Piercing the Heavens: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Warpriest

[N. Jolly]

Do the impossible
See the invisible
Row, row
Fight the powah!
(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-nEbro_tLQ0ILxUd4vmht46-d6nbLk0RUbSRO5xUgvo/edit?usp=sharing)
Welcome to my 8th guide, and this was one I did not out of a base love of the class (although it's REALLY growing on me), but out of a community need. I wrote a bit before what makes a guide like this difficult, and I haven't changed my opinion on that one bit, instead knowing that this will not be an easy guide for me to write.

I'm not incredibly well versed on some of the tricks and such, so I'll be depending on the community to tell me if I'm missing something or have something rated incredibly wrong due to forgetting about something, but I'm confident together we can all put together a guide that'll help everyone out!

This guide will probably be moving along a lot slower than my other guides due to the fact that I'm writing other things, and I'll have to split my time between them and this. I do want to get this guide done ASAPossible, but I can't promise anything.

And if you'd like to say thanks by making a donation to getting this guide finished, please click on the link in the guide to show your support. It'd help me out and give me more time to work on this guide.

Races is (mostly) finished off although if there's anything that should be added from newer books, I'm up for including it. Blessings are finished, and I'll probably be moving onto feats next.

Also might eventually do some 3P work for this, but if I do, it'll be done just like how the kineticist guide's 3P section is, completely sectioned off from everything else.

[Florian]

Hm ....

I think you should stress out more that this is a "true gish" class and has superior economy of actions while trading away staying power for that. The flame that burns double-bright only burns half as long and all that manure.

The regular feat chains work as expected (Archery, PA, TWF) to bring in the expected results, but I think it´s imported to stress where and when that expected results are beaten/raised. That will also carry over to the specific archetypes later on and will become an important fact of that class.
You should also incorporate the feat "Expanded Studies", as that allows a Warpriest to use any cleric-based Scrolls/Staves without further trouble, expanding options.

Further, I think it is important to point out that this class can do a lot of traditional cleric builds "on steroids", especially Bad Touch and Reach.

[N. Jolly]

Hm ....

I think you should stress out more that this is a "true gish" class and has superior economy of actions while trading away staying power for that. The flame that burns double-bright only burns half as long and all that manure.

The regular feat chains work as expected (Archery, PA, TWF) to bring in the expected results, but I think it´s imported to stress where and when that expected results are beaten/raised. That will also carry over to the specific archetypes later on and will become an important fact of that class.
You should also incorporate the feat "Expanded Studies", as that allows a Warpriest to use any cleric-based Scrolls/Staves without further trouble, expanding options.

Further, I think it is important to point out that this class can do a lot of traditional cleric builds "on steroids", especially Bad Touch and Reach.

I can do that, I'll probably expand upon that in the thoughts section, since it seems like the most reasonable section to do so.

For feats, I feel like the opener of the feats section does this well enough. I'm planning on doing archetypes next, so I can make sure to mention that as well.

As for bad touch and reach, I never actually checked out those builds, I always thought bad touch was based on domain abilities. I guess it could be done with blessings though. Is reach a variant of bad touch, or is this just talking about the issue of reach in general? Actually, is bad touch even viable without domain strike, which I thought was a crux of the build.

[Florian]

As for bad touch and reach, I never actually checked out those builds, I always thought bad touch was based on domain abilities. I guess it could be done with blessings though. Is reach a variant of bad touch, or is this just talking about the issue of reach in general?

This is all about economy of action while reaching highest efficiency.

"Reach" builds use the titular reach weapon along with Combat Reflexes to dish out AoOs after they have cast or attacked. You buff yourself high enough, the more enemies trigger attacks, the higher the efficiency here.

"Bad Touch" is about the ability to use channel energy, channel smite, channeling spell, domains and such as riders on your regular attack without a fuss. The more you can stack, the more brutal your single attack action is.

As you can imagine, both can be combined for lethal results.

With the Warpriest class, everything that we have learned up to now with the Cleric class can be used to very devastating results.

[N. Jolly]

This is all about economy of action while reaching highest efficiency.

"Reach" builds use the titular reach weapon along with Combat Reflexes to dish out AoOs after they have cast or attacked. You buff yourself high enough, the more enemies trigger attacks, the higher the efficiency here.

"Bad Touch" is about the ability to use channel energy, channel smite, channeling spell, domains and such as riders on your regular attack without a fuss. The more you can stack, the more brutal your single attack action is.

As you can imagine, both can be combined for lethal results.

With the Warpriest class, everything that we have learned up to now with the Cleric class can be used to very devastating results.

Well reach is a listed style, although it seems bad touch might need its own section.

Also while I agree with conductive abuse here (which I'll discuss later), there's no domain strike so blessings have to be pre-cast and held, channel energy isn't as viable due to how much fervor it uses unless you're burning feats on extra channel (which effectively hurts channel smite as well), no domain strike means no unarmed synergy, so I don't think bad touch is AS viable as it is with the cleric. Really, spell storing weapons + conductive is probably the best possible 'bad touch' build for this, although if I'm missing any possible way to use channel smite and friends more easily, please let me know.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I've heard good things about the Sacred Fist archetype, that's about it.

[Florian]

Well reach is a listed style, although it seems bad touch might need its own section.

Also while I agree with conductive abuse here (which I'll discuss later), there's no domain strike so blessings have to be pre-cast and held, channel energy isn't as viable due to how much fervor it uses unless you're burning feats on extra channel (which effectively hurts channel smite as well), no domain strike means no unarmed synergy, so I don't think bad touch is AS viable as it is with the cleric. Really, spell storing weapons + conductive is probably the best possible 'bad touch' build for this, although if I'm missing any possible way to use channel smite and friends more easily, please let me know.

Jupp, Domain Strike and stuff is still available on you´re missing out on some stuff here. But we´re nearing midnight, the clubs start open up and I´ll go try to have a great time. Will answer you tomorrow a bit more in-depth and not as terse as I usually do.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I've heard good things about the Sacred Fist archetype, that's about it.

Sacred Fist was nerfed heavily to use Warpriest baseline attack bonuses instead of your level as an attack bonus. This hurts their pummeling quite a bit as you don't get all the iterative attacks. You may be able to rules lawyer your way past that as the rules are written poorly, but that was the intend of the change. They're still fun to play, just not as optimized as they used to be.

N. Jolly, thank you for tackling this class. I was considering writing my own guide and now I don't have to! Would you mind including a reference of which weapons can be acquired by specific Golarion deities? That would be a super helpful resource.

You've already noted Fate's Favored & Divine Favor in the traits section. I'd also point out that a Pearl of Power 1 for 1,000 gold should be most Warpriest's first major purchase and you should be buying more of these as the game goes on. With 4 or 5 of these you can prepare Divine Favor once per day but still use it in every combat. Fill your other 1st level spell slots with utility options. If you have a day with very few fights you can use the Pearls to fuel extra utility spells or to cast a few extra Cure Light Wounds. Overall this is a very small financial investment for a huge boost in utility.

[N. Jolly]

Jupp, Domain Strike and stuff is still available on you´re missing out on some stuff here. But we´re nearing midnight, the clubs start open up and I´ll go try to have a great time. Will answer you tomorrow a bit more in-depth and not as terse as I usually do.

Not sure what Jupp is, and as far as I know, domain strike can't be used with a blessing. I did find Believer's Boon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/believer-s-boon), but one use of a domain ability a day does not make for an amazing bad touch. It doesn't look like there's any way to gain more uses of it either, so I'll be looking forward to what you have to say on the subject since I want to make this the best guide possible.


Sacred Fist was nerfed heavily to use Warpriest baseline attack bonuses instead of your level as an attack bonus. This hurts their pummeling quite a bit as you don't get all the iterative attacks. You may be able to rules lawyer your way past that as the rules are written poorly, but that was the intend of the change. They're still fun to play, just not as optimized as they used to be.

N. Jolly, thank you for tackling this class. I was considering writing my own guide and now I don't have to! Would you mind including a reference of which weapons can be acquired by specific Golarion deities? That would be a super helpful resource.

You've already noted Fate's Favored & Divine Favor in the traits section. I'd also point out that a Pearl of Power 1 for 1,000 gold should be most Warpriest's first major purchase and you should be buying more of these as the game goes on. With 4 or 5 of these you can prepare Divine Favor once per day but still use it in every combat. Fill your other 1st level spell slots with utility options. If you have a day with very few fights you can use the Pearls to fuel extra utility spells or to cast a few extra Cure Light Wounds. Overall this is a very small financial investment for a huge boost in utility.

Yeah, I want to like sacred fist more, but flurrying off of a 3/4ths BAB isn't what I want to do. It's fun and lowers feat requirements to TWF, but it's a sad drop.

I think I'm going to stay away from using specific deities in this, although I might include them, no promises here.

And yeah, pears of power are going to be purple for first level ones as more divine favor is really the only thing you need in life.

Archetypes should be tonight, let's see where I can get on that.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Good to know! I'm currently working through the archetypes for my Fighter guide... wish me luck.

[N. Jolly]

Just finished archetypes, doing VMC now, and yeah, now I'm seeing how bad touch is still very viable. Cleric VMC is heroic.

[Florian]

Just finished archetypes, doing VMC now, and yeah, now I'm seeing how bad touch is still very viable. Cleric VMC is heroic.

Sorry for the delayed answer. Rereading my posts, I must apologize that I did´t get my point across yesterday. I meant VMC Cleric and the Bad Touch style that comes along with it and how you can further upgrade and expand on that. The Warpriest is a very synergetic base class to work with this and the gains are simply phenomenal.
To clear up a misunderstanding that happened there because I did not mention the VMC itself: I was talking about how to expand further on that and branch out into access to additional Blessings/Domains/Domain Powers to use here.

As a side-note: Jupp is for german-speaking countries what Yeah is for english-speaking ones. Force of habit.

[N. Jolly]

Sorry for the delayed answer. Rereading my posts, I must apologize that I did´t get my point across yesterday. I meant VMC Cleric and the Bad Touch style that comes along with it and how you can further upgrade and expand on that. The Warpriest is a very synergetic base class to work with this and the gains are simply phenomenal.
To clear up a misunderstanding that happened there because I did not mention the VMC itself: I was talking about how to expand further on that and branch out into access to additional Blessings/Domains/Domain Powers to use here.

As a side-note: Jupp is for german-speaking countries what Yeah is for english-speaking ones. Force of habit.

It's all good, I figured it would be something like that, I just hadn't gotten to that section of the guide yet. It hasn't been since the alchemist guide that I've had something with this many options, so sometimes it takes quite a while to get to the ones that people want included.

[Serafina]

Just finished archetypes, doing VMC now, and yeah, now I'm seeing how bad touch is still very viable. Cleric VMC is heroic.At least at high-levels (fortunately one can retrain into a VMC), Fighter-VMC is almost mandatory for an Arsenal Chaplain.

Getting two extra levels of weapon training actually means that you are now better at Weapon Training than the Fighter - theirs can go up to +4(6), while yours will be +6(8).
You also get one Advanced Weapon Training for free, if only at level 19.
But you can take it via feats earlier, and it'll pay off at level 11 already - at that point, you're basically trading three feats (three from VMC, one for AWT) for full movement in medium armor, +1 to attack and damage and and up to two of the following for the cost of another feat each:

three feats from the weapon styles or other feats that require picking a weapon
+3 to will saves
+5 to damage if you're using weapon finesse or thrown weapons
+5 to Reflex saves
+5 to Initiative
Weapon Sacrifice 5 timers per day

You'll improve all of that by +1 at Level 13, 17 and 19 (except the will saves, those only go up at 15 and 19) and get two more choices at level 15 and 19 (the latter even for free).


You probably know all that, but I just thought it was worth pointing out, and maybe inclusion in a later build-section

[Serafina]

And a note on the Madness-Blessing:
The point of Madness Supremacy is not to target yourself or your allies to relieve them off the condition for one round. Instead, you target an enemy with it to get a 50% chance that they'll attack an ally of theirs. It's quite position-dependent (the targeted enemy needs to have someone you want them to attack nearest), but it's still a decent ability if you build for it.

Now obviously, any such build would ideally work off Frightening enemies, since it's the easiest condition to achieve among them. That'd still require you to really build for it, and potentially to work with another character - so the yellow rating isn't really off, it's just worth pointing out that it has more uses.

[Genth]

On page 3, under 'two weapon fighting', you want to read 'iterative' instead of 'initiative' :)

[N. Jolly]

At least at high-levels (fortunately one can retrain into a VMC), Fighter-VMC is almost mandatory for an Arsenal Chaplain.

Getting two extra levels of weapon training actually means that you are now better at Weapon Training than the Fighter - theirs can go up to +4(6), while yours will be +6(8).
You also get one Advanced Weapon Training for free, if only at level 19.
But you can take it via feats earlier, and it'll pay off at level 11 already - at that point, you're basically trading three feats (three from VMC, one for AWT) for full movement in medium armor, +1 to attack and damage and and up to two of the following for the cost of another feat each:

three feats from the weapon styles or other feats that require picking a weapon
+3 to will saves
+5 to damage if you're using weapon finesse or thrown weapons
+5 to Reflex saves
+5 to Initiative
Weapon Sacrifice 5 timers per day

You'll improve all of that by +1 at Level 13, 17 and 19 (except the will saves, those only go up at 15 and 19) and get two more choices at level 15 and 19 (the latter even for free).

You probably know all that, but I just thought it was worth pointing out, and maybe inclusion in a later build-section

Oh, I know it's a solid VMC, probably one of the best. Really, fighter mittens help make AWT something sexy. I'll probably include a build for that later in the guide, but it's nice seeing a breakdown of things like this.


And a note on the Madness-Blessing:
The point of Madness Supremacy is not to target yourself or your allies to relieve them off the condition for one round. Instead, you target an enemy with it to get a 50% chance that they'll attack an ally of theirs. It's quite position-dependent (the targeted enemy needs to have someone you want them to attack nearest), but it's still a decent ability if you build for it.

Now obviously, any such build would ideally work off Frightening enemies, since it's the easiest condition to achieve among them. That'd still require you to really build for it, and potentially to work with another character - so the yellow rating isn't really off, it's just worth pointing out that it has more uses.

I still don't like it a lot, but I can see the value, it's just that the variable nature of it still makes it weak to me.


On page 3, under 'two weapon fighting', you want to read 'iterative' instead of 'initiative' :)

And changed.

All spells have now been added, we're literally at just mundane and magical items to finish off the guide, as well as a few sample builds (why must people need them?) before I can put this chubby babby to bed.

[Daimon]

Amazing guide! One of the best I ever read!
Will you be updating the build sessions any time soon? I need of inspiration for my Warpriest Archer! :smallbiggrin:
Thanks!

[Larsen]

You rate Transfer Magic of the Artifice blessing red.

I saw it at one of the best, if you can have some shurikens (cost 1/50th) with the bane properties for several types of creatures. Then just transfert the bane property to your main weapon.

Is that not legal ?

[Sayt]

You rate Transfer Magic of the Artifice blessing red.

I saw it at one of the best, if you can have some shurikens (cost 1/50th) with the bane properties for several types of creatures. Then just transfer the bane property to your main weapon.

Is that not legal ?
You enchant 50 shurikens, those shurikens all have the same bane. Unless your GM specifically allows you too buy individual Bane Shurikens, it's probably not going to fly, which is getting into the same argument as partially charged wands and Manifesting Arrows.

[Larsen]

The listed price being for 50 ammunition doesn't mean you have to create 50.
What is preventing you from creating only one at the price of one ?

As for buying, why would merchants only want to sell in package of 50 ? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Sayt]

My understanding is that a bundle or quiver of ammunition is one magical 'item', and so it is completed when the entire cost-time of the item is completed. But in absence of a specific injunction, lets assume that you can craft partial stacks of magical ammunition.

You can only craft one magic item per day. You can craft up to 2000 gp in an eight hour period (By increasing the craft DC by +5), and you can't craft more than 8 hours a day. If each piece of magical ammunition is an individual item, you can make one piece of magical ammunition per day. If each partial stack of ammunition is

A 'deck' (i.e., 50. I don't know the correct proper noun for a group of shuriken) of +1 Bane Shurikens has a market value of 4310gp, which takes 3 or 5 days to make as a single item and nets the merchant 2155~ in profit (Assuming he produces himself or buys at near-production cost).

An optimally constructed partial deck made in one day is 23 +1 Bane Shurikens. It costs a little under 2000gp, and nets the merchant a little under a 1000gp for a days work. All of these shurkien have the same specification for the bane quality (As it is chosen for the item/batch).

A single +1 Bane Shuriken has a market value of 86.2 gp (I believe!), and takes .5 or 1 working day to complete, but nothing else can be produced by that crafter on that day, so the merchant makes 43.1 gp.

So you're right, packages of 50 is not a good saleable unit, 23 is, because it's the same time:profit ratio as 50, but he can build it in one day without committing to a higher volume of stock he doesn't necessarily need. If he doesn't sell by the stack, he runs the risk of being left with 2 random bane shurikens.

If you want to commission individual bane shurikens from a magic crafter, you better hope he isn't busy, because if he gets offered a chance to make a +1 Longsword for 1000gp, he's going to make the sword instead of your shuriken, unless he's a fool.

[Larsen]

We are derailing this thread a bit... But I guess it is an unavoidable thing on internet forums.

If the PC is the crafter, i doubt he has the money to be crafting costly items every day anyways so small crafting days should not be a problem unless the campaign is on a tight schedule.


Ok, so the pakage selling makes sense if the vendor is the creator and is busy crafting every day so only works on commissions.

But magic items don't go only from creator to end user, there are second hand items, loot found by adventurers sold to merchants...

[N. Jolly]

Amazing guide! One of the best I ever read!
Will you be updating the build sessions any time soon? I need of inspiration for my Warpriest Archer! :smallbiggrin:
Thanks!

Builds are always the last section for me, and while I'd like to get to it, it'll probably be a while before I can get to them. The daunting task of just how MANY builds I could list is still warding me away from it.


You rate Transfer Magic of the Artifice blessing red.

I saw it at one of the best, if you can have some shurikens (cost 1/50th) with the bane properties for several types of creatures. Then just transfert the bane property to your main weapon.

Is that not legal ?
There's a lot of grey area in what you can buy, and while picking up a collection of +1 bane shurikens would probably push this up to green or blue (still not in love with the duration), the assumption of the game is that you have to buy stacks of ammo. In this situation, it's red.

Getting some work done on other guides now, I want to get back to this one eventually, but with how close it is to being finished, I'm not in a huge hurry.

[Reaperess]

Hey, I'm pretty new to these forums, but I've been playing Pathfinder off and on for a few years. Not going to pretend like this makes me an expert on anything, I'm only human-ish.

Anyway, I wanted to point out that the Sacred Fist Archetype is pretty bomb. Especially with a 1 or 2 level dip into Martial Artist Monk, for Evassion AND extra WIS to AC. Normally, you wouldn't double up on a stat for something like that, but, as far as I can tell, the WIS bonus from the monk is like saying "x has the common sense to move" and the bonus from the warpriest is "x's Deity protects them that much" . Also, being able to Flurry of Blows with whatever your Deity's favored weapon is is beyond awesome. (great sword, great axe, Falchion, scythe, falchion, or scimitar are my favorites). Pick your favorite 2H or High Crit Weapon and enjoy.

Yeah, you lose out on a bit of spell casting, but if you're going Sacred Fist you're probably less focused on magic than you are on Flurry, at least by a little. Granted, this is only made viable after getting Crusaders Flurry (Requires Weapon focus with Deity's favored weapon), which can be a bit if a feat tax, but I think the pro's far outweighs the con's for that.

At higher levels, you might lament the loss of Armor just for the special abilities, and not needing to take up other slots just to boost your AC some, it makes them a pretty effective Evassion Tank.

So, personally, I feel like the Archetype is a bit better than was mentioned.

[the_archduke]

Stacking Monk and Sacred Fist will not work to get 2x wis to AC. From the AC Bonus class feature description

"This counts as the monk ability of the same name, and the sacred fist’s warpriest levels stack with monk levels for determining the benefits."

[Reaperess]

Stacking Monk and Sacred Fist will not work to get 2x wis to AC. From the AC Bonus class feature description

"This counts as the monk ability of the same name, and the sacred fist’s warpriest levels stack with monk levels for determining the benefits."

*Double checks* huh, good point. Hero labs does it that way, which is why I thought that. My bad.

I still think that the Crusaders Flurry feat is worth mentioning for it, and makes it a more viable option. :)

Edit: Geez, what is wrong with me. I will say, instead, that it's a really fun thing to play. Throw in a focus for charging, and Dragon style, and I think it's pretty solid. :)

[FabulousChester]

I am saddened by the exclusion of Vanara. No Monkey King love?

[N. Jolly]

I am saddened by the exclusion of Vanara. No Monkey King love?

One day I will return to this guide, but I've been super busy with other projects, so I'll hit up monkey love...some day...