Detect Thoughts - overlap with Comprehend Languages?

[Segev]

It obviousy doesn't replace it, but can you achieve similar results, at least when listening to a single speaker? Detect thoughts states that it doesn't work on creatures who do not understand any language, but never mentions language again in its text. It discusses surface thoughts being what is most on the target's mind; certainly what they're saying right now is probably at the surface of their thoughts. If they are speaking in a language you do not understand, can you use detect thoughts to discern the meaning from what their surface thoughts are? (Even if they don't share a language with you at all.)

[Ninja_Prawn]

I wouldn't allow that. I can see the logic, but I feel Detect Thoughts is more about basic emotions and impressions of what a person is thinking. I wouldn't say it gave the caster access to the mechanical thoughts of "speech centre: please say this word. Then this word..."

It'd be more like "this person is hoping you all don't figure out that every word they're saying is a lie."

[Millstone85]

As a counterpoint to the above, the emotional state of the target is something the spell reveals when you probe deeper.

I would make a character's inner voice the main aspect of their surface thoughts.

[Segev]

I wouldn't allow that. I can see the logic, but I feel Detect Thoughts is more about basic emotions and impressions of what a person is thinking. I wouldn't say it gave the caster access to the mechanical thoughts of "speech centre: please say this word. Then this word..."

It'd be more like "this person is hoping you all don't figure out that every word they're saying is a lie."

While I won't say that the spell definitely would let you understand what they're saying, I think that is below the amount of information stated in "surface thoughts." Besides, it's "detect thoughts," not "detect emotions." By which I mean, you get what they're thinking about.

But yeah, the notion of the spell has ALWAYS been annoyingly vague to me in every edition I've seen it, with anything I consider "worth using" it for likely being well beyond the power it allows, and anything it says it does being less information than I get from shaking a magic 8 ball.

In 5e, specifically, it gives a bit more detail on what constitutes a "surface thought," but it's still rather vague.

I do think it's more than "simple impressions." "He hopes you don't realize every word he's saying is a lie" is valid, certainly. But would "he's arresting you for the crime of crossing the street on a high holy day without being escorted by a chicken" get across?

Could two people, using detect thoughts on each other, have an effective conversation even without sharing a language by simply reading each other's surface thoughts and allowing their own surface thoughts to shift in response to them?

"He's hungry," "I think of a good tavern nearby, and extend invitation to join me," "He accepts gratefully, but is worried that he might not have enough to pay," "I think about how it's not too expensive, and that I can cover him if he'll owe me a favor."

[Millstone85]

When confronted with this sort of vagueness, is it okay to bring another aspect of the character into your argument?

I am playing a warlock with the Awakened Mind feature. This allows me to speak into another character's head and they will understand my telepathic utterances even if we do not share a language. However, this feature does not allow the other character to answer in the same way.

I can also cast the Detect Thoughts spell. When I do, wouldn't it make sense for the spell to combine with Awakened Mind and create two-way telepathic communication?

Yes, I ultimately have to ask my DM. I just want to know other people's opinions before I do.

[Flashy]

For extra vagueness try to puzzle out what exactly you get out of the Knowledge Cleric's Read Mind relative to Detect Thoughts.

[Segev]

I thought the Awakened Mind feature of the Warlock already enabled two-way communication, by itself.

[Millstone85]

For extra vagueness try to puzzle out what exactly you get out of the Knowledge Cleric's Read Mind relative to Detect Thoughts.Lovely :smallannoyed:. The cleric domain's "surface thoughts" look like what the spell gives you for going deeper.


I thought the Awakened Mind feature of the Warlock already enabled two-way communication, by itself.
Does the warlock’s Awakened Mind feature allow two-way telepathic communication?
The feature is intended to provide one-way communication. The warlock can use the feature to speak telepathically to a creature, but the feature doesn’t give that creature the ability to telepathically reply. In contrast, the telepathy ability that some monsters have (MM, 9) does make two-way communication possible.That won't bother me, if I can get Detect Thoughts to complete the communication.

[Segev]

Yeesh. That makes that ability far, far less useful than I thought it was. I suppose it is nicely symmetrical with comprehend languages, and maybe detect thoughts, if the latter does let you pick up deliberately-communicated thoughts/concepts.