Who could've teleported Roy?

[Rift_Wolf]

A thought experiment; which of the Asgardian Gods have the Travel Domain (or access to other non-personal teleport spells) and of those Gods, which ones against destroying the world?

This isn't a nitpick or anything, just wondering if anyone in particular could've, even if they didn't.

[Anteros]

If nothing else, there are probably high level wizards also in an area with so many high level clerics. There's nothing to say every bodyguard has to be a fighter. They also probably have quite a few magic items between them. Given the levels in question, it's pretty likely that at least a few people there have access to the resources Roy needs.

[Hiro Quester]

Odur (Deities and Demigods p.186),God of the Sun has access to the travel domain.

But Odur did not send a representative to the Godsmoot. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html

None of the gods with representatives there have the Travel domain.

[factotum]

If nothing else, there are probably high level wizards also in an area with so many high level clerics.

Don't see that necessarily follows--mind you, I'm still not sure why high level priests need bodyguards at all! Which might explain why so few of them seem to be in the viewing gallery, they simply don't have them--Wrecan is basically there to ensure Veldrina doesn't try petting a green dragon, and Roy was largely there through trickery (on his *and* Durkula's behalf).

[Onyavar]

My question is: Who would've?

For example, the High Priest of Dvalin would should have been inclined to transport Roy and his team. Since his Lord is lawful, helping a lawful team keeping a lawful meeting uninfluenced, is quite his thing. Of course, his domain might be lacking, just as most of the other priests there.

Well, Hermod should have the travel domain, no? Demigod of messagers? Well, maybe lacking the necessary level.

I assume most of them might at least be willing, but unable to. Although the overwehlming response when Roy asked, does really give a feeling of resignation.

[Emanick]

It occurs to me that Roy really should have checked with the bodyguards upstairs before leaving. They probably feel far less obligated to carry out the gods' wishes than the high priests do, and they may not all have heard him - and/or might be more willing to give him teleport devices/spells in private.

[goodpeople25]

What spells would work for the HPs in this case anyway?
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't (greater) teleport require the caster also teleport? And with the barrier i doubt that's possible for high priests if it's selective for those with a role in the moot.
Now bodyguards might not be restricted but they might be, and i would put the odds at a teleport capable spellcaster being there quite low

[Enero Irontoad]

Roy would need to leave to collect the rest of the Order anyway. The yellow barrier might keep them from getting back in. Not certain though, considering the vampires were able to get in.

[Hiro Quester]

Well, Hermod should have the travel domain, no? Demigod of messagers? Well, maybe lacking the necessary level.


Hermod's priests do have the travel domain. But Hermod didn't have a representative there either.

There are a few deities missing, and some new ones, in this depiction of the Northern pantheon, compared to the Asgardian pantheon in D&D.

I just noticed that he introduces Sunna, goddess of the Sun. She replaces Odur, I guess. It's possible Sunna's priest could help.

But Sunna voted to nuke the world from orbit. So maybe just unwilling to help Roy save the world.

[Rift_Wolf]

What spells would work for the HPs in this case anyway?
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't (greater) teleport require the caster also teleport? And with the barrier i doubt that's possible for high priests if it's selective for those with a role in the moot.
Now bodyguards might not be restricted but they might be, and i would put the odds at a teleport capable spellcaster being there quite low

That's a good point.
Unless MitD is on the Nature's Ally list. :p

As for bodyguards... It's possible there's some Wizards, I guess. We've only seen the ones nearest to Roy and Wrecan. I can imagine Hpo Vafthrudnir popping in like that. Especially after the other high priests completed a long pilgrimage.

I guess my original question is answered; by RAW nobody could've, without resorting to supposition. Curiosity satisfied.

[NerdyKris]

It occurs to me that Roy really should have checked with the bodyguards upstairs before leaving. They probably feel far less obligated to carry out the gods' wishes than the high priests do, and they may not all have heard him - and/or might be more willing to give him teleport devices/spells in private.

I'd assume none of them have an appropriate spell either. It just looked better to frame it as just the priests than to zoom way out to show the bodyguards listening as well. It's assuming that if only Rich had made Roy also check with the bodyguards whom we know nothing about, the plot would suddenly change. The assumption should instead be that the question was directed at everyone in the room and nobody offered.


I mean, unless there's a punchline later where a wizard leans over to another bodyguard after Roy leaves and says "Wait, what was he asking about?". That would actually be kind of funny, but it wouldn't make sense for Roy not to scan the balcony for magic users.

[Alchemist_Fire]

Hermod didn't have a representative there either.

Hermod did send a messenger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1012.html); that messenger, however, apparently did not meet Roy's requirements of willingness and ability.

[Quartz]

Interestingly the Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) spell - which any cleric of sufficient ability can cast - won't work as it requires that the two ends be on separate planes.

[factotum]

Interestingly the Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) spell - which any cleric of sufficient ability can cast - won't work as it requires that the two ends be on separate planes.

That's not a problem, so long as you have someone on the other plane who can *also* cast Gate to bring you back again... :smallsmile:

[Anteros]

I find it strange that everyone seems to assume that in a room full of high level casters who have traveled to a remote location, and who all need to go home after, no one has prepared a travel method. If nothing else, someone should know a wizard capable of casting teleport they can send a message to.

[Quartz]

I find it strange that everyone seems to assume that in a room full of high level casters who have traveled to a remote location, and who all need to go home after, no one has prepared a travel method.

Going home is easy: they just use Word of Recall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wordOfRecall.htm).

[NerdyKris]

I find it strange that everyone seems to assume that in a room full of high level casters who have traveled to a remote location, and who all need to go home after, no one has prepared a travel method. If nothing else, someone should know a wizard capable of casting teleport they can send a message to.

Which Roy just asked them about and nobody offered. Even if you assume the clerics aren't going to help him interfere, the bodyguards, who were shocked by the vote, certainly would be willing to help out, and they aren't either. Nobody in the room is both able and willing to help him.

[Anteros]

Willingness being the primary limiting factor here in my mind rather than ability.

[goodpeople25]

I find ability to be just as much a factor, (greater) teleport is most likely out for the High priests due to the barrier, and i can't think of other spells capable of suitable non personal transport. And for body guards it is possible they are under the same restriction of non personal teleports , and i find the idea of a full Arcane caster being a bodyguard to be pretty unlikely for class friction reasons and there not being much need for a teleport capable caster to stay at the moot if you have word of recall which is likely if you have a teleport capable ally. I find the bodyguards are mainly for the journey anyway, both for danger and just the buddy system being ideal.

Now yes magic items, but teleport items seem like they would be rare.

[Seward]

Going home is easy: they just use Word of Recall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wordOfRecall.htm).

Right, and that means at least one probably lives near or in the Dwarven lands. Especially the cleric of the demigod of Dwarves, or Thor's priest.

Failing that, SOMEBODY in that room knows a high enough level arcane caster. A Sending to a Sorcerer who knows Teleport and, you know, cares about the world ending soon, would handle it nicely.

The more obvious option if that didn't work out would be wind walk. A bunch of them probably have that spell prepped.

[Quartz]

Right, and that means at least one probably lives near or in the Dwarven lands. Especially the cleric of the demigod of Dwarves

Who has just left...

[NerdyKris]

No, the cleric is still there. Dvalin is consulting with the council, but his proxy has to stay just like everyone else's.

Not that it matters. If anyone has the ability to teleport the Order without also leaving the chamber and negating their god's vote, they aren't offering it.

[Phoniex]

depending on who knows who.. even a high priest without the travel domain, but who knows sending and a arcane spell caster who can pop in and then pop out (on the door step of the building if nothing else) was reasonable if the high priest was motivated. The real question is were any of the high priests there motivated to help or harm the order's mission.. the answer was no because the plot needed to not put another hurdle in front of the order and because the order did not need a huge god/church like ally at this point. This was a way for the giant to introduce all these great and powerful gods/churchs/clerics and show why they are not just "fixing" the problem of team evil or the snarl.

[jere7my]

A thought experiment; which of the Asgardian Gods have the Travel Domain (or access to other non-personal teleport spells) and of those Gods, which ones against destroying the world?

This isn't a nitpick or anything, just wondering if anyone in particular could've, even if they didn't.

The gods of Rich's Northern Pantheon are not the gods of Deities and Demigods, so it's...

...a moot point.

[Vinyadan]

Is Sending a spell you always want to have prepared? Veldrina is a favoured soul, but the others may simply not have prepared it. It would be unusual, but possible. More importantly, they may have been worried about avoiding an excalation as the one Roy fears while talking with Veldrina.
Besides, they can't send from there. One more moot point.

[factotum]

Well, you'd expect a high-ranking priest who knows they're going to be away from HQ a while to prepare some means of communicating back home, in case they need to send a message in an emergency. Don't forget that the actual Godsmoot was only supposed to last a few minutes while the vote took place, so knowing that the Sending would be blocked during it wouldn't be a good reason to not prepare the spell.

[Vinyadan]

That makes sense. The problem that remains is that they can't send during the Godsmoot, and they cannot leave it without naming a high priest instead of them, and therefore cannot contact a sorcerer to teleport Roy, unless they feel like giving up their role to a bodyguard who might be much less resistant than they are to possible assaults, making so more likely that their god's vote is nullified though the demise of the high priest.

[Rift_Wolf]

The gods of Rich's Northern Pantheon are not the gods of Deities and Demigods, so it's...

...a moot point.

I'm aware of that; if you want the longhand,

'if the Order of the Stick was a D&D campaign being run with RAW and the Northern Gods were using the Asgardian Gods as their template, which of the Northern Gods could have aided Roy, even if they weren't Willing to?'

The fact Odin doesn't have the Travel Domain is odd. Isn't he the Wanderer?

[Vinyadan]

I'm aware of that; if you want the longhand,

'if the Order of the Stick was a D&D campaign being run with RAW and the Northern Gods were using the Asgardian Gods as their template, which of the Northern Gods could have aided Roy, even if they weren't Willing to?'

The fact Odin doesn't have the Travel Domain is odd. Isn't he the Wanderer?

He may simply have more. Knowledge, Dwarf, Magic, Healing, Death, War, Fate... And the high priest chose the ones she liked the most.

[Yendor]

None of the priests can leave. If any of the bodyguards were able to help, they'd almost certainly need their employer's consent to do so. And if they don't have permission, well, they've just seen that there's nothing stopping a priest from fighting their own bodyguard.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The question isn't just who has access to teleportation spells, or even who would be willing to use them on Roy, but who has a spell prepared for sending someone else somewhere.


...Or which high priest didn't want to spend hours of wind-walking or days of sailing to go home and brought a teleportation item for them and their entourage. It seems likely that at least one Nay-priest would be such, and also be willing to let Roy use it to save the world. Which just goes to show that this entire arc is built around what would be least convenient.

[Vinyadan]

The question isn't just who has access to teleportation spells, or even who would be willing to use them on Roy, but who has a spell prepared for sending someone else somewhere.


...Or which high priest didn't want to spend hours of wind-walking or days of sailing to go home and brought a teleportation item for them and their entourage. It seems likely that at least one Nay-priest would be such, and also be willing to let Roy use it to save the world. Which just goes to show that this entire arc is built around what would be least convenient.

We don't know that they don't have the item; we just know that they won't use it on Roy. As I said, it may be out of fear of an escalation. After all, nothing would be stopping some evil cleric of "yes" from killing Roy on the spot, but the fear of reprisal.

[littlebum2002]

But Sunna voted to nuke the world from orbit. So maybe just unwilling to help Roy save the world.


We don't know that they don't have the item; we just know that they won't use it on Roy. As I said, it may be out of fear of an escalation. After all, nothing would be stopping some evil cleric of "yes" from killing Roy on the spot, but the fear of reprisal.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why do you guys think a deity who wants to destroy the world to keep the snarl from killing everything would be hostile to someone who is trying to protect the world from the snarl? I mean just because they're willing to destroy the world to keep the snarl from getting out in no way implies they'll try to kill someone who is also trying to keep the snarl from getting out. If anything, they would seem MORE inclined to help him.

[Vinyadan]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why do you guys think a deity who wants to destroy the world to keep the snarl from killing everything would be hostile to someone who is trying to protect the world from the snarl? I mean just because they're willing to destroy the world to keep the snarl from getting out in no way implies they'll try to kill someone who is also trying to keep the snarl from getting out. If anything, they would seem MORE inclined to help him.

I'm talking about Roy who is going after the vampires to stop them from obtaining a yes vote from Dvalinn and the victory of the yes front, not about Roy the Gatehugger. If immediate destruction of the world appears to the Yessers as the best route, Roy the Gatehugger becomes useless, and Roy the Vampirepursuer becomes a dangerous hindrance.

[NerdyKris]

What spell exactly could the clerics even cast that

A) doesn't remove the caster from the chamber
B) Would be something they'd have prepared, and potentially five times if it's a single target spell

Even if they sent to a wizard, that wizard would both need to have two teleports prepared to help.

And on top of all that, they might not want to risk a fight in aiding someone who is going to interfere in the vote, even if it's to stop someone else interfering.

[Vinyadan]

What spell exactly could the clerics even cast that

A) doesn't remove the caster from the chamber


This is where my ignorance of rules overcomes me. Isn't there a teleport other spell? Could they planeshift Roy to somewhere friendly and have him planeshifted at the right location?

Besides, the clerics might even have had some transportation spells prepared, but converted them while fighting the vampires. Wouldn't that be funny. Or are they all domain spells?

[factotum]

This is where my ignorance of rules overcomes me. Isn't there a teleport other spell? Could they planeshift Roy to somewhere friendly and have him planeshifted at the right location?

Not in RAW. Plane Shift itself can't be used with any precision--you can appear up to 500 miles off target, and you would also have the same issue as Gate does, namely, you need somebody with appropriate spells prepared to be waiting on the alternate plane in order to send the travellers back to the correct plane. Teleport and its variant always teleports the caster as well. Teleportation Circle would be the best option, but it's a 9th level Arcane spell and thus not available to anybody likely to be in the area of the Godsmoot.

[NerdyKris]

And I'm assuming Wind Walk isn't going to go any faster than an airship, or would be too dangerous in the mountains, on top of needing five of them prepared.

[Hecuba]

Not in RAW. Plane Shift itself can't be used with any precision--you can appear up to 500 miles off target, and you would also have the same issue as Gate does, namely, you need somebody with appropriate spells prepared to be waiting on the alternate plane in order to send the travellers back to the correct plane. Teleport and its variant always teleports the caster as well. Teleportation Circle would be the best option, but it's a 9th level Arcane spell and thus not available to anybody likely to be in the area of the Godsmoot.

It's worth noting that, by RAW, there are:

A couple spells that can be used to teleport others and not yourself
A couple options available to clerics (or, at least, Clerics with certain domains)


To my knowledge, however, they don't overlap. Moreover, most of them would represent the Giant reaching really far into the obscure spell collection for something that would undercut the plot.

And I'm talking really obscure here, just to meet one of the two requirements:
Door of Decay allows a Cleric to teleport from one willing, friendly unread to another. That could probably be arranged in the current company if one of the nicer deities didn't mind playing with Corpses (which I would imagine is usually Hel's beat). It does not, however, allow sending someone else or taking passengers.
Trobriand's Baleful Teleport can teleport another person, even unwilling. It's W/S only.
I think there's also an 8th level in a 3e FR book that makes same-plane portal and takes something like 10 minutes to cast, but I can't remember the name of it and believe it was also W/S only.
There are several options that would work in other locations: cities, swamps, forests, deserts. Not so much for the inside of an isolated building. And most of these are on the druid list, not the cleric list.

The best solution I can think of, short of Miracle, would be: Polymorph Any Object to turn Roy into an object instead of a person. Then Teleport Object to send him to the location. And that would require convenient access to both the Trickery and Greed domains.

[Emanick]

We don't know that they don't have the item; we just know that they won't use it on Roy. As I said, it may be out of fear of an escalation. After all, nothing would be stopping some evil cleric of "yes" from killing Roy on the spot, but the fear of reprisal.

Since Hel is so unpopular, many high priests who voted Yes may no longer be sure that their god is cool with ending the world, now that they know the consequences. Even if they're evil. I mean, it seems like Hel is a total outcast - you may think that your evil god is cool with a Queen Hel, but can you really be sure?

[Reboot]

There are several options that would work in other locations: cities, swamps, forests, deserts. Not so much for the inside of an isolated building. And most of these are on the druid list, not the cleric list.
Some of the High Priests are druids per Vel, not just clerics. (Freya's High Priestess, as a Lirian-lookalike, seems like a likely candidate for druidship). But OOTS pretty much only uses SRD and homebrew spells, not stuff from splatbooks.


Since Hel is so unpopular, many high priests who voted Yes may no longer be sure that their god is cool with ending the world, now that they know the consequences. Even if they're evil. I mean, it seems like Hel is a total outcast - you may think that your evil god is cool with a Queen Hel, but can you really be sure?

But how far would they go? As said, it's pretty unlikely anyone COULD have teleported Roy (let alone others). But if you're certain, from years of communion/etc, that your god would have changed their vote knowing the full facts as they now appear... well... it becomes a numbers game. If you can take out two or more voters on the "other" side in a surprise round (or close enough), then they can only legally take YOU out, not any of the other voters. Of course, they could make the same calculation, but without the element of surprise, and would have to do so before the "new" result kicked in.

[Emanick]

But how far would they go? As said, it's pretty unlikely anyone COULD have teleported Roy (let alone others). But if you're certain, from years of communion/etc, that your god would have changed their vote knowing the full facts as they now appear... well... it becomes a numbers game. If you can take out two or more voters on the other side in a surprise round (or close enough), then the other side can only legally take YOU out, not any of the other voters. Of course, they could make the same calculation, but without the element of surprise, and would have to do so before the "new" result kicked in.

I must not have been clear enough, because that has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. My point was that there *is* in fact something still stopping evil clerics of 'Yes' gods from killing Roy, besides fear of reprisal, that is: the fear that their god actually might no longer want the world to be destroyed. What if they kill Roy, the world duly ends and their evil god is furious at them for making Hel the pantheon's Queen? Talk about an eternal nightmare.

[Hecuba]

Some of the High Priests are druids per Vel, not just clerics. (Freya's High Priestess, as a Lirian-lookalike, seems like a likely candidate for druidship). But OOTS pretty much only uses SRD and homebrew spells, not stuff from splatbooks.

That, or she could be a Cleric with the plant and/or animal domains domain. And actually, if she is a druid, the obscurity of the splatbooks wouldn't matter: transport via plants is core. Of course, we'd still need a medium or larger plant (and tree feather is not core) and that wouldn't get around the fact that she would need to come with.

It would, however, at least be slightly less of a reach than Door of Decay and company.

[Vinyadan]

Since Hel is so unpopular, many high priests who voted Yes may no longer be sure that their god is cool with ending the world, now that they know the consequences. Even if they're evil. I mean, it seems like Hel is a total outcast - you may think that your evil god is cool with a Queen Hel, but can you really be sure?

You know, I had totally misunderstood this, too. Yes, it would be a somewhat more cautious way of proceeding. I wonder if I also misunderstood Littlebum.

However, there still is the problem of the Snarl already capable of attacking outside the gate, and the fact that, for the gods, some thousand years under Hel's control might be better than being killed outright.

About the idea that the priests surely would have wanted to get there fast and zap back quickly: we have seen the priestess of Hoder taking the chance to visit a temple, and it would make sense if such travels also were the chance for pastoral visits in regions which are otherwise left alone.

[Cazero]

Since Hel is so unpopular, many high priests who voted Yes may no longer be sure that their god is cool with ending the world, now that they know the consequences. Even if they're evil. I mean, it seems like Hel is a total outcast - you may think that your evil god is cool with a Queen Hel, but can you really be sure?

What gave you that strange idea that Hel is an outcast? For what we know, she lost a stupid bet that denied her the possibility to ever show up on meetings - until now.
And considering the Yes voters :

Tyr doesn't give a damn. The war against the Snarl takes priority.
Heimdal votes for safety. That's why he voted yes in the first place and the situation didn't change.
Sunna might take offense at a world with more undead. But then that would also mean that more mortals would worship her for her protection.
Njord is bored of the world and wants to try out a new coastline. Not exactly an example of wisdom or care.
Skadi votes for safety. She says so explicitly and will do so again.
Hoder thinks that world's time has passed. Not much sense in not destroying it now if you think it will collapse by itself soon.
Fenrir is the god of monsters, and it shows. His reason is litteraly the enjoyment of mass-scale murder.
Vafthrudnir votes for keeping the Snarl a secret. That implies the immediate termination of the life of everyone who knows, aka ending the world.


So maybe Sunna would consider voting no instead. And that's about it.

[Deliverance]

Since Hel is so unpopular, many high priests who voted Yes may no longer be sure that their god is cool with ending the world, now that they know the consequences. Even if they're evil. I mean, it seems like Hel is a total outcast - you may think that your evil god is cool with a Queen Hel, but can you really be sure?
Hel is unpopular amongst the dwarves, who don't like the Keeper of the dishonoured dwarven dead, and Thor is certainly taking clear advantage of rules-lawyering whatever agreement it is he had with Hel (see e.g. comparative theology (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html)), but I don't think we've seen anything to indicate that she's unpopular amongst the gods in general. Why would she be?

[factotum]

Just a correction: wasn't it Loki who was the prime instigator of the agreement that prevents Hel having a voice at the Godsmoot, not Thor? I recall that being the case from their conversation earlier, but I may be misremembering. Otherwise I agree with Deliverance--there's no evidence Hel is generally considered an outcast among the other Northern gods.

[Chronos]

Hel is quick to point out, after revealing her scheme, that the other gods aren't allowed to change their vote. And Loki immediately regrets having pushed for that rule. That implies that at least some of them would want to, if they could.

And Gate could do the job: The cleric casts a Gate to someplace safe like Celestia, the party and cleric steps through, the cleric casts another Gate back to the appropriate point on the material, the party steps through the new Gate, and the cleric steps back through the old one. But this would require two ninth-level spells, which it's not even a given that anyone in the room can cast at all, and would require that they had prepared Gate twice.

[Vinyadan]

Hel is quick to point out, after revealing her scheme, that the other gods aren't allowed to change their vote. And Loki immediately regrets having pushed for that rule. That implies that at least some of them would want to, if they could.

And Gate could do the job: The cleric casts a Gate to someplace safe like Celestia, the party and cleric steps through, the cleric casts another Gate back to the appropriate point on the material, the party steps through the new Gate, and the cleric steps back through the old one. But this would require two ninth-level spells, which it's not even a given that anyone in the room can cast at all, and would require that they had prepared Gate twice.

The priests are not allowed to leave.

[NerdyKris]

I feel like most complaints that this arc makes no sense are because people are forgetting or mis-remembering a rule and not realizing it.

[littlebum2002]

I'm talking about Roy who is going after the vampires to stop them from obtaining a yes vote from Dvalinn and the victory of the yes front, not about Roy the Gatehugger. If immediate destruction of the world appears to the Yessers as the best route, Roy the Gatehugger becomes useless, and Roy the Vampirepursuer becomes a dangerous hindrance.

Gotcha, that does make sense then