Arcane Trickster questions

[Poeta]

Hello playground.
A couple days from now, i will be playing my first 5e game.

I decided to roll a Arcane Trickster, as i love the concept and it fills two roles the party needs. The group is pretty optimized, so i want to make sure i'm up to par.

High Elf Rogue, Arcane Trickster.
Sage background.
Skills: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Arcana, History, Investigation and Perception.
Cantrips: Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, Mage Hand and ????

STR: 10 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 16 WIS: 10 CHA: 8

So, questions:

Am i missing out if i don't Multiclass?

Is my ability spread OK? I'm not sure if i should or can afford to go 8 STR to up CHA to 10.

What my fourth cantrips should be?

Besides mobility, any other feat i should consider?

Does Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade work with Sneak Attacks?

[GodslayerINC]

Am i missing out if i don't Multiclass?


For optimization maybe a little. Especially if you are looking at if purely from a DPR perspective. Nothing wrong with being 20 lv rogue. If you want to push damage to limits you need to focus on making a sneak attack every TURN no just in yours. 1 lv fighter can get you tunnel fighting style might be worth looking at.


Is my ability spread OK? I'm not sure if i should or can afford to go 8 STR to up CHA to 10.


I'd leave as is unless no one else in the part has any Cha


What my fourth cantrips should be?


Something for flavor or utility. You would be better of shooting a bow if you need to do ranged damage and there is no reason to use any other cantrips for you attacks.


Besides mobility, any other feat i should consider?


Skulker maybe depending on your role. Alertness as well. Focus on stats first though. (over Mobility as well)


Does Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade work with Sneak Attacks?


Yes

[Sir cryosin]

Hello playground.
A couple days from now, i will be playing my first 5e game.

I decided to roll a Arcane Trickster, as i love the concept and it fills two roles the party needs. The group is pretty optimized, so i want to make sure i'm up to par.

High Elf Rogue, Arcane Trickster.
Sage background.
Skills: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Arcana, History, Investigation and Perception.
Cantrips: Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, Mage Hand and ????

STR: 10 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 16 WIS: 10 CHA: 8

So, questions:

Am i missing out if i don't Multiclass?

Is my ability spread OK? I'm not sure if i should or can afford to go 8 STR to up CHA to 10.

What my fourth cantrips should be?

Besides mobility, any other feat i should consider?

Does Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade work with Sneak Attacks?

1: Minor Illusion have you read you need a illusion cantrip to.
2: lucky, defensive duelist (I might be wrong on name but it's the one we're if you are using a finesse weapon and is attacked you can add your proficiency bonus to your AC) , alert, Martial adapt ( it's the one we're you get superiority dice and a couple of maneuvers) I would get martial adapt first.
3: yes BB, GFB work with Sneak Attack.
4: no you are not missing out if you stay a single class. Only time you should mc if you have build in mined. A rouge gets 1 more ASI then any other class except for fighter.
5: as for your ability scores if your not the party's face. I'll keep the 10 in str because that determines how much loot you can carry.

[Jrandom]

You really don't need INT too much, accept for when you want to use Magical Ambush. Focus on buffing spells and Illusions to take cover behind (so you can enter Stealth).

I would recommend going Wood Elf and have a higher WIS (and maybe CON) for the saves.

[Sir cryosin]

You really don't need INT too much, accept for when you want to use Magical Ambush. Focus on buffing spells and Illusions to take cover behind (so you can enter Stealth).

I would recommend going Wood Elf and have a higher WIS (and maybe CON) for the saves.

You may like playing stupid characters but sir I do not. I wish people will stop telling new players to dump int.

[WickerNipple]

You may like playing stupid characters but sir I do not. I wish people will stop telling new players to dump int.

The OP asked for advice on optimization. What you wish for is quite irrelevant here.

[Sir cryosin]

The OP asked for advice on optimization. What you wish for is quite irrelevant here.

Yes but 3 out of 7 of his skills are int based and his DC is going to be int base.

[bid]

1: Minor Illusion have you read you need a illusion cantrip to.
2: lucky, defensive duelist (I might be wrong on name but it's the one we're if you are using a finesse weapon and is attacked you can add your proficiency bonus to your AC)
Nope, cantrips are not limited to enchantment/illusion.

And defensive duelist is bad advice since you already use your reaction for uncanny dodge.

[Sir cryosin]

Nope, cantrips are not limited to enchantment/illusion.

And defensive duelist is bad advice since you already use your reaction for uncanny dodge.

You are right about the cantrips I was a work and didn't have my books. On the other hand defensive duelist is not bad advice because it can stop a attack were uncanny dodge is only halfing the damage. Yes the feat may only work in melee but it sounds like he is gon in to melee. It may not be the best pick but it a decent one.

[Saggo]

The OP asked for advice on optimization. What you wish for is quite irrelevant here.
There are plenty of useful control and illusion spells that require INT, so depending on the spell list, an Arcane Trickster could need INT for more than just Magical Ambush. I wouldn't tell one to dump INT until a build was decided on, since both are viable.

[Jrandom]

There are plenty of useful control and illusion spells that require INT, so depending on the spell list, an Arcane Trickster could need INT for more than just Magical Ambush. I wouldn't tell one to dump INT until a build was decided on, since both are viable.

Those are rounds where you aren't using your Sneak Attack. I'd say let the full casters shine in that area and focus on what the rogue does best. Killing bad-guys.

[Saggo]

Those are rounds where you aren't using your Sneak Attack. I'd say let the full casters shine in that area and focus on what the rogue does best. Killing bad-guys.

Rogues are midline DPR and you don't take Arcane Trickster for raw killing power but for versatility and utility. There are enough scenarios or group builds where full casters can't or won't use control or illusion spells and an Arcane Trickster could, and with their features sometimes better.

[MeeposFire]

Those two cantrips work with sneak attack however do note that while it does increase your damage if you hit since you cannot two weapon fight while using those cantrips (assuming RAW of course) you will only get one shot at hitting on your turn which probably makes your overall DPR similar or even lower (depending on hit chance).


Also keep in mind haste. If you do happen to have a second weapon (which you may not but if you do) you can use your haste action to use an attack action and use your bonus action to make a second attack in case you miss. Use your normal action to save your action to attack on a trigger you think he will do (some DMs are very lenient and will allow you to attack if your opponent moves in any way for instance others may insist that you have to be very specific with the trigger such "he makes an attack" or even "he attacks you" the more lenient the easier for you). This attack on someone else turn will give you another sneak attack which is really nice for you. This is a good gambit for you as you only get one attack for using an attack action anyway so unlike a fighter you don't lose attacks just by using the haste attack.

ANother option if to get 7 or 8 levels of fighter for war magic. That ability will allow you to use booming blade and get a second attack which means your damage will be excellent and your chances of pulling off a sneak attack nearly every round are high. I normally suggest swashbuckler (for easier sneak attack and the ability to move away from enemies) but arcane trickster has its own benefits and you can take the mobile feat to let you move away after hitting. Your standard tactic is to run up smack an enemy with a booming blade sneak attack, followed by a second melee attack (with sneak attack if the first missed), and then you move away if the enemy is a melee guy or stay close if it is a ranged enemy. A melee enemy will may have to move thus setting off your booming blade bonus damage. A ranged enemy will have to choose between bonus damage and opportunity attack, or bonus damage and no attacks (disengage), or be less effective by staying in melee. Either way is a win for you though this is much easier to pull off as a swashbuckler (he does not need to attack someone near an ally or with advantage and so has the easiest time creating these situations).



As for cantrips personally I don't think you really need both greenflame and booming blade right away. One of them is probably fine for most situations. I personally think utility cantrips are more helpful especially if you are filling multiple roles. I would give up one of the weapon cantrips and pick up minor illusion and one other cantrip of choice (personal favorite is prestidigitation as it can do so much random stuff). I would pick up the other weapon cantrip later after you ahve seen if it will be needed for your play style.

[Nibenay]

Am i missing out if i don't Multiclass?

Is my ability spread OK? I'm not sure if i should or can afford to go 8 STR to up CHA to 10.


I think a few levels of battlemaster could be useful if I made a AT again. Having riposte means you can sneak attack two times in a row with that and your regular attack for 4 turns. Also gives you a bit healing and action surge.

Personally I find the higher level AT powers not that great, spells might be nice though.

Do you need the STR at all? I find it to be quite the dump stat for a dex fighter.

[Poeta]

I think a few levels of battlemaster could be useful if I made a AT again. Having riposte means you can sneak attack two times in a row with that and your regular attack for 4 turns. Also gives you a bit healing and action surge.

Personally I find the higher level AT powers not that great, spells might be nice though.

Do you need the STR at all? I find it to be quite the dump stat for a dex fighter.

Thanks everyone for all the replys.
Considering everything, my gameplan is to:

Keep my ability scores as they are, even INT.
I could drop it and limit myself to buffs and such but, that means ignoring some class features and having less options.

Juggle between One Handing Rapier + Cunning Action, TWF with Throwing Daggers or Longbow depending on the situation.

Consider multiclassing to something that helps me SA as often as possible, at some point.

Rush DEX to 20 > Grab a Feat or two > Get INT to 20.

If i follow this plan, i get to have a good mid level DPR and a bunch of utility outside of combat.

[bid]

Consider multiclassing to something that helps me SA as often as possible, at some point.
Your best bet is bladesinger 6 for extra attack. That would leverage your high Int.

[MeeposFire]

Essentially to get the most chances at sneak attack you have to either go fighter 7 to get war magic or not use the cantrip and get multiple attacks and/or two weapon fighting.

You would also want to have the ability to get more attacks not on your turn to get more sneak attacks. YOu can do this either by getting more opportunity attacks (the new fighting style in UA can help with this but it takes your bonus action and thus potentially your extra attempts on your turn) with this you can use the weapon cantrips (at least booming blade anyway), my haste suggestion will still work and works with two weapon fighting, and you can use a battlemaster fighter friend if you have one to command you to attack (though that only works a few times a short rest).

[unwise]

I can't help but feel that you are missing out on many of the most powerful aspects of an Arcane Trickster by putting your Cha so low. I tend to try and have 12 or 14 in charisma for that class. IMC they have their own spell list, so YMMV. The ability to disguise yourself, cast spells subtly while keeping people distracted, charm folks, do ghost sounds and illusions etc all just lend themselves to needing some deception skills to back them up. If you do an illusion, then can't follow it up with a believable lie, it is far less useful. Same with a disguise spell. Turning yourself into the queen, then walking like a slob, stammering and failing to act like her won't fool anybody for long. Dropping Int and/or Con a bit does hurt, no denying it, but certainly for my play style the charisma more than payed for itself.

[Sir cryosin]

I can't help but feel that you are missing out on many of the most powerful aspects of an Arcane Trickster by putting your Cha so low. I tend to try and have 12 or 14 in charisma for that class. IMC they have their own spell list, so YMMV. The ability to disguise yourself, cast spells subtly while keeping people distracted, charm folks, do ghost sounds and illusions etc all just lend themselves to needing some deception skills to back them up. If you do an illusion, then can't follow it up with a believable lie, it is far less useful. Same with a disguise spell. Turning yourself into the queen, then walking like a slob, stammering and failing to act like her won't fool anybody for long. Dropping Int and/or Con a bit does hurt, no denying it, but certainly for my play style the charisma more than payed for itself.

Rouges get expertise in a couple of skills he can all ways boost his deception skill like that.

[CaptAl]

Essentially to get the most chances at sneak attack you have to either go fighter 7 to get war magic or not use the cantrip and get multiple attacks and/or two weapon fighting.

You would also want to have the ability to get more attacks not on your turn to get more sneak attacks. YOu can do this either by getting more opportunity attacks (the new fighting style in UA can help with this but it takes your bonus action and thus potentially your extra attempts on your turn) with this you can use the weapon cantrips (at least booming blade anyway), my haste suggestion will still work and works with two weapon fighting, and you can use a battlemaster fighter friend if you have one to command you to attack (though that only works a few times a short rest).

The sentinel feat could work for getting AoO sneak attacks as well. Requires you to be close to get the attack, so not really good for an archer, but for a melee build could significantly increase DPR without DM fiat on the ready action attack or eating your ability to use uncanny dodge in an emergency.

[Nibenay]

Your best bet is bladesinger 6 for extra attack. That would leverage your high Int.

I just remade my lvl 7 AT into a 4AT/3BS. My feeling was that the pure damage went down, but general versatility up (and survivability due to shield and such). I expect getting fireball will be quite useful... Alas I won't be playing this char for a while, so still waiting to see how that'll go. I might eventually level back up the AT to around 8 to get some more sneak attack and abilities (especially evasion!)