What is the correct 3.5 version of Knock- Down?

[Max Caysey]

Yes... The question is simple, but I have been unable to find definite answers to this epic question.

On the one hand, the 3.0 version (with erretta) should be the right one, because no 3.5 update exists. On the other, Deities and Demigods was printed after, and does not contain the erreta, therefore this must be the correct version. On the last hand, the SRD database has it under general feats of deieties, without the erreta, thus, since the SRD is 3.5, through and through, this is the correct version.

On another note. Mundanes are weak, and any melee character need all the help it can get, and one extra attack when someone is tripped is not tipping the scale compared to, timestop, celerity, gate and shapechange.. Therefore, disregard this ridiculous and wrong, out of place downgrade of a very specific and situational feat.

I would very much like to hear, what you guys have to say.

[Âmesang]

I'm of the mind that the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) trumps all, if for no other reason than due to simple convenience.

After all, if Konami can constantly change their Yu-Gi-Oh! limited/ban list, I'm sure Wizards can decide to recall an errata for whatever reason.

[Jormengand]

3.5 versions trump 3.0 versions. Knock-down is [General], not [Divine], even though it appears in DaD, so there's no reason it should be considered special.

[Pluto!]

thus, since the SRD is 3.5, through and through,
This isn't a thing.

By the book answer: Most recent printing is supposed to take priority, so if the D&D version was printed after the errata, it would be the official version.

My take on the most reasonable ruling: The errata both clarified Knockback and reined it back in line with the power level of other feats. I would apply the errata and expect other DMs to do the same.

[nedz]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16617440&postcount=761) is a useful resource - which says "Deities and Demigods".

What was in the Errata BTW - if it can be posted ?

[Pluto!]

From the Sword and Fist errata:

Insert to end of Benefit:
Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave feats.
Insert may into "you may make a trip attack as a free action."
After "whenever you deal 10 or more damage to your opponent in melee" insert: with a single attack.

Edit:
Wait. Deities and Demigods was published 8 months before the S&F errata. Then no question - the errata applies.

[Arcanist]

thus, since the SRD is 3.5, through and through, this is the correct version.

No the SRD is not 3.5. Granted, most of the material IS 3.5, but not all of it. Case and point: the Perfect Wight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/perfectWight.htm).

[zergling.exe]

No the SRD is not 3.5. Granted, most of the material IS 3.5, but not all of it. Case and point: the Perfect Wight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/perfectWight.htm).

Almost the entirety of epic is 3.0, what's different about 1 PrC?

[Arcanist]

Almost the entirety of epic is 3.0, what's different about 1 PrC?

It's not just one prestige class? The SRD also compiled the skill "Intuit Direction" into the Survival skill and keeps the Scry skill by itself, even though the 3.5 conversion removed Scry as a skill. The point was to show that the entire SRD isn't 100% 3.5. There isn't really more to it than that.

[Darrin]

This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=11917825&postcount=8) covers the publication history. In short, the SRD Divine Section is the latest version of the feat, and it was published by WotC as part of the 3.5 product line.

[Max Caysey]

Thank you for all your replies.

If I may, I was curious to which version you would use in your game? Some of you have answered, but I'm still curious as to the rest of you! :smallsmile:

[Troacctid]

The SRD doesn't include errata anyway, so you'd have to add it in regardless of which version you use.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The SRD doesn't includes errata anyway, so you'd have to add it in regardless of which version you use. you should use what's included in the SRD.Fixed that for you.

[Troacctid]

Fixed that for you.

Yeah, no, you can check the SRD documents (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) for yourself. They don't incorporate errata.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yeah, no, you can check the SRD documents (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) for yourself. They don't incorporate errata.This one, however, does. (http://www.d20srd.org/)

[zergling.exe]

This one, however, does. (http://www.d20srd.org/)

That is not the SRD, merely a compilation of most (if not all) OGC content claiming to be the SRD.

[Troacctid]

This one, however, does. (http://www.d20srd.org/)
That's a fan-made reference, not an official source. The official d20 SRD is completely separate from errata documents.

[Darrin]

If I may, I was curious to which version you would use in your game?

I use it without the errata, mostly under the MSHNT principle. (Melee Should Have Nice Things). I have yet to see a game broken because a meatbag got an extra attack.

[ComaVision]

I use it without the errata, mostly under the MSHNT principle. (Melee Should Have Nice Things). I have yet to see a game broken because a meatbag got an extra attack.

This. I actively ignore the errata.

[OldTrees1]

My take on the most reasonable ruling: The errata both clarified Knock-down and reined it back in line with the power level of other feats. I would apply the errata and expect other DMs to do the same.

My take on the most reasonable ruling: Strangely the errata version of Knock-down is significantly weaker of a feat than Improved Trip (once accounting for the character already having to have Improved Trip). So I default to the D&D/SRD version since it is more in line with the power level of other feats on the same character. I would not apply the errata and expect other DMs to do the same.