[High Point Buy] Melee Cleric Build + DMM Persist Question

[LKeeper]

Hi everyone. I'm soon going to be playing in a very high point buy 3.5 campaign, DM is giving us an automatic 18 in one stat AND 40 points to spend on our other 5 stats on top of that. So for example, a starting block like 18/10/16/10/18/16 would be valid. We start at Level 5 and will probably play until Level 12. Deity must be one valid for Greyhawk setting. I will be some sort of Good alignment, Bone Knight is out of the question.

Allowed books: PHB1,2, DMG, MM1,2,3, Planar Handbook, Races of Stone, Races of Destiny, Races of the Wild, Spell Compendium, Draconomicon, Complete Warrior, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Champion, Book of Exalted Deeds, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer

You'll notice that Unearthed Arcana is absent along with Libris Mortis and Magic Item Compendium.

I decided to volunteer for Cleric duty, since it seems like Clerics could get a lot of use out of such a huge point spend. I'd like to be a bruiser of a melee Cleric with as minimal sacrifice to casting ability as I can get away with, which led me to do some research about DMM Persist. It looks great, BUT:

- The whole 'stacking Turn/Rebuke/Destroy Undead' thing I saw in some builds is not going to fly with my DM, nor would I even try to get it to fly. Assume one united pool of Turn to draw from with each take of Extra Turning only giving 4 to charge it, not 12.
- Nightstick is in Libris Mortis, Reliquary Symbol is in Magic Item Compendium, Cloistered Cleric and flaws are in UA, so I do not have access to them.

Given the above restrictions, can I still make DMM Persist work or is it not worth trying? In my head, I can get 8 turns (3 + 3 Cha + 2 Eagle's Splendor) to persist just 1 spell (two if I use an extend rod), unless I'm missing something. Persisting Divine Power (at Lv.7) still sounds really tasty, but for 3 feats (and I'd need a regular, not lesser extend rod to run 2, expensive)? Not sure what to think.

Ordained Champion PrC looks interesting as an alternative, but I'm a bit worried about losing spellcaster levels and the ability to spontaneously channel heals for the sessions where I'm the only healer. We do use Cure Light Wounds rods and such for out of combat healing, and I'm aware of the mantra that damage should be prevented, not healed in the middle of battle generally, but it's still a bit of a worry.

I guess my main question is, given the above restrictions should I give up on DMM Persist or is it still a good route to take? If it's no good, any other pointers on how to achieve my stated goal (being a melee beast of a cleric while using the high point-buy to still be an awesome party cleric) would be most appreciated.

[Troacctid]

You have Spell Compendium, so your main in-combat healing spell should be Close Wounds, which you can't cast spontaneously anyway. Also, something something Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor.

[LKeeper]

You have Spell Compendium, so your main in-combat healing spell should be Close Wounds, which you can't cast spontaneously anyway. Also, something something Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor.

Thanks for reminding me about Close Wounds, I'll be sure to bring plenty of those.

I'm hoping for someone to give an assessment of whether DMM Persist is viable given my restraints or not, though. It sounds like I'd only be able to persist two Lv.3 or lower spells (w/extend rod) or one Lv.4+ spell, for 3 feats (Extend, Persist, DMM:Persist).

[Crake]

While you may only be able to persist a single spell at 1st level, you can continue to pick up more and more extra turning feats to increase the number of times you can persist per day. With only 2 copies of the feat you will have 16 turns per day, which is 2 spells persisted with 2 turns left over for fun. Even just one or two spells persisted can be huge. As someone mentioned, persisted mass lesser vigor completely covers your out of combat healing for the day, add in persisted divine power when the time comes, and you really don't need much else.

[Troacctid]

You could also be an Illumian and get two DMMs per day at a reduced cost as a racial ability.

[LKeeper]

While you may only be able to persist a single spell at 1st level, you can continue to pick up more and more extra turning feats to increase the number of times you can persist per day. With only 2 copies of the feat you will have 16 turns per day, which is 2 spells persisted with 2 turns left over for fun. Even just one or two spells persisted can be huge. As someone mentioned, persisted mass lesser vigor completely covers your out of combat healing for the day, add in persisted divine power when the time comes, and you really don't need much else.

I suppose you're right. Any suggestions on Greyhawk-setting deities good for this build? No-deity cleric are a no-go (so no Undeath + Planning!). Dol'Dorn seems nice (Planning for free Extend, War for weapon proficiency and focus with an okay weapon) but he's Eberron...

Seems like my feat progression should be Extend (I hope to get this through deity), Persist(1st), DMM:Persist(1st, human bonus), Power Attack(3rd), Extra Turning(6th), Extra Turning(9th)...actually it's awfully tempting to skip on Power Attack altogether so that I can get 16 turns at Lv.6...


You could also be an Illumian and get two DMMs per day at a reduced cost as a racial ability.

Interesting, I'll give that race a look.

Thanks for the advice so far. I assume both of you don't think much of Ordained Champion even with these restrictions?

[Troacctid]

Ordained Champion is one of my personal favorite cleric prestige classes, but I like it best in games where DMM Persist is off the table, because a lot of what it does is provide an alternative to it—namely quickening your Divine Power so you don't have to persist it, and giving you new uses for turning/rebuking. That said, when DMM is allowed, quickened Divine Power just means you can persist a different spell in its place, and quickened Spiritual Weapon, Flame Strike, and Blade Barrier still do excellent work, so it's still a perfectly reasonable option.

[Malak'ai]

Check out Fist of Raziel from BoED. I'm AFB right now so I can't give you the exact prerequisites and stuff, but off the top of my head it's full BAB, 9/10 casting and gives a few other things that a melee Cleric might like.

[LKeeper]

Thanks for the advice so far, everyone.

Given that I'm limited to Good aligned Greyhawk deities, it doesn't seem like I can grab Planning or Undeath (can't find any deity valid in Greyhawk setting that is Good and has either of these!) so I'd still need to blow precious feats on Extend Spell/Extra Turning unless I'm mistaken. Still hoping for a good deity suggestion. Also, good PrCs to aim for that keep full or near-full spellcasting and exist in the books I mentioned. Radiant Servant of Pelor seems neat, but he can't take Planning or Undeath either!

We're actually only starting at Lv.4, I found out, so only starting with 2nd-level spells. I got my DM's okay to use an extend rod to 48-hour extend, so I can keep up two spells with my initial 8 charges. I'm thinking Cloud of Knives for one of the spells, not sure about the second one - maybe Interfaith Blessing depending on the deity.

[LKeeper]

I've been looking for a Greyhawk-compatible Good deity with Strategy or Undeath domains and can't seem to find any...admittedly I'm just using Wikipedia as my source of Greyhawk choices though, might not be accurate. Am I gonna be stuck using feats to get Extra Turning? Cramps my plans a bit, assuming Human I'd have to go Extend (1st), Persist (human), DMM:Persist(3rd) and then make a painful choice between Power Attack at 6th or Extra Turning which would eventually pay off at Lv.9 when I take it a second time and get 16 turn undeads to use...if I could just get Planning domain somehow I would be so much further ahead.