and pick up PAM, though I'm not 100% how Shillelaigh would work with PAM on a quarterstaff.

I still recommend switching to the Arcana Domain though, but those are some other options.


Edit: Also, remember you can use Spectral Weapon to deal more melee damage as a bonus action.

[Arkhios]

Anyway, Unless you're planning a multiclass into maybe sorcerer (storm sorcery might suit well, or perhaps draconic), I wouldn't waste any points in charisma as a cleric.

[bid]

I'm rolling a 5th level Hill Dwarf Tempest Cleric.
I find that, due to having Sacred Flame, my weapon attacks are useless. Should i drop STR to 10, INT to 8 and raise CHA to 14?
At level 8, your divine strike requires a weapon attack. That feature is a waste for you.
- RP-wise, swap those stats and disregard divine strike
- switch to a domain with potent spellcasting at level 8
- somehow get shillelagh (nature domain or magic initiate)

If you are having fun as a tempest and never go melee, be true to your RP and stay tempest. If all you care about is the Cha, Str11 / Cha12 works with your point-buy start.

[Spectre9000]

At level 8, your divine strike requires a weapon attack. That feature is a waste for you.
- RP-wise, swap those stats and disregard divine strike
- switch to a domain with potent spellcasting at level 8
- somehow get shillelagh (nature domain or magic initiate)

If you are having fun as a tempest and never go melee, be true to your RP and stay tempest. If all you care about is the Cha, Str11 / Cha12 works with your point-buy start.

Never go melee but get Shillelagh? O.o It seems like he might be the tank so spellcasting in melee and generally not going in melee is kinda bad.

[Lendário]

Never go melee but get Shillelagh? O.o It seems like he might be the tank so spellcasting in melee and generally not going in melee is kinda bad.

Thanks everyone for all the replys.
I think it's best i elaborate more.

The party is myself as Tempest Cleric, a Warlock, a Moon Druid, a Rogue and a Paladin. They are all new to DnD and not good in optmization, but they are doing well.


I can't simply change domains because, in game, i'm the head of a temple to my god, built in a small city the party now controls.


I quite like Tempest. It's a good domain imo.
But, even through it gets heavy armor, i feel like i never really need to strike at meele.

I mean, my STR is never going to go over 14, because:

- As a Dwarf i don't need it for armor
- Wth five ASI i'm getting WIS and CON to 20 and 1 feat. Most likely War Caster.

So my meele hits are never going to be good. And i can rely on Sacred Flame.


So, my idea was to drop STR and use the points elsewhere. CHA being my first option.
And, maybe, even get Magic Initiate for Shillelagh instead of War Caster.

[Spectre9000]

Thanks everyone for all the replys.
I think it's best i elaborar more.

The party is myself as Tempest Cleric, a Warlock, a Moon Druid, a Rogue and a Paladin. They are all new to DnD and not good in optmization, but they are doing well.


I can't simply change domains because, in game, i'm the head of a temple to my god, built in a small city the party now controls.


I quite like Tempest. It's a good domain imo.
But, even through it gets heavy armor, i feel like i never really need to strike at meele.

I mean, my STR is never going to go over 14, because:

- As a Dwarf i don't need it for armor
- Wth five ASI i'm getting WIS and CON to 20 and 1 feat. Most likely War Caster.

So my meele hits are never going to be good. And i can rely on Sacred Flame.


So, my idea was to drop STR and use the points elsewhere. CHA being my first option.
And, maybe, even get Magic Initiate for Shillelagh instead of War Caster.

If you aren't planning on being in melee, you can forgo Str, but then again, you probably aren't going to need 20 Con either. Why don't you tell us what you want to do? We can throw out ideas for your character all day, but unless we know what you actually are going to be doing with it, it'll all be pretty pointless.

[Pex]

You can still be melee despite Sacred Flame. Think of the fun you'll have attacking with your weapon and then attacking with Spiritual Weapon. You have a virtual "Extra Attack" feature starting from level 3. Sacred Flame is still important to you. It's your "range weapon" instead of a crossbow for when you can't or don't want to reach your opponent in the round. Consider switching ST with CO. Level 4 ST goes to 18. You're golden.

[Lendário]

If you aren't planning on being in melee, you can forgo Str, but then again, you probably aren't going to need 20 Con either. Why don't you tell us what you want to do? We can throw out ideas for your character all day, but unless we know what you actually are going to be doing with it, it'll all be pretty pointless.

Well, my position in battle depends on the circunstances. Usually i'm in meele, curing people and striking and "tanking" a bit. But i walk around, zaping spells and stuff while i go cure people far away ( or using healing word )

I'm can't afford more then 14 STR so, my meele hits are starting to be really bad. So i might as well drop STR and only use Sacred Flame. Or get Shillelagh.

[Finieous]

I'm playing a 17th-level tempest cleric. You're prioritizing the right ability scores (Wis and Con). I'd personally leave the 14 in Str if you think it's a campaign where you might find a good magical weapon. Along with Divine Strike, that can make melee attacks a good option relative to sacred flame against some opponents at some levels. Honestly, though, it's not going to be a big deal either way. If you really want Cha skills, it's not going to gimp you at all.

[LordVonDerp]

Nope, only their speed isn't reduced by Heavy armor. They need proficiency and Str reqs like everyone else.

Tempest has heavy armor proficiency and the strength requirement just lets you ignore the speed penalty.

[Spectre9000]

Well, my position in battle depends on the circunstances. Usually i'm in meele, curing people and striking and "tanking" a bit. But i walk around, zaping spells and stuff while i go cure people far away ( or using healing word )

I'm can't afford more then 14 STR so, my meele hits are starting to be really bad. So i might as well drop STR and only use Sacred Flame. Or get Shillelagh.

You can pick up the feat Spell Sniper (Druid) and get Shillelagh (yes, the cantrip needs an attack roll to be valid for this, but seeing as it's a weapon spell that does use attack rolls, I'd let it slide), and double the range on your spells to avoid some of your mobility issues as you say you're running around a lot.

However, Cure Wounds is still a range of touch. If you can multi-class you can solve that by taking levels into Sorcerer and getting the Distant Spell Metamagic which turns touch spells into 30 feet, which with Spell Sniper would be 60 ft. That requires 3 levels into Sorcerer though, however, you can go Favored Soul, pick up an extra attack, and gain another Domain Spell list such as Life Domain for healing, Arcane for utility since you're missing a wizard (and magic weapon helps your melee weapon damage), or Death Domain for fun and stay Thematic. Really you can choose whatever domain you want as there are pros and cons to each, and Sorcerer opens up a lot of other options spell-wise as well. You'd focus on Wis instead of Str and Wis with this. You don't even need that high a level of Charisma with this build.

Cleric 14/ Sorcerer(Favored Soul) 6 would have an extra attack, plus the 2D8 additional melee damage per round at Cleric 14 (1D8 at Cleric 8). If you want to stay in melee, I would advise getting the Polearm Master feat and using a Quarterstaff with Shillelagh. You can use it one hand, keep a shield, and apply your Wis Mod to it, and also have 3 attacks (Extra attack, plus the PAM bonus action attack). You'd give up 8th and 9th level Cleric Spells for this though.


Alternatively, you can use Magic Initiate Feat and gain Shillelagh to use Wisdom instead of Strength and Thorn Whip for battlefield control as your Cantrips, and Thunderwave, for more battlefield control and AoE damage. With this you can have a weapon that uses your Wisdom instead of your Str/Dex, a way to pull an enemy 10 towards you, and a way to push all enemies in melee away from you.

[bid]

I'm can't afford more then 14 STR so, my meele hits are starting to be really bad. So i might as well drop STR and only use Sacred Flame. Or get Shillelagh.
Dex saves like sacred flame are around 3 point harder to hit than melee. Going shillelagh will mostly increase your chances to hit. It also does more damage level 8-10 and 14-16.

See shillelagh as an RP concept. If you also want to grab thunderclap, go for magic initiate.

OTOH, if thunderwave is important to your concept, you will need to sheath your weapon because it is a VS spell. Warcaster might be a good plan in that case.


In all cases, you can dump Str.

[Flashy]

Dex saves like sacred flame are around 3 point harder to hit than melee.

Not to mention that enemies with advantage on saving throws against magic become rampant in the CR 8-13 range.

[bid]

Never go melee but get Shillelagh? O.o It seems like he might be the tank so spellcasting in melee and generally not going in melee is kinda bad.
Choices 2-3 are alternative to "having fun as a tempest and never go melee". Clearer now?

I thought only ranged attacks were penalized by melee. Why would sacred flame be bad?

[RaynorReynolds]

Just switch the STR and CHR scores, and multiclass into sorcerer. :)

[Slipperychicken]

Just don't drop both strength and dex. You want either athletics or acrobatics so you can keep from being grappled, swallowed, or otherwise combat-maneuvered.

[RaynorReynolds]

Just don't drop both strength and dex. You want either athletics or acrobatics so you can keep from being grappled, swallowed, or otherwise combat-maneuvered.

Grappling isnt that bad when you are in a party. And there are so few monsters that can swallow you, it isnt worth it to keep STR above 8. You will benefit much better by raising your other stats.

[Slipperychicken]

Grappling isnt that bad when you are in a party. And there are so few monsters that can swallow you, it isnt worth it to keep STR above 8. You will benefit much better by raising your other stats.

It's not just grappling though, also stuff like restrained, prone, and shoved. A successful acrobatics check can mean a lot when denies advantage to an enemy's attacks, or keeps an enemy from dragging you off to be eaten.


I do agree about strength. Personally, I'd dump it and keep dex around 12-14 for acrobatics, dex saves, and non-garbage initiative. My advice was that it's okay to dump one, but not both.