WIP: Huh, Fighters Don't Suck - Nightbringer's Guide to the Fighter

[NightbringerGGZ]

Huh, Fighters Don't Suck - Nightbringer's Guide to the Pathfinder Fighter (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q5l2KQRI55azlsLrVS4QfZ-4UWUxmKtgQYesvnWueis/edit?usp=sharing)

I was talking with a friend at my local comic shop and we started talking about all the new class options in Pathfinder. He mentioned that it was a shame that the Fighter sucked again (in comparison to all the new classes) and I argued with him a bit. Turns out he wasn't aware of all the new options for the Fighter as they've mostly been printed in the player companions. So I tried to track down a good Fighter guide for him and to my surprise we really don't have one that's up-to-date. Rogue Eidolon's only covers Core material while other guides are for very specific builds. So, I've taken it upon myself to start writing up a brand new guide this weekend.

This guide is going to be huge. I plan on covering every thing that is relevant to optimizing a fighter, including all archetypes, feats, combat stamina bonuses and so on. I'm already 20 pages in and not even halfway through the archetypes, so this will take me awhile. Since I have a decent amount on paper though I thought I'd start asking for people's thoughts.

Of particular interest right now are some thoughts on Alternate Weapon Training. I love these options and may have overvalued them due to my enthusiasm. I welcome all feedback and thoughts however!

Status Update: 2/15/2016
I wrapped up the remaining archetypes (excluding race-specific archetypes) on my lunch break. Please review and provide feedback.

[N. Jolly]

Looks like a strong start to the guide, although for races I'd consider listing some strong contenders in the 'other races' section, things like lizardfolk, certain aasimar/tieflings/skinwalkers, and things like that. Not necessarily putting the bestiary in there, but enough so that you can have some non core options that are worth checking out.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I'll eventually cover all the races, but that was taking quite a bit of time so I moved on to Archetypes as the most important feature to cover. This will wind up being a pretty huge guide and I'll probably wind up using parts of it to start a few others. A guide to Combat Stamina in particular is needed.

[bobthehero]

Fighters being my favorite class ever by far means I'll keep a very close eye on this.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Well it's pretty late but I only have another 13 archetypes to go, not counting race-specific ones which I'll add at a later date. I'll keep working on this, but expect it to be a very long term project as there is a huge amount of material to cover when it comes to the fighter.

If you have any thoughts or feedback please leave it here. I'm only sharing this WIP version with GitP so I'll have a consolidated place for feedback.

[Tuvarkz]

Combat Competence: with Gloves of Dueling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gloves-of-dueling) you get full weapon prof as early as level 9.

Armor Master: I'll have to disagree-Having to trade out Weapon Training for a defensive bonus that only jumps up at near max level (Where generally most groups will never get as high) isn't really worth it. Fortification moderate is just a +3 bonus equivalent, when comparatively what equals to an extra +2 on your weapon (plus other bonuses) would have a comparatively far higher value in terms of wealth.

Roughrider: Not a big fan of this one either-There's a wide variety of ways to reduce your Full Plate armor penalty down to -1; and Mithral barding/Muleback cords fix your mount's load issues for 5k more gold. (Special materials for armor price doesn't scale with size)

[Serafina]

I do believe AWT: Weapon Specialist should be considered for a blue rating.

Here's why: It lets you pick up any of the Melee/Ranged Weapon Fighting Styles from the Weapon Masters Handbook.
All of them require you to "choose one weapon" and refer to "the chosen weapon", and they even all have weapon focus as a prerequisite. (I may of course be wrong in my reading, as always).

Now, with most characters that use them, you'll probably want those styles as soon as you can afford them. This will be before level 9, and picking the AWT-Feat to take Weapon Specialist and get a single feat is rather redundant if you do it at level 5. Even at level 9, trading an AWT for two feats isn't necessarily great.
But at level 13, it becomes a great trade. Because now one AWT (whether through feat or not) equals three feats. You can essentially turn one of your fighter bonus feats into three feats. This is great for single-classed higher-level fighters, and IMO worth mentioning. You'd have to retrain of course if you took the style-feats earlier, but even then just getting three more feats is good even for a Fighter.

It's not one of the early picks for AWT, especially since it doesn't benefit from Gloves of Dueling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gloves-of-dueling), but it's one of the best picks at later levels.

[Florian]

Just noting down some thought while reading through the guide (so far)

Cyber-Soldier: This lacks context and that context is scattered amongst four other sources, Technology Guide, Numeria, Iron Gods and Occult Realms (especially Psitech). Cyber-Soldiers and Psitech are connected and form the basis for a very interesting "psychic gish" here.

Savage Warrior: Undervalued. The more natural attacks you can latch on your base character, the more this archetype shines. Combines well with Mutation Warrior, the Skinwalker race(s), dips well with Dragon-bloodline sorcerers and Draconic Disciples. Using all of that has a weird impact on WBL here, as all that is needed is one Amulett of Mighty Fists. If done right, you´ll end up with some sort of "Pure-Strain Genestealer wearing Full Plate" at around lvl 7, with around 8 primary natural attacks.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Combat Competence: with Gloves of Dueling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gloves-of-dueling) you get full weapon prof as early as level 9.

Armor Master: I'll have to disagree-Having to trade out Weapon Training for a defensive bonus that only jumps up at near max level (Where generally most groups will never get as high) isn't really worth it. Fortification moderate is just a +3 bonus equivalent, when comparatively what equals to an extra +2 on your weapon (plus other bonuses) would have a comparatively far higher value in terms of wealth.

Roughrider: Not a big fan of this one either-There's a wide variety of ways to reduce your Full Plate armor penalty down to -1; and Mithral barding/Muleback cords fix your mount's load issues for 5k more gold. (Special materials for armor price doesn't scale with size)

I was planning on mentioning Gloves of Dueling in the section on equipment, but it probably deserves an earlier mention in the section on AWT so that players who don't know about it learn that it exists.

I think Armor Master does a good job of filling its intended function, but I agree that trading offense for defense is a losing proposition so I've bumped the rating down to orange. Deflective Shield is helpful at all levels as its a flat boost to touch AC and one of the few that exist. Armored Defense is DR 3/- at level 5, DR 6/- when you can get Adamantine armor and DR 15/- at level 19. The ability needed another stage of progression, but DR3 in the early game is significant and DR6 in the middle game isn't bad. I agree that Fortification isn't impressive but it does save you a decent chunk of gold that can be spent on other things, which is why it isn't red.

I rate Roughrider based on what you gain for what you lose. This is a mounted build and you're basically trading away mobility abilities from your character to give equivalent or similar abilities to your mount. Now, you should only be playing a mounted character when you know you'll be able to stay mounted during a significant percentage of combat but that is relatively trivial to ensure now. The fact that you can get an animal companion with two feats by level 4 or 5 means that an archetype that used to be garbage is suddenly much more interesting to look at.



I do believe AWT: Weapon Specialist should be considered for a blue rating.

Here's why: It lets you pick up any of the Melee/Ranged Weapon Fighting Styles from the Weapon Masters Handbook.
All of them require you to "choose one weapon" and refer to "the chosen weapon", and they even all have weapon focus as a prerequisite. (I may of course be wrong in my reading, as always).

Now, with most characters that use them, you'll probably want those styles as soon as you can afford them. This will be before level 9, and picking the AWT-Feat to take Weapon Specialist and get a single feat is rather redundant if you do it at level 5. Even at level 9, trading an AWT for two feats isn't necessarily great.
But at level 13, it becomes a great trade. Because now one AWT (whether through feat or not) equals three feats. You can essentially turn one of your fighter bonus feats into three feats. This is great for single-classed higher-level fighters, and IMO worth mentioning. You'd have to retrain of course if you took the style-feats earlier, but even then just getting three more feats is good even for a Fighter.

It's not one of the early picks for AWT, especially since it doesn't benefit from Gloves of Dueling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gloves-of-dueling), but it's one of the best picks at later levels.


After looking AWT: Weapon Specialist again it does check out. With a WT bonus of 3 (level 13 or Gloves of Dueling) you can have a weapon style chain apply to all the weapons in a group. I still see this as only moderately useful though as you're still generally using the same type of weapon. Do you have some specific ideas that wind up being particularly great?



Just noting down some thought while reading through the guide (so far)

Cyber-Soldier: This lacks context and that context is scattered amongst four other sources, Technology Guide, Numeria, Iron Gods and Occult Realms (especially Psitech). Cyber-Soldiers and Psitech are connected and form the basis for a very interesting "psychic gish" here.

Savage Warrior: Undervalued. The more natural attacks you can latch on your base character, the more this archetype shines. Combines well with Mutation Warrior, the Skinwalker race(s), dips well with Dragon-bloodline sorcerers and Draconic Disciples. Using all of that has a weird impact on WBL here, as all that is needed is one Amulett of Mighty Fists. If done right, you´ll end up with some sort of "Pure-Strain Genestealer wearing Full Plate" at around lvl 7, with around 8 primary natural attacks.


I want to avoid spoiling Numeria and Iron Gods for players so I'm being a little circumspect there. The problem with the Technology Guide and Psitech is that I see a ton of GMs who are wary of adding simple firearms (on a thematic principle) to Pathfinder. I can't imagine how they'd react to cyberware, psitech and monofillament whips. I would like to see your psychic gish build however, just be aware that I'm limiting my guide to Paizo-published material only.

I suspected I might be undervaluing the Savage Warrior but there is a lot of material to cover. But I'd like to see your build. Most builds I've come up with, including Mutagen Warrior, at best will give you a Claw/Claw/Bite combination. This is powerful in the early game but starts to fall behind in damage at higher levels. I'm giving it a variable rating of red or green right now, I'd like to see a practical build if I'm going to boost it blue.

[Florian]

@NightbringerGGZ:

PM´d you the basics behind those builds, not the entire builds, as those are not necessary at this point.

[Thealtruistorc]

WOOHOO! A modernized fighter guide!

I'm really liking this so far, with a lot of interesting commentary and the potential for a lot of great builds. I just have some questions for you:

1. Will you be going into racial archetypes as well? The foehammer is definitely something to be looked at.
2. Are you going to cover content from Path of War and Path of War: Expanded? A lot of the feats from these books are very useful to the fighter, as is the archetype.
3. Could we please have sources for the archetypes? I didn't recognize some of them and want to know where they are from.

Overall, you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

[NightbringerGGZ]

WOOHOO! A modernized fighter guide!

I'm really liking this so far, with a lot of interesting commentary and the potential for a lot of great builds. I just have some questions for you:

1. Will you be going into racial archetypes as well? The foehammer is definitely something to be looked at.
2. Are you going to cover content from Path of War and Path of War: Expanded? A lot of the feats from these books are very useful to the fighter, as is the archetype.
3. Could we please have sources for the archetypes? I didn't recognize some of them and want to know where they are from.

Overall, you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

1. Eventually, but they're lower on my list as generally they're pretty specific builds. I've got a TON of material to cover so this is going to take me some time to complete.
2. Probably not, at least for now. I have a huge amount of content to go through without adding third-party material into the mix.
3. Sure, that's actually pretty simple to figure out thanks to Archives of Nethys. I'll start adding sources now.

[Peat]

Can I suggest breaking the different sections into different documents that are linked to? That thing will be a bear to load when all finished.

[Sayt]

Two Notes on Dwarves: Dwarves already have a 'Spring Loaded' weapon, the Dorn-Dergar, It's basically a spring-loaded greatclub. Also, You mention Steel soul and Hardy without Glory of Old (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/glory-of-old-dwarf-regional-trait)?! For Shame! :smalltongue:

The guide is going great, though!

[NightbringerGGZ]

Two Notes on Dwarves: Dwarves already have a 'Spring Loaded' weapon, the Dorn-Dergar, It's basically a spring-loaded greatclub. Also, You mention Steel soul and Hardy without Glory of Old (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/glory-of-old-dwarf-regional-trait)?! For Shame! :smalltongue:

The guide is going great, though!

I haven't gotten to Traits yet! :smalltongue:

I plan to expand the race sections with some of the race specific traits, the impact of race specific feats and their archetypes as well.

[ghanjrho]

First off, love the guide. Obviously WIP, but looks great so far.

If/When you cover 3rd party material, IMHO the best place to start is Rogue Genius's Talented Fighter (which kinda functions as a build-you-own-archetype), followed by the various DSP fighter archetypes; most of those (with the Myrmidon as a kinda-sorta exception) are gateways to [insert subsystem].

[NightbringerGGZ]

I have all the archetypes save for those which require a specific race added to the guide. I've also added a thanks section for everybody who's provided some thoughts so far. Onwards to Feats & Combat Stamina.

[Tuvarkz]

Drill Sergeant: Remember that you can still get up to 4 AWT options via feats.
Shielded Fighter: There's a Gorum-only Religion trait that lets you treat Heavy Shields as light weapons, which allows you to, in turn, dual wield Large Heavy Shields as one-handed weapons. Also, as per an almost year old FAQ, Spikes, Bashing and Impact do not stack with each other. Growing does work with it, however. (Or asking your party caster for a Enlarge Person cast)
And honestly, not a big fan of Two-Handed Fighter either. You end up trading all potential combat versatility (via archetypes that replace Armor Training for better stuff and AWT/Other archetypes that replace weapon training for great stuff like Martial Master or Drill Sergeant) for more full-round damage than the fighter actually needs (Baseline fighter with a nodachi/greatsword already does big enough numbers on a full attack to kill stuff efficiently).

[NightbringerGGZ]

Drill Sergeant: Remember that you can still get up to 4 AWT options via feats.
Shielded Fighter: There's a Gorum-only Religion trait that lets you treat Heavy Shields as light weapons, which allows you to, in turn, dual wield Large Heavy Shields as one-handed weapons. Also, as per an almost year old FAQ, Spikes, Bashing and Impact do not stack with each other. Growing does work with it, however. (Or asking your party caster for a Enlarge Person cast)
And honestly, not a big fan of Two-Handed Fighter either. You end up trading all potential combat versatility (via archetypes that replace Armor Training for better stuff and AWT/Other archetypes that replace weapon training for great stuff like Martial Master or Drill Sergeant) for more full-round damage than the fighter actually needs (Baseline fighter with a nodachi/greatsword already does big enough numbers on a full attack to kill stuff efficiently).

The problem with using feats for AWT options is that you get them at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20. In most campaigns you'll only have two options that you can make significant use of. Many of the better feats also key off of your weapon training bonus, so you're really trading out on the versatility of an archetype when you lose weapon training.

Do you have a link to the FAQ regarding Spikes, Bashing and Impact? Paizo's FAQ system is such a mess and so contradictory that I frankly prefer to just ignore it. I also want to verify that it is an official FAQ and not just a random forum post. I'll probably have to add a section about FAQs to this guide though.

I'm going to re-evaluate the archetypes tonight. I rushed through nearly 30 pages worth of archetypes in one weekend, so a second pass is worth a look. As for Two-Handed Fighter, I myself prefer the more versatile builds and don't mind sacrificing damage potential for utility, but many players just want to bash things hard. This archetype pretty much is perfect for those players with many of the class features gained being quite good and impossible to gain in other builds.

[Florian]

Sorry no Link, being on my mobile right now, so no big direct help.
The FAQ mentioned is about that you are "locked into" your attack modes und using your natural features. So a regular creature with no additional features mentioned (see our racial weapons discussion) has two hands to use and that´s that. So armor spikes and great sword lead to no additional results as you run out of features to wield them.

[Sayt]

I haven't gotten to Traits yet! :smalltongue:

I plan to expand the race sections with some of the race specific traits, the impact of race specific feats and their archetypes as well.

Fair enough, but you did specifically call out Steel Soul as synergising with Hardy under Dwarf, rather that feats, andI figure that'd be a good place to also call out Glory of Old.

[Tuvarkz]

The problem with using feats for AWT options is that you get them at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20. In most campaigns you'll only have two options that you can make significant use of. Many of the better feats also key off of your weapon training bonus, so you're really trading out on the versatility of an archetype when you lose weapon training.

Do you have a link to the FAQ regarding Spikes, Bashing and Impact? Paizo's FAQ system is such a mess and so contradictory that I frankly prefer to just ignore it. I also want to verify that it is an official FAQ and not just a random forum post. I'll probably have to add a section about FAQs to this guide though.

I'm going to re-evaluate the archetypes tonight. I rushed through nearly 30 pages worth of archetypes in one weekend, so a second pass is worth a look. As for Two-Handed Fighter, I myself prefer the more versatile builds and don't mind sacrificing damage potential for utility, but many players just want to bash things hard. This archetype pretty much is perfect for those players with many of the class features gained being quite good and impossible to gain in other builds.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t5u
From shield spikes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/shield-spikes): increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger
From Bashing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/magic-armor-and-shield-special-abilities/bashing): A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a bashing weapon of two size categories larger
From Impact (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/impact): An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.
They are all effective size increases, and thus don't stack.

Also, just realized: You still get to choose your weapon groups as normal with THF Fighter, meaning you can still trade them for AWT stuff. Statement retracted.

[NightbringerGGZ]

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t5u
From shield spikes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/shield-spikes): increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger
From Bashing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/magic-armor-and-shield-special-abilities/bashing): A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a bashing weapon of two size categories larger
From Impact (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/impact): An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.
They are all effective size increases, and thus don't stack.

Also, just realized: You still get to choose your weapon groups as normal with THF Fighter, meaning you can still trade them for AWT stuff. Statement retracted.

Thanks for looking it up. I'll go back and adjust the shield fighter. I'm still wobbling on the THF right now, trying to decide between a green rating and a blue one. The AWT stuff was in my estimations, but you're right in that you're still fairly limited compared to other archetypes.

Time to start on feats and combat stamina.

[Slithery D]

Just noting down some thought while reading through the guide (so far)

Cyber-Soldier: This lacks context and that context is scattered amongst four other sources, Technology Guide, Numeria, Iron Gods and Occult Realms (especially Psitech). Cyber-Soldiers and Psitech are connected and form the basis for a very interesting "psychic gish" here.

What method is there for any class but Psychic to get access to Psitech??? A Psychic and only a Psychic can learn them in place of a phrenic amplification or a feat. Other classes cannot learn them in place of a feat, even other psychic casting classes.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Update:

Combat feats, including Style feats and Teamwork feats through the letter C. I've left out a couple of racial feats that are absolute garbage and don't have an associated Combat Trick.

[upho]

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t5u
From shield spikes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/shield-spikes): increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category largerI'm pretty certain spiked shields aren't affected by this rule, despite the armor extras description, since they have their own entry in the weapons table and thus are considered their own specific weapon. Meaning the base damage die of a medium spiked shield is 1d6, not 1d4.

[Florian]

What method is there for any class but Psychic to get access to Psitech??? A Psychic and only a Psychic can learn them in place of a phrenic amplification or a feat. Other classes cannot learn them in place of a feat, even other psychic casting classes.

You have to dip. No way to avoid that. But the synergy gain here is so high, you´ll end up with a very special brand of techno-gish.

[Florian]

@NightbringerGGZ:

Just some further thoughts:

You have a weird error in the alphabetical order of archetypes. Move Viking down to where it belongs and add Varisian Free-Style Fighter to the "V" segment.

Archetypes:

There´s a thing with the "Unbreakable" archetype. You gain easy access and extra uses of Heroic Defiance and that actually meshes well with the much-maligned Combat Expertise feat and anything that allows you to stack dodge boni fast. You can have a weirdly high DR/- at mid-levels this way (I did some calculations and ended up with around 20/- at 12th without going deeper into it).
Combine that with basic TWF and VMC Cavalier - Order of the Eastern Star to actually ignore part of the Combat Expertise and TWF penalties while keeping DR/- up. Dual-wield Luck Blades for expanded fun.

Note that I don´t say it is good, but there are some hidden synergies there that can be capitalized on.

Feats:

Arcane Strike: There´a thing here with the rather unusual races, especially Kitsune and their "Magical Tail" feat chain. You can ramp up caster level without having any spells that way. Fringe case? Sure, but there´re only two feasible ways to go about the Kitsune SLA and that is Fighter or Oracle.
In addition, consider VMC Wizard - Air Elementalist there, as that also addresses one of the basics flaws (three-dimensional mobility) of the Fighter class.

Bashing Finish: Underrated. Any decent SnB-build can use that as a springboard for infinity-loop attacks. The level we talk about here, you should have some decent condition-reaction chains going so this is a huge multiplier. Scimitar, Kukri or Katana are your friends, a Maelstrom Shield is something you´ll drool on.

Befuddling Strike & Co: Again, condition-reaction chain. Use a "rider" to trigger the condition, use feat like Vicious Stomp for the free reaction, apply any "Strike" feat of your choosing. Works well if you chose either the Close or Monk weapon group and apply Abundant Tactics to it.

Combat Expertise: As noted before, has a highly synergetic relationship to Heroic Defiance and VMC Cavalier. Should be taken into account.

Critical Mastery: Again, condition-reaction chains.

Dastardly Finish: Not unimportant for Grit/Panache users. A quick kill means regaining 1 point and your basic Fighter/Rogue with either Amateur Gunslinger or Amateur Swashbuckler will love that.

Deadly Stroke: The real gain here is the CON bleed. If you play an Paizo AP, where "morale" plays into the encounter, you will potentially kill some "named" enemies that would rather break out of combat and reappear later to make further encounters more difficult. No biggie, just noteworthy.

[Tuvarkz]

Combat Expertise: Except for the few non-combat maneuver feats that require Combat Expertise (Of which most are pretty meh, Gang Up being the only exception), Dirty Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dirty-fighting-combat) is the far better alternative. Also, you need to consider that Combat Expertise penalties end up stacking with Power Attack ones, and that it hurts iteratives far more.

[Kitsuneymg]

Eldritch Guardian (Source: Familiar Folio)
This is basically spend two feats for a familiar, unfortunately it does not stack with Child of Acavna and Amaznen. The key benefit is that in addition to the familiar you also get to share all of your combat feats with the familiar. Pick the Mauler archetype for your familiar and starting at level 3 it can grow into a medium-sized creature with all of your combat feats and significant bonuses to its Strength. You’ll want to be careful, the familiar is still fairly fragile, but at need to gain an extra ally in combat. Or pick up one of the other archetypes and just enjoy the utility offered.


So, this is just an aside and involves some RAI and RAW and perhaps rules as they were intended to be written.

Due to the fact that the book says the familiar "becomes medium sized" and has no "polymorph effect", one could conclude you use the rules for "advancing monsters". Under those rules, a small creature would get +8 strength (and an additional +2 +1/2 levels beyond 3), -4 dex. That means a fox can have a 20 strength at level 3.

The author later posted that he *meant* to annotate that with a [polymorph] tag, but screwed up. That would reduce it to a +4 strength, -2 dex. Depending on what your DM sees as "correct" (there is no official errata yet and the RAW is ambiguous), you could have a 16 or 20 strength animal companion. The difference is a bit important and might change some people's mind about the critter. You can't stack polymorph effects, so no enlarge-type spells on an already medium critter for example. Plus they lose scent and such. It's an annoying omission and it's doubtful that actual errata will ever be published.

You may want to mention this in that section. a 20 strength companion that can benefit from further enlarging spells is quite a bit more powerful than a 16 and medium-forever animal.

[Elder_Basilisk]

@NightbringerGGZ:
Deadly Stroke: The real gain here is the CON bleed. If you play an Paizo AP, where "morale" plays into the encounter, you will potentially kill some "named" enemies that would rather break out of combat and reappear later to make further encounters more difficult. No biggie, just noteworthy.

I've wanted to try this with a fighter/rogue (probably something like Fighter 8/Rogue 4) combo with some intimidate shenanigans. Win initiative, move and deadly stroke a flatfooted foe. Lose initiative or if you are targeting a new foe, and you can use Blade of Mercy+enforcer or dazzling display (which is in the prereqs) to make targets deadly stroke eligible. And if you are in position to full attack, you can take your 2d6 or more sneak attack on every attack in lieu of deadly stroke.

If your party wizard or cleric makes use of fear effects, it's also worth noting that most of them leave the target shaken on a successful save. With shatter defenses (also in the pre-req chain) that makes anyone targeted vulnerable to Deadly Stroke. If you use dazzling display (see pre-req chain again), fear effect stacking can also make the synergy run the other way and effectively send foes running whether or not they make their save against the spell.

You end up spending a lot of feats but you have a good move+attack option and end up with quite a few more good tricks on the way.

[Florian]

@Elder Basilisk:

Try it on a Fighter/Slayer combo.

[NightbringerGGZ]

@Elder_Basilisk: Right. It isn't a bad feat (which I rate red), just a feat I don't generally recommend. The orange category is used for feats that either have weak effects or somewhat situational effects.

Status Update:
I took a break from feats to write up a section on Variant Multiclassing. There are a lot of good options specifically for the Fighter, so this was a fun section to write.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I've added Advanced Armor Training, Weapon Mastery Feats and Armor Mastery feats. I'll have the Shield Mastery feats up tomorrow. Combat feat progress: through the letter "I".

I'd appreciate everybody's thoughts on how Advanced Armor Training affects archetypes. Most of the archetypes trade away your armor training and the few that don't aren't very good. I basically am considering normal Fighter as its own archetype with AAT and AWT being the primary benefit that it gains.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Have you looked at the stuff in Ultimate Intrigue? There are some very interesting things in there for fighters. Improved Bravery and Quick Study being standouts.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Have you looked at the stuff in Ultimate Intrigue? There are some very interesting things in there for fighters. Improved Bravery and Quick Study being standouts.

I have, though the interesting stuff is scattered about which is a bit annoying. I'll be working those in eventually but I'm still working on Armor Master's and Weapon Master's handbooks. I'm also over halfway through evaluating the Combat Feats. I want to get those done and then split up my guide so it's bit easier to load. I'm at 108 pages right now and I suspect I'll be adding another 50-60 before all is said and done.

[Triskavanski]

One thing I've found is Fighter is one of the only High BAB classes that can technically have a high will save.

The only other one is the Palidan/Anti-Paladin that I've seen. Well until the vigilante came out and you could be an avenger one.

[Vortenger]

Are you thinking of reviewing any Path of War material for the fighter? The Myrmidon archetype in Path of War: Expanded combines elements of gunslinger, fighter, and of course initiator. It allows for other archetypes, and the concept of a Martial Master Lore Warden Myrmidon Fighter is the first time I've been truly inspired to play a fighter in over 20 years of gaming. It may be worth a look. Martial Training and the other PoW feats can add greatly to a fighter's versatility as well.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Are you thinking of reviewing any Path of War material for the fighter? The Myrmidon archetype in Path of War: Expanded combines elements of gunslinger, fighter, and of course initiator. It allows for other archetypes, and the concept of a Martial Master Lore Warden Myrmidon Fighter is the first time I've been truly inspired to play a fighter in over 20 years of gaming. It may be worth a look. Martial Training and the other PoW feats can add greatly to a fighter's versatility as well.

Probably not to be honest. I prefer to keep this guide restricted to first party only as there's a ton of first party material to cover already. Maybe when I'm all done I'll do an addendum with Path of War material, but that would be after a bit of a break.

[Vortenger]

That makes sense to me. You already put a lot of work into an awesome guide. Thanks for keeping up on it!

[Molosse]

Abundant Tactics + Barroom Brawler + Combat Stamina is just lovely.

[Vortenger]

Cartmanbeck and TristanTheViking have hit upon a rather fun playstyle you may wish to mention in the guide. The 'Iron Caster' fighter using the Item Mastery AWT via Barroom Brawler or Martial Flexibility lets the fighter gain casting-like abilities on the fly. Seems best paired with the combo mentioned just above. The guide is found here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2trk5&page=1?New-Guide-The-IRON-CASTER).

There are several new AWT's such as Warrior's Spirit not listed in the guide that are quite useful to any fighter. Any chance we could see these added?