Why Miko can't come back via rez. At least not via Tsukiko

[akumadaimyo]

Because you can't be resurected unless you WANT to come back. You think she wants to be raised by some annoying AND evil goth chick necromancer? I wouldn't think so.

She probably could be brought back via turning into undead though. Unless of course her spirit is protected. I'd think a Paladin who died and was still a paladin couldn't be turned undead. I belive they can but it would sort of be neat if they couldn't, maybe as a feat or at least a reward if they got very high level or maybe just a RP related reward for being a very good paladin. Loyal, heroic, and good but also humble.

[goldgecko4]

No, Miko wasn't going to be resurrected, she was going to be ANIMATED via the Create Undead spell. And Tsukiko couldn't do it because a) the body of the victim needs to be in tact and b) I doubt Tsukiko's caster level is high enough to Animate something that has as many HD as Miko does (did.)

[akumadaimyo]

But people who weren't paying attention DID talk about her being rezzed. Which isn't going to happen via Tsukiko. Plus I belive you would need to rez her right away AND make sure you had both her upper and lower half. If you were missing a pretty big and important part of Miko she wouldn't come back unless you used a more powerful spell to bring her back.

[goldgecko4]

Right. And just FYI, there is a way that Miko's soul could be protected from being ressurected or animated, the 9th level Soul Bind spell. It's incredibly powerful and limited in it's scope, but that's about the only way it can be done. That, or a Magic Jar. But Magic Jar is such a needlessly complicated affair that it wouldn't be worth it.

[Alysar]

Miko won't be ressurected simply because there is no one in the world right now who wants to ressurect her. No one is going to spend 5000 gp worth of diamonds to bring back a regicidal psychopath with a stick up her ass (she might not have the stick up her ass any more, but no one else knows that).

I'm not saying that we've seen the last of Miko, I don't believe that we have. I'm just saying no one is going to cast ressurect for her.

[Lord_Butters_I]

Here's something: The Miko almost-animate was to poke fun at the miko fanboys who wanted her back when Rich so clearly eliminated her from the story. Good ridence I say, she was becoming extraordinarily annoying.

[theKOT]

Here's something: The Miko almost-animate was to poke fun at the miko fanboys who wanted her back when Rich so clearly eliminated her from the story. Good ridence I say, she was becoming extraordinarily annoying.

Or maybe it was a poke-fun at the forumites who had suggested that tsukiko would make Miko into a death knight?

[teratorn]

Here's something: The Miko almost-animate was to poke fun at the miko fanboys who wanted her back...

It's more the other way around. The naysayers were the ones who really obsessed about her, and wanted her back as some sort of evil undead.

Miko "fanboys" are happy with the way she died, with Soon himself by her side offering comfort. She deserves to spend some time with Windstryker, even if she'll be coming back.

[Shatteredtower]

Because you can't be resurected unless you WANT to come back. You think she wants to be raised by some annoying AND evil goth chick necromancer? I wouldn't think so.Well...

Let me start by saying that you've offered a very strong, very sensible argument.

There's only one problem with this: you applied it to Miko. :smallwink:

If Tsukiko had intended to restore Miko to life (she didn't), I'm not 100% certain that she wouldn't take the chance. I can see reasons why she most certainly should not take it, and even a few reasons she might not take it. ("Accept such help from one so thoroughly evil? I'd sooner d-- sooner stay dead!")

On the other hand, I can't say for certain that she wouldn't take the chance to once again right wrongs and triumph over evil, even if it was evil that gave her that chance. She might just see it as capitalizing on Tsukiko's final (in theory) mistake.


And Tsukiko couldn't do it because a) the body of the victim needs to be in tact...The 3rd level cleric spell make whole will repair an object completely. It doesn't affect creatures, but dead bodies aren't creatures. Their corpses are objects.


b) I doubt Tsukiko's caster level is high enough to Animate something that has as many HD as Miko does (did.)Funny thing about that: create dead and create greater undead are only capped by two things: a) the type of undead you're allowed to create, and b) how much you're willing (or able) to spend creating it.

For Tsukiko to even consider creating something other than another zombie or skeleton (when Miko's levels would be entirely irrelevant; she'd come back as a 1 HD skeleton or 2 HD zombie), she'd have to be able to cast spells as an 11th level cleric or wizard, meaning she's at least 14th level (cleric 3/wizard 3/mystic theurge 8, for example). That would only allow her to create ghouls.

The thing is that the rules for the spell do not limit her to creating only a 2 HD ghoul. If she's willing to spend an extra 50 gp, she can create the 3 HD variety of ghoul, which is as far as they'll advance.

It's when we hit a caster level of 15th (requiring at least an 18th level Tsukiko) that things could get strange, because the rules for mummy creation would let her create a 24 HD monstrosity. The mummy lord appears to be a separate creature, much like the ghast is separate from the ghoul, though this does make me wonder what the rite is that lets one be created. Still, regardless of which advanced monstrosity she could create, it would never have more than twice as many HD as her caster levels, which is pretty consistent with the limitation laid out for animate dead.

Assuming Tsukiko can create non-standard undead, this 2 HD per caster level limit would not prevent her from animating Miko as a creature with HD equal to the class levels she had in life, since she wasn't twice Tsukiko's level if the latter can cast 6th level spells.

Many DMs are fairly strict about limiting you to the basic monster, however. Then again, they wouldn't allow you to make a death knight, eye of fear and flame, and hueceva with create undead either.

This doen't prove anything one way or another, of course. Tsukiko might just have been engaging in wishful thinking. :smallwink:

[Rincewind]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c50/tourmalinerocks/potter_o_rly_owl.jpg

[Cade Shadow]

But people who weren't paying attention DID talk about her being rezzed. Which isn't going to happen via Tsukiko. Plus I believe you would need to rez her right away AND make sure you had both her upper and lower half. If you were missing a pretty big and important part of Miko she wouldn't come back unless you used a more powerful spell to bring her back.

Except that I think the rules said that you don't know who is trying to ressurect you, where, when, why, just that someone is calling you.

[lord_khaine]

actualty the rules says both who and what god they worship

[xyzchyx]

Plus I belive you would need to rez her right away AND make sure you had both her upper and lower half. No and no. The time limit on resurrection is measured in years after the death of the person (decades, actually). Secondly, resurrection completely restores health and vitality to the body, the spell description specifying that the condition of the body is not a factor for the spell's success.

Oh, and as an aside:

Tsukiko probably wouldn't be resurrecting Miko or anyone else, for that matter anyways. She would be creating undead. There's a HUGE difference. Permission of the being is not required to animate their corpse as the force that animates them is the magic used to create the undead, not the spirit of the creature's former inhabitant.

Oh, and in old editions, it was understood that a person _could_ refuse to be raised by someone he or she didn't want to be raised by. I don't recall reading anything on the current edition that would suggest that's no longer the case. Don't confuse Resurrection with Gate.

[Kreistor]

Revivification against One’s Will: A soul cannot be returned to life if it does not wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis.

They didn't put it in the spell description. They put it as a general overall rule concerning the very nature of bringing back the dead.