Iot7FV vs. Archmage for a BFC Wizard, Pros and Cons?

[Goladar]

Hey everybody, I'm your typical BFC domain(conjuration) Wizard and I'm trying to decide whether to go Iot7FV or Archmage. I'm currently Half-Elf

W1 - Improved Initiative, Combat Casting
W2-
W3- Cloudy Conjuration
W4-
W5- MMSF Conj.
W6- Skill Focus Spellcraft
W6/Paragnostic Apostle1-
W6/PA1/Spellguard of Silverymoon1-
W6/PA1/SoS2- Sculpt Spell, Spell Focus Conjuration
W6/PA1/SoS3-
W6/PA1/SoS4- Quicken Spell
W6/PA1/SoS5- SF Conj.
W6/PA2/SoS5-

We're going to level 17, maybe 18. My DM has said he'll let me switch out two feats for the SF and GSF Abjuration I'll need for Iot7FV.

So I like really like the defensive capabilities of the Initiate, I think it meshes very well with my duties as a SoS. On the other hand, while I'll have to give up some spell slots, the Arcane Reach and Mastery of Shaping really help my BFC abilities. What do you guys think?

[Max Caysey]

3.5 version of archmage sucks butt compared to the 3.0 version. So unless you can have the 3.0 version, then I would say Iot7FV all day long!

[StreamOfTheSky]

You can fit both in a build, so why choose? :smallsmile:

IotSFV isn't really worth it until you get the double warding and reactive warding, and the final colors are so strong, you should always go the full 7 levels. If you can't get all those levels in, or won't until near end game and get little time to actually enjoy them...it may not be worth taking. Archmage despite what the poster above me said is still pretty amazing in 3.5. Mastery of Shaping alone is worth dipping in for, and there's always +1 CL. When you get 9th level spells, the SLA option is very much worth it, too, possibly multiple times. Who doesn't love Shapechange or Time Stop as 2/day SLAs?

[Zaq]

Unless you're doing shenanigans with SLA abuse, I think Iot7FV is stronger than Archmage. A Wizard's best defense is to never let anyone actually attack them, and Iot7FV does that in one of the strongest ways easily available.

I mean, Iot7FV is a high-op PrC (not a crazy high-op PrC like Incantatrix or Planar Shepherd, but definitely really strong) on what sounds like a high-op character, so naturally you'll want to make sure that your GM and your group are okay with you being that powerful. But if the game is balanced around that sort of thing, it's hard to go wrong with Iot7FV.

Archmage isn't bad, of course (barring confusing wording about whether or not it actually advances your CL), and as has been stated, it's often worthwhile to try to fit it in after you take Iot7FV. I don't think you'll regret taking either PrC. But I think that the sheer strength of the "NOPE!" buttons offered by Iot7FV outweighs most of what Archmage offers.

[Ellowryn]

Are there any real reasons to be taking Spellguard of Silverymoon levels? Otherwise you can just drop them and take Iot7FV at 10th level and then grab a level or 2 of Archmage to finish your game.

On which is better, your get much more mileage out of Iot7FV simply because you are going to be playing through multiple levels with the class as opposed to Archmage which you might get 1 level in by the end of the game. In terms of raw power Archmage is technically better (even moreso if you plan to abuse it) but it really isn't that much of a difference.

[Goladar]

Thanksf for the replies. I want to keep my SoS levels because they're integral to my characters backstory and I like the flavor.

I'm not really concerned with overshadowing the party(our Druid with a +3X Diplomacy already does that). Also, My DM already cleared me taking IoTSV(he's the one who suggested it).

I think I'm going to go IotSV. My DM said I can retcon my last level of Paragnostic Apostle to IotSV1,, so I'll get the reactive warding at 16 instead of 17.

Thanks again!

[nedz]

Archmage despite what the poster above me said is still pretty amazing in 3.5. Mastery of Shaping alone is worth dipping in for,

The rest is good, but Archmage costs 3 feats and 30 skillpoints to enter. How is dipping this just for Mastery of Shaping better than just spending 1 feat on Sculpt Spell ? Sculpt Spell is available some what earlier to.

[Âmesang]

I'd go with archmage, but then I'm totally biased 'cause it's my favorite prestige class. :smalltongue: Of course fitting in both is always great whenever possible, although I'm the kind of utterly insane player who enjoys familiars without having to use Obtain Familiar so I actually like sticking with straight wizard/sorcerer for a time. Madness!

…one thing I never got regarding the spell-like ability high arcana was that, if it has a material component cost, it instead costs you 5× the amount in XP.

What.

…so if you turn a spell with a 10,000 gp cost into a spell-like ability it'd cost you 50,000 XP to use? That has to be a seriously severe typo, since just about any other similar effect would require XP equal to a fifth the material cost, not five times the cost. :smalleek: